Jimquisition: Gamer Guys

[Raso719]

I wish to hell some gamer girl would come up to me at a convention and talk games, anime or cosplay with me and we used that as a jump off point to become friends or more. Please gamer guys, don't screw this up for me..... because this sort of thing TOTALLY actually happens at cons.

 

[Baresark]

I had to read 800 comments before understanding this video. I get it finally... I was just confused the entire viedo. Also, I have that add covering my comment box, so if my spelling is all messed up, it's not my fault.

 

[Goliath100]

. ...Why the game industry need to make more literature adaptations (aka Metro 2033) and fewer horrible adaptations of movies.

That's an odd assumption - why would the industry need more adaptations rather than more original IP?

Your question is somewhat malformed. I tried to say the industry need more literature adaptations instead of movie adaptations, not rather original IP. The answer of why I think that is simply that a adaptation of a novel is an adaptation of a story, not estetics that so many movie adaptations are. It will simply be a shortcut to a greater focus on meaningful narratives. That and Metro 2033 is a pretty sweet game.

 

[thebakedpotato]

I could do all that... Or I could... Ya know... Play video games. Something that I enjoy doing.

And I certainly believe you do, the one calorie of energy it took to type something on the escapist is evidence enough of that. That fact that you are even willing to debate this shows you like video games. There are people out there who wouldn't even expend that much effort, they just don't care. Even I am that way with other things.

I have seen some football games in my life, but I don't really give a damn about it. I only watched them because I was at a friends house and that's what everyone was doing. I couldn't tell you anything about football, because I didn't care to find out about any of it, still don't. I'm not a football fan. My friends - on the other hand - just can't stop talking about it, they even have fantasy football leagues. They're football fans.

I guess I just don't see the point of categorizing people into groups and generating anger and hate towards them when I could be spending that time playing video games and enjoying myself is all.

In the end they're people with free will and money to buy games with. And there's not a goddamned thing I could do to stop them in a free society, even if I wanted to. At the end of the day, sacrificing time and energy getting mad at complete strangers seems a waste of time.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Spoiler: The first thing.

Although to be honest like a lot of these sorts of things I can never tell whether or not the people who originally made the comments are just stupid or trolling.

Spoiler: My stuff.

Question about this specifically.

Why does it matter?
If a person is acting like an ass (to the point were you can't tell if they are acting, or just really an ass) how does that make them much different from a real A-hole?

I apologize, but the whole "oh they're just trolls/trolling" thing just kind of sounds like it's saying we shouldn't care about the bad behavior. Kind of like the old saying "Oh, boys will be boys", ya know?

If they talk like a jerk, act like a jerk, and sound like a jerk. What's the difference really between them and a jerk?

Sorry to bug ya about it. It's just been there for a bit like a bad itch.
May you have a good day, and a better week.

Spoiler: Your stuff.

Spoiler: You wrote it, you don't need to look...

Spoiler: ....please don't look....

Spoiler: I SORRY! :( I broke it...

Nah! It's fine. Just kidding.

For the sake of whether or not we should care, it makes no difference whatsoever. A person being racist/sexist etc. because they are, or simply to wind people up makes absolutely no difference to the way people should think of them. The fact is they are deliberately being an unpleasant person, so whether or not they "mean it" doesn't matter.

The difference it does make is for discussing problems and how to fix them. People on the internet are frequently unpleasant. For example at the recent Wimbledon tournament (Britain's largest Tennis tournament for those who don't know) one of the commentators said something about one of the female players not being a "looker". The response as we might expect was not a good one, the guy was criticised everywhere for the comment and rightly so. However some comments seemed to go even further than what he said. Some people said she was so unattractive that she wouldn't even be raped.

So are tennis fans sexist? Is there an underlying problem with sexist behaviour amongst the tennis community? Or were those people behaving that way due to anonymity and because they can get away with it?

The reason for why the difference between being one of those things and pretending is relevant, is that any attempt to "fix" them isn't going to work if they are not actually racist, sexist, homophobic and so on. If a person is saying nasty things because they gain enjoyment out of hurting peoples feelings rather than because they are racist (and so on), then trying to educate them about why racism is bad isn't going to do anything.

It's an example I have used before, but in work places they sometimes have courses designed to teach people about appropriate behaviour. For example years back when I applied to work in a supermarket they had a section dedicated to educating people about the correct ways of interacting with disabled people.

