Really, on further thought, this utterly baffles me. If we're a formerly-shunned group, now coming into prominence, wouldn't we want people claiming to be geeks? It's the people who like games but hide it - acting like gaming is still shameful - that we should have a problem with.
Jimquisition: Gamer Guys
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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You know, I'm curious.
I agree with Jim, that the gatekeeping and boys club mentality has got to go. And I certainly see subtle problems of guys treating women differently, and judging fellow guys geekiness rather leniently, while applying much more strict tests to females, more frequently, and extrapolating wildly from that. But where exactly are all the guys who actually believe and express a problem with women specifically and openly? Sure, you see an occasional troll, and an occasional poorly written article, but I rarely see a large number of unironic people openly criticizing the whole gender. I always see sexist guys couching there sexism in arguments that seem reasonable on the surface, often times not being discriminatory by being categorically different to women, but by matters of degrees, slightly scoffing at a guy who hasn't played Zelda, and outright exile for a girl who can't name some obscure piece of trivia. Am I lucky, in that I see the problem in its more subtle and nuanced forms? Or is there really hoards of gamers out there with a girls-are-icky mentality, not covering there misogyny with so much as a shred of plausible deniability? And I mean by community, not individuals.
Also, Does anyone else have a video ad for some stupid reality TV show that pops up at the hin of a mouseover, and that blocks half of the text field, making writing a response extremely annoying?
I agree with Jim, that the gatekeeping and boys club mentality has got to go. And I certainly see subtle problems of guys treating women differently, and judging fellow guys geekiness rather leniently, while applying much more strict tests to females, more frequently, and extrapolating wildly from that. But where exactly are all the guys who actually believe and express a problem with women specifically and openly? Sure, you see an occasional troll, and an occasional poorly written article, but I rarely see a large number of unironic people openly criticizing the whole gender. I always see sexist guys couching there sexism in arguments that seem reasonable on the surface, often times not being discriminatory by being categorically different to women, but by matters of degrees, slightly scoffing at a guy who hasn't played Zelda, and outright exile for a girl who can't name some obscure piece of trivia. Am I lucky, in that I see the problem in its more subtle and nuanced forms? Or is there really hoards of gamers out there with a girls-are-icky mentality, not covering there misogyny with so much as a shred of plausible deniability? And I mean by community, not individuals.
Also, Does anyone else have a video ad for some stupid reality TV show that pops up at the hin of a mouseover, and that blocks half of the text field, making writing a response extremely annoying?
I had a good laugh, this was a great episode XD.
Makes the whole "fake gamer girl" thing some people go on about look even more stupid when you flip it, hopefully this helps make them stop going on about it.
Makes the whole "fake gamer girl" thing some people go on about look even more stupid when you flip it, hopefully this helps make them stop going on about it.
The line between "trolling" and "actual shameful belief" is a hard one to judge on the internet. But really, just go browse the comments on other sites when this topic comes up. The Escapist at its worst is milder than a lot of other game news sites at their best.Xanadu84 said:
With the lion, or the old man?WaitWHAT said:After this video, I doubt he'll need much persuasion.Imp Emissary said:
Also,
Yup, the flipped argument still holds water for me. I just hate fake people I guess.
That is assuming that "fake gamer girls" is even really that much of a problem. I know they are out there, but I doubt it's as much of a problem as some have said it is. I've encountered enough fake gamer guys for sure, but they are fake in different ways that girls are accused of being fake.
That is assuming that "fake gamer girls" is even really that much of a problem. I know they are out there, but I doubt it's as much of a problem as some have said it is. I've encountered enough fake gamer guys for sure, but they are fake in different ways that girls are accused of being fake.
well his initial inquiry into gaming was forced which is where the comparison came from. I think he was reaching for a tip but who knows. either way its still not cool to judge people who are trying to fit in even if they fail at it.Silentpony said:
This episode infuriated me and aroused me at the same time, it's a confusing feeling.
STOP THE PRESSES!
Seriously, it's just sad at this point.
