Jimquisition: Gamer Guys
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Recommended Videos
You do realize you need to actually ask a question in order for me to dodge it, right? You didn't, like, ASK me anything.Goliath100 said:
Well I guess now I will have to try a different tactic to get Jim to like me, maybe if I feigned an interest in Willem Dafoe
That episode was pretty meh.
I know Jim has strong opinions on this kind of thing as 'm sure we all do, but it always bugs me when the message is so far up it's own ass that I'm left dodging the gusts of hot air coming from a perch of moral upstanding, rather than be given context, a recent event, or some kind of insight.
Heard it all before and they didn't treat the topic so ham handedly. Still looking forward to next week, though.
I know Jim has strong opinions on this kind of thing as 'm sure we all do, but it always bugs me when the message is so far up it's own ass that I'm left dodging the gusts of hot air coming from a perch of moral upstanding, rather than be given context, a recent event, or some kind of insight.
Heard it all before and they didn't treat the topic so ham handedly. Still looking forward to next week, though.
It's about time someone talked about all those faker "gamer guys" out there. It really bothers me when people can't just be themselves, you know? They gotta put up a front just because they want my rock-hard sexbody.
Once again Jim speaks truth to power.
Once again Jim speaks truth to power.
Because we're sure to have plenty of people agreeing gating gamer girls or.. anyone to the hobby is not cool I'll manually thank this.Therumancer said:Awesome special FX Jim.
That said, after I got done laughing I decided I'd toss out something similar to my usual comments about the overall point of this episode.
Like it or not there are differences between guys and girls as far as perception and manipulation goes. In general dudes can be manipulated through media by an attractive girl, or the belief they are dealing with one, far more easily than girls can be manipulated by hot guys. This is why you see so many companies using spokesmodels, filling events with party girls (or booth babes), or in the case of Japan doing things like getting female voice operators to talk in higher pitched tones of voice (attractive for the culture apparently).
The reaction to female gamers is what it is because of how saturated the market has become with women trying to manipulate guys, to the point where it's become expected. This goes so far as to get girls who pretend to hang out at social events, cons, etc... to create a scene and to also lead guys in specific directions. You even see it at Renfaires and such where the people running booths will hire the cutest girls they can get to walk the grounds showing off whatever they are selling, and pretending to be other tourists. When you go to conventions, and not just gaming ones, you see the same exact thing going on. That's not paranoia either, I've met a good number of women who have done this kind of thing. As a matter of public record companies like Ubisoft formed things like the "Frag Dolls" as a
promotional gimmick to sell their products, which is a variation on this.
On a more personal level a lot of girls, especially young girls, learn at an early age to manipulate guys. Whether it's football or video games, a lot of girls feign interest in whatever guys like to get things out of them. This can be anything from a "Camwhore" trying to get guys to buy her things off her Amazon gift list, to a girl trying to get you to do her homework or be her personal free taxi service.
Geeks, by being social outcasts who really wish they could have hot girlfriends, become prime targets for manipulation. Once you get burned a bunch of times, paranoia of a sort sets in, and it's a fairly justified paranoia.
One thing I will point out that rarely enters into these discussion is that the less attractive and/or more freaky a girl is, the more likely she is to be accepted as a gamer or within the geek culture. As a general rule, if a girl could be hanging off the arm of some Jock or successful/socially apt dude, the more suspicious a geek is likely to be of her ultimate motives.
Obscure gaming questions tend to be "touring questions" in cases like this. Sort of like what a real lesbian might do to root out guys pretending to be lesbians online (lol). It's less about there being a correct answer, or an actual test of knowledge, but rather a matter of reaction. To give an example, if someone comes up to a real geek and asks a question about some obscure Japanese video game, he might not know the answer but the way he inquires about it, and mentions ones that he has plays is what is going to make him genuine. When it comes to some geek girl being asked say "what is your favorite Shadow Hearts transformation?" (if such came up) it's less about her having to have played that game to be real, but more about whether she becomes defensive. A "proper" answer for someone that was ignorant would be to say "I haven't played that is it similar to [insert other RPG where you combine and transform characters, like say Soul Fusions in Persona or Demon Combining in other SMT games or whatever)" or something similar that fits
into the conversation.
