Yes, but what I'm trying to say is that the multiplayer function is a totally valid form of replay value. I know I didn't say it very well.Alphakirby said:
Jimquisition: Linearity versus Replayability
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
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I'll be honest. Despite playing FF9 and knowing that Kuja is a guy, I totally mistook those hips for a woman.mireko said:
As for the episode - Yes. Good points and it made me laugh. I chuckled at the 'idiot noise' he made and then laughed out loud when he said "That's what you sound like because you're stupid."
Great stuff. So right. Pretty much all the games I've played through more than once have been solely single player and pretty linear, stuff like Zelda and Okami etc. But although I've enjoyed games like Halo or Bioshock 2 I've never felt like I wanted to play them over. I did play the Halo 3 multiplayer for a while but got bored of it. Only ever played a few matches on Bioshock and wasn't impressed at all. I've never even played an online match on AC:B, never felt the urge, but I'm playing through the first game a second time, and aim to do the second as well. This obsession with obligatory multiplayer needs to stop.
Once again I'm suckered in by an interesting topic only to have to stop the video two minutes in because a little voice in my head is going "Shut up shut up shut UP you obnoxious man!" Even when he's making a good point, even when I agree with him, the delivery is so sloppy and self-important that I honestly don't care if it's supposed to be a joke. What's the phrase, ah yes, thank you Yahtzee: "Intentionally annoying is still ANNOYING!"
It's just really frustrating because I want to be able to listen to the whole argument without starting to twitch but I just can't do it. It's almost physically painful and that makes me especially sad since this week's topic is one I would love to hear a new viewpoint on.
Well, guess I've learned my lesson.
It's just really frustrating because I want to be able to listen to the whole argument without starting to twitch but I just can't do it. It's almost physically painful and that makes me especially sad since this week's topic is one I would love to hear a new viewpoint on.
Well, guess I've learned my lesson.
Not at all he was saying games don't have to only use multiplayer to have replay value in a game and it doesn't need to be shoehorned in because of a trend. While multiplayer is a good idea you wouldn't force the next Silent Hill game to have online multiplayer because it is said to lengthen replay value correct?JasonBurnout16 said:
I agree completely with this episode. I've replayed single player games like Half-Life dozens of times, and often I still end up finding little secrets or tidbits of the story that I missed before.
Also, thumbs up for mentioning FF9. I can't say I care for most Final Fantasy games, but I loved FF9. I even still have a Vivi plushie sitting next to my monitor.
Also, thumbs up for mentioning FF9. I can't say I care for most Final Fantasy games, but I loved FF9. I even still have a Vivi plushie sitting next to my monitor.
Jim, you are not right. Replayability is not about your feelings to the game, it's about new expirience, that the game can provide each time you'r playing it. It's a game-mechanich feachure. Just a characteristic of a game, like shader version. If it hase ways to have different expirience (dificulty level changing, random generated locations, different classes of playeble characters) - it hase replayabiliti, if not - it hasn't.
A lot of people like crapy games, that you woud be sick of in 5 minutes. So... what? Have those games replayability? I liked Bad Company, but will never play it again, and my friend played it 4 times. So have this one replayability? For me - no and for him yes? That just doesn't make sense.
Sory, Jim, but you were talking about personal preferences, not about replayability.
A lot of people like crapy games, that you woud be sick of in 5 minutes. So... what? Have those games replayability? I liked Bad Company, but will never play it again, and my friend played it 4 times. So have this one replayability? For me - no and for him yes? That just doesn't make sense.
Sory, Jim, but you were talking about personal preferences, not about replayability.
he's right... the games with multyplayer and mods and s*** licke that are usualy the ones i don't play that much
Watched this video because MovieBob plugged it in his GO blog.
I agree with the message but I really can't get over the way it's presented. I mean I realise it's an act and all, but if someone was punching me repeatedly, I wouldn't listen much to what they're saying, even if it was the most enlightened thing ever. It's the same thing with verbal abuse. It's hard to focus on what you're saying in between being called a moron for no reason.
I have to say I'm confused about the format you've picked. People generally don't listen as much when you insult them. It seems like you could make people who originally agreed with you start to disagree. Isn't that the opposite of what's you'd want?
Either way, I absolutely agree, although multiplayer can be nice too. I bought Portal 2 only for the co-op and I've played it a few times, although I guess here the co-op IS linear too, and yet quite replayable.
I don't think I'll keep watching your vids though. I would feel masochistic to do so when I can just ask someone else what you said and get the point without the insults.
I agree with the message but I really can't get over the way it's presented. I mean I realise it's an act and all, but if someone was punching me repeatedly, I wouldn't listen much to what they're saying, even if it was the most enlightened thing ever. It's the same thing with verbal abuse. It's hard to focus on what you're saying in between being called a moron for no reason.
I have to say I'm confused about the format you've picked. People generally don't listen as much when you insult them. It seems like you could make people who originally agreed with you start to disagree. Isn't that the opposite of what's you'd want?
Either way, I absolutely agree, although multiplayer can be nice too. I bought Portal 2 only for the co-op and I've played it a few times, although I guess here the co-op IS linear too, and yet quite replayable.
I don't think I'll keep watching your vids though. I would feel masochistic to do so when I can just ask someone else what you said and get the point without the insults.
Holly crap, you must be a mind read Jim ,just few hours ago I was thinking something very similar to this Subject .
