Jimquisition: Emotions, Polygons, and Ellen Page
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Recommended Videos
That was hilariously brutal..... While I'm all in favour of making fun of David Cage you might of gotten more mileage out breaking character after 3 minutes and pointing out how all the polygons in the world mean fucking nothing if your plot and characters inhabit the nonsense planet.
Then again you could just link your Destructoid review of Heavy Rain.
Then again you could just link your Destructoid review of Heavy Rain.
Jim: "...Well defined characters...."
::Shows cover for Queen of the damned::
That was a real knee-slapper.
What's that accent supposed to me? Italian?
Jim: "General apathy, not being very bothered by anything, add slight confusion, tempered with a general lack of motivation to do much about it."
Why, that's the perfect description of every ID photo I've taken since grade school.
::Shows cover for Queen of the damned::
That was a real knee-slapper.
What's that accent supposed to me? Italian?
Jim: "General apathy, not being very bothered by anything, add slight confusion, tempered with a general lack of motivation to do much about it."
Why, that's the perfect description of every ID photo I've taken since grade school.
More than the cockamanie writing, it was the flat-out bad acting that got me. Casting french actors who obviously can't perform in english; JAYson... JaySON.cynicalsaint1 said:
SHAWN SHAWN SHAWNNNNNNNN SHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN AHAN SHANNNNNNNNCasual Shinji said:
SHAWNNNNNNNNNNNNN SHAWNNNN
And that is heavy rain everyone now you don't have to watch it or play it.
Sorry Jim but that joke went on far too long.
We essentially watched you bring a horse in, shoot it, beat it with a bat for awhile - which at the time we were still laughing but it was steadily decreasing. At around about the 4 minute mark people would have been shifting uncomfortably in their seats as you continues to pummel the dead animal. At 5 minutes people would have stood up and left. 6 minutes the theatre was empty. 7 minutes your bat breaks.
This didn't need a 7 minute episode, Jim.
It's dead, Jim.
We essentially watched you bring a horse in, shoot it, beat it with a bat for awhile - which at the time we were still laughing but it was steadily decreasing. At around about the 4 minute mark people would have been shifting uncomfortably in their seats as you continues to pummel the dead animal. At 5 minutes people would have stood up and left. 6 minutes the theatre was empty. 7 minutes your bat breaks.
This didn't need a 7 minute episode, Jim.
It's dead, Jim.
I'll agree with you on this. I started to lose interest in the four minute mark.Ralen-Sharr said:
As a constructive criticism, I thought the episode was too padded out and the joke just went on for too long. Salient points could have easily been made regarding emotional moments in gaming without the use of high definition graphics - but they were wasted on the overly long ad hominem attack on Mr Cage.
I do agree with what he's saying, its just I'm not a fan of how he's saying itGabanuka said:
He's laying it on a tad too thick
If you can identify whether or not someone is lying or telling the truth, solely by their face, then you Team Bondi succeeded with their game.MrBoBo said:
Hah, the entire video without breaking character. Nice commitment.
Ultimately, more polygons allows developers to express emotion more easily. It does not allow them to express "more" emotion. Graphics are already to the point where a full range of emotion can be expressed so this polygon pursuit is just to get more firmly on the other side of the uncanny valley. Either way, Cage is wrong. It's just lazy developing to think you need more polygons to achieve the kind of emotion you're going for and he needs to be called on it. Kudos to Jim for doing it.
The future of graphics is bright. Independant studios are already getting to the point where they can design realistic games with passable (albeit less polished) graphics. With the next generations of game engines making it even easier to develop quality objects easily, I look forward to a time where good graphics are mundane and the storyline is the only thing that makes a game successful. Regardless, artistic games are already there. Their graphics are the same they'd be ten years from now and they're every bit as successful at expressing emotion.I believe Jim has already pointed out the phenomena though. Eventually realistic graphics will be just as valid years in the future, perhaps we're nearly there. But that has nothing to do with "more" emotion.
The line of thinking that graphics allow more freedom to express emotion is silly and is something that has plagued game design since developers started considering good graphics a substitute for actual substance. This needs entire seminars and lectures, let alone a 7 minute mockery of it.Abomination said:
Ultimately, more polygons allows developers to express emotion more easily. It does not allow them to express "more" emotion. Graphics are already to the point where a full range of emotion can be expressed so this polygon pursuit is just to get more firmly on the other side of the uncanny valley. Either way, Cage is wrong. It's just lazy developing to think you need more polygons to achieve the kind of emotion you're going for and he needs to be called on it. Kudos to Jim for doing it.