To be honest one of the reasons so many people (including me) laugh at pics with geek girls making snappy comebacks "Oh I haven't read the entire run of Batman, but neither have you" is that they miss the point in the course of trying to defend the trend. If you like Batman you might not know every bloody obscure thing he's ever done (like say using a Bat-Monster truck loaded with fully automatic tranquilizer guns) but if your a serious fan you can turn something you didn't know into quite a conversation and that's kind of the point.
Ah well, I doubt many people read this far, and very few will agree with me, but that's my two cents.
When it comes to the acceptance of geek girls of all stripes and physical apperance into the "community" (such as it is) it's not something that can be forced. It will happen over time, but understand that the social intertia of decades upon decades of geeks being manipulated by cute girls is not something that is going to disappear comparatively overnight because more girls are gaming and discovering/getting involved in fandom for real.
Stil the reaction to this situation is less "test her" and "suspect her" and more "okay accept and listen" play your doubts close to the chest and open up with dialogue that's inviting a level of discussion you're interested in and of course listen to theirs if it might be of interest.
DON'T insult her, don't mention her dress, ask and don't accuse or just observe (not creeper or at least don't get caught) so you know if she's knew or perhaps familiar and something of a personality.
Yeah guy gamers insecurity and exclusive shunning. BAD stop doing that.
Women who are new, feigning interest, or there more for some social aspect or obligation than actual direct interest, let alone obsessive love of the genre thing to the point they don't have other interests or reasons to be here? Or being a casual fan.. well that NEVER happens and even if it does accept her as an equal especially if she loves slash fic and 50 Shades of Grey (now about how you need to start portraying women in your fiction for my approval or you're sexist troglodyte)
That said, yah, women gamers, women fighting and fps, and other gamers. Who have been gaming as long as you. Yes cosplay feels a bit off in non anime conventions to a degree get over it. Yes women have a right and need to express their opinions on their fiction. If you disagree really don't respond its a convention not a match there is no winning this besides we do have a massive imbalance of male and female voices. Just listen.
Okay, to open this can o' worms anyway.
"Gurrrl gamers" exist. I've seen it happen. It is a thing that happens. But here's the kicker: "Gurrrl gamers" aren't necessarily girls. I've also seen guys with female MMO characters shaking their cute lil' elven tushy on the local mailbox and all the horny snot-nosed teenagers would be tossing gold at them because look at dat even ass and oh she winked at me, I might even get a good cyber-fuck later on if I toss some gold at her.
It's not a girl thing. It's not a girl thing. It's an exploiting female sex-appeal in a digital world, regardless of your real-life gender thing. Because such a digital world seems to be filled with easily seduced males with raging hormones who can't get any release otherwise.
So there, my 0.02? on the matter.
"Gurrrl gamers" exist. I've seen it happen. It is a thing that happens. But here's the kicker: "Gurrrl gamers" aren't necessarily girls. I've also seen guys with female MMO characters shaking their cute lil' elven tushy on the local mailbox and all the horny snot-nosed teenagers would be tossing gold at them because look at dat even ass and oh she winked at me, I might even get a good cyber-fuck later on if I toss some gold at her.
It's not a girl thing. It's not a girl thing. It's an exploiting female sex-appeal in a digital world, regardless of your real-life gender thing. Because such a digital world seems to be filled with easily seduced males with raging hormones who can't get any release otherwise.
So there, my 0.02? on the matter.
If this video wasn?t so funny I would have said its rather pointless, everybody who thinks girl gamers are a problem probably are too stupid to chance their opinion.
It would have been even funnier if you tried to sound like a girl the entire video.
It would have been even funnier if you tried to sound like a girl the entire video.
