Jimquisition: Diversity? LIEversity!

[hermes]

I guess most people just jumped on the hate wagon instead of actually reading the source of all this debacle. The point the designer make was not about having female characters, but having the OPTION between a male and female character was too difficult to add at this point. Which, while unfortunate, its perfectly valid.
While some games have the options in the built inside the customization tools, they were a) games built from the ground up to have different sex protagonists (and scripts have to take that into consideration) like Mass Effect, or b) games that don't care about the sex of your character at all, leaving you have sex/get married with pretty much anything, like Skyrim and Saints Rows...

Here are a few of the things Ubisoft would have to do if they wanted to have "diversity":
- We don't know if the script would work with a mixed cast, or a cast where each character can be of any sex.
- We don't know how much work animators would have given the customization options;
- We don't know if they are named characters... if they are, they would have to double many lines in order to address the female character or the male one.
- We don't know how many lines they have, but we can assume they would have to record them twice (and in every language, remember that AC includes all the localization options on the disc)
- We don't know how deep the customization options run, but to make it properly would require to double the wardrobe options...

At the end of the day, the new character(s) are fully designed, which means they have every right to define as they want; people yet confuse having the option to customize characters with everything goes...

Most of those stuff are things we don't know, but the designers do... But this is Internet, which means we can all go around talking like we know better about designing, developing and budgeting games.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

ug.... just ug....

Games are art, they can make whatever art they want

This seems to be the consensus view unless the discussion is about absolutely anything other than representation. It's weird how the "make whatever art they want" thing never gets pulled out when people complain about lame stories, or brown-grey environments, or lighting effects, or gunplay style etc.

And the thing is, from what Ubisoft's reps said the "artists" behind Far Cry 4 and Assassin's Creed actually really wanted to include female playable characters but were told that they weren't allowed to because of the precious budget. Funny how the "leave the game makers aloooone" crowd aren't at all mad about that.

They could have easily done it too, they managed it in both Assasin's Creed 4's multiplayer mode (And in the previous games featuring multiplayer) and Far Cry 3's co-op mode. It's not like we're asking them to do something they've never done before, they've demonstrated that they can do it without gutting their precious budgets. When most of the devs in question are all sying that they wanted to do it BUT weren't allowed due to "budget constraints" that stinks of publisher interference.

I do not support the weak excuse they undoubtedly made in a futile attempt to stem backlash. It is my position that no excuse is necessary in the first place.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

There are two thinking i dont know about Unity is:-

1. Are you all playing the same level as the main character but working together with others thus the cutscenes will show your character?

2. Are you just acting as backup to player one - and all the cutscences show Player ones character?

Also from what i gather people seem to be confusing an actual game whose main character is a female assassin with what i think is just a generic female avatar for multiplayer. For me if its just standard multiplayer like other AC games then they should have a female character. Also i think it would be safe for Ubisoft to create an assassins creed game with a female character. Would lead to more interesting elements if you add disguises to it and add commentary to how woman were treated in those eras as well. Lots of interesting things can be done with it.

It is number 1. Everyone plays as their main character and sees the others with a random NPC face.

 

[timeformime]

snip

I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a position of ignorance - that ship date that's been set for a year or more is not nonsense. Take a look at the dev process for a 1000 strong team, then tell me it's a piece of cake to include females with a snap of your fingers.

EVERYONE is arguing from a position of ignorance because ubisoft doesn't tell us a bloody thing. there's no transparency at all. I'm not saying that including women in the game at this point is a snap of the fingers, but I think they can and should do it. I also think it would get them a lot of positive press, and possibly more sales. We're not asking them to rewrite the entire story, it's just the coop. Although If they want to do it properly, they'll make the next AAA AC with a female protagonist. It's about time.

No, we're not ignorant - there are some basic truths we should keep in mind. It's pretty well established that using 1000 developers to retroactively implement and polish a new character from the ground up, keeping in mind that the game should be in beta right about now, is really freaking complicated. Neither of us know if what you're saying is as simple as it is, because we're not developers and the game's not out. That's about all there is to be said, and drawing any other conclusion is flat out presumptuous.

 

[zvate]

Another excellent video from jim. Whether deciet or incompatance it's still pathetic.

...and to all those saying a women wouldn't fit with the story being told I would point out that revolutionary France was one of the few times in history where large groups of women did take up arms and commit violence on a wide scale as equal bad-asses as their male counterparts. Women with guns helped storm the Bastille, riot the living snot out of Paris and were single handily responsible (all women, no men) for forcing the king and queen out of their palace at Versailles, at gun point, because they wanted to loot it because they thought the royals were hoarding food.

 

[CrazyBlaze]

Ubisoft: Women are HARD you guys.

Meanwhile at Nintendo... a tactical shooter starring squid girls.

