Jimquisition: Fish, FEZ, And Supporting Art Over Artists

[remm2004]

I was sure you were going to talk about EA and its new title of worst company, but anyway.
It can be really difficult to separate art from the artist when you automatically make a connection. In my case I was really enjoying super meat boy until I heard about how much of a moron its creator was, after that I just couldn?t play without remembering all I read about him.
So I now have a policy of only paying attention to the game and completely ignore who made it.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

It's a good point, one I've not really thought about. You often see one person as the face of a game or a company, one wrong move on their part could seriously put a lot of people off. I suppose I'm one of the people who tends to buy it whether or not I think I'll enjoy it, but now I've had it exposed to me I'll probably think about it.

It's almost an impossible choice to make, for the once dick that is the face of the game could leading a team of selfless, open minded philanthropist who exude auras of kittens and rainbows.

Hey Jim, is listening to Michael Jackson pedophilia or not?

I don't see how listening to any kind of music can be or support a natural psychiatric disorder.

 

[Undeadpool]

I feel like I should have something to say about this issue since I got Fez and I think it's a great game, but I can't help but find that I'm sitting in the "I don't care" camp. The game is great and very charming, and nothing about the game has any kind of racist tones to it. Fish and his team made a great game, and none of the profits of the game are going to go towards any kind of "anti-Japanese" cause or anything. And to say he's racist just because he said all Japanese games suck is stupid. He didn't say that Japanese people were bad or inferior in any way, he just said their games are rubbish. As stupid as that point of view is, he's allowed to have it. It's not hurting anyone. Giving him money for his game doesn't mean you're contributing to the payment of some kind of torture machine/siege engine that he's going to invade Japan with. His views are completely inconsequential. The game is really fun and interesting, and that's all that should really matter.

It wasn't just that, it was the fact that he said ALL games from Japan suck, including classic games. He wasn't even asked about Japanese games, he was asked by a Japanese developer some other question about that movie he was involved with and his response was "Your countrys games suck."

Plus, it has a chance of hurting localization, if you were a big wig at a Japanese country and all you were hearing was about how US developers were bashing your games, would you want to localize them?

He did backtrack and said current Japanese games suck (which to a degree they do but so does some American games) so I might get this. Also, a lot of people pointed out the gameplay is a lot like Super Paper Mario, a current Japanese game.

I know he said all Japanese games suck, that's what I said. And so what if he did? I still don't think it matters that much. And I hardly think that any Japanese publisher who isn't already coming out with retarded reasons not to release their games in the West is going to do it just because one pretentious arrogant dick says he doesn't like their games.

Its not just him, its Bioware, Tommy Tallarico, the people from X-Play and the guy who made Braid who have also said it.

In fact, I'm still harrased over what Bioware said whenever I say I like JRPGs I get flak for it and the reason is "Bioware says that they're bad, so you have shitty taste in games."

Or Tomonobu Itagaki at the very same convention that Fish made his "infamous" charge. The funniest part: Itagaki basically said the exact same thing and in fact went MUCH further.

I wonder how many people are protesting Fish's not-racism who enjoyed "Ghost Writer" or "The Pianist." Just saying: everyone picks their battles.

 

[II2]

Separating art from the artist can be very tricky, and it mostly comes down to where you draw the line and how much compromise you're willing to give. In some cases I can let some assholish behavior slide as with Alan Moore...

Alan's never struck me as an asshole. An eccentric with strong opinions, sure, but he's always seemed like a very thoughtful and principled man. For all his 'take my name off this hollywood bastardization of my work' tantrums that makes the press, it's often overlooked that he literally stands by that conviction at great personal cost, as he forwards his portion of the royalties entitled to him to the respective illustrator he's collaborated with on the work (Dave Loyd and Dave Gibbons for V4V and Watchmen, respectively)... He might be a thorn in the side of 'the system', but he's always been very cordial, polite and respectful in dealing with fans, friends and peers - EG: though he vehmently disagreed with Frank Millers position on the Occupy movement, he was very even handed and neutral in speaking on the topic.

