Jimquisition: Dragon's Frown

[Imp_Emissary]

The facehugger attacks once again. Jim, I fear that you never may escape Aliens: Colonial Marines.
... ever.

Much like the titular critters of the franchise, ACM is a force of nature.

Now onto the topic at hand. It does feel that the gaming community is spoiled (In my opinion), games as you said that people complain and demand a '10/10' (Whatever 10/10 is these days. It feels like 10/10 should be impossible to achieve). It is annoying that the single bad review is gaining all of the press now instead of the praise.

In fact, the Escapist gave it a lower score, so you'd think that'd be the focus.

Well is there really so much of a difference between a 6.5 and a 3/5=(6/10)?

Then again all this number malarkey is hogwash. ;p The review on the escapist marked Dragon's Crown down because of reasons other than just the titillation, and as you said, the one from Polygon(Who sadly have only one emotions) had other reasons for the score too. The game has a few issues. But the overall review(at the Escapist at least) was still pretty positive.

People saying people are hating on the game just because of the titillation are about as right in the head(or at least as informed) as the people who call 8/10 Hate/10(un-ironically).

 

[Vicioussama]

My only problem with all of this is the fact there's a score at all. Video game reviews getting scored with numbers are so stupid. Numbers should be objective, not subjective. And every review of everything is entirely subjective.

Though my own personal problem with the polygon review itself is that it seems highly sexist to me. She focuses on the absurd portrayal of women ignoring the men are just as much absurdly portrayed. She seems like a faux feminist that is quick to blame men and sexism and say women are always portrayed wrong ignoring the full reality of the situation. But, oh well.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Oh yes, it's another video about reviews and things. Not quite the usual flavor, but certainly something that cannot be repeated enough.

I rate this episode of The Jimquisition a 7 out of 10.

 

[MeisterKleister]

This episode reminded me a lot of Jim's older episode 'Your reviews are TEH BIAS!' where he basically responds to people giving him crap for giving FFXIII a low score and his review containing 'too much of his opinion'.

I think it all boils down to the overall quality of review. See, first and foremost it's a 2D RPG/beat-em-up. In case of that review reviewer but a lot of stock into particular art style quirks which are highly, highly subjective. See, all reviews are subjective but what differentiates a good reviewer is ability to determine which parts are most important. That depiction of women ties very neatly into medieval fantasy theme. A good reviewer would evaluate gameplay, RPG elements, story and such first and stuff like huge boobs second. That review reads like a whiny blog and that's the issue.
It would be all fine and good if they scored the game low based on core elements like leveling system. But on basis on some highly subjective and arguably stupid elements of art?
See Jim, the point being it's not a professional review. It's a whiny blog. If we don't stomp such "reviewers" now next thing will be Dynasty Warriors getting 1 and 2 scores because of lack of proper beard on certain characters.

All a good reviewer needs to do is to argue their opinions well, so other people can follow how they reached their verdict.
And 'I enjoyed this game a lot less because I didn't like its art style' is a perfectly valid reason.

 

[masticina]

Humans are odd

Really one or two bad marks and people go wild.

Just play the game and enjoy it. Ignore the voices that are negative. Relax and seriously there is a reason why both the lowest and the highest score in a review list tends not to count. It is the middle area there you learn the most. And not to mention, read the actual review text. Really just read reviews, watch videos, play through.. make up your own mind.

In the end there are always one or two places that give a game a relative high or low score. A score is just a number in the end, your personal enjoyment of it isn't effected. See beyond the numbers and instead READ the review. Make up your own mind!

How many times I haven't bought games that in the reviews get 6's. I say if the price is right and I like the game .. you know it is worth my money. Hell I don't mind waiting!

So the game has rather big mammeries, so big they are pretty useless in a fight. Well haven't we seen that before in brawlers? I mean they are so big that it is a joke! I mean serious guys that big.. its a joke!

 

[DirkDeadeye]

Polygon.

They know how to write articles that get a lot of attention. Fuckin' stole the show during the SimCity debacle. With that score changing nonsense. I'm not sure how many mods and community managers there are on most other sites..mainly because the comments don't stretch a mile long down the front page. But they seem equipped and ready to battle off anyone that goes too far, or drum up even more conversation in those comments sections.

Every time there's a hute stink about a game score, or a game score that doesn't quite line up with the review. It's been polygon more often than not.

To be honest, this is the first I've heard about it..because I quit reading that site. And for some reason, their reviews seem to penetrate deep enough for me to take a notice to them...at least their buzz derailing controversies. Might be a coincidence. I dunno. I quit reading their reviews..And I'm happier for it. Probably need to unfollow Jim, because he's the one who steers me towards the drama now, I mean he's doing his job..but still.

Edit: read the review..

I don't know what the game is about. I just know it has large breasted women, and the boss battles are fun..