If a person in a work place was being nasty to a disabled person, but just because they were nasty, not because the person was disabled, then sending them on a course to educate them about the correct treatment isn't going to help in the slightest, because the problem isn't that they are bigoted against the disabled, the problem is with their treatment of other people in general.

Simply put, we shouldn't be looking at "fixing sexism in the gaming community". We should be fixing the need some people have of making others lives less pleasant. Gaming doesn't have a problem with sexist attitudes. People with anonymity have an outlet for their sadism with no repercussions and are taking full advantage of it.

If we want to fix these problems, we need to look deeper than a handful of guys making idiotic comments. We need to deal with the cause, not the symptom, and to be honest, that's never going to happen. Because the fact of the matter is that not all people are nice, they never have been and they never will be. That's not to say we shouldn't deal with it as and when we can, but people need to be realistic about this kind of thing.

I apologise in advance for any rambling and/or terrible grammar, punctuation and so on. I am enjoying a week off of work and a part of that involves going through my small collection of spirits.

My main problem is that I simply haven't seen anything like what he talks int he video actually happen. Giving the benefit of doubt, this is either a geographical thing and much more prevalent elsewhere, or he's just plain fucking wrong. Still, I'm totally willing to believe it's a geographical thing.

Maybe because Slovenia, or the Balkans specifically still lives in the past. You're still an outcast if you're a gamer around here. No matter what your gender is. No matter what your job is. I mean what the fuck is wrong with you, you should be out there either making mad money or fucking everything that moves (or making mad money so you can throw it around so that everything that moves will want to fuck you). That's still the mentality here.

You could also be describing England. Although gaming is accepted in the sense that people on television and radio will admit to doing it, there is still that "Oh, I am such a loser for admitting it" kind of attitude around it.

Yeah. I kind of get what ya mean with the last part. Same here too, but it's getting better.

Anyway, you bring up some interesting stories, and some good points. I see what you're getting at. That said, I think getting the gaming community to become more inclusive over time isn't just possible, but rather something that is bound to happen.

But I digress. I have to disagree with you somewhat on the point about "how to fix the problem". (Also, I think we have had this conversation before. If so, sorry for repeating myself.

With you're example of the people who make the sexist/racist comments not because there racist/sexist, but rather just trying to hurt another person's feelings. I would argue that putting them in such a person in a behavior course even if they aren't "really" racist/sexist, could still help them to change for the better, and yes COULD is the operative word.

That said, most of the "PC crap" comes down to just trying to be nice to people. Yes, some take it overboard, but most find the middle. And you would be surprised what talking with someone can do for a person.

I had this one teacher for my Race, ethnic, and diversity studies class who once had a small group of racist skin heads sit in on one of her class lectures. It went as you would expect at first. Lots of interruptions and what not. Until my teacher started to ask them about them. In short, one of them would make a comment, she would ask who made it, find them(it was in a large auditorium), and keep asking why they said what they said. Why they think like that, what let them to think like that, and so on and so on. Until they just shut up.

Then at the end of the lecture, she saw one of the skin heads go up to one of her black students and hug her before leaving. (Granted the girls first response was to as the teacher if see was bleeding anywhere, but don't worry she was fine.) What I'm saying is sometimes even people with strongly held beliefs can change. So why not people who are just being jerks? The classes may not make them not sexist/racist as they already aren't overt bigots, but it could teach them to be a bit nicer. (Again, yes, COULD is the operative word, but it still operates in a positive direction from time to time.)

Again a good time to you.

(Side note: if you are "inebriated" while writing, so far I can't tell. Seems good to me.)
=w= b (<- Thumbs up face)

 

[SonicWaffle]

Will my nerd credentials expire when my pant size drops below a certain number? Will I then be subjected to these "checks" because I'm just "too cute" to be accepted on face value?

No, no. We won't throw you out. We'll just force you to sit a monthly check-up test to prove you haven't become one of the normals. You know, naming all the FFVII summons or reciting the steps to obtain the Biggoron Sword.

If you can't do it, then your credentials will expire, and you'll have to go away and be cool and popular.

 

[SonicWaffle]

. ...Why the game industry need to make more literature adaptations (aka Metro 2033) and fewer horrible adaptations of movies.

That's an odd assumption - why would the industry need more adaptations rather than more original IP?

Your question is somewhat malformed.

Yeah, so's your face!

Ooooh. Sick burn.

