JellySlimerMan said:
Rebel_Raven said:
One of her less wooden presentations, IMO. Still pretty stiff, though. It's hard to sit through her videos most times, and I commend people that do regularly.
The vid barely touches on videogames, and videogame culture which this thread is about.
The largest point seems to be that women want to be included for a safety/control factor, and it may be true for some women, but lets not pretend all of them are like that. I can't deny it happens just because that's the way it is because that's the way -humans- are wired.
We all want inclusion when all is said and done. When there's a group having fun, and we're not having as much fun, we want in. Guys, and gals will both play the poser to try and get in.
That isn't to say all of them are going to be posers. They could be genuinely interested rookies, or knowledgeable people who have flown under the radar.
To be included, representation is going to be appreciated, and clammored for if it's felt lacking.
The thread is about females taking over gaming via abusing the fact they are females and can get away with everything they do thanks to Double Standards at work (well, Female Hypoagency technically). And we can't say anything wrong about them cause, you know, saying that she has her hair on fire would be sexist, no matter how true that might be. Shining examples of this?:
I remember MovieBob (back when he was still sane) mentioning that gaming needs to clean its image, due to a bunch of assholes making us look bad.
GAME OVERTHINKER V33: Building a Better Gamer
But now the assholes of yesterday are gone, replaced by one similar in every single way (saying insults, whining about everyone but himself is to blame for the failure of the campaign, using racial/gender slurs, so on and so forth. We have seen it before) except....they are females now. And we can't do the same we did before to males this time cause......they are females? what is the difference here? an asshole is an asshole no matter what gender you are....except not for Jim and everyone else.
At the same time, the thread is about the people trying to prevent women from getting any sort of foothold.
I feel like the satire in Jim's Vid is aimed to help guys understand what gets lobbed at women time and time again deservedly or not.
I think I need to put forth a disclaimer before I go on. I'm not accusing you of anything, nor am I accusing you of accusing me of anything. There's no implications either way, here.
This isn't a binary battle. There is no black, and white. There's a rainbow of people, opinions, and personalities involved. You shouldn't condemn a person to a lable just because they happen to agree with a movement you're not fond of.
If a woman speaks up about wanting more, and better (Not better than males, better than the status quo of women) representation, and the first thought you get is "Damnit, another one of -her- followers?!" or "Another feminist?!" then, well, kinda try to stop that train of thought? It seems like I run into this pretty commonly. It's a bit of a headache, especially when some people rant on, and on about it when their point is made clear long ago.
I definitely don't blame all men because some men disagree with me. I don't think a guy that's disagreeing with me is one of those MRA people I hear about. Frankly I don't care what they're representing, it's how they present it to me.
I guess I don't clearly see the whole "Oh my god, women are trying to take over games, and will lilely DESTROY US ALL!!!!" because I'm a woman who's not trying to take over, rather I just want more, good female protagonists, and maybe see things get shaken up a little to help shatter conventional wisdoms.
These things that don't necessarily require women being in charge of anything (Though I do say that input from several women for varied opinions couldn't hurt!), rather requiring people being more accepting that there's people who want more female representation in games, and them stop trying to prevent the creation of female protagonists.
Maybe sorta get back the creativity the game industry used to have which sorta got sapped away in some of the by the numbers game creation methods.
That doesn't mean I -want- those women that are trying to put every character in the game in a tuxedo, or pants suits, or ball gowns, or what have you to win. Nor the sort trying to abolish women being in violent situations as the violent, or the victim to win.
I likes me some Mai Shiranui. A violent, compeditive woman who's not as flat as she might seem in writing, in a dangerous scenario wearing, well, do I gotta gotta describe that?
I'm not saying there's no room for a woman like King from the same series as Mai Shiranui, either. King wears a tux in a bartender motif.
I'm a fan of diversity.
At the same time, I'm assuredly not going to throw in the towel, and shut up about wanting better written (compared to some other female protagonists) female protagonists, and more female protagonists than what we get.
I doubt you're saying I am, or intend to imply any of what I said above, I state it for clarity's sake. People often confuse me for a raging feminist.
And, yes, there's assholes on both sides. There's little that can be done about that.
What can be done? Police the assholes in a civil manner, male and female alike. Treat them with civility, kill them with kindness, and so forth. I doubt you're going to come off as a troll if you argue against their point in a kind, intelligent manner, and don't fall into their traps. Easier said than done, I know.
If they call you sexist, racist, bigoted in general, etc. when you've displayed nothing of the sort other than disagreeing with their points in a civil manner, then kindly point out that you're not arguing with them with any less respect than you would someone else. They shouldn't be able to cite anything you've said. If they do, explain, and shut them down.
Of course that's not a free ticket to be what you're fighting, an asshole, just because you're an ass to both genders, especially when you stoop to slurs, and insults. Level heads shall prevail, and all that.
Maybe, just maybe, if you see an asshole on your side of the argument, put the kabosh on them, and tell them to butt out if they're just spewing absurd hate. Easier said than done, I understand, but all they're doing is making the opposition less receptive, and more likely to generate their own assholes to counter, and add those to those that already exist. It can be difficult when you see they're obviously on your side, but are they really helping?
Aknowledge that there's asses on both sides of the argument.
I've no problems saying that both Jim, and Anita aren't the best representatives for trying to get women better representation in videogames. The problem is, who else is there? I'd love to know.
When all is said and done, you -can- disagree with, or call out anyone. The problem arises when you disagree with a person using slurs, threats, and so forth. When people put forth the notion you can't disagree unless you're sexist, bigoted, or something like that, perhaps they're basing it more off the trolls, and uncivilized people... Oh who am I kidding?! There's people who'll stoop to anything to defend their side.
The point is, you can disagree with them, and call them out, and doing so in a level headed manner will work wonders.
Lastly, we all have bad days. Being bombarded by hatred can make people angry. Judging a person when they say something once, is not the greatest idea. They may well be influenced by the BS they've been buried under. It's a matter of how consistent they are in being a bad person, IMO.
Now keep in mind I'm not accusing you of anything. I don't know you, and I think I've really read all of 2 of your posts lately, and you seem pretty level headed.
I doubt I'm following my own advice as well as I'd like, or prescribe. I've said it's often easier said than done in numerous suggestions of mine.
Hell, maybe I am one of the assholes? I don't know, but I know people have tried to talk to be about how passionate I can get on the matter. Still, like your second video states, we can strive to be better.
I doubt that any of what I said is news here, but I feel better having said it.
