Jimquisition: Old Man Mario

Jimothy Sterling

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Old Man Mario

Everybody knows Mario, most people love him, but is Mario being Mario enough anymore?

Watch Video
 

snowfi6916

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Hi Jim. I haven't seen the video yet since I usually like downloading them before I do. But I noticed it isn't listed on your podcast page yet. Any idea when it will be up? Thanks.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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We all know that if there's one thing Mario needs help with,
<spoiler= it's renovation>
<youtube=CIVRXzh9crk&start=8&autoplay=1>
 

MowDownJoe

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Is this the part 2 to your "I Hate Videogames" episode's part 1? Or is that never coming?
 

Xman490

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Usually a Mario game sells a Nintendo system for me (see: Super Mario Bros. DS ["New" prefix is stupid] and Super Mario Galaxy).
The 3DS and its Mario games have not enticed me, even though they are at a reasonable prices.

If Nintendo really wants to push the "retro" button until it breaks, they might as well push it as many times as it can, as in bring in EVERY element from the older games into Super Mario Bros. U. I'm talking about Blooper families, Chucks (football koopas), Rip Van Fish, Shy Guys, the whole assortment across the older games. Now THAT would sell me on the WiiU, give or take a Super Mario Galaxy 3 that evolves the series like Super Mario Bros. 3.
 

MonkeyPunch

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Too early in the thread for the inevitable shit-storm?
Disappointed.
Personally, I haven't been excited for a SMB game in bloody ages. I can see where Jim is coming from.
 

xPixelatedx

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I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better. Super Meatboy had better and more refreshing platforming, true. But Mario games are more about just trial&error platforming. It has enemies to fight throughout all the stages, and I've found that helps balance out the fun. I also think FPSs were once much more fun when they had more to do then just point and shoot. I liked finding keycards, actually being able to swim, uncovering secrets, etc. Sure, FPSs of today have MUCH better shooting mechanics, that's not even debatable. But current FPSs aren't necessarily superior, since they lack all those other things that broke up the monotony of just pointing and shooting a gun. Mario isn't the best game, and it is showing it's age, but I don't really see any games today trying to do what Mario does (which is funny since there was 100 clones back in the day). (Okok, there is Rayman, but that's a rare gem) I don't want to see Mario go away because it's one of the few platformers we have left, and one of the few platformers that remembers the genre was about more then just jumping.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Agreed.

I thoroughly enjoyed Super Mario Galaxy, so I thought 'Hey, SMG2, now with Yoshi!'

Same setting, same music, I just wasn't interested in playing that any more.
 

Mr. Omega

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I'm not crazy about the "New" series. They're just an officially made fan game. A lot of fun to play, but not of substance. That being said, they make money. So Nintendo does have reason to make them.

And the big, massive mind-blowers typically come out once a generation after the NES. Super Mario World, Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy... plenty of interesting spin-offs, but those are more distractions to keep making money until the real meat comes along. Of course, then there are the surprises like the Mario RPGs.

Galaxy 2 was an exception, but it came around the time of the "New" titles, so it wasn't helping with the whole "showing his age" thing. As long as the "New" series doesn't interrupt the REAL new Mario games, I'm fine.

Still, I'm curious what the WiiU 3D Mario Platformer will be. Where can one go after Galaxy?
 

beetrain

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Not only are the new games uninspired, they dilute any love I had for previous games; I tried replaying Galaxy a couple of months ago, and it inspired no emotions in me, I'm burned out on everything it does.

So how long until someone brings up Moviebob still liking Mario games?
 

Arqus_Zed

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I agree with most of the things stated in this video, though I haven't really been into Mario since the SNES era. Mario 64 was nice enough, but during that same generation (the 5th gen) the game got surpassed on every level by other platformer games - which made me wonder why they never made a sequel to Mario 64 on the N64 console to reclaim their position.

Mario Sunshine had some of the lowest scores a "main" Mario title ever had. It was also released around the same time we got Jak and Daxter, Ratchet & Clank and Sly Raccoon - other platformer titles that were very enjoyable and developed new, interesting mechanics without depending on nostalgia. Now that the new Mario game wasn't released before the onslaught of other platformer titles, people started to realize Mario games aren't THAT great. They're good, but they aren't worth the showers of "perfect scores".

Then the 7th gen happened...

These days, the only competition Mario gets from the platformer genre is the LEGO franchise - which is a sad statement in and of itself.

Why try harder if nobody's challenging you...
 

Aircross

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Nintendo should have Mario take on the 4th dimension next, complete with paradoxes that need to be resolved into stable time loops.
 

burningdragoon

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So what I'm getting from this video is... that they need to make a third Yoshi's island game.
 

porpoise hork

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This week's episode reminded me of the underlying setting for There Will be Brawl in so many ways.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/there-will-be-brawl
 

ConanThe3rd

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Yeah, argument is sound. Problem is will Nintendo do anything to solve it?

Also, I played SMeatB and RO and, well, I don't like those as a potential evolution to platformers as there was none of the charm of the pre Galaxy 2 mario games and only "You fucked up? Ohohoh! Start over, you jackass!" smarmyness. Something that got even more obvious in the bosses (Rayman especially).

I think if nothing else, besides refusing to evolve at all (Nintendo's problem) there's the risk of evolutionary dead ends; stuff like FFXIII which basically refused point blank to allow the player to play as it had more fun with itself.
 

ThePS1Fan

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LoZ is the only Nintendo franchise I even care about at this point. Can't really be bothered to talk about Mario games when I'm completely apathetic towards them.
 

porpoise hork

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ConanThe3rd said:
Yeah, argument is sound. Problem is will Nintendo do anything to solve it?
They will likely make four or five pathetic failed attempts before finally putting Mario to rest, or actually manage to produce something new and enjoyable. Sadly for many of us it will