I tried to say the industry need more literature adaptations instead of movie adaptations, not rather original IP. The answer of why I think that is simply that a adaptation of a novel is an adaptation of a story, not estetics that so many movie adaptations are. It will simply be a shortcut to a greater focus on meaningful narratives. That and Metro 2033 is a pretty sweet game.

My point remains the same - why does the priority need to be adaptation at all? If novels work better than movies as the basis for a video game, then shouldn't something designed with a video game in mind be a better fit than either? Rather than adapting books because they might work better, we should be coming up with new ideas that will work better because that's what they were written for.

 

[thebakedpotato]

Will my nerd credentials expire when my pant size drops below a certain number? Will I then be subjected to these "checks" because I'm just "too cute" to be accepted on face value?

No, no. We won't throw you out. We'll just force you to sit a monthly check-up test to prove you haven't become one of the normals. You know, naming all the FFVII summons or reciting the steps to obtain the Biggoron Sword.

If you can't do it, then your credentials will expire, and you'll have to go away and be cool and popular.

I thought we were the cool and popular now?

 

[Lilani]

No, no. We won't throw you out. We'll just force you to sit a monthly check-up test to prove you haven't become one of the normals. You know, naming all the FFVII summons or reciting the steps to obtain the Biggoron Sword.

If you can't do it, then your credentials will expire, and you'll have to go away and be cool and popular.

Hmmm, I see. Are any of these negotiable? Like, can I exchange the FFVII summons for the FFXI ones? Or instead of how to obtain the Biggoron sword, explain the difference between how Homunculi are made in the original series of Fullmetal Alchemist and how they are made in FMA: Brotherhood?

 

[Darmani]

Gamers are outcasts, or were, they built an enclave

I'm more of a Brotherhood of Steel guy, myself.

Now Cute Girl comes along, I mean does her her, lipstick absolute pinnacle of trendy cute.
This is Not An OutCast, what the hell is she doing here and why?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's probably to play videogames. What I don't get is the logical leap from "that is an attractive girl" to "that is an attractive girl, she must be here because she thrives on the attention of self-designated outcasts, what a fake". It doesn't really follow - I just can't see why the next step is to assume that this hot girl can only be bothering with the hobby for attention when there are probably easier ways.

Its the same thing as Samus Aran a player avatar getting all this attention because she's a female with a gun while simultaneous we have this thing about gamers misrepresenting strong independent women.

I don't follow you...

Not only is she not an Outcast but she can leave at any time. Maybe she's just looking good AND nerdy. So you ask just to be safe/sure.

Anyone can leave at any time. Playing video games isn't something inherent to our DNA that we can't stop doing in case it kills us.

Why? Only OUTCASTS play games here. We game here because we're outcasts and she's not just not one-of-us she's categorically from appearance never going to HAVE To be one of us, likely never went through the same things. I mean if a white couple joins a black church I assure you they will both stand out AND get talked about.

Samus Aran part...
Mainly the frustration with male nerd gatekeeping and the response to it by those against it. Gatekeeping IS wrong and a problem, to a degree. Most girls in gaming I know are perfectly legit. Others just dabblers, others are tangentially related (they like cosplay and its between conventions and this social gathering seems okay and they know who they cosplay as). They are all accepted. BUT also there is natural part where someone who who looks and acts say totally against nerd type joins. Lets say Brad Pitt got on an interview and professed his gamer credentials. It would seem ridiculous, at least to me. Male nerds are doing that to females who have been IN the culture and the vast swaths joining in recently. At least part of the initial rejection is they are new and different and not like them. And its underlining all response to them (women are reacting as a collective, experiencing as a collective, responded to as a collective).
If someone looks like they could hack it as normal and NOT socially rejected it feels off they just take a shirt FROM the socially rejected. They look like they are part of group that's trendy. So not just socially accepted but usually with recognition and social power/standing.

No one has to stay, but generally nerds leave nerd culture by "growing out of it" or ostracization. This person is just sampling. Also don't act like fairweather or faddish interest doesn't happen. Or that large amounts of female participation can break along familiar lines (ooh goggle at male model, cosplay, etc) And PART of the nerd culture is dealing with NOT being socially approved of as a whole and definitely not first pick in the eyes of women. So women who are likely first pick in the eyes of men, or higher up among their own gender, associating with them hits a skeptical response.

