Jimquisition: Linearity versus Replayability

[Hugga_Bear]

So, to recap: FF9, Portal and Bioshock are all good games?!?! Holy crap! It's not like there are video game critics out there by the hundreds who could have told me that, so I never would have known without you. [/sarCASM]

Seriously though: telling me that time-honored video game classics are good is like telling me that swearing in public is a bad idea. Not only does every functioning member of society over the age of ten know that, but you are also going to be wrong sometimes.

Take a risk, show us some video games we might not have tried before that are awesome and linear. Defend games commonly considered to be bad and show why they're awesome and game critics are stupids. But I really don't care that you think Mario is fun.

I get the feeling you may have missed the point. It wasn't "good games are good lolol" it was good games don't need multiplayer/cheap gimmicks to have replayability but have the replay value by virtue of being good.

I liked the video but I would love to see a multiplayer Bioshock done well. When Bioshock 2 worked it worked really well but it would often descend into cheap shots and same tactics over and over. Some aspects were brilliant though and some of the plasmid/weapon mixes worked really well. If they went to town on it with nice dedicated servers and a good population playing it I reckon it would be an amazing multiplayer game. Unfortunately I doubt the customer base is there and it would be costly, difficult too, especially with balancing.

Anyway, FF9 rocks ass. I have probably spent more time on single player games but it's quite close, between MAG and CoD4 particularly I've amassed a lot of hours online...still, good game is a good game. Much time spent on FO3 and New Vegas and so long spent on FF7 and 9 that I wonder how my younger self found the time.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Jim, your show tends to be pretty hit-or-miss, but this was cutting-the-arrow-already-in-the-bullseye-in-half hit. Wanna go for a hat-trick?

 

[Lunar Templar]

*claps*
well said Jim, well said indeed.

 

[PunkRex]

My God FF9 was fun, not to mention its aesthetics. Its story was as batshit bonkers as any other FF but definatly fun timez, FF10-2 aswell... except for playing Shinra at that crappy sphere break game... little prick.

 

[internetzealot1]

Okay, just because you can replay a game does not necessarily mean that it has replay value. It just means that you didn't fully exhaust to entertainment value present during your first playthrough. For example, I've played through Dead Space 1, an exceptionally linear game, four times. Each playthrough was less enjoyable than the previous, and by the fourth playthrough I had to struggle to finish (only did it to get the achievement for beating it on Insane). Why? Because with each playthrough, the game became less organic and more rigid. It fell into a recognizable pattern. Now, I'd say that replay value is the ability of a game to disrupt that pattern. A game like Dead Space does very little to disrupt the pattern, therefore giving it little "replay value," even though there may be alot of potential "entertainment value" to be gained by replaying the game.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Normally the times I replay a game (or do anything again) is when I have spent some time away from it and have a dulled memory that's packed with emotional content, and I want to remind myself what it felt like.

...Call it...Nostalgia.

Of course that's just about all I feel strongly nowdays: Nostalgia. That's why I'm now dedicated to makeing new experiences, so I can dig them up in a year or so and feel the strong emotions I rarely feel day to day.

Seriously, I watched six whole seasons of Digimon in the last few months just because it was the first anime I watched... And doing so made me realise just how much I loved it. I'd do the same for kingdom hearts but then I'd have to find it... and stuff I lost has practicaly flung off the face of the earth.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I have to point out a flaw in your logic here, Portal 2 was an amazing game for me, but yet I never played it more than once, played the co op only once through too. I just can't be bothered to play it again, however much I liked it. Puzzle games (or puzzles in general) have no replay value. Once you have finished them, they are redundant.

Also, I find him more annoying now than before, why are people taking a shine to someone who is trying his hardest to insult them? It doesn't make sense. He's also just trying to say what people are already thinking subconsciously, thus making people think he is smart.

Thank God, for me :/

 

[McMarbles]

When Jim's right, he's right.

I've always thought of online multiplayer not as replayability, but the illusion of replayability.

 

[bombadilillo]

I maintain the world would be a better place if games were SP or MP only. I hate getting watered down nonsensical SP games because 3/4ths of the resources went to the multiplayer. Have your COD MP game. Go for it. Just dont pretent its a standalone game s well.

 

[camazotz]

Ah, the voice of cold hard reason! Totally agree as usual. All of my favorite games became such for their single player campaigns, not their multiplayer--Mass Effect, Fallout 3, RE 1-4, Silent Hill (all of them), etc.

Thank god for Jim!

 

[camazotz]

I have to point out a flaw in your logic here, Portal 2 was an amazing game for me, but yet I never played it more than once, played the co op only once through too. I just can't be bothered to play it again, however much I liked it. Puzzle games (or puzzles in general) have no replay value. Once you have finished them, they are redundant.

Also, I find him more annoying now than before, why are people taking a shine to someone who is trying his hardest to insult them? It doesn't make sense. He's also just trying to say what people are already thinking subconsciously, thus making people think he is smart.

Thank God, for me :/

Whether he intends it or not, Jim Sterling is falling under what I call the "Kaufmanesque" brand of satire and comedy. I can't take umbrage with him, because I know he's hamming it up, making it outrageous and (amidst all the showmanship) making a good point. It's apparently something the internet has a hard time recognizing for what it is: putting on a good show, sometimes at the willing expense of the audience.