Just curious what he did that rubbed you the wrong way?

------------------------

ON TOPIC:

It's very true that in this society it's almost impossible to exist without supporting people you don't like. As money changes hands, you will inevitably, indirectly throw funds into streams of revenue going towards people or establishments you would not willingly support. This is simply unavoidable in the economic reality of the world today. I agree with J. Sterling's point on the positive effect of raising consumer awareness on a broader scale, though, despite the arguable insignificance of personal moral boycotts.

Additionally, I think it's interesting that indie developers exist as much higher profile personalities than many of the people who make up larger teams in the 'commercial' game industry. Cliff Bezinski or David Jaffe or Peter Molyneux may be figureheads, but exist more as the stars supported atop an entire Christmas tree of developers, engineers, artists and PR. To the contrary, indie developers (generally) are much closer to a 1:1 relation to their projects and products in terms of public perception - that they ARE the developing body and the main recipient of it's success (technically true or false as it may be).

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

If all he said was "present day Japanese games suck", that's nothing to crucify him for imo.

I'll bet most of us say worse things than that on a daily basis, we're just not accountable for it.

EDIT: Eh, after looking at his following comments, he's not exactly a pleasant guy, but great things come from assholes all the time.

 

[Smertnik]

I couldn't care less about people who create art I enjoy. Well, the personal stories and interviews do interest me quite often but the personality of people involved doesn't influence my opinion of their creation in any way. Just as I don't buy stuff/like it more because I find the artist sympathetic, I won't boycott or stop enjoying a video game/book/movie/whatever just because the artist turns out to be a dick. For all I care they can very well deny the holocaust all day and eat babies for breakfast.

 

[Spud of Doom]

So polite today, Jim. What's gotten into you? Also lately I've noticed if I listen to podtoid then Jimquisition will just be a more well-argued summary of something I've already listened to.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Wow. Umm... So Doug is so devout a Christian that he's a homophobe?

... The Neverhood suddenly stopped being as endearing as it used to be now. I'm not even sure about Earthworm Jim anymore.

 

[android88]

Never heard of the bloke till this video. FEZ is a nice idea but there are other games I'm more willing to spend my money on. As to the support of art over artists, yeah I'd agree with that, I still buy EA games even though I hate the online pass system.

Speaking of EA, how the hell did EA win the worst company in America and how the hell did it beat every financial institution in the United States? Did everyone forget the financial crisis?

 

[Podunk]

...So Inafune can say Japanese game sucks, but when the Fez guys does it then that's not okay?

 

[Chris Errett]

i wont buy another of Peter Molyneux work coz i find the whole of fable to be a very shit game

 

[PunkRex]

"there is no such thing as bad press" I hadn't hear of fez before the controversy and now I'm considering getting it because it looks good and I don't care about Fish.

I sort of agree, not to mention it seems he just had abit of a rag on the current state of the Japanese games industry, not exactly that bad a thing. I'd like to know EXACTLY what he said though, gotta have all the info on a issue first, you know?

 

[RaikuFA]

...So Inafune can say Japanese game sucks, but when the Fez guys does it then that's not okay?

Inafune was constructive, Fish's initial comments were just trolling. Thats what people were upset about.

 

[kaizen2468]

Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's obvious to everyone but me until now, but the more I listen to Jim, the more I'm starting to think he's gay. Not that I care, I love the big jackass but I can't shake the feeling lol.

 

[LadyDeadly]

wow , jim makes even more sense after 3 rum and cokes. amazing!!!!!1
thank god for jim
Anyhow this fish guy seems so be a arse. But jim makes a good point,id still think about buying fez regardless of what fish has done, he didnt make it byhimself after all.
fish.
weirdname

 

[Dr. Crawver]

perhaps one of jims best episodes to date. I just really enjoyed listening to him on it

 

[Zom-B]

To be honest just about every creator of note has been the same way, it takes strong positions to create things of worth. With western society largely split 50-50 between the left and right wings, it's not surprising that your seeing a lot of creators coming from the right wing camp, even if the left wing generally dominates the media. To an extent what your seeing with Phil Fish is the pendelum starting to swing back the other way, with people who don't entirely follow the left wing ideas of political correctness increasingly speaking their minds despite this.

