Jimquisition: Emotions, Polygons, and Ellen Page

[Waffle_Man]

Good God Jim! You've made a room full of people stare at me with weird expressions because of how loud I was laughing.

I hope you're happy.

 

[solidsamus926]

Heavy Rain was great.

Though, The Walking Dead is oddly similar, game-play wise. Maybe, in it's goal as well. Yet, it's also leagues better, and stands as literal proof that Cage is wrong. Graphics don't mean bananas, when your writing is solid. Hell, think of Chrono Trigger, too. That game does it all, character arcs, characterization, emotion, great writing, and they're, like, sprites from the Super Nintendo days (Not to sound offensive, I'm just trying to highlight the whole hardware gap he's touching on, I actually find the game's art style to be rather charming).

He needs better writing to illicit what he...allegedly wants from all of us, not technology. Please, Mr. Cage, bad writing makes my skin crawl, and it's pretty common.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Tetris has more emotion then Heavy Rain.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Hmm, I liked the subject matter, and it was a good parody, but I think it'd have worked better if perhaps the David Cage mockery was done for maybe the first minute or so, then the rest as normal.

It was good, I just felt the joke was wearing a little thin by the end.

pretty much this exactly

I was about done with this episode halfway through. Yeah, it was ok at first, but once the point is conveyed, dragging it out really got old fast.

That's part of the joke.
Sometime you have to drag things out for certain jokes.
Like David Cages obsession with polygons.
I think this is the last mention we will see of him in any episodes.

 

[LazyAza]

If ever their was a human being literally crammed too far up their own ass, it's David Cage. I watched a lets play of Heavy Rain a few months back and I gotta say, wow, like I knew it was bad but eeeesh. I've seen god knows how many crappy movies that weren't as crap as that "game".

 

[lockgar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXD0hCvtX4

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I don't have enough polygons to reply with a meaningful emotional answer... :/

 

[Roggen Bread]

That was rather disturbing.

And rather not insightful. Waiting for a better next week.

 

[TAdamson]

That was hilariously brutal..... While I'm all in favour of making fun of David Cage you might of gotten more mileage out breaking character after 3 minutes and pointing out how all the polygons in the world mean fucking nothing if your plot and characters inhabit the nonsense planet.

Then again you could just link your Destructoid review of Heavy Rain.

 

[likalaruku]

Jim: "...Well defined characters...."
::Shows cover for Queen of the damned::

That was a real knee-slapper.

What's that accent supposed to me? Italian?

Jim: "General apathy, not being very bothered by anything, add slight confusion, tempered with a general lack of motivation to do much about it."

Why, that's the perfect description of every ID photo I've taken since grade school.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Some examples from Heavy Rain, spoilerish obviously:

Spoiler

So there's a mystery going on about a serial killer who kidnaps and murders children. There's a big red-herring about one of the main characters possibly being the killer mostly linked to these weird blackouts he has. So a couple of things:

1. Killer has been active longer than he's been having his weird blackout problem.
2. Dude doesn't make any sense as a suspect because he was in a fucking coma last time the killer was active.

Apparently have an alibi for all but one of the serial killers killings makes you the perfect suspect.

Furthermore the only purpose these blackouts have is to set him up as a possible suspect (again despite the fact this makes literally no sense). Once his kid is kidnapped they literally just magically stop happening and are never really talked about again except as proof that the dude is the killer. The plot thread is started then completely forgotten about.

There's also the most retarded cop ever - he goes in to question a psychiatrist about one of his patients - pretty much the first thing he starts doing is trying to beat information out of him without any real provocation. The shrink isn't a suspect or anything.

So much of the plot hinges on terribly presented narrative, and cliched caricatures of characters. Random thug the two police officers want to question? Of course he's going to lead them on a big chase and attempt to murder them despite the fact that he has nothing to do with anything, and the police literally have nothing on him - because that's totally the way human beings actually act.

The thing is - its not all bad, individual scenes can be well written and executed, but for the few great moments, to me at least, it felt like most of the time he was just trying too hard to make a scene exciting or emotional. And when you try to put the whole story together into a cohesive narrative it just falls apart. The more you think about things the less sense things make - and that's rarely a good sign when you're talking about a murder mystery story.

More than the cockamanie writing, it was the flat-out bad acting that got me. Casting french actors who obviously can't perform in english; JAYson... JaySON.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Some examples from Heavy Rain, spoilerish obviously:

Spoiler

So there's a mystery going on about a serial killer who kidnaps and murders children. There's a big red-herring about one of the main characters possibly being the killer mostly linked to these weird blackouts he has. So a couple of things:

1. Killer has been active longer than he's been having his weird blackout problem.
2. Dude doesn't make any sense as a suspect because he was in a fucking coma last time the killer was active.

Apparently have an alibi for all but one of the serial killers killings makes you the perfect suspect.

