Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals

[Casual Shinji]

Thanks for beating me to the punch.
Some people seem to mix games that are difficult owing to statistics and games that are hard owing to tactics.
No amount of health will help you beat the bed of chaos.
The game practically begs to be beaten if one looks at the item placement in the boss areas.
To anyone who thinks the game tells you nothing about its mechanics...It does."select" tells you what each stat means.That's what I did when I "prepared to die".
If people played the game the way the developer developed it,no one would ask for an "easy" mode.
They would see that the game is so flexible that nearly every form of difficulty can be made.
HOW DO PEOPLE THINK THE FANS CREATE BUILDS/"RUNS"?

If you wanna play a different way then intended(and be a beginner)....you get the motto.

And thank you for also understanding. God, I feel like aside from a few others I was one of the few sane people who actually get why no easy mode is a good thing.

It's like having button or prompt in Silent Hill 2 that makes a cute puppy appear infront of the screen.

It doesn't matter if it's optional, you're going to use it if it's an option, because you don't want to scared. But the whole point of the game is having no other option but to fight through that fear, and giving you the option to not be scared completely negates that.

 

[Elois]

I just want to be able to get somewhere in the fucking game I payed good money for.
I currently find it as inaccessable and boring as those old arcade games where you simply encounter more and more difficult foes.
I want to see the landscapes, the aesthetics, the amazing bosses, I could not give a damn about challenge in this type of game, it is not my forte.

In short, shut the fuck up you whining bitches, I own the game, I want to see what it has, and if I can do that with an easy mode, I'll all for it.

Why should a game open up just because you bought it? That would be like if I wanted portal to just auto complete the puzzles for me because I don't like puzzles. But the entire point of the game is the fun puzzles so that would be silly.

If you don't like a challenging game why did you buy a game that was marketed as a challenging game? Same thing. If you don't like challenging games, buy something else.

Besides, the game isn't locking content to you if you can't beat one boss or something. Just pay attention and get better at it and you to can see the rest of it. Or heck, just go online and find a sunbro summoning sign, they are generally overpowered enough to not need the host anyway.

 

[Korten12]

I just want to be able to get somewhere in the fucking game I payed good money for.
I currently find it as inaccessable and boring as those old arcade games where you simply encounter more and more difficult foes.
I want to see the landscapes, the aesthetics, the amazing bosses, I could not give a damn about challenge in this type of game, it is not my forte.

In short, shut the fuck up you whining bitches, I own the game, I want to see what it has, and if I can do that with an easy mode, I'll all for it.

How about you realize the game is not for you? Like another poster pointed out the games marketing is "PREPARE TO DIE."

That means your going in for a beating. If they were to make an easy mode, they would have to change all of the levels (not just stats), and remove what makes Dark Souls unique. Just raising stats wouldn't make some of the traps, and levels any easier because they aren't designed to be played easy.

So don't ***** at the game for not having an easy mode, when it was MARKETED to not have one and already announced not to have one. It's like going to an art movie and complaining it doesn't have enough action and that it should change so that it has explosions so you don't get bored and can see the whole movie.

Dark Soul's is a niche, it shouldn't have to accomadate others because they aren't patience enough to beat the game and play it as intended.

 

[babinro]

I agree 100% that games should offer easy/very easy/casual modes so any level of player should be able to experience nearly all content.

But this video seemed to miss the mark in terms of what I was expecting. I had really hoped Jim was going to address the concern of simplified mechanics. Several 'elitist' gamers scorned Dragon Age 2 for this.

Do you feel streamlining mechanics to make a game more accessible is a good thing or bad?
I'm 100% in favor of getting rid of tedious systems that aren't necessary for a good game play experience.
DA2 is fine by me. Diablo 3 dropping skill tree's is also fine by me.

Others...and not a minority either, feel these 'simplifications' can ruin the games entirely.

Curious what Jim's take would be on that issue.

 

[Dethenger]

While I generally agree with the episode, I feel like Dark Souls Easy Mode was a poor example.
There's a pretty good video about it here [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b91BWzLigs] by EpicNameBro, who I think is a pretty big guy in the Dark Souls community. I'd really recommend watching it, it's really insightful into game design, and he's just a cool guy in general.

 

[deathzero021]

Now i agree with optional modes being OK. they don't annoy me because they don't effect my experience. i also don't mind games trying to widen the audience a little.