Without even trying, you nailed it. Well done Finn from Adventure Time. Well done my friend.

OT: If it wasn't for Nintendo, I may of felt a bit of sympathy for Ubisoft. But, looking back at E3- Nintendo is making a new IP called Splatoon where half the characters are girls shooting paint all over the map. It's a risky, money consuming gamble because it can totally blow ... and yet, Nintendo is doing it anyways without complaining.

How is it that a company like Nintendo who's been suffering from lack of sales, is willing to risk a new IP while Ubisoft can't even attempt to make the 4 main characters in their new Assassins Creed game have a slight variant look from one another? They all look like twins. Literally, they've got almost the same beards and color of hair too.

Then again, I must say I feel like we are being treated like we're stupid. Even if Ubisoft is right and the cost is expensive.. they surely aren't explaining the problem clearly. All we want is for the 4 main characters to have more unique differences rather then different color clothing (because without that, they ARE all twins if not clones). That alone makes me sort of uninterested in their new game. On the plus side, Nintendo not only nailed E3 but got me so hyped for their new Super Smash Brothers, Bayonetta, and Zelda games... I might buy a Wii U just for those games. They look AMAZING and Nintendo isn't shy in the least for giving us plenty of female/interesting characters.

Heck the actual Zelda character in their Dynasty Warriors-like game looks as if she can totally handle herself with some amazing moves. Then you have that one character who summons a wolf and can wield a giant hand. That alone is going to make many more want to try the game out. But that's just it... an old game with Link involved got me far more interested then Ubisoft's new AC game because the protagonists are all very different and interesting in comparison to the 4 bland... same exact characters like the rest.

Except there is not four main characters. There is one. The rest are other people's variations of that character. Think GTA where everyone can choose their clothes to wear or their hair or tattoos. Its the same with ACU just also with weapons. Hence why everyone looks similar. It is because they are the same. You aren't going to a screen to pick a new avatar. You are using the same one you have in SP in CooP

 

[RandV80]

This is more or less the first time I'm seeing the issue with the new Assassins Creed brought up, and it seems pretty obvious to me. It was a board room/marketing research decision that white male characters sold best, and they left it up to some middle man to find an excuse to appease the 'social justice warriors' on the internet. The first group doesn't seem to take the SJW's that seriously obviously, and I don't know they may be right not to be worried.

 

[malestrithe]

This is why I play Japanese Video games a lot more than Western ones. They solved the problem of the female protagonist a long time ago.

 

[Ruisu]

I honestly don't care, since the game looks great anyway, and I loved most AC games before, and Ubisoft games in general tend to turn out good games.

So yeah. If we get more games with female player characthers? I'm okay. If not? I'm also okay.

I just care about the game being good. Too bad if people need so much more than that. Because when we DO get women, it won't be "it". People won't be happy, because they need black women, old women, strong women, weak women, and then still won't be happy, because the games these women are in are not making money enough.

There is one single constant here. If the game is good for "you", then it won't matter in the end if the protagonists are male or female, you'll like to play it. If not, you'll just use it as another reason to complain about it on-line.
Hell, people don't even give Aveline that much credit anyway because "it wasn't in the main series".

This is why I play Japanese Video games a lot more than Western ones. They solved the problem of the female protagonist a long time ago.

Dragon's Crown controversy. Japanese games have no problem putting female protagonists, because is all the same for them, but people still get extremely butthurt over them.

 

[Jupiter065]

Y'all do realize that "It was just too much work" is codespeak for "We're releasing this part of the game as paid DLC so we can sell you our game twice" in this cynical moneygrubbing industry.

You will be able to select your multiplayer character, including a woman character, but you'll have to pay for it.

(By the way, this is not an excuse for Ubisoft, it just makes it that much worse)

 

[LordMonty]

Ubi disapoint me so much, so many good games mired in BS like this.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

I don't think that's how laissez faire works, you can't just say that we don't know if games with female brotaganists would sell better than those without because they don't put them in AAA games. The fact that AssCreed sells well enough for ubisoft not to care enough to put female brotagonists means that women in games is not important enough to the consumer. Now if Farcry 4 only sold a few thousand copies until women were patched in that would be a different story.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

I did find it strange that female animations apparently took so much work and money. Granted I guess a woman walking is not exactly identical to a man's walk but it hardly seems like something that can't be easily tweaked. Unless Ubisoft animate all there female models with massive swaying hips Jessica Rabbit style that is... which come to think of it might revive my interest in Assassin Creed if just briefly for the amusing spectacle that would make.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I've been going with 'they are liers' on this one and they just don't want to make a playable female assassin, but are to spineless to just come out and say it.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

People will buy the excuse, even defend it. That's why.

Well I didn't say it was a valid excuse, I just said it was more valid than saying it was too expensive.

