Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence

[Mr F.]

While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

The point to " inform " the people has long since left the media now its about making killers famous REAL killers mind you not fictional ones. If " informing " now a days means constantly covering a story to the point of harassing the families of murder victims then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means that your going to turn everything you don't approve of into a WITCH HUNT because something " newsworthy " happened then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means telling people that the guns , video games , or whatever is to blame then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means covering only one story of lives being lost all week long then yes they are " informing ". The line between " informing " and glorifying is thin. However on a almost daily basis is being stomped on , spit on by the very people to whom are SUPPOSED to uphold it. My way of confirming this is the FACT in less then ten minutes they managed to politicize it. They politicized it by pointing a finger at everyone but the killer. I can't take the view point of a " news " company seriously when they cover a school shooting and follow it by saying. " This is responsible for the mass killing is ( enter preference ) instead of the shooter ". That person who shot up the school was to blame for the incident yet they will instead blame whatever scapegoat they can find. While people will call it " informing " when instead it simply a format for demonizing that to which had no part in any wrong doing. Tell me did a video game pull the trigger or a PERSON. Did the gun pull its own trigger or did that require a PERSON. Did the entire society kill those kids or did one PERSON do it. All I blame the media for is turning the killer into a star of sorts. People that do horrible things should be forgotten in time while the teachers that used their own bodies to shield the children from a rain of bullets should be remember for their bravery. Yet most people can only remember the name and face of the shooter. Why ? Simple the " news " wanted to " inform " people. ( This is the one and only response I will do. )

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

You cannot just treat every incident as a stand alone incident. Now, as for anything else? You have just gone off on a rather interesting rant about how you hate the news media. With incredibly poor formatting that makes it rather difficult to read. But you do not really come across as a rational individual, so I guess that helps.

With regards to how the media reports things? It depends on the news outlet to be honest. Al Jazeera reports in a different way from the BBC, Both report in a different way to Faux News. Some are more reputable then others.

If a society gets plagued by mass shootings (Seriously, the states faces them a lot more then anyone else) then perhaps you should look to society and further than the individual.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

As a gamer who enjoys violent games (and is also convinced that violent games saved me from my rage and frustration in high school), and who REALLY enjoys paintball...

I could not watch it.

I had to pause the video when he pointed the gun and hesitate for a good 3 minutes before deciding that I did not want to expose myself to that.

Excellent video, Jim. Brilliantly made point. Thank the mods for you.

 

[The Material Sheep]

I feel bad that I wasn't super shocked in the immediate. However it left a little sickening feeling in my stomach as time went on. Hopefully I am not a sociopath, and aspergers syndrome is the only anti social disorder I have.

 

[Airon]

I agree with the points you brought up Jim.

This is the fifth real death I've seen in news footage, and I've seen some holocaust films that seem to be the only staged non-real media able to portray the way people died in those reports. Schindlers list has some of those for example.

First, the Kennedy assasination. The famous footage of an execution of a Vietcong prisoner. A piece of footage of a crazy person getting gunned down by a dozen cops in front of a one-story vanilla-suburb house. A piece of AP footage from Egypts revolution in 2011, where someone is dropped by assault rifle fire in the middle of a highway. And now this guy blowing up his brains. It's the only bit I saw any blood in. This was especially surprising of the man the cops shot in front of a house.

What they all have in common is that these people(all men btw) just drop as if someone flipped a light switch. Good night, it's over, you're literally dead fucking meat.

And no game has ever done that, though in some ways Spec Ops The Line came closest IMHO and that deserves to be experienced since it handles the horrors of the story so well.

I also saw a dead guy, covered up by the cops just once, outside my 3rd story window here in Berlin. A few hours earlier as I was half asleep in the early morning something had flown past my window. It turns out that was the guy commiting suicide by jumping through his window opposite my building. I don't think I've ever felt queasier than that day when I looked at that guys foot poking out from under the cover the cops had draped over him.

In no way, ever, did a game ever make me feel that way.

I've also fired blanks with a gun. We're big on fireworks here at New Years Eve. Soldiers and police officers train all the time with their weapons to get used to the sheer power and loudness of shots fired with a real, heavy gun. I absolutely despise guns, I'm fascinated by them and I fear them. The brutality of real guns just cannot be portrayed in games. You would require a cinema sound reproduction system and the proper sound to get just a little close. I'm a sound engineer and know how loud real guns actually are. 20 dB of gain represents a tenfold increase in level. 6 dB doubles the level, 20 dB increases it tenfold. A jet engine, which many of us know is 120-140 dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level). A rock concert 100-110 dB SPL. A very loud conversation 85-95 dB SPL. Quiet room ambiancee where you can hear your breathing ~30 dB SPL. A 9mm handgun shot at 1 meter distance on the side is 164 dB SPL. That just 16 dB shy of what a space shuttle take off used to be (~180 dB SPL at 100 meters distance). So a handgun shot is a short-duration event that's around 1000 times louder(60dB) than a rock concert.