When I was younger I could play one Game for months and have the fun of a life time whit it.
When I finally stop playing it, I did it whit a real sense of accomplished, I had play it to the fullest and enjoyed the ride, now whit so many games and different systems to play on, and whit less time then before, because we have to work and live and so on,It seams I play more in quantity then in quality .
But don´t get me wrong today we have excellent games, I have fun ,but its seams we are in a race to go tho the next big hit game and we sometimes (most of the Times ) left the games "half played" for a lack of better word.
When I was younger I could play one Game for months and have the fun of a life time whit it.
When I finally stop playing it, I did it whit a real sense of accomplished, I had play it to the fullest and enjoyed the ride, now whit so many games and different systems to play on, and whit less time then before, because we have to work and live and so on,It seams I play more in quantity then in quality .
But don´t get me wrong today we have excellent games, I have fun ,but its seams we are in a race to go tho the next big hit game and we sometimes (most of the Times ) left the games "half played" for a lack of better word.
if you play something else every time then it's not called REplay is it? it's just playng something new so it's not REplayebility! it's just playebility
It's a sad state of affairs when Game A doesn't sell because all it has is an entertaining and engaging single player experience, but Game B sells millions because it's lackluster and uninspired single player campaign is backed up with a similarly lackluster and uninspired multiplayer mode which allows 12-year-olds to scream profanities at each other over voice chat.
Oh god, he's gone back to trollish "I'm a Fascist dick" routine. Not endearing.
I want him like he was last week, the real Jim: Jim Sterling, not Jimquisition
I think what they say is effectively "It has very little replay value and TO ADD it doesn't EVEN have any multiplayer modes"
Because every time a critic says it has no replay-value, the PR people/fanboys always respond with: "but the multiplayer modes, such great value, blah blah blaaaah"
Critics say the "no replay" AFTER they say the game is barely above average. Games like Bioshock, Half Life 2 and other game that are THAT good are very few and far between, most games that critics are going to review if they are linear then they are not good enough to be worth playing through again.
So inevitably you will hear them say:
"It's linear. It has no online. It has NO REPLAY VALUE!"
This is a big problem for a games like:
-Wanted: Weapons of Fate
-Singularity
-Wet
-Condemned
-Velvet Assassin
-Zeno-clash
-Shank
-Wolfenstein
these are "good" game (not great, not Amazing, just above average) but lose a heck of a lot of their appeal as value wise they are hard pressed to be worth $60.
I agree with you that it was a travesty to waste valuable time on a bioshock 2 multiplayer, if they were worried abotu lasting appeal and value they had many many more options:
-drip feed extra content for FREE (Bioshock 2 did this, but the bonehead decision of charging)
-Sell it at a lower price though the only options on consoles are $60 or $20 on XBLA. Steam is much more flexible could be any price between $3 and $60
-Include a "morality system" that is usually much more an "alternate path" system
I want him like he was last week, the real Jim: Jim Sterling, not Jimquisition
I don't think people ACTUALLY say that.Jim Sterling said:
I think what they say is effectively "It has very little replay value and TO ADD it doesn't EVEN have any multiplayer modes"
Because every time a critic says it has no replay-value, the PR people/fanboys always respond with: "but the multiplayer modes, such great value, blah blah blaaaah"
Critics say the "no replay" AFTER they say the game is barely above average. Games like Bioshock, Half Life 2 and other game that are THAT good are very few and far between, most games that critics are going to review if they are linear then they are not good enough to be worth playing through again.
So inevitably you will hear them say:
"It's linear. It has no online. It has NO REPLAY VALUE!"
This is a big problem for a games like:
-Wanted: Weapons of Fate
-Singularity
-Wet
-Condemned
-Velvet Assassin
-Zeno-clash
-Shank
-Wolfenstein
these are "good" game (not great, not Amazing, just above average) but lose a heck of a lot of their appeal as value wise they are hard pressed to be worth $60.
I agree with you that it was a travesty to waste valuable time on a bioshock 2 multiplayer, if they were worried abotu lasting appeal and value they had many many more options:
-drip feed extra content for FREE (Bioshock 2 did this, but the bonehead decision of charging)
-Sell it at a lower price though the only options on consoles are $60 or $20 on XBLA. Steam is much more flexible could be any price between $3 and $60
-Include a "morality system" that is usually much more an "alternate path" system
He's saying anything good is worth replaying. Come on, you can't have been on the internet for a day without hearing the tons of people who say "No multiplayer? No buy". Maybe you have miraculously avoided all these people, but I assure you: they are LEGION.Kahunaburger said:
I love multiplayer. But it's not the reason I pick up games. I buy games because I'm interested in the story, or the gameplay aspect of it all.
Perfect examples would be, for me anyways, God of War (the first), Okami, Resident Evil 4, Tales of Symphonia, and Halo: Reach. And even if the story of the game isn't all that good I'll still play through the campaign over and over again because the atmosphere is strong, or there are easter eggs or hidden collectibles that I missed on my first or second playthrough.
Perfect examples would be, for me anyways, God of War (the first), Okami, Resident Evil 4, Tales of Symphonia, and Halo: Reach. And even if the story of the game isn't all that good I'll still play through the campaign over and over again because the atmosphere is strong, or there are easter eggs or hidden collectibles that I missed on my first or second playthrough.