*snip*

To summarize my over-sized post:
i think it's a great idea to try and appeal to a larger audience BUT it should never come at the cost of losing your fanbase.

to do what you said, a video game would have to take the hard mode out
or make everything easy.

so i think your going need
ALOT of citations

because if you leave a franchise because other people can play it now
you were never a fan to begin with, unless they are literally ruining(changing in a way that you dont enjoy , or a large number of people) it, for example if DmC becomes a franchise, im out like a trout

Series or franchises, lose their fan base all the time. This happens because they aren't adding support for casual gamers, they are CHANGING support. they replace the old style of gameplay with the casual style and effectively piss off every fan.

Long running series often change gameplay, not add to it to support everyone. Take a look at Resident Evil 1, compare it to Resident Evil 6. The gameplay didn't add more to it, it was changed to fit a different demographic entirely. (in the hope to make more money, which it did.) despite sales, critics hated the game simply because of the change. Even though it may not be a worse game, it's not a game that older Resident Evil fans would enjoy.

 

[YCRanger]

Adding an easy mode to Dark Souls DOES harm it, because the high difficulty is the very core of the experience and everything else is complementary, and it DOES harm everyone, because merely having the option of NOT exposing yourself to that grueling challenge destroys the experience utterly and misses the point entirely. After a while of getting your arse kicked you won't be able to "ignore" the easy mode, you'd be a fool otherwise to make it harder for yourself when you don't HAVE to. Except sometimes being FORCED to do certain stuff, or doing it in a particular way, is what makes it so enriching. Sometimes you find yourself enjoying a situation because you were pushed into it, otherwise you'd never willingly get into it. This is how human psychology works.
And so forth . . .

You nailed the point there good sir. Once again Jim misses the point and simply calls everyone else who doesn't agree elitist and attacks their character. It's starting to get old

 

[m19]

Far Cry 3 was ridiculously easy at Hard, because it was catered towards the casuals.

Easy compared to what?

 

[Mortrialus]

I agree 100% that games should offer easy/very easy/casual modes so any level of player should be able to experience nearly all content.

But this video seemed to miss the mark in terms of what I was expecting. I had really hoped Jim was going to address the concern of simplified mechanics. Several 'elitist' gamers scorned Dragon Age 2 for this.

Do you feel streamlining mechanics to make a game more accessible is a good thing or bad?
I'm 100% in favor of getting rid of tedious systems that aren't necessary for a good game play experience.
DA2 is fine by me. Diablo 3 dropping skill tree's is also fine by me.

Others...and not a minority either, feel these 'simplifications' can ruin the games entirely.

Curious what Jim's take would be on that issue.

I disagree with the idea that EVERY game should offer modal difficulty.

As far as simplifying mechanics, again it's a case by case basis. In Demon's Souls, there were stats called item burden and equip burden. Your max item burden was determined by the same stat that governed your players HP. Equip burden is governed by the same stat that governs your stamina. Item burden governs how much stuff you can carry in total and you cannot go over your item limit. This means that you had to make frequent visits back to the hubworld to bank your stuff. Equip burden determines how much weight your character's equipped items can be. The less equip burden you use, the faster you moves and dodges.

Dark Souls did away with item burden entirely. It also combined this with a world very reminiscent of the Metroid series; a huge nonlinear world filled with branching paths and hidden passages. The lack of item burden combined with the much heavier focus on exploration was a huge improvement in my opinion.

 

[Itchi_da_killa]

Sorry I couldn't make a short response. I tried.

Chess is a challenging game to master and a lot of fun for the people who want to put in the work. There are clicks and clubs that enjoy being exclusive to the game as well. Checkers is an easier game loosely based on Chess. It's casual form of the game being easier to set up and play, and a winner can be assured pretty quick.

That is kind of how video games can be divided. Dark Souls and Ninja Gaiden is a lot like Chess (in class) and something like The Reckoning or the Assassin's Creed games would be like Checkers to a gamer.

In the case of Dark Souls, it's a one of a kind experience that sets players apart. The game play and the unwrapping of it's story draws a line in the sand for many gamers. It becomes a club of sorts. If anyone can do it, then "no" it's not as special and "yes" it would take away from the superficial spirit of the community. The ego and competitiveness amongst peers is okay and very natural. I do love the fact that I am one of two in my circle of friends that have mastered this game while the others have given up to go play Dishonored.

It does no good for either side of the argument to insult each other. There are Chess games and there are Checker games both are fun but can't mix. If you removed some of the rules from Chess than it may not be enjoyed by the people who play it and the same goes for Checkers in regard to adding rules. You don't want to add a hard mode to games like Assassins Creed even though so many of us complain about it being too easy. I stopped playing the series after I completed the second one... because it was so easy. Dark Souls is a Chess type of game, enjoyed by people like me. So, in that regard that's why other DKS players were so upset about that news.