For one if you do it and bullshitting you are 20/80 likely to be called a pick up artist. Even if your interest is genuine but focused on pleasing the lady... actually that's just it the entire phenomenon is about how it happens when guys do it and feel manipulated. Two its the distinctly stereotypical thing girls bring, cosplay and fashion and with it the loads of regulation there, the "cute" antics like yaoi paddles, glomp me signs and pjsPuckFuppet said:Hello, I'm a person, allow me to debate you on gender ethics in video gaming and contextualise my argument with several paragraph long posts raising roughly the same point repeatedly in succession without actually responding to anything you've said.Legion said:
I hope you enjoy your day
An ex of mine wasn't particularly into video games and took the time to get involved with what I was I playing so we could have more common interests, that interest carried on after the relationship and she (like many people) was suitably annoyed at the ending of ME3. Similarly I took an interest in LotR, not just the films but the books and all associated elements of the overall mythos, for that same woman and that interest has similarly carried on beyond the relationship.Therumancer said:
People tend to incorporate elements of those who they interact with into their personality, its perfectly normal, and rarely in a relationship will you find someone who is just as into everything you're also into. That isn't expressly manipulation, although it might work out that way in some cases I can assure you that that kind of manipulation isn't exclusively restricted to the female gender.
I'm regularly into all sorts of things I have no actual interest in, like theatre or Downton Abbey, if the girl I'm hitting on in that moment happens to be into something that I can easily bullshit an interest in. It works too... so why is somehow a bad thing?
=lingerie as cosplay. The overt sexual focus on the male body andthe simultaneous shame of all the female body exploitation in the hobby and the voices shouting about it. Xbox, one of the few conferences with women on stage playing games and people take trash talk that's good enough I've received it before my Mom personally and blow it up into RAPE JOKE HOW DARE THEY. It DOES kill the exclusive male only fun when you've also got to consciously be more inclusive to the ladies even if its a slight improvement.
Agreed. I love the point he made, showing how ridiculous this "FAKE GURL GAYMRZ NRGH" thing is, but I would have preferred it if he had shot down the dudebros. Failing that, he could of at least stopped being sarcastic and snide and explained rationally why this "FAKE GURL GAYMRZ NRGH" thing is stupid. Same problem I had with the David Cage episode he did.spplmj said:
You're right, all I did was implying that you were using straw men, that's not a question.Jimothy Sterling said:
Boy, the snarky-verse looks like mainstream gaming culture in this universe except with the male and female genders reversed. What a horrible universe! I hope never to be in a world like...HEY WAIT A MINUTE, I THINK JIM MIGHT HAVE BEEN MAKING A POINT ABOUT GAMER CULTURE.
Where is the portal to this alternate world where women are in charge, men are the minority, world peace is at hand, technology triumphs over religion, and where can I buy a house there?
Did you just use a whole lot of words to basically say girls are lying, manipulating, untrustworthy extortionists while simultaneously insulting men for being spineless weaklings who's willpower evaporates the moment they see a girl, making them vulnerable to be wrapped around any girls evil little finger?Therumancer said:Awesome special FX Jim.
That said, after I got done laughing I decided I'd toss out something similar to my usual comments about the overall point of this episode.
Like it or not there are differences between guys and girls as far as perception and manipulation goes. In general dudes can be manipulated through media by an attractive girl, or the belief they are dealing with one, far more easily than girls can be manipulated by hot guys. This is why you see so many companies using spokesmodels, filling events with party girls (or booth babes), or in the case of Japan doing things like getting female voice operators to talk in higher pitched tones of voice (attractive for the culture apparently).
The reaction to female gamers is what it is because of how saturated the market has become with women trying to manipulate guys, to the point where it's become expected. This goes so far as to get girls who pretend to hang out at social events, cons, etc... to create a scene and to also lead guys in specific directions. You even see it at Renfaires and such where the people running booths will hire the cutest girls they can get to walk the grounds showing off whatever they are selling, and pretending to be other tourists. When you go to conventions, and not just gaming ones, you see the same exact thing going on. That's not paranoia either, I've met a good number of women who have done this kind of thing. As a matter of public record companies like Ubisoft formed things like the "Frag Dolls" as a
promotional gimmick to sell their products, which is a variation on this.