Furthermore the only purpose these blackouts have is to set him up as a possible suspect (again despite the fact this makes literally no sense). Once his kid is kidnapped they literally just magically stop happening and are never really talked about again except as proof that the dude is the killer. The plot thread is started then completely forgotten about.

There's also the most retarded cop ever - he goes in to question a psychiatrist about one of his patients - pretty much the first thing he starts doing is trying to beat information out of him without any real provocation. The shrink isn't a suspect or anything.

So much of the plot hinges on terribly presented narrative, and cliched caricatures of characters. Random thug the two police officers want to question? Of course he's going to lead them on a big chase and attempt to murder them despite the fact that he has nothing to do with anything, and the police literally have nothing on him - because that's totally the way human beings actually act.

The thing is - its not all bad, individual scenes can be well written and executed, but for the few great moments, to me at least, it felt like most of the time he was just trying too hard to make a scene exciting or emotional. And when you try to put the whole story together into a cohesive narrative it just falls apart. The more you think about things the less sense things make - and that's rarely a good sign when you're talking about a murder mystery story.

More than the cockamanie writing, it was the flat-out bad acting that got me. Casting french actors who obviously can't perform in english; JAYson... JaySON.

SHAWN SHAWN SHAWNNNNNNNN SHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN AHAN SHANNNNNNNN
SHAWNNNNNNNNNNNNN SHAWNNNN

And that is heavy rain everyone now you don't have to watch it or play it.

 

[Bombchucker]

So where was Jim this week?

 

[Abomination]

Sorry Jim but that joke went on far too long.

We essentially watched you bring a horse in, shoot it, beat it with a bat for awhile - which at the time we were still laughing but it was steadily decreasing. At around about the 4 minute mark people would have been shifting uncomfortably in their seats as you continues to pummel the dead animal. At 5 minutes people would have stood up and left. 6 minutes the theatre was empty. 7 minutes your bat breaks.

This didn't need a 7 minute episode, Jim.

It's dead, Jim.

 

[Gunner 51]

Hmm, I liked the subject matter, and it was a good parody, but I think it'd have worked better if perhaps the David Cage mockery was done for maybe the first minute or so, then the rest as normal.

It was good, I just felt the joke was wearing a little thin by the end.

pretty much this exactly

I was about done with this episode halfway through. Yeah, it was ok at first, but once the point is conveyed, dragging it out really got old fast.

I'll agree with you on this. I started to lose interest in the four minute mark.

As a constructive criticism, I thought the episode was too padded out and the joke just went on for too long. Salient points could have easily been made regarding emotional moments in gaming without the use of high definition graphics - but they were wasted on the overly long ad hominem attack on Mr Cage.

 

[Lovesfool]

You forgot to mention Willem Defoe. It's not just Ellen Page. It's Willem Defoe as well.

Emotions... 'n stuff...

 

[Kuro Serpentina]

snip

Kinda confused: you make out like that's a dig at Jim's onion when you just completely agreed with him...

I do agree with what he's saying, its just I'm not a fan of how he's saying it
He's laying it on a tad too thick

 

[FFP2]

This was amazing. That part at the end... truly the height of Jimquisition

David Cage really came off like a piece of shit in the PS4 conference. TWD had awful graphics/"polygons" and it was more emotional than anything he's ever come up with.

 

[nathan-dts]

Implying that visuals don't help convey emotion. One look at LA Noire shows what new technology can do.

Extremely offputting uncannyvally? It reminded me of young Jeff Bridges weird rubber mouth as Clu.

If you can identify whether or not someone is lying or telling the truth, solely by their face, then you Team Bondi succeeded with their game.

 

[Lightknight]

Hah, the entire video without breaking character. Nice commitment.

This didn't need a 7 minute episode, Jim.

The line of thinking that graphics allow more freedom to express emotion is silly and is something that has plagued game design since developers started considering good graphics a substitute for actual substance. This needs entire seminars and lectures, let alone a 7 minute mockery of it.

Ultimately, more polygons allows developers to express emotion more easily. It does not allow them to express "more" emotion. Graphics are already to the point where a full range of emotion can be expressed so this polygon pursuit is just to get more firmly on the other side of the uncanny valley. Either way, Cage is wrong. It's just lazy developing to think you need more polygons to achieve the kind of emotion you're going for and he needs to be called on it. Kudos to Jim for doing it.

The future of graphics is bright. Independant studios are already getting to the point where they can design realistic games with passable (albeit less polished) graphics. With the next generations of game engines making it even easier to develop quality objects easily, I look forward to a time where good graphics are mundane and the storyline is the only thing that makes a game successful. Regardless, artistic games are already there. Their graphics are the same they'd be ten years from now and they're every bit as successful at expressing emotion.I believe Jim has already pointed out the phenomena though. Eventually realistic graphics will be just as valid years in the future, perhaps we're nearly there. But that has nothing to do with "more" emotion.