 

[VyceVictus]

I just want to be able to get somewhere in the fucking game I payed good money for.
I currently find it as inaccessable and boring as those old arcade games where you simply encounter more and more difficult foes.
I want to see the landscapes, the aesthetics, the amazing bosses, I could not give a damn about challenge in this type of game, it is not my forte.

In short, shut the fuck up you whining bitches, I own the game, I want to see what it has, and if I can do that with an easy mode, I'll all for it.

Sounds like you would be better off playing Darksiders II. Which is an excellent game, thats not an insult.
I own both Dark Souls and Darksiders, and although I was able to complete the very first special challenge (getting the asylum demon's hammer) it ultimately wasn't for me. I dont regret not enjoying the difficult level design, but that combined with the nebulous mechanics of the soul system turned me off. I agree that the game shouldn't have to change its fundamental mechanics, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with like an add on assist (like familiars that point things out Castlevania style or what have you.) As someone just mentioned, you shouldn't go to an art film expecting fast paced explosions. On the other hand, if I'm watching something like a foreign film or anime, subtitles or sub-notes that explain certain idioms or background information certainly wouldn't hurt (provided they are optional of course).

 

[Fluffythepoo]

Just a minor point: casuals are far cleaner people than regular gamers, they also smell nicer (most likely as a result of their more regular shower schedules)

 

[Elois]

I just want to be able to get somewhere in the fucking game I payed good money for.
I currently find it as inaccessable and boring as those old arcade games where you simply encounter more and more difficult foes.
I want to see the landscapes, the aesthetics, the amazing bosses, I could not give a damn about challenge in this type of game, it is not my forte.

In short, shut the fuck up you whining bitches, I own the game, I want to see what it has, and if I can do that with an easy mode, I'll all for it.

Sounds like you would be better off playing Darksiders II. Which is an excellent game, thats not an insult.
I own both Dark Souls and Darksiders, and although I was able to complete the very first special challenge (getting the asylum demon's hammer) it ultimately wasn't for me. I dont regret not enjoying the difficult level design, but that combined with the nebulous mechanics of the soul system turned me off. I agree that the game shouldn't have to change its fundamental mechanics, but I wouldn't see anything wrong with like an add on assist (like familiars that point things out Castlevania style or what have you.) As someone just mentioned, you shouldn't go to an art film expecting fast paced explosions. On the other hand, if I'm watching something like a foreign film or anime, subtitles or sub-notes that explain certain idioms or background information certainly wouldn't hurt (provided they are optional of course).

The ting is that there is something nearly exactly as you described in the game already. you can summon players to help you past difficult levels or assist with bosses. If you are having a lot of trouble making it past the sewers or blighttown or something just look for a sign and get help. People who bother to put a sign down for the hardest levels generally know exactly how to help you.

I used to show people exactly where the invisible platforms are in the crystal caves, for instance.

 

[Korten12]

Nothing much to say here except thank god for someone with some [REDACTED] common sense! If you pay $60+ for a game you SHOULD be able to get your money's worth by being able to complete the game!

Not when a game is advertised as brutally hard, even so far as it's slogan is literally "PREPARE TO DIE."

Then there is NO excuse to go into the game expecting an easy mode. They warned you, and you didn't listen.

 

[IronMit]

The theory that easier modes for games don't have to effect hardcore gamers is one i used to hold but no longer do.

Nintendo's approach look brilliant for that particular game.

Dark souls;

There is online play; do easy mode and dark souls mode fight each other? Won't easy mode have an advantage if they can get access to better weapons by killing side quest bosses earlier?

Mass effect 3;

I initially said look 3 modes ;action, rpg and story. This is brilliant they won't streamline the game then for rpg mode.
But I was wrong, and they did.

Hitman absolution;

radar i can't turn off unless it's on purist which was shoved on last minute so the game isn't balanced on it anyway



Easier modes for games don't have to mess it up for hardcore players. But the alarm bells start ringing because the approach a lot of developers take messes it up in most cases.

The streamlined systems for most games can't be turned off because it's part of the game so that is also an automatic fail.

Deus ex: HR wasn't too bad. 'Turn off highlight objects' on any difficulty. All of a sudden I have to explore a bit more rather then see what highlights from afar

 

[Sidmen]

How about you realize the game is not for you? Like another poster pointed out the games marketing is "PREPARE TO DIE."

That means your going in for a beating. If they were to make an easy mode, they would have to change all of the levels (not just stats), and remove what makes Dark Souls unique. Just raising stats wouldn't make some of the traps, and levels any easier because they aren't designed to be played easy.