On a more personal level a lot of girls, especially young girls, learn at an early age to manipulate guys. Whether it's football or video games, a lot of girls feign interest in whatever guys like to get things out of them. This can be anything from a "Camwhore" trying to get guys to buy her things off her Amazon gift list, to a girl trying to get you to do her homework or be her personal free taxi service.
Geeks, by being social outcasts who really wish they could have hot girlfriends, become prime targets for manipulation. Once you get burned a bunch of times, paranoia of a sort sets in, and it's a fairly justified paranoia.
One thing I will point out that rarely enters into these discussion is that the less attractive and/or more freaky a girl is, the more likely she is to be accepted as a gamer or within the geek culture. As a general rule, if a girl could be hanging off the arm of some Jock or successful/socially apt dude, the more suspicious a geek is likely to be of her ultimate motives.
Obscure gaming questions tend to be "touring questions" in cases like this. Sort of like what a real lesbian might do to root out guys pretending to be lesbians online (lol). It's less about there being a correct answer, or an actual test of knowledge, but rather a matter of reaction. To give an example, if someone comes up to a real geek and asks a question about some obscure Japanese video game, he might not know the answer but the way he inquires about it, and mentions ones that he has plays is what is going to make him genuine. When it comes to some geek girl being asked say "what is your favorite Shadow Hearts transformation?" (if such came up) it's less about her having to have played that game to be real, but more about whether she becomes defensive. A "proper" answer for someone that was ignorant would be to say "I haven't played that is it similar to [insert other RPG where you combine and transform characters, like say Soul Fusions in Persona or Demon Combining in other SMT games or whatever)" or something similar that fits
into the conversation.
To be honest one of the reasons so many people (including me) laugh at pics with geek girls making snappy comebacks "Oh I haven't read the entire run of Batman, but neither have you" is that they miss the point in the course of trying to defend the trend. If you like Batman you might not know every bloody obscure thing he's ever done (like say using a Bat-Monster truck loaded with fully automatic tranquilizer guns) but if your a serious fan you can turn something you didn't know into quite a conversation and that's kind of the point.
Ah well, I doubt many people read this far, and very few will agree with me, but that's my two cents.
When it comes to the acceptance of geek girls of all stripes and physical apperance into the "community" (such as it is) it's not something that can be forced. It will happen over time, but understand that the social intertia of decades upon decades of geeks being manipulated by cute girls is not something that is going to disappear comparatively overnight because more girls are gaming and discovering/getting involved in fandom for real.
Um, I thought geeks guys spent decades upon decades of being ignored and shunned by cute girls. Thought the whole stick was they couldn't get any attention, even fake attention, and the booth babe thing was just a recent development in the last decade as video games became more mainstream. I mean video games went from being a strictly nerdy thing to a dudebro thing joining ranks of cars and sports in the wider male culture. Thus a sudden idea even within gaming culture that casual players play Call of Duty and Halo.Therumancer said:Awesome special FX Jim.
When it comes to the acceptance of geek girls of all stripes and physical apperance into the "community" (such as it is) it's not something that can be forced. It will happen over time, but understand that the social intertia of decades upon decades of geeks being manipulated by cute girls is not something that is going to disappear comparatively overnight because more girls are gaming and discovering/getting involved in fandom for real.
And honestly, it's not a problem with women being in the advertising and promotion of products. It's the marketing teams that believes you guys fall for it. If the women had any real choice when it came to their careers, they'd pick being on the fashion runway over being sexual harassed all day. You guys act like you can't control yourselves when you see a pretty face, the marketers who are dominated by men that think they know everything are the ones that manipulates and abuses you. Your refusal to think, oh she's attractive, check out her butt real quick, now I'll go on my way to the next booth because what she's selling isn't interesting and I know she's just working and doing her job and has to smile because she'll get fired otherwise and she probably doesn't want me to harass her period, especially if I'm not interested in the product she is presenting.