Father Time said:
leviadragon99 said:
1: I'm not saying it's a unified front by the community, far from it, it's a handful of misanthropes, but they're still numerous and loud enough to be a problem, to do everything they can to drag down the image of the rest of the community with them.
2: Oh yes, because knowing the topics someone is going to speak about is all you need to pre-emptively rebut them. Wait for someone to actually say what they're going to say before jumping in arguing about it, because HOW they talk about the points may surprise you, and then your commentary ends up irrelevant. Going by past experiences of their work is not absolutely reliable, as someone can still do something different, take a different viewpoint since they've grown as a person, or as the situation has changed, or tackle different aspects of the issue that you didn't consider instead of the old ones she didn't feel need to be said.
I can't even remember people making points against specific arguments before the videos started. But you know she's got a list of tropes that she's going to attack so you can defend them in a general sense and that'd be relevant.
leviadragon99 said:
And are you really trying to say that people on the internet shouldn't be allowed to make money from the content they produce?
Who said anything about allowed? I think she didn't need any money to do research, that it could've been done for free. That's it. I never called for kickstarter to remove her page.
leviadragon99 said:
4: Y'know, people who immediately assume someone is talking about them when there's accusations running around about certain people being douches without naming any names or trying to paint everyone with the same brush? Yeah, those kinds of people do tend to be either the ones the accusation were talking about, or so pathetically unable to work out that the calls of sexism aren't directed at the whole community that they may as well be,
So if you mistakenly believe they called you a sexist you're a sexist? How's that work? And I'm talking about calling the games sexist. They enjoy the games, they think the criticisms are completely without merit, so they become part of a backlash.
leviadragon99 said:
5: Yes, there was thankfully some more civil and intellectual discourse... eventually. But you can't deny that a significant amount, perhaps even the majority was mindless pettiness.
Sure I can. Mindless pettiness is subjective, and I don't think the majority were attacking her for no reason.
leviadragon99 said:
7: See... having a game that caters to certain likes or dislikes, preferences of content or type of play, is incredibly different to having one that outright makes it clear that someone isn't wanted, or just has little enough thought put into the mechanics and narrative that it comes off that way
Why? Isn't whether it comes off that way subjective?
leviadragon99 said:
8: How are Cod and Halo NOT prototypical gun-bro games exactly?
COD is ... I think, haven't heard the term gun-bro before. Halo has guns but they're all fictional sci-fi guns and its most famous weapons are a sword, a grenade and a hammer.
leviadragon99 said:
Nintendo has always been something of a wildcard, one of the few survivors of an even earlier era, a company primarily based on another culture's perspective, and one that exists primarily on long-standing franchises, saying they buck the trends is no great surprise.
They still count though and I'm fairly certain they outnumber COD games (not a hard feat, just have more than one game released a year).
Again how mainstream am I allowed to go? Does Bioshock count? Does the Last of Us? God of War? Hitman? LittleBigPlanet? Kerbal Space Program?
1: You were the one defending the practice of pre-emptively trying to counter her arguments in previous comments, now you say that defending them in a general sense is viable? No, I disagree, you need to wait for what someone actually says before you drag out the tired, pre-baked ready defences.
2: Okay then... how many people on the internet NEED to make money from their content? It's entirely possible the kickstarter was a way of supporting herself while she took time off from her real work to do that research. Again, I've seen people kickstarting for all manner of things, you don't have to donate/approve, but what does saying they don't have to do that even accomplish?
3: Not quite, but it's a warning sign, if you know yourself not to be sexist then why get in such a tizzy about claims that some people in your community are? And if you enjoy a game and think someone is mistaken in their conclusions about it, then be civil in your rebuttals, there's a proper way to show disapproval or disagreement, and again, we're not talking about those that were debating intelligently on the topic, we're talking about those that were screaming obscenities, I think it's fairly safe to say people whose first resort was that kind of behaviour didn't have any worthwhile input into the discussion.
4: But then were the majority attacking her for a GOOD reason? She doesn't have any actual power to take away allegedly sexist games, nor has she even been saying "this game is sexist and should not have been made", so why all the vitriol? What, indeed is the point of attacking her like that? So, when you take away the people disagreeing with her and trying to have a meaningful discussion about it, what percentage of commenters do you believe would remains?
5: Subjective yes, but there are certain trends, patterns and fairly broadly accepted logic, and if you manage to offend say... roughly half of humanity, I think that's a margin of subjective opinion worth paying attention to. If we refused to change offensive things because they're only offensive to some people rather than 100% of them, then blackface would still be okay, among so many other things we now have the collective insight to realize are not cool.
6: So? It's still the type of game that attracts the frat boy demographic to play the multiplayer endlessly and nothing else, I must admit I don't know how much online douchiness was thrown back and forth when Halo was still being played by the masses, but it falls into the same general sphere of gaming.
7: I'm not saying there aren't plenty of games out there that aren't modern military shooters or otherwise multiplayer focussed shooters, just that shooters have risen to a disproportionate prominence in the community, in how we seem to the outside, in how people who play only those games seem to think the community should be.