Y-y-you mean TV is misrepresenting my interests!?Monxeroth said:
STOP THE PRESSES!
Seriously, it's just sad at this point.
Funny video but ,honestly, I've never heard anyone talk like that. All of my friends online and off love the idea of women showing an interest in our hobby - even if it isn't entirely genuine.
Maybe I just don't frequent the wretched hives of scum and misogyny where this kind of talk goes on. Maybe I'm just out of touch...
Maybe I just don't frequent the wretched hives of scum and misogyny where this kind of talk goes on. Maybe I'm just out of touch...
Many perfectly reasonable complaints about guygamers with no particular passion for video games, as they are about girlgamers with no particular passion for video games.
I'm glad you lampshaded the !@#$ out of that intro. XD That made it worth it.
Also, on the actual topic...Anyone whining about fake gamer girls and stuff needs to get over it.
I haven't met any. I rarely see girls gaming on line, and when they do they're usually at least semi competent. Hell my GF is a big gaming fan, although she's not what you'd call hardcore.
Also, on the actual topic...Anyone whining about fake gamer girls and stuff needs to get over it.
I haven't met any. I rarely see girls gaming on line, and when they do they're usually at least semi competent. Hell my GF is a big gaming fan, although she's not what you'd call hardcore.
You have to look for them.Xanadu84 said:
You really have to look for them.
If you don't want to dig deep you will usually find these kinds of people on poorly worded articles or just articles focused on gender treatment within games in general.
From my experience on Kotaku- Any article related about Anita and any gender related articles written by Patricia tend to awaken a few of them in the woodworks.
However where they openly talk about this stuff? You would have to go to the deepest parts of Reddit and other "bro" centric websites and find the groups that relate guys and gaming.
I have only seen screenshots of the comments there on Tumblr and Facebook.
Honestly I have never been there myself, and I don't plan on sacrificing my brain cells on them either.
They are for the most part funny...if it weren't for the fact that they are very damn serious about what they are claiming.
Which usually revolves around the evils of "friendzoning"
and as Jim said- The secret agenda of Feminazis "destroying the male space" one activity at a time.
I never understood the "problem" with "girl gamers." I wish I could find a girl who knows anything about gaming or just wanted to play. I mean a girl that like the same things I do would be awesome... near impossible but awesome.
Females have been interested in "geek culture" just as long as males have. The person considered the world's first computer programmer was a woman.Therumancer said:
In any case, "geek culture" is a bullshit idea that should be thrown away like the outdated garbage it is.
And you don't think that many women have been shunned and rejected their entire lives? Women only fairly recently got the right to vote, and they are still regularly the victims of domestic violence. For much of history, they have been considered as the property of men.
In recent history, they have been considered as little more than Barbie dolls or sex objects, and that treatment definitely applies to "geek culture."
Well, that needs to stop, regardless of the underlying cause. The fact that women are frequently beaten by men is not excused if the reason for that beating is male insecurity.
No, women are definitely not newcomers to geeky hobbies, or to rejection and abuse. The majority of the people cracking Nazi codes and building aircraft for the Allied forces during WWII were women. And they never got the respect that the men did.
And who are you to judge somebody's "acceptance" on the type of genitals or chromosomes they have?
Well, that needs to stop, regardless of the underlying cause. The fact that women are frequently beaten by men is not excused if the reason for that beating is male insecurity.
No, women are definitely not newcomers to geeky hobbies, or to rejection and abuse.
UGHHHHH!!! JIM, Bob JUST MADE A VIDEO ABOUT GENDER.
When will this crap be over with? I mean for the love of freaking crapping Pete and whatever other PG obscenities there are! I am SO. FREAKING. SICK of this kind of video.
It almost makes me wish that your point was wrong; so that I'd have more leverage by which to debunk its worth. But no, it's 100% legitimate. But MAN has it been hammered in enough by now.
By the way, I stopped at the 2:24 mark, so if he actually says something original towards the end (which I doubt, because I assume it's one of his countless videos in which he just makes the same point over and over and over and over again in a redundant loop for six minutes), please let me know. Otherwise...