That's the violence in terms of sound I'm talking about, not that phewphew stuff in games, where people shouldn't be hurt or subjected to nasty surprises, unless it serves the game.

I honestly don't know just how crazy I'd have to be to fire a gun at another human being. So fucking crazy, I can't imagine it. And I, personally, don't want to imagine it.

Games just haven't got a snowball-in-hell chance of doing that. It seems utterly ridiculous, like drinking coffee might make you go crazy.

I do hope that scientists do find out a little more about what leads to people go that crazy. We could use some knowledge in that direction to combat the fear-crazy we now see.

 

[momijirabbit]

Ew, Ew, EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Should have skipped it.

 

[Beautiful End]

Well, I play Left 4 Dead religiously every night. Can't get more gory than that. And yet, I didn't have the balls to watch that part.

That's not to say that because I play L4D I should be a mindless, heartless robot. In fact, I'll admit I'm a pussy. As cool as the thought of traversing the world, sword in hand, slaying all sorts of evil and riding a white horse while being called the hero of Ferelden would be, I know that if given the chance (In some sort of alternate universe?), I'd probably still pussy out. I shy away from real violence. As a matter of fact, I think I can be called a pacifist. And I think it's the same with the majority of gamers. It's not because most of us are weak nerds who just wanna go home and play games. It's because we're normal; because we're just enjoying a hobby. I hate to bring this up but...I don't see movie or book enthusiasts getting as much crap as we gamers do.

People who commit acts of violence are already sick in the head. Then don't need to play videogames to push them over the edge. Hell, they could have read a book and experience the same thing. Those who say videogames have made them violent use them as a scapegoat cause it's an easy cop out. "Oh...uh, I killed people. Because videogames. I'm a victim here, really".
What's even worse is the retards who actually believe it. "Well! I don't know much about videogames...but if he said it, then it must be true! Burn all videogames everrrrr!".

What's worse is that it's not gonna change because, again, those accusing videogames of being violent don't actually give a crap about videogames. It's easier to point and judge from afar than sit down and understand what they're accusing at the risk of being wrong.

 

[lostlevel]

You know, I think that you can find gamers feel uncomfortable with violence in video games too. I know for a fact that I felt like shit with Spec Ops: The Line, and all of my friends who I got to play with, who all play "violent video games" on a pretty regular basis, said that it was fucked up.

If presented well, violence in video games, even though it will never be as realistic and be a little cartoony in comparison to real life, can still make you feel bad.

I've got to say I agree, Spec Ops: The Line made me feel bad and I play Halo a lot -not exactly the most realistic shooter on the planet but it still made me question my enjoyment of it. I felt very drained when I completed spec ops the first time round. At the end I couldn't decide at the end there is a choice that after the whole story made me question many things and I didn't play any shooters for while after that. The odd thing about spec ops is it's game play isn't unique and has the pretty much standard shooter graphics of this generation but there are the harrowing details like fallen enemies writhing around the floor in pain (an issue I had with GTA4 amplified) that make it so effective and unlike many video games the consequences impact on the character and you.

It is when things become realistic that it becomes disturbing, often we can cope with idea of things but as soon as we are faced with the reality of something we can't handle it and whilst horrible I get Jim's point it's a good thing, it proves we aren't changed by cartoon violence, we still don't like real violence.

The clip is disturbing, I regret not skipping it and I'll do my best to forget it but I get why he showed it at least he warned us.

 

[Spakka]

I found that video pretty disturbing to watch.

I don't know why but as a medical student I have no problems assisting on bloody open surgery but videos and images like the video shown here are still disturbing despite being much 'tamer' than many things I've seen IRL which pose no problems.

 

[KiloFox]

Do you reckon you could edit it what the graphic content is in the description so people know what it is?

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of what happened in the content was? As in why the person did it?

i actually do wanna know why. when he pulled out the gun everyone freaked, but it looked like he was gonna try and demonstrate a point but never got around to it. i would like some context.


OT though, i actually wasn't disturbed at all on the footage. he pulled the gun, people freaked, he looked like he was trying to calm them down to explain something, they got louder, he shot himself. i had the same expression the entire time, and i didn't really feel any different before, after, or during. now i'm not gonna claim that games desensitized me to violence, that's bullshit. i'm just broken in the head naturally and i know that. in fact, i have the intelligence to hide it most of the time and never do anything about it. and just because i, in particular, wasn't disturbed, dosn't mean that nobody else was. i am not a representation of the rest of gamers, and neither is anyone else who plays games then goes out killing people. they're just a small minority of people who are already broken, but just happen to play games. i'm just smart enough not to go bat-shit insane and do something stupid like that. i enjoy living free to play my games and be my weird-ass self.