Think of it like this: you go to a stand up comedy show, and the guy on stage is integrating jokes with the audience, making fun of some individuals. It's part of his act, and most of us recognize it. It may not seem so obvious here (thus why I liken him to Andy Kaufman, who had a habit in his shows of blurring the lines between reality and performance) but attacking im for doing what he does is comparable to getting pissed at the comedian on stage and attacking him with a beer bottle.

There's a place for this in comedy and stage, and to be honest Jim and Yatzhee both do variants of it, and it works.

 

[Metalrocks]

i agree strongly with him. i always get sick when i hear people say that the game sucks just because it has no MP.
"oh, this game is not good because it has no MP and therefor not worth the money". so f***ing stupid.
damn, how many times have i replayed the half life games. mass effect 1+2. doom games (besides part 3), assassins creed 2 and brotherhood.
damn, even mirrors edge i have replayed so many times because i have simply fun playing it. how many people said there, it is not worth the money because of the lack of MP.
im not even fond of MP. the only MP game i really enjoy is TF2.

 

[Strain42]

Y'know, I actually had an argument about someone about this just a few days ago. We were debating whether or not Persona 5 would improve the series if they jammed in an alignment meter that some of the other MegaTen games have which could lead to Lawful, Neutral and Chaos endings.

I argued against it and tried to explain that there is nothing wrong with a game being linear, and I did basically quote Jim exactly and said that games just needed to be good.

Oddly enough he did pull out the "but it'll add replayability to it" but the newer Persona titles already do a pretty good job of that with their NG+ option.

So...thanks Jim, I guess. I admit, I was a bit thrown by your show at first, but after seeing this one and last weeks, it's really growing on me.

Keep it up.

EDIT: For some reason I did let out a small nerd squeal of excitement when you mentioned Final Fantasy 9 under the good games list. I'm not sure why I was surprised since I was already happy you use music from it for your show...

 

[Aureliano]

So, to recap: FF9, Portal and Bioshock are all good games?!?! Holy crap! It's not like there are video game critics out there by the hundreds who could have told me that, so I never would have known without you. [/sarCASM]

Seriously though: telling me that time-honored video game classics are good is like telling me that swearing in public is a bad idea. Not only does every functioning member of society over the age of ten know that, but you are also going to be wrong sometimes.

Take a risk, show us some video games we might not have tried before that are awesome and linear. Defend games commonly considered to be bad and show why they're awesome and game critics are stupids. But I really don't care that you think Mario is fun.

I get the feeling you may have missed the point. It wasn't "good games are good lolol" it was good games don't need multiplayer/cheap gimmicks to have replayability but have the replay value by virtue of being good.

Nope, don't think I missed the point. I was focusing on what I consider to be a problem with Jim's videos writ large that shows up again this week: a lot of his time gets spent telling people how games that critics liked are good games. They get used as examples in various arguments he makes, but what's the challenge in using critically acclaimed games to explain your point? How about some indie titles that do something really well, or even a shitty game that has one bright spot in its favor?

Fact is, I worry sometimes that his show really is pitched to the viewer of average intelligence.

 

[Jailbird408]

Egocentric bell-end has a point.

You know, when I was eight, I would play Spyro the Dragon for four hours straight, get to the end credits, quit, lose my data, and start all over again at a later date. And I didn't mind, because the game was EXCELLENT!

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Lemme try to remember here:

Half Life 1+2+both episodes
Pokemon
Bioshock
Metal Gear Solid 3
Mother 3 (Earthbound 2)
Earthbound (Mother 2)
Every single Mario platformer ever and a few rpg ones
Batman Arkham Asylum
Katamari
Star Fox 64
Every 3-D Zelda game
Braid
Portal 1+2
Fallout 3+New Vegas
DeadRising
Several Kirby games
and Just Cause 2...

Not all of them, but most I can think of at the top of my head. I guess you got a point there Jim.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Oh man, Jim can sing! I mean, his voice is somewhat angelic!

I mean, um, good manly episode there, Jim! You sure a man... OHH GOD SING AN OPERA FOR ME JIM STERLING <3

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Yup, Agree with him 100% with him.

If a game is just plain FUN, then that alone offers incentive to replay it. I've replayed Sonic 3 and Knuckles so many times I know many of the levels by heart. I spent over 20 hours beating Sonic colors the first time around because I was too busy replaying some of the really good levels over and over for high scores. I replayed Kingdom hearts because it was so freakin good and......ok fine, so I also got to experience the awesomeness of playing a mage-centric hero instead of a melee-focused one, but the point still stands.

If a game is really fun, that offers replay value. If it's got extra incentives, like more classes to try, or branchinc story arcs, or co-op or whatever, then great. But it's not like it's NEEDED. And in some games, throwing in online is stupid. Did Dead Space REALLY need a crappy multiplayer mode?

 

[Luke5515]

Haven't really enjoyed any of the other episodes, but this one I liked.
One thing about dead space two, I don't think it was the inclusion of multiplayer that started depleting the story(I really enjoyed the multiplayer), it was the fact that they ran out of vents for the necromorphs to hop out of when you're near them.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I agree 100%. It's just weird seeing all these great single player games adding in these pointless, tacked on multiplayer modes when everyone is just going to go back to COD after 3 or 4 hours on it.

Put more time into getting the single player right... looking at you, F.3.A.R. fa-three-er.