The prejudice is that it keeps happening and women are judged harshly for joining the boys when women have collectively realized. "HEY I've been hear as long as you have and deserve not to be treated as an invader, an alien, or an ornament to my male friends/boyfriend." And are making this known.

Guys have realized women are here and are changing things to more suit their interests and desires.

IF you desire more women in that social aspect, sure, that's great.

But also its another way to bring a social interaction and context you deliberately avoided or were shunned from INTO the subculture you went to. And women can bring things that are different from before.

Also if people can admit the hipster glasses are an affectation (and people need glasses to see) why is being put off by super hot girl posing sexily with consumer electronics (the new Car acceptable guy thing) with some reserve. Even extra creditz pointed this out in their early videos. Men feel pandered to and manipulated, women feel isolated. Booth babes and other things tie into this because its part of the experience of dealing with females in a context that feels insincere. And again there is the personal experience of the only interaction with the trendy cute girl being on their terms and interest and usually for something. Not shared interests or desperation due to being a sub-something. If you're fine with that, you're fine with that. But other people who joined the community not even longterm but just to escape from that. . .not liking having to deal with that same shit HERE.

Similar, again to say joining an open but predominantly black congregation. People will want to vet or just, hell, figure your deal because you seem THAT out of place.
Then add in the activities that can change when mostly mainstream girl joins or more likely to be into.

"Can I have that conversation with the person who looks like she would be anywhere but here? I mean she has that tshirt but.. uhm okay. I'll test her see if she's legit." That's assuming no cosplay, no glompme signs, no cross-interest stuff.

 

[JimB]

I get the impression that Jim might be gay...

Is he? I'd have sworn he mentioned being married to an American woman and having adopted her son. I could very well be misremembering that, though; I tend not to pay attention to the sexual orientation of anyone I'm not actively trying to have sex with.

Anyway, I like the video a lot. I'm aware of the fake gamer girl controversy, but I've never observed it myself, so the jokes didn't land as viscerally as they might have done. Still funny, though.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Will my nerd credentials expire when my pant size drops below a certain number? Will I then be subjected to these "checks" because I'm just "too cute" to be accepted on face value?

No, no. We won't throw you out. We'll just force you to sit a monthly check-up test to prove you haven't become one of the normals. You know, naming all the FFVII summons or reciting the steps to obtain the Biggoron Sword.

If you can't do it, then your credentials will expire, and you'll have to go away and be cool and popular.

I thought we were the cool and popular now?

Honestly, I'm pretty confused. On the one hand people are telling me that we're the cool kids now, and on the other people are saying we're a group of outcasts whose interests are still looked down on by the majority of society. It might be easier to think of it in terms of the latter - at least that way I can pretend that I'm uncool because of social prejudice rather than because I'm actually pretty lame!

Hmmm, I see. Are any of these negotiable? Like, can I exchange the FFVII summons for the FFXI ones? Or instead of how to obtain the Biggoron sword, explain the difference between how Homunculi are made in the original series of Fullmetal Alchemist and how they are made in FMA: Brotherhood?

Good lord, no. What is this, affirmative action? You want us to make things easier for you? We're not filling quotas here - either you're a proper gamer and you can recite every line of Half-Life 2 dialogue from memory, or you're just another of those poseurs trying to steal our hobby away.

 

[Darmani]

Gamers are outcasts, or were, they built an enclave

Now Cute Girl comes along, I mean does her her, lipstick absolute pinnacle of trendy cute.
This is Not An OutCast, what the hell is she doing here and why?
Its the same thing as Samus Aran a player avatar getting all this attention because she's a female with a gun while simultaneous we have this thing about gamers misrepresenting strong independent women.

Not only is she not an Outcast but she can leave at any time. Maybe she's just looking good AND nerdy. So you ask just to be safe/sure.

Only this keeps happening And there have been big women in fandom for YEARS. Its insulting and prejudiced.

Your profile says you're from America, and if that's the case then I'm afraid you really need to work on how you write. Because if you reread this word for word, exactly as you punctuated it, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

What are you trying to say here? That it's alright to check to see if someone is a "real" nerd because they aren't fat? I'm fat, but I'm also running 2.5 miles four times per week. Will my nerd credentials expire when my pant size drops below a certain number? Will I then be subjected to these "checks" because I'm just "too cute" to be accepted on face value?

I will try.

Hmm. You believe I endorse this viewpoint for not vilifying it? OR I see it as understandable but wrong?