Well, no. The historicity argument is utter crap. Not only do we have evidence of female assassins, not only did Ubisoft add them into other games, but Ubisoft chucked historicity out the window with the very first game and got worse with time. That excuse doesn't fly at all. But the excuse that maybe Ubisoft so poorly manages things that their games with huge Hollywood budgets and three-year dev cycles still can't manage to make a woman possible?

I'd say that's a more valid argument. You still have to ignore them animating women before, even women with voices, even women with voices doing assassiny things. But it's still the more likely reason.

I already conceded my ignorance. You people don't have to keep reminding me how stupid I am.

 

[Frozengale]

Speaking as a modder/game dev wanna be I was kinda floored by the excuse that it would be "to hard" to animate/model female characters. One of the simplest things you learn when modding is scaling models and transferring animations between models. Heck give me access to Ubisoft's Engine and assets and I bet I could get you a Female Assassin up and running by the end of the week. Voice Acting might take a bit more money... but it will take you DAYS at the most if you already have all the dialogue planned out. Just hire a decent VA and I'm sure they could bust out all the dialogue over the course of a few days.

 

[Baresark]

AC Unity: I think it was literally dumb of them to not have a female playable character in the MP like that. It was short sighted and stupid and compounded by the fact that they gave some complete bullshit reason for not doing it. Also, they have female basic character models and animations already, they have women walking around the world.

FC4: I don't care about the sex of the protagonist at all. People get bent out of shape on this particular issue, but I just want to play a good game. I enjoyed the last Tomb Raider game independent of the fact that the main character was a woman. I enjoyed Far Cry 3 independent of the fact that the main character was a white guy. These things are just inconsequential so long that the game is good.

 

[Necromancer1991]

I do not support the weak excuse they undoubtedly made in a futile attempt to stem backlash. It is my position that no excuse is necessary in the first place.

While I do agree that ultimately Ubisoft isn't required to give us playable female protagonists, but the excuses they give as to why they don't are just flimsy in light of all the evidence against their claim that making a female character would be too time-consuming and expensive. Again I don't really care one way or the other if we do get a female player character for the co-op modes of either game, I just don't like publishers making flimsy excuses.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

I'm a bit sick of devs/publishers being so fucking stupid when handling such matters. Responding at ALL is always their first mistake, and then they respond in a stupid manner that's guaranteed to piss people off. Why would a publisher/dev shoot themselves in the foot like this when it can EASILY be avoided by simply not responding, or at least being careful with words?

Instead of standing by their product and their decision to stick with male characters, they are coming off as apologetic and making excuses which OF COURSE people are going to call "bullshit and weak". Because they already placed themselves on the back foot. Showing any signs of weakness in this industry results in people tearing you apart and that's exactly what happened here.

Developers and publishers need to seriously grow some balls (no pun intended, I swear) when it comes to handling accusations of sexism, racisim, homosexuality, etc anything that's the "controversy hot topic" these days.
This is not the first time something like this has happened, IO Interactive also did a similar mistake with their handling of Hitman trailer controversy and came off as sounding apologetic and making weak excuses. If Ubisoft HAD to open their mouths on the matter, they could've easily said something generic like:

> "We may add it as DLC" (with no plans of ever doing that, but this is about avoiding controversy)
> "We'll see if we can get the art/design team to look into it" (see above)
> "It didn't fit with our vision for the game" (a bit more risky to say this)
> "You'll have to ask the XYZ person/team that one, that wasn't up to me" (knowing that XYZ person/team is not contactable)
But nope, lets start nervously stammering out excuses and revealing details how the company had a female character in the works but ran out of money/time/etc! Oh and lets give a healthy sprinkling of words like "unfortunately" and "sadly" to make people sympathize with us, that's bound to go down well!
I don't even fucking work in that area and yet I can think of so many non-stupid replies to easily squash any chance of controversy.

I thought companies hired PR experts for the express purpose of stopping this shit from happening. Do they not have the slightest clue about how to handle consumers? Are the PR guys even doing their jobs, are companies letting them?

A developer should be able to say "I created my game this way. Buy it or fuck off." (politely of course). It's heartbreaking to see them resorting to excuses as if they need to defend their decisions with characters or story.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

Oh God........... Jim I know it's your life long ambition to become a women, but every time you approach the topic of sexism I want to damage my ear drums with a Q-Tip!

Is it a lame excuse Yes, but at the same time who cares? Ubisofts is Probably running under the philosophy of if it ain't broke don't fix it. Also if you recall they did make Assassin Creed games with a Black, Native American and Woman protagonist. They probably just didn't want to this time, thought it wasn't worth it or simply did it for historical accuracy. Ok that last ones a bit of a stretch, but in the end if sales start hurting because of the lack of diversity than they'll be forced to change it or die so the problem will eventually be solved by itself.