Guess what Jim? The specific complaint you're satirizing is the 'complaint' that comes from guys that are actually very HAPPY to have women playing video games and fantasizing about that meaning that it's because those women are attracted to them. It's selfish and silly, but...
You're making a freaking video about it???
What is the point? What is the point of making a video about random comment trolls? No, not even trolls; just people saying a potentially annoying thing a lot on forums.
How often do you even HEAR this silly fantasy posted or said aloud? This is a bad habit that Bob really suffers from; refuting 'some group opinion' without offering any citation of who it is that's saying it. And I'm sure SOMEONE is saying it; you can find any opinion conceptually possible expressed on the internet. Which raises the question once again: WHAT IS THE POINT?
Jim, please, in your next video, talk about people who post flaws in the video that a dozen people have already pointed out.
Then, do some biting satire on people who arrange their points into numbered lists for no reason.
After that, do a three-parter on users that write all in one paragraph.
...And then stop spreading your genius so thin that it renders you a petty whiner half the time. That really disappoints me and makes you look less brilliant than you are. Don't feel the need to make a video every single week for a show like this.
Or rather, get off of a website like the Escapist. I know this is a really douchebag thing to request, but I've long felt that this site sort of forces internet commentators to become a lot less creative than they really are. You, Bob and Yahtzee seem to have so much potential, that has to be choked down into videos the length of a lunch break.
With love,
Ultra Hammer
When will this crap be over with? I mean for the love of freaking crapping Pete and whatever other PG obscenities there are! I am SO. FREAKING. SICK of this kind of video.
It almost makes me wish that your point was wrong; so that I'd have more leverage by which to debunk its worth. But no, it's 100% legitimate. But MAN has it been hammered in enough by now.
By the way, I stopped at the 2:24 mark, so if he actually says something original towards the end (which I doubt, because I assume it's one of his countless videos in which he just makes the same point over and over and over and over again in a redundant loop for six minutes), please let me know. Otherwise...
Guess what Jim? The specific complaint you're satirizing is the 'complaint' that comes from guys that are actually very HAPPY to have women playing video games and fantasizing about that meaning that it's because those women are attracted to them. It's selfish and silly, but...
You're making a freaking video about it???
What is the point? What is the point of making a video about random comment trolls? No, not even trolls; just people saying a potentially annoying thing a lot on forums.
How often do you even HEAR this silly fantasy posted or said aloud? This is a bad habit that Bob really suffers from; refuting 'some group opinion' without offering any citation of who it is that's saying it. And I'm sure SOMEONE is saying it; you can find any opinion conceptually possible expressed on the internet. Which raises the question once again: WHAT IS THE POINT?
Jim, please, in your next video, talk about people who post flaws in the video that a dozen people have already pointed out.
Then, do some biting satire on people who arrange their points into numbered lists for no reason.
After that, do a three-parter on users that write all in one paragraph.
...And then stop spreading your genius so thin that it renders you a petty whiner half the time. That really disappoints me and makes you look less brilliant than you are. Don't feel the need to make a video every single week for a show like this.
Or rather, get off of a website like the Escapist. I know this is a really douchebag thing to request, but I've long felt that this site sort of forces internet commentators to become a lot less creative than they really are. You, Bob and Yahtzee seem to have so much potential, that has to be choked down into videos the length of a lunch break.
With love,
Ultra Hammer
You got me, I've never met these so called "fake gamer girls", I don't even think I have met any "fake gamer guys" for that matter. How do you even identify these people from other gamers? is it the clothing? the way they talk? If you ask these "fake" people if they know who Zelda is and they don't, doesn't mean anything...it just tells me they probably haven't played the game not that they are fake. I just don't understand how people are even judging "fakeness", is there some kind of book with rules and regulations I am unaware of that lists things that only "real" gamers would know or do?MortisLegio said:
Sounds like its Time for a list of Measured Appropriate Responses to any given Issue. Just so we've got things Clear.
