I enjoyed this, thank you! Enlightenment aside, I would kinda like to see some games where men are truly objectified... for the sake of equality of course.
...He just did. We're portrayed well.themilo504 said:You should do a episode about the way male characters are portrayed in video games.
Actually I posted why there is a problem with the whole process at one point.Dire Sloth said:Damn. Just can't win!FoolKiller said:Now in video games this becomes a problem because people will claim that its just a guy with a female skin.Dire Sloth said:This is my idea of an idealized female protagonist:
Spearmaster said:Internet-"Hey! There is a problem"
Me- "What is it?"
Internet-"Women in games are over sexualized!!!"
Me-"Why is that a problem?"
Internet-"because some people don't like it"
Me-"Well I don't like tomatoes on my tacos"
Internet-"Derp,Derp'Derp"
Me-"Is it hurting people?"
Internet-"Well there is absolutely no evidence but we say it is... so yes it is hurting people."
Me-"Ohh, so what do you plan to do about your problem?
Internet-"Just another wave of over entitled bitching about someone's art form and how things have to change"
Me-"Really? I just don't buy tacos that have tomatoes on them, some people like tomatoes on their tacos so I don't think it has to change"
Internet-"Derp,Derp,Derp"
**Disclaimer**
This was a fictional dramatization of a typical conversation with the internet.
Is there a solution in this mire of sexism in video games that doesn't trample all over an artists creative design? Or is it nothing more than a whine about stuff people don't like. I hear thousands of people AGAINST sexism in video games and AGAINST over sexualized women and now even the idealization of men. Never once have I heard someone FOR a solution to this supposed problem, just whiners and the supposed moderates that say we should have discussions about it which is just a cowards way of supporting the whiners by giving credence to their argument.
CalUKGR said:The problem is, Jim, that some men in some games are objectified - certainly on a purely visual level. I'd cite Dante, from the most recent DMC game. Both he and his gorgeous-looking twin brother are dreamily good-looking young men, designed by someone with a VERY keen appreciation of male beauty. Personally (and speaking as a gay man) I can't get enough of a look at him (opening cut-scene FTW!).
It is true enough to say that in most games most male characters are indeed idealised; but in a few, like DMC, they are clearly objectified as well - and as us Brits would say: Gwooarh! Eh?
A line of argument I saw a woman use in another one of these topics in fact. She basically said more or less the same thing, that she doesn't have a problem with these fictional characters as her sense of self worth isn't determined by attractive characters.Redd the Sock said:It depends on the guy and the girl in question. Dante didn't go shirtless for the guys to look at his abs.
As someone that has used that argument in the past, I do so more to address the issue of self image: specifically that stereotypically men don't look at Kratos and think they need to hit the gym while an attractive female character seems to put off women that can't live up to the big boobs and thin waists. It isn't that I don't get where women are coming from, but I think the wrong message gets taken away. I'm a 35 your old hairy guy with minor acne, crooked teeth, and a beer gut, and I don't get self conscious when I see Dante, or Brad Pitt, or a muscle bound guy in tights in a comic book. I'm not always happy with everything about me, but I know I don't have to live up to some ideal, especially one that can only exist digitally, or through plastic surgery, starvation diets, non-stop exercise, and drugs.
But an element behind these gender topics is that yes, a lot of women still feel the need to live up to the Lara Crofts, and the response is to minimize their usage, not to try and break through their personal beauty myth. I'd like to think that a something women could learn from the guys in these debates is that you don't need to have your self worth dictated by how much you match something designed to be an unrealistic fantasy, and that the problem we do have with the beauty myth, exists less because of the myth's existence, but on people that do seem to think that their fantasy should be reality. Don't attack Lara Croft for being attractive, or anyone that finds her attractive. Attack those that expect you to be her, especially if that someone is yourself.
A misinterpretation made to sound like it had anything to do with gender.Darth_Payn said:And what's this about Bioshock: Infinite's creator intending to make it for the "DudeBro" crowd?
I don't think the point is that the "ideal" woman for women can't be sexy. What is being said is that they don't have to look likeEve Charm said:I'm lost to the point where good looking female character is nothing but objective but good looking male character is idealized.
DOA for example, all the characters have some story and they are just there to fight for a prize pretty much aside from the volleyball game What makes the females objective but the shirtless guys not. And no being a guy character doesn't put a better story, or get the woman story, it the same thing.
The Ideal woman isn't pretty? Ya I know we all have different tastes but how many of say 100 people are going to write down features like Fat, ugly or hairy. on the topic of boobs and butts tho, ya plastic surgery is pretty big in the us, same for male hairloss. How many male leads of games are balding ;p.
Playing MMO's, the big fat ugly character builds are hardly ever used and when they are used it's people making a joke character male or female, so can you see reasons on not spending a ton of money to make ugly character models.
Face it, Men and Women don't want ugly characters in games, the only that want them are for jokes.
Well that's sort of the problem. Jim did a fine job of differentiating between objectification and idealization, but without demonstrating that idealization doesn't cause many or all of the exact same problems as objectification, I don't know that we're doing ourselves a favor by pretending they don't have a lot in common. Some might argue that idealization is, in fact, a form of objectification, and therefore carries all the same baggage. I don't claim that to be true, but I'd like to see it discussed.Red X said:Ha! Jim cam!
Anyway, great vid. Nice to see a direct way differentiate the roles of women and men in games.
Although i don't think anyone should want to be Nathan Drake, he's a bigger douche than Kratos XD
Jimothy Sterling said:I'm trying my hardest to find all the videos I've done addressing the idea of male objectification before. I must have been on some killer drugs to forget all those.
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