Jimquisition: Linearity versus Replayability

Hitchmeister

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It's a sad state of affairs when Game A doesn't sell because all it has is an entertaining and engaging single player experience, but Game B sells millions because it's lackluster and uninspired single player campaign is backed up with a similarly lackluster and uninspired multiplayer mode which allows 12-year-olds to scream profanities at each other over voice chat.
 

Treblaine

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Oh god, he's gone back to trollish "I'm a Fascist dick" routine. Not endearing.

I want him like he was last week, the real Jim: Jim Sterling, not Jimquisition

Jim Sterling said:
Linearity versus Replayability

Sometimes, Jim wishes he could be you so that he'd also experience the joy of enlightenment each Monday. This week, we look at the mythical struggle between linearity and replayability.

Watch Video
I don't think people ACTUALLY say that.

I think what they say is effectively "It has very little replay value and TO ADD it doesn't EVEN have any multiplayer modes"

Because every time a critic says it has no replay-value, the PR people/fanboys always respond with: "but the multiplayer modes, such great value, blah blah blaaaah"

Critics say the "no replay" AFTER they say the game is barely above average. Games like Bioshock, Half Life 2 and other game that are THAT good are very few and far between, most games that critics are going to review if they are linear then they are not good enough to be worth playing through again.

So inevitably you will hear them say:

"It's linear. It has no online. It has NO REPLAY VALUE!"

This is a big problem for a games like:
-Wanted: Weapons of Fate
-Singularity
-Wet
-Condemned
-Velvet Assassin
-Zeno-clash
-Shank
-Wolfenstein

these are "good" game (not great, not Amazing, just above average) but lose a heck of a lot of their appeal as value wise they are hard pressed to be worth $60.

I agree with you that it was a travesty to waste valuable time on a bioshock 2 multiplayer, if they were worried abotu lasting appeal and value they had many many more options:

-drip feed extra content for FREE (Bioshock 2 did this, but the bonehead decision of charging)
-Sell it at a lower price though the only options on consoles are $60 or $20 on XBLA. Steam is much more flexible could be any price between $3 and $60
-Include a "morality system" that is usually much more an "alternate path" system
 

DustyDrB

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Kahunaburger said:
Warlord Timmy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Wow, so replay value is replay value? Good thing we have the hard-hitting jimquisition to tell us that! Keep aiming for those challenging targets, Jim. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAT15I-QnBY]
>missing the entire point of the video
That video barely had a point. He was saying that linear games can have replay value if they're worth replaying - i.e., replay value = replay value. Wow, video game journalism at its finest!
He's saying anything good is worth replaying. Come on, you can't have been on the internet for a day without hearing the tons of people who say "No multiplayer? No buy". Maybe you have miraculously avoided all these people, but I assure you: they are LEGION.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Agreed Jim. I can't tell you how many times I replayed the Halo games. They're just so damn fun to play.
 

K_Dub

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I love multiplayer. But it's not the reason I pick up games. I buy games because I'm interested in the story, or the gameplay aspect of it all.

Perfect examples would be, for me anyways, God of War (the first), Okami, Resident Evil 4, Tales of Symphonia, and Halo: Reach. And even if the story of the game isn't all that good I'll still play through the campaign over and over again because the atmosphere is strong, or there are easter eggs or hidden collectibles that I missed on my first or second playthrough.
 

Raso719

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I'd accuse you of being privy to some lost arcane or super advanced, alien knowledge but realistically this is just common sense.

Why must most people be so dumb?
 

Dana22

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"To me, replay value comes in whether or not I want to play the game again".

Which is bit illogical, it would make more sense if you would add 'Right after I finish it' or 'In short term' at the endor something similar.

Because replay value is not 0/1, its a VALUE. Modern Warfare 2 (SP) will have lower replay value because of its linear gameplay and scripted encounters, then say Baldurs Gate 2 which has more open gameplay, mechanics and non-linear storytelling.

imho.
 

Treblaine

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iron skirt said:
if you play something else every time then it's not called REplay is it? it's just playng something new so it's not REplayebility! it's just playebility
Yeah, but with multiplayer, don't people fight in the same maps with the same weapons over and over again?

Black ops came with 14 stock maps and 10 minutes per match there is only about 2 hours and 20 minutes of actual "new play" before you start REplaying the same maps, just with different rules and weapons.

If you play through the single-player with different weapons and tactics then that is definitely replay.

But that's not a problem, it is all-right to replay a map in competitive multiplayer as there are so many angles to discover with it. This is just ACCEPTABLE replayability. Still replaying the same old shit. Yeah there are map-packs, 12 new maps for $45 is pretty poor value. That's the price of a whole new game for effectively only 2 hours of new content.

Only a game like minecraft can claim infinite playability with randomly generated world and content that is limited only by your imagination.
 