One Group Showing Interest in Another Group: Mild Apathy.
Group Shamming Newcomers: Mild Disgust to those doing the Shamming. Mild Protectiveness to the Shamed.
Group's Activity being caught out as having problematic Thematic/Stylistic Elements: Mild Disappointment to those who created Activity. But otherwise no Enjoyment lost from Enjoying it.
Lack of Genre Diversity*: WHY THE F*** ARE ALL THE MODERN WESTERN RPGS TRYING TO BE MASS EFFECT?! AS IF I WANTED ANOTHER GAME WITH SLOW MOVING MORONS! EITHER GIVE ME A GAME WITH TURN BASED COMBAT, OR LET ME ZIP ACROSS THE BATTLEFIELD LIKE A NINJA! GUYS, THIS IS WHY I'M BUYING JAPANESE LATELY!
(*Personal and Exaggerated Example to get Point Across, No offense intended to Mass Effect, I just don't have the patience for it.)
Company introduces Prohibitive Meassures: "Why Bother even using their Service? It's a Freaking Hastie!"
...
Notice a Pattern?
In an Enlightened Society, Minority Issues, as well as Gender, Sexuality, and other Related issues... Should be the thing we least have to worry about. We should be able to just let others enjoy what they want, and give Honest, Non Hostile Criticism of Franchises and their Flaws, Ideological or not, without Blowing up... While we all yell together and start Yelling about what Bulls*** those seeking a quick Buck are putting us through today, and why we haven't seen certain kinds of things lately.
Unfortunately... I guess we aren't an "Enlightened Society" yet, otherwise we'd be able to just give a whole Crowd of disapproving glares to Bigots and they'd Back off, knowing that Society's Values would be against them.
... That doesn't happen... To any extent as far as I'm aware... So I guess we have a while to go.
(P.S. Being United against Corporate BullS*** is probably a Great way to Unite People. Rage against a Common Foe is just as Good at Uniting People as Love is it seems. As Sad as it is to hear sometimes.)
One Group Showing Interest in Another Group: Mild Apathy.
Group Shamming Newcomers: Mild Disgust to those doing the Shamming. Mild Protectiveness to the Shamed.
Group's Activity being caught out as having problematic Thematic/Stylistic Elements: Mild Disappointment to those who created Activity. But otherwise no Enjoyment lost from Enjoying it.
Lack of Genre Diversity*: WHY THE F*** ARE ALL THE MODERN WESTERN RPGS TRYING TO BE MASS EFFECT?! AS IF I WANTED ANOTHER GAME WITH SLOW MOVING MORONS! EITHER GIVE ME A GAME WITH TURN BASED COMBAT, OR LET ME ZIP ACROSS THE BATTLEFIELD LIKE A NINJA! GUYS, THIS IS WHY I'M BUYING JAPANESE LATELY!
(*Personal and Exaggerated Example to get Point Across, No offense intended to Mass Effect, I just don't have the patience for it.)
Company introduces Prohibitive Meassures: "Why Bother even using their Service? It's a Freaking Hastie!"
...
Notice a Pattern?
In an Enlightened Society, Minority Issues, as well as Gender, Sexuality, and other Related issues... Should be the thing we least have to worry about. We should be able to just let others enjoy what they want, and give Honest, Non Hostile Criticism of Franchises and their Flaws, Ideological or not, without Blowing up... While we all yell together and start Yelling about what Bulls*** those seeking a quick Buck are putting us through today, and why we haven't seen certain kinds of things lately.
Unfortunately... I guess we aren't an "Enlightened Society" yet, otherwise we'd be able to just give a whole Crowd of disapproving glares to Bigots and they'd Back off, knowing that Society's Values would be against them.
... That doesn't happen... To any extent as far as I'm aware... So I guess we have a while to go.
(P.S. Being United against Corporate BullS*** is probably a Great way to Unite People. Rage against a Common Foe is just as Good at Uniting People as Love is it seems. As Sad as it is to hear sometimes.)