That review sucked. I want to know about the game. Not gonna go on a tirade, just going to not read polygon reviews..Which I said I had stopped..but, you know. I got this close to it, might as well read it.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I think it all boils down to the overall quality of review. See, first and foremost it's a 2D RPG/beat-em-up. In case of that review reviewer but a lot of stock into particular art style quirks which are highly, highly subjective. See, all reviews are subjective but what differentiates a good reviewer is ability to determine which parts are most important. That depiction of women ties very neatly into medieval fantasy theme. A good reviewer would evaluate gameplay, RPG elements, story and such first and stuff like huge boobs second. That review reads like a whiny blog and that's the issue.

I'm not so sure about that being all that and nothing else, my Lord.

The Escapist's review brought up issues about Dragon's Crown's gameplay, RPG elements, and the story(Quest giving being done in character, making them a bit hard to follow sometimes), but still arrived(numerically) at about the same score at the end, 3/5.

However, there were still a fair number of angry comments claiming that the lower than perfect score was just because of the "BEWBS!"
Even though the whole of the review was actually pretty positive.

 

[major_chaos]

Which explains their TLoU review.

Or maybe they just didn't like it? I know I didn't. But nah, better to assume the game was perfect any anyone who doesn't think so is taking teh bribes.

OT: People freaking out over review scores is nothing new, whether its "whhhaaa score to high, must be paid for" or "whhhaaaaa score to low, reviewer is scum/biased/has no taste"
As for Dragon's Crown, I never cared about the overblown controversy, in part because it jumped to front page news after the Kotaku article, and (IMO) Kotaku can not go away fast enough.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I didn't even read any of the scores (I never do), but I'm very mad at every reviewer who looked at Dragon's Crown, including the one at Polygon. I'm mad at them because they write like shit and spend all their time talking about the art, but don't know enough about art or art criticism to notice, let alone comment on all the amazing things going on in that game's art design (hint: not much to do with breasts, more to do with elaborate homages to classic works of art).

Actually, I am mad at the entire gaming press literally all the time because they are all complete failures as critics of any kind despite constantly going on about how much better qualified they are because they read a bastardization of theory decades out of date on a blog somewhere. I would not be at all put out if the entire lot of them were sacked tomorrow and we started over with a new batch who can actually fucking write.

 

[xPixelatedx]

TL;DR version: "This person has an opinion that I don't agree with, therefore it is wrong and harmful. Also everyone should be emotionless robots so they're never 'bias' about anything ever!"

Well since you said TL;DR, I am going to assume you didn't read what i wrote, and going by your response you didn't.

I think you need to watch this review at least 20 more times until the point manages to penetrate your thick skull. I think he also did a video on how ridiculous the assertion that reviewers can't have a subjective opinions (being human beings and all) is stupid, so watch that one a couple dozen times too.

I understood it fully, that's why I was able to make an argument against it.

But then, maybe that doesn't count because I'm "bias" and would gladly take every copy of Other M that exists and have them thrown into the sun and wipe every pixel of code of the game from the face of the earth, and think everyone who enjoys it is a terrible person.

Yes, that pretty much illustrates my point exactly. I expect people paid to review games to be quite a bit more professional then a random commenter on the internet. Sure, being human means were not all perfect, but there is a requirement (or there should be) for a certain level of professionalism in this field. If you give every game with guns perfect ratings because you LOVE GUNS, you're not a very good game reviewer. You're entitled to your opinion and you can have it, but you're not very good. It seems this should go for things you hate, to, at least I think so.

 

[DirkDeadeye]

I didn't even read any of the scores (I never do), but I'm very mad at every reviewer who looked at Dragon's Crown, including the one at Polygon. I'm mad at them because they write like shit and spend all their time talking about the art, but don't know enough about art or art criticism to notice, let alone comment on all the amazing things going on in that game's art design (hint: not much to do with breasts, more to do with elaborate homages to classic works of art).

Actually, I am mad at the entire gaming press literally all the time because they are all complete failures as critics of any kind despite constantly going on about how much better qualified they are because they read a bastardization of theory decades out of date on a blog somewhere. I would not be at all put out if the entire lot of them were sacked tomorrow and we started over with a new batch who can actually fucking write.

Yeah, I settle in to read a review about a game..

I come out confused, and angry.

I didn't learn anything about the game..

I read some fuckin' editorial about objectification of women.

I then make the mistake of rolling my mouse further into the comments.

I just got in an argument with someone.

I STILL DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THIS GAME IS ABOUT!!

 

[Psychobabble]

Didn't see an issue with the polygon review. The reviewer stated clearly and honestly what they liked and disliked about the game and rated it accordingly. Nothing wrong with that.