 

[tonka7794]

LUL ATTENTION, EVERYONE! I have penis and I <3 videogames! XD great episode jim.

 

[SonicWaffle]

I get the impression that Jim might be gay...

Is he? I'd have sworn he mentioned being married to an American woman and having adopted her son.

"Marrying an American woman" is actually slang on the gay scene, and it means "endlessly fantasizing about David Boreanaz". "Adopting her son" means...well, it's not exactly work-safe, but you can find it in the footnotes to the most recent edition of The Gay Agenda if you're interested.

 

[thebakedpotato]

Will my nerd credentials expire when my pant size drops below a certain number? Will I then be subjected to these "checks" because I'm just "too cute" to be accepted on face value?

No, no. We won't throw you out. We'll just force you to sit a monthly check-up test to prove you haven't become one of the normals. You know, naming all the FFVII summons or reciting the steps to obtain the Biggoron Sword.

If you can't do it, then your credentials will expire, and you'll have to go away and be cool and popular.

I thought we were the cool and popular now?

Honestly, I'm pretty confused. On the one hand people are telling me that we're the cool kids now, and on the other people are saying we're a group of outcasts whose interests are still looked down on by the majority of society. It might be easier to think of it in terms of the latter - at least that way I can pretend that I'm uncool because of social prejudice rather than because I'm actually pretty lame!

So am I... I go out and wear my company T Shirt to see if I can get a free drink. All that happens is I end up talking to the bartender about what games they like.

 

[Phasmal]

Why only OUTCASTS play games here we game here because we're outcasts and she's not just not one of us she's categorically from appearance never going to HAVE To be one of us. I mean if a white couple joins a black church I assure you they will both stand out AND get talked about.

Are you being held in gaming against your will?
Never `having` to be one of us? As if it's some terrible thing to resort to?
You don't sound like you enjoy it.

You know, you might have had a point if only conventionally attractive women who are new to gaming got this fake shit, but they don't. I'm kind of a plain-jane myself, and not new at all to gaming- and I was an OUTCAST too, and I still get this crap.
And it has to stop.

 

[Yuuki]

Sometimes I think that Jim completely forgets who his audience are. They are Escapists looking for some clever wit and a laugh or two or intellectuals looking for some sound knowledge/opinion being showered on an interesting topic. They are NOT goddamn teenage mouth-breathing Call Of Duty enthusiasts who constantly spout their hatred for gamer girls and therefore need a fucking lecture (no matter how "ironic") on how to behave. I got absolutely nothing out of this video, not even a laugh. I just said to myself "Oh, I see what you're doing here Jim" and then turned it off.

I mean what's next, a video about why homosexual people should be given equal rights as everyone else? Or a video explaining how girls can be just as intelligent as boys?

 

[JarinArenos]

Oh dear god... even at their worst, the arguments here are sunshine and kisses compared to what they could be. I made the mistake of browsing onto some articles related to the topic over on PAR and... I couldn't take it. The level of blind idiocy... even the people I disagree with here, I can typically have a discussion with.

So, to all the people I disagree and argue with here... thank you.

Honestly, I'm pretty confused. On the one hand people are telling me that we're the cool kids now, and on the other people are saying we're a group of outcasts whose interests are still looked down on by the majority of society. It might be easier to think of it in terms of the latter - at least that way I can pretend that I'm uncool because of social prejudice rather than because I'm actually pretty lame!

You have a large group (geeks) that have traditionally been outcasts, but someone (media companies) recently realized that there's a TON more geeks than was stereotypicaly acknowledged (due to many hiding said tendencies because of outcast status), and started widely catering to them. This happened alongside a sort of geek "revolution" with the geek culture coming to the same realization, resulting in the massive expansion of conventions and the like. Unfortunately, the perception of being an outcast continues, as does a strong (unhealthy) "Us vs. Them" mentality. So you have a group that has become a major target group of media ("cool kids", but only in the money-sink sense), that still gets horribly defensive about anything of theirs being questioned or any perception of threat, regardless of reality.

 

[SonicWaffle]

So am I... I go out and wear my company T Shirt to see if I can get a free drink. All that happens is I end up talking to the bartender about what games they like.

I did once have a barman compliment me on my Penny Arcade t-shirt!

Well, I say compliment, he told me he wasn't going to mock me for ordering cider because Penny Arcade is awesome. Same thing, right?

Which company, out of interest?