So don't ***** at the game for not having an easy mode, when it was MARKETED to not have one and already announced not to have one. It's like going to an art movie and complaining it doesn't have enough action and that it should change so that it has explosions so you don't get bored and can see the whole movie.

Dark Soul's is a niche, it shouldn't have to accomadate others because they aren't patience enough to beat the game and play it as intended.

Game isn't for me? That's cool, so how exactly do I get my money back then?

Oh, I see - I can't.

When I buy something for as much money as a Video Game, I expect to be able to get something out of it. When I don't get anything out of it, like Dark Souls, I start thinking that the designer needs to fix this problem. I am not wrong in wanting to get enjoyment out of a game that I paid money for, and which I can't send back.

I rented Dark Souls from a Red Box for a day, the opening areas were difficult but fun so I decided on buying it. As I continued onward, everything fun about the game dribbled away to be replaced by aggravation and tedium. I eventually had to quit because it became too boring to bother with.

Of course, almost all of my problems could've been solved if the game got rid of those dumb-ass white magical airlocks so that I could use the terrain to my advantage instead of going "whelp, here's an area you've never been to before - now fight this stupidly hard creature for my amusement."

 

[Korten12]

How about you realize the game is not for you? Like another poster pointed out the games marketing is "PREPARE TO DIE."

That means your going in for a beating. If they were to make an easy mode, they would have to change all of the levels (not just stats), and remove what makes Dark Souls unique. Just raising stats wouldn't make some of the traps, and levels any easier because they aren't designed to be played easy.

So don't ***** at the game for not having an easy mode, when it was MARKETED to not have one and already announced not to have one. It's like going to an art movie and complaining it doesn't have enough action and that it should change so that it has explosions so you don't get bored and can see the whole movie.

Dark Soul's is a niche, it shouldn't have to accomadate others because they aren't patience enough to beat the game and play it as intended.

Game isn't for me? That's cool, so how exactly do I get my money back then?

Oh, I see - I can't.

When I buy something for as much money as a Video Game, I expect to be able to get something out of it. When I don't get anything out of it, like Dark Souls, I start thinking that the designer needs to fix this problem. I am not wrong in wanting to get enjoyment out of a game that I paid money for, and which I can't send back.

I rented Dark Souls from a Red Box for a day, the opening areas were difficult but fun so I decided on buying it. As I continued onward, everything fun about the game dribbled away to be replaced by aggravation and tedium. I eventually had to quit because it became too boring to bother with.

Of course, almost all of my problems could've been solved if the game got rid of those dumb-ass white magical airlocks so that I could use the terrain to my advantage instead of going "whelp, here's an area you've never been to before - now fight this stupidly hard creature for my amusement."

Then it's your own fault. They didn't make the game wrong, YOU aren't it's target audiance. Same with books and movies, they have genre's and subgenre's for a reason. Not everything appeals to everyone and Dark Soul's isn't for you. It's not the developers fault, it's your own fault. We have the internet you can google these things, you can see whether or not it's for you. If you did, still bought it and then blamed the developers. You have only yourself to blame.

Also how does "PREPARE TO DIE," hell the PC version is literally called: DARK SOULS: PREPARE TO DIE EDITION, = Must have an easy mode? If it did, they wouldn't have advertised it as such.

 

[Elois]

Game isn't for me? That's cool, so how exactly do I get my money back then?

Oh, I see - I can't.

When I buy something for as much money as a Video Game, I expect to be able to get something out of it. When I don't get anything out of it, like Dark Souls, I start thinking that the designer needs to fix this problem. I am not wrong in wanting to get enjoyment out of a game that I paid money for, and which I can't send back.

I rented Dark Souls from a Red Box for a day, the opening areas were difficult but fun so I decided on buying it. As I continued onward, everything fun about the game dribbled away to be replaced by aggravation and tedium. I eventually had to quit because it became too boring to bother with.

Of course, almost all of my problems could've been solved if the game got rid of those dumb-ass white magical airlocks so that I could use the terrain to my advantage instead of going "whelp, here's an area you've never been to before - now fight this stupidly hard creature for my amusement."

Your poor impulse control and apparent disregard for your expendable income is no reason for a niche game to appeal to you just because you couldn't play it. Its a silly self entitled argument that makes no sense.

Everything about the marketing that went into this game explained that it would be very challenging and not for everyone, its your own fault you didn't listen.

 

[anthony87]

Don't like Easy Mode? Don't play Easy Mode.

Why exactly isn't that obvious?

 

[Elois]

Don't like Easy Mode? Don't play Easy Mode.

Why exactly isn't that obvious?

This would be apparent if you read the thread.