However if the general gaming news and community starts trying to use this one review as the focal point for the entire criticism of the game, then yes I agree that would be bullshit. This review is simply stating how the game measures up against this one individuals personal tastes. Again nothing wrong with that. However its just possible the game was made without this individuals personal tastes in mind. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

 

[Roman Monaghan]

I think it all boils down to the overall quality of review. See, first and foremost it's a 2D RPG/beat-em-up. In case of that review reviewer but a lot of stock into particular art style quirks which are highly, highly subjective. See, all reviews are subjective but what differentiates a good reviewer is ability to determine which parts are most important. That depiction of women ties very neatly into medieval fantasy theme. A good reviewer would evaluate gameplay, RPG elements, story and such first and stuff like huge boobs second. That review reads like a whiny blog and that's the issue.
It would be all fine and good if they scored the game low based on core elements like leveling system. But on basis on some highly subjective and arguably stupid elements of art?
See Jim, the point being it's not a professional review. It's a whiny blog. If we don't stomp such "reviewers" now next thing will be Dynasty Warriors getting 1 and 2 scores because of lack of proper beard on certain characters.

This got tweeted on Jims twitter, and will/was probably showed around in the comments here already, but fuck it, because you more then anyone needs to see it: http://i.imgur.com/6GXBC96.jpg

Yes, that pretty much illustrates my point exactly. I expect people paid to review games to be quite a bit more professional then a random commenter on the internet. Sure, being human means were not all perfect, but there is a requirement (or there should be) for a certain level of professionalism in this field. If you give every game with guns perfect ratings because you LOVE GUNS, you're not a very good game reviewer. You're entitled to your opinion and you can have it, but you're not very good. It seems this should go for things you hate, to, at least I think so.

I knew there was one. I wantcha to watch this video, while looking at the stupid thing you said, and then feel really bad about yourself.

 

[DjinnFor]

ITT: Jim whining about whiners.

I thought I'd never see Jim pull out the "it doesn't matter stop whining" card, given that all he does on the show is whine about some particular topic.

This got tweeted on Jims twitter, and will/was probably showed around in the comments here already, but fuck it, because you more then anyone needs to see it: http://i.imgur.com/6GXBC96.jpg

That's called good PR. The review is still shit and reads like a whiny blog, Atlus implying otherwise is just here to sound good.

People are entitled to their opinions, and reviewers are entitled to their reviews, but that doesn't mean what they produce is quality work.

I knew there was one. I wantcha to watch this video, while looking at the stupid thing you said, and then feel really bad about yourself.

Quoting someone who doesn't have a leg to stand on with his/her arguments... also doesn't give you a leg to stand on either.

People are entitled to ***** at shitty reviewers who can't bother to add even a modicum of professionalism to their work.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

If I flipped out over reviewers not liking the games I like, I'd still be raging at Yatzee for hating on Borderlands and Kid Icarus.

But am I doing that? no. So what if one or two guys don't like it? How does that impact me?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Ugh, this is absurd. Can't people accept that not everyone is going to like the same things? It's because of the homogenization of game scores that makes me less likely to take perfect scores seriously. The only scores I'm apt to take seriously are the ones that are less than perfect.

 

[Anomynous 167]

I skimmed through 5 pages just to make sure no one else has made this point.
Anyone complaining about the rediculous chest sizes of two out of three women in Dragon's Crown is oversexualising, must remember that an equal proportion of male characters has chests bigger than their heads.

My problem with those character designs is that their faces are too soft:
The Sorceress looks like she puts on a lot of makeup, she just doesn't reek of the seductress. But then again, maybe that's part of her act?
Looking at the Amazon's, I get a huge hulk of muscle, a killing machine, topped off with a face that can only be described as innocence. Like, as an Amazon she is not warery of the ways of men. Or maybe it is a sign that she is a broken person? One trained in a spartan society to be completely subservient, sure she is strong physically, but she is not strong spiritually.

 

[LetalisK]

(skips to the end of the thread)

I don't think the premise of this video is on point. Who thinks it's totally cool to go off on someone like a spastic 12 year old because of a review? Conversely, who thinks people shouldn't be allowed to criticize a reviewer for what you perceive to be a bad review? It seems to me the real point boils down to something far more universal:[footnote]Myself being an offender of this[/footnote]

 

[Abomination]

A game reviewer and commentary show is complaining about complainers complaining about a review that's complaining about a game's artstyle.

Now we have a thread complaining about Jim complaining about complainers complaining about a review that's complaining about a game's artstyle.

Too much meta for me.

That being said, I don't give a shit about this particular reviewer. I try to find reviewers whose tastes have matched up with mine and use them as the basis of games I will like. If there's a reviewer whose tastes do not match mine then I will not use them as a point of reference for reviews.

A reviewer who finds the bombastic art style of Dragon's Crown to be overtly sexist/offensive or whatever is not a reviewer I am going to see eye to eye with on other issues. So they can give Aliens Colonial Marines a 10/10 and Skyrim a 2/10 and I will not lose a lick of sleep because I already decided I don't give a shit what they think.

Complaining about stupid people being stupid is in of itself a stupid thing to do.