I think I know why it's not destibing to me. I saw 2 planes run into buildings for 5 months over and over and over and saw a man jumping out a 100 story building over and over. I think Jim is right the violance in the News is fucking us up more than a VG or fiction.

you have a very good point sir, and i believe that's a point that Jim was trying to get accross in his video.

however i personally never watched any 9/11 footage because A) i don't watch, not trust, the news, and B) i didn't have access to a TV back then.

 

[Nash]

What disturbs me about the video isn't as much in the content, rather the way in which it was presented. For the camera man to zoom in and focus on Dwyer after it happened...

Well, frankly I can't understand why any human being would want to get a clearer shot of it.

 

[J Tyran]

I think I know why it's not destibing to me. I saw 2 planes run into buildings for 5 months over and over and over and saw a man jumping out a 100 story building over and over. I think Jim is right the violance in the News is fucking us up more than a VG or fiction.

The 9/11 footage is some of the most horrible footage ever, seeing those planes hitting the building knowing they are full of hundreds of people. Knowing that the towers are full of thousands of people, even worse knowing everyone above the impact has no way of escaping.

Then to top it off you see people, humans just like me. Humans with lives and families and friends. Then you see those people preferring to jump to their death instead of burning or suffocating to death. Finally you see the collapse of the towers, still with people inside. In some ways I really wish the news and documentary channels would stop airing it so much. It was a significant part of history and obviously deserves recognition, but to keep showing the suffering and death of thousands of people is just to much

 

[Lawnmooer]

Hmm... This video disturbed me...

Not because of the "Disturbing Footage" but my reaction to it, or lack thereof... Combined with the "Any sane person" line made me question myself...

That said my complete desensitisation to violence (Both real and video game) is probably due to my past (Was in a gang that actively used guns when I was younger, have been stabbed multiple times and seen various people (Friends and family) die) rather than any sort of bullshit about games causing violence.

I don't like how the media keeps spinning the story to show that video games caused violence in some form of another when it is actually a disturbed and violent individual whom happens to play video games (They probably also watched TV, looked at news in some form, ate food, breathed air...)

For example the multiple murders that occurred when Manhunt was released, the blame was put solely on the game when it was a individual who happened to use a technique of murder that appeared in the game (Not even a original one, it was suffocation via a plastic bag over the head, not hard to think up for anyone with the inclination for pre-meditated murder)

I hate how this portrayal by the media both effects how people see gamers (Especially if you also like the music genre of "Metal" which was I believe the last media scapegoat for causing violence) and also how it affects game design and distribution (Not allowing for more visceral action, no allowing for games to show the horrors of war with truly shocking moments and the inability for various countries to sell certain games due to having laws against violence and such)

Edit:

Well, frankly I can't understand why any human being would want to get a clearer shot of it.

Morbid curiosity. It's incredibly strange yet very common, people like to look at death and extreme injuries. Especially if it's something shocking and uncommon like watching someone commit suicide, then of course add in that it may also be so shocking that it could have been thought to be a joke and looking closer allows the reality of what happened to set in.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

Hmm... This video disturbed me...

Not because of the "Disturbing Footage" but my reaction to it, or lack thereof... Combined with the "Any sane person" line made me question myself...

Don't worry, I've looked it up. Worrying about your sanity means you're self-aware, and sane enough that insanity isn't a problem.

 

[Blastinburn]

I watched the video and, seeing the warning of content, decided to watch it. I've never seen the video before, never heard of the event, or anything, and after watching it I had only one reaction...

"...that's it?"

Now before you start calling me heartless or evil or anything like that... I'm not. Or at least I try not to be. I care about others and so forth, but when I saw that video... it felt to me like the violence shown was no worse than what you'd see in some movies. A man holds a gun to his mouth, suddenly he drops with a pop and the camera loses track of him, and when you next see him he's on the ground, staring blankly, a few moments passing before blood starts dripping down his face.

That sounds exactly like a dramatic moment you'd see in a movie, and that's what I thought.

It has admittedly left me wondering what kind of person I am though, and if I've really become more jaded to some things than I thought I was. Why didn't I react? Why did I see it and just think "What, that's all?"? Is it because he fell and the actual moment of death wasn't seen? Was it because it appeared to be relatively clean and there weren't guts all over the place? Was it because I saw it as a videoclip instead of actually in person? Was it because of games AND movies desensitizing me or making me jaded with over-the-top things?