Treblaine

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DustyDrB said:
Kahunaburger said:
Warlord Timmy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Wow, so replay value is replay value? Good thing we have the hard-hitting jimquisition to tell us that! Keep aiming for those challenging targets, Jim. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAT15I-QnBY]
>missing the entire point of the video
That video barely had a point. He was saying that linear games can have replay value if they're worth replaying - i.e., replay value = replay value. Wow, video game journalism at its finest!
He's saying anything good is worth replaying. Come on, you can't have been on the internet for a day without hearing the tons of people who say "No multiplayer? No buy". Maybe you have miraculously avoided all these people, but I assure you: they are LEGION.
Yeah, well those are idiots. And could you give me a couple of examples of post that say that in these forums, because i seem to have missed every single one.

Jim is talking about the critics and they never say that half-life 2 is a no-buy because of lack of online (thought there actually IS an online mode with HL2: Deathmatch).

They say that about games like Wanted: Weapons of Fate have no replay value and they really lack that. After playing through the short single player you might as well use it as a coaster.
 

emeraldrafael

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I've always thought it was odd when people would tell me I'm weird for replaying persona 3 fes just cause there was no co-op/online and yet those same people would usually spam the same ten songs and say its different. Or how they would basically play the same game on online and either just be better or suck more then the people they're playing against.

How is playing the same class, with the same weapons, with minor upgrades, really that different if its online then if its in a story driven single player.

and usually the answer is just a blank stare and pointing saying it has other people.
 

Gitty101

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Well, it seems that Jim has turned a corner from his first videos - now he is making sense consistently. Congratulations Jim! Keep it up!
 

DustyDrB

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Treblaine said:
DustyDrB said:
Kahunaburger said:
Warlord Timmy said:
Kahunaburger said:
Wow, so replay value is replay value? Good thing we have the hard-hitting jimquisition to tell us that! Keep aiming for those challenging targets, Jim. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAT15I-QnBY]
>missing the entire point of the video
That video barely had a point. He was saying that linear games can have replay value if they're worth replaying - i.e., replay value = replay value. Wow, video game journalism at its finest!
He's saying anything good is worth replaying. Come on, you can't have been on the internet for a day without hearing the tons of people who say "No multiplayer? No buy". Maybe you have miraculously avoided all these people, but I assure you: they are LEGION.
Yeah, well those are idiots. And could you give me a couple of examples of post that say that in these forums, because i seem to have missed every single one.

Jim is talking about the critics and they never say that half-life 2 is a no-buy because of lack of online (thought there actually IS an online mode with HL2: Deathmatch).

They say that about games like Wanted: Weapons of Fate have no replay value and they really lack that. After playing through the short single player you might as well use it as a coaster.
I wouldn't call them idiots. They are just misguided, and probably hypocrites (I'm willing to bet most of them have single-player only games that they've replayed at least once). But they are the reason we see some single-player games get half-baked multiplayer modes (that may or may not divert development time away from the main game. I'm not sure about the validity of that statement, so I won't use it as an argument).

I'm not gonna go hunting for posts, but I can remember some of the games that I heard it for most often here: Enslaved, LA Noire, Portal (and Portal 2), and Mafia II. There are others, but my memory isn't that good.

I did do a Google search (I put in this, so you can follow up if you like: "replay value" site:escapistmagazine.com) and came across this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.291004-games-with-zero-replay-value]. The guy I quoted here even mentions Portal as a game with no replay value in that thread (and I hope this doesn't seem dickish calling him out like that. It's not my intent).
 

TStormer

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Every episode he makes is 20X better than the last. I am really starting to love this guy. Also his voice is far less whiney nowadays.
 

owen4evr

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I agree I was displised to here of Metro:Last Light's multi-player but there is a lot of space to inovate in multi-player.
 

Swifteye

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Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK Jim, here's the thing: I agree with you about 95% of the time, but....listen carefully here...YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACT LIKE A DICK TO BE ENTERTAINING. It's not like if you stop ripping off Yahtzee we'll all just lose interest, OK? You're a smart guy. PLEASE start acting like one.
That's his character. he's not a new guy who is getting his start here this character previously existed elsewhere. Besides Jim is narcissistic while yahtzee is the cynic and Daniel is the nice smart guy.
 

Aprilgold

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the spud said:
To me, the best way to add replay value is to create a world with many optional easter eggs and quests, that way on your second time through you may find something you didn't catch the first time around. It isn't necessary, though.
This, seriously, just... This. This is why I play Saints Row 2 so much is BECAUSE of the secret islands, outfits, areas, cars, all that, its just all there waiting for you to come back and enjoy. Also linear gameplay can BENEIFET a game if the games main mechanic is good enough. Also, while on the subject, companies, stop tossing all your love into multiplayer, get some singles out there or your just a bad underground band, its starting to make our community a little too bitchy..