I'll also say that creators are almost always arseholes. You'll find that a lot of the great writers, painters, and creators throughout history are not only complete dillweeds by today's standards if you read about them, but were also on the fringes of society during their own time. If you judge people by having opinions, even in their work, that you don't agree with, chances are your likely to wind up appreciating very little. What we're seeing here is a matter of the current counter culture (yes, right wing is the new counter culture, due to the left wing having gained media prominance) increasingly speaking out, which is why awareness of this kind of thing and what creators think (which isn't always PC) is making the news.

I don't agree with you and a lot of what you're saying is the old idea of the "tortured genius" or the idea that you have to be crazy or an asshole to be creative.

First of all, for example, Orson Scott Card's Mormon faith and alleged homophobia (I've read about the whole thing and it's hard to say if he's truly homophobic or just unwilling to accept it. Regardless.) have nothing at all to do with Ender's Game, which is a really good book, that is really well written. Simply having strong position on something doesn't equate to creativity.

Second, just because we only hear about the crazies, the assholes, the bigots in creative fields doesn't mean that there aren't many genial, friendly and liberal people plying their craft without offending people or acting insane.

Perhaps you'll disagree, but I imagine that for every "dillweed" creative type you find, I can name one that isn't. All we may find out is that all sorts of people are creative in different ways and it doesn't take mental illness or xenophobic attitudes to be successful in an artistic or creative field.

As for your ida of the pendulum swinging, I agree, somewhat. It does swing, but each swing towards the right, towards bigotry and racism, towards radical conservatives to fundamental religion is lesser than the last one and of shorter duration. I've read some interesting theories that the current antics of the Republican Party in the USA are sort of a last gasp of crazy before their rhetoric is shouted down by a majority of accepting, liberal and reasoned people who are fed up with their ideas.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Jim is possibly one of the biggest assholes that can back himself up with reasonable, intellectual arguments. He's probably up there with Yahtzee... actually, no, I'd say he's probably above Yahtzee because while Yahtzee seems to still kinda be stuck in a rut where he still believes that JRPGs will simply never interest him, as well as certain genres altogether (which is a respectable opinion, I suppose), Jim is the person to go out there and try to reach a type of middleman that looks at the argument and tries to find an even compromise. Despite being a bit of an asshat at times, he's probably one of the most sensible and reasonable people on the Escapist, ironically.

And as for this, I do agree with him on a certain degree. While it is your money to spend wherever you want to, I do think it's a bit selfish and ignorant to not buy a game simply on the word of one person alone. Companies like Ubisoft are understandable why you'd boycott their services; their DRM is absolute crap and we, as a collective medium, should tell them that instead of funding their recent ventures into it, but to not buy something like FEZ, a game I hadn't even heard of until Jim mentioned it, and looked really interesting and unique from his footage alone, simply because the creator seems to be a bit of a prick, seems a bit silly.

After all, when you think about it, there's a lot of big pricks in the world and in history. Charles Lindbergh and Henry Ford are possibly two of the most iconic figures in American history, and both of them were huge antisemites and possibly Nazi sympathizers. Am I going to hold that against them? ... Possibly yes, but that doesn't mean I'm going to discount their achievements in the world.

 

[SanguineSymphony]

He chose to open his mouth... Whatever he gets is his own fault. Fuck em. He's a grown man and probably understands the concept of being diplomatic. He chose not to engage in that manner and I chose not to engage his game.

Oh and I don't think he's racist. Just a dumbfuck not worth dealing with.

Instead of calling the guy a racist, why not try to refute his point about the Japanese industry?

Easy.

Platinum, Atlus, From Software, Mario Galaxy.

To be fair though he never bothered to clarify his point. He never pointed out what about the entirety of Modern Japanese Game design was flawed.