I have no idea. And I'm not saying Videogames cause violence either, just like Rock and Roll didn't cause satanism way back when. But when the media as a whole may have left me jaded and/or desensitized to that videoclip... it does leave me wondering...

...what does it say about me?

I felt the same way actually, "That's it?" I was quite surprised by how little I felt when I saw the video, I was expecting something so much worse. I consider myself a (real life) pacifist and dislike violence, and in fact find very little/no enjoyment in ultra-violent games. Yet I didn't feel anything for the loss of this REAL life I just saw. A post a bit further above yours did remind me of something which made me feel confident in who I am again. A few years ago our house was being flooded with ants. I found one in the bathroom, grabbed a tissue, and squashed it. I felt it "POP" between my fingers. I stood there for a bit, then started crying, in fact I'm crying now just thinking about it. So I think I do still value life, although I do think I am a bit crazy.

As for how you felt, you knew it was coming. Perhaps you just prepared yourself too much for the clip, you were ready for something you imagined to be so much worse. I think this might be what happened with me, which would explain my lack of feeling, I had closed myself off.

 

[SonofaJohannes]

I didn't even watch the clip. That's how scared I am of real violence.
Good job Jim. Really good episode.

 

[Jester076]

Bravo, Jim. Bravo.

 

[Neferius]

i know now i shouldn't have... but watching the clip made me feel sad and cold inside :{

 

[Neferius]

Spoiler

I watched the video and, seeing the warning of content, decided to watch it. I've never seen the video before, never heard of the event, or anything, and after watching it I had only one reaction...

"...that's it?"

Now before you start calling me heartless or evil or anything like that... I'm not. Or at least I try not to be. I care about others and so forth, but when I saw that video... it felt to me like the violence shown was no worse than what you'd see in some movies. A man holds a gun to his mouth, suddenly he drops with a pop and the camera loses track of him, and when you next see him he's on the ground, staring blankly, a few moments passing before blood starts dripping down his face.

That sounds exactly like a dramatic moment you'd see in a movie, and that's what I thought.

It has admittedly left me wondering what kind of person I am though, and if I've really become more jaded to some things than I thought I was. Why didn't I react? Why did I see it and just think "What, that's all?"? Is it because he fell and the actual moment of death wasn't seen? Was it because it appeared to be relatively clean and there weren't guts all over the place? Was it because I saw it as a videoclip instead of actually in person? Was it because of games AND movies desensitizing me or making me jaded with over-the-top things?

I have no idea. And I'm not saying Videogames cause violence either, just like Rock and Roll didn't cause satanism way back when. But when the media as a whole may have left me jaded and/or desensitized to that videoclip... it does leave me wondering...

...what does it say about me?

Spoiler

I felt the same way actually, "That's it?" I was quite surprised by how little I felt when I saw the video, I was expecting something so much worse. I consider myself a (real life) pacifist and dislike violence, and in fact find very little/no enjoyment in ultra-violent games. Yet I didn't feel anything for the loss of this REAL life I just saw. A post a bit further above yours did remind me of something which made me feel confident in who I am again. A few years ago our house was being flooded with ants. I found one in the bathroom, grabbed a tissue, and squashed it. I felt it "POP" between my fingers. I stood there for a bit, then started crying, in fact I'm crying now just thinking about it. So I think I do still value life, although I do think I am a bit crazy.

As for how you felt, you knew it was coming. Perhaps you just prepared yourself too much for the clip, you were ready for something you imagined to be so much worse. I think this might be what happened with me, which would explain my lack of feeling, I had closed myself off.

The "that's it?!!" IS the first reaction most people get. The second one being the realization that, yes, that's it, it's That easy to end someone's life or for someone else to end yours. And that's when most people start feeling cold inside.
Not getting that second reaction means that, deep down, on a subconscious level, you don't care anymore.

Take a moment to reflect on the value of your life and the life of those around you.

 

[JimB]

I think this video may have affected me more than I thought it did eight pages ago: I watched it again, and I was downright surprised to see the suicide footage was in color. I'd have sworn on my mother's name it was black and white.

 

[Eve Charm]

I think this video may have affected me more than I thought it did eight pages ago: I watched it again, and I was downright surprised to see the suicide footage was in color. I'd have sworn on my mother's name it was black and white.

Hmm maybe it was reuploaded with a color clip because i remember it being in black and white to.

Now I'm kinda in the same boat as the " that's it?" feel of seeing the clip, I won't really say it's a bad thing since I had a minute or so of prep time before what I was about to see and your mind can come up with something more frightening then real life.

If we clicked play and the first thing to pop up was the footage, without the prep time I would have been a lot more disturbed and pissed, but ya then that would just dumb the footage and the point to nothing more then a screamer.