The future of graphics is bright. Independant studios are already getting to the point where they can design realistic games with passable (albeit less polished) graphics. With the next generations of game engines making it even easier to develop quality objects easily, I look forward to a time where good graphics are mundane and the storyline is the only thing that makes a game successful. Regardless, artistic games are already there. Their graphics are the same they'd be ten years from now and they're every bit as successful at expressing emotion.I believe Jim has already pointed out the phenomena though. Eventually realistic graphics will be just as valid years in the future, perhaps we're nearly there. But that has nothing to do with "more" emotion.
The issue is that Cage has been going on massively about how much better/emotional/etc the next gen will be due to graphics (probably because Sony beat him up until he agreed to do it, but we can't be sure). Of course, better graphics can be a useful tool for better audience sympathy with on screen characters, but its not necessary for a emotional, dramatic story or tale, as I'm sure your aware.Beryl77 said:
For people who think graphics == better emotions, I disagree; one of the best games I've played in terms of characters (emotions/development/etc) and story was Anachronox, an old game now that looked like crap even when it came out.
Edit:
TWD == The Walking Dead?FFP2 said:This was amazing. That part at the end... truly the height of Jimquisition
David Cage really came off like a piece of shit in the PS4 conference. TWD had awful graphics/"polygons" and it was more emotional than anything he's ever come up with.
If so, I disagree about "awful" graphics - it didn't have good graphics, but it was a choice style that meshed well with its source material
Fallacy #1: Conveying emotions in videogames requires photo-realistic facial animation.
Fallacy #2: "Emotion" in videogames = lots of crying and drama
Emotion has more to do with character build-up, believability, the ability to relate to said characters, and tough moral dilemmas and decisions.
One of the most meaningful, i.e. "emotional", videogame scenes in recent memory was from the Valley of Defilement in Demon's Souls. [minor spoiler warning] After your character fights his/her way through the Valley of Defilement, a disgusting, wretched place filled with greif and vile monstrosities, you finally encounter a fallen priestess who was unwillingly turned into a demon, to the point that she loathes her own existence. Even despite her own self-loathing, her loyal guardian, a brave knight, remains determined to protect her from you, a character set on vanquishing all demons. The sheer desperation of these characters given their circumstances, and your own duty to kill characters you can sympathize with, is far more "emotional" than any dramatic, movie-like cutscene I've seen in a videogame, and it manages to accomplish this with minimal dialog and while keeping control in the player's hands throughout (i.e. no cutscenes whatsoever).
Good storytelling and game design with an emphasis on gameplay and writing, NOT cinematics, will trump all other attempts at conveying an "emotional" experience in this particular form of media, IMHO.
Fallacy #2: "Emotion" in videogames = lots of crying and drama
Emotion has more to do with character build-up, believability, the ability to relate to said characters, and tough moral dilemmas and decisions.
One of the most meaningful, i.e. "emotional", videogame scenes in recent memory was from the Valley of Defilement in Demon's Souls. [minor spoiler warning] After your character fights his/her way through the Valley of Defilement, a disgusting, wretched place filled with greif and vile monstrosities, you finally encounter a fallen priestess who was unwillingly turned into a demon, to the point that she loathes her own existence. Even despite her own self-loathing, her loyal guardian, a brave knight, remains determined to protect her from you, a character set on vanquishing all demons. The sheer desperation of these characters given their circumstances, and your own duty to kill characters you can sympathize with, is far more "emotional" than any dramatic, movie-like cutscene I've seen in a videogame, and it manages to accomplish this with minimal dialog and while keeping control in the player's hands throughout (i.e. no cutscenes whatsoever).
Good storytelling and game design with an emphasis on gameplay and writing, NOT cinematics, will trump all other attempts at conveying an "emotional" experience in this particular form of media, IMHO.
Well, I liked Indigo prophecy.
It did cause a strong emotional reaction in me, mostly uncontrollable laughter.
Both Heavy Rain and Indigo prophecy had the problem that he could set up an interesting mystery, but had no idea how to explain it, so you get a very strong beginning and a mystery that falls apart once you get to the answers.
So it's pretty much like LOST.
It did cause a strong emotional reaction in me, mostly uncontrollable laughter.
Both Heavy Rain and Indigo prophecy had the problem that he could set up an interesting mystery, but had no idea how to explain it, so you get a very strong beginning and a mystery that falls apart once you get to the answers.
So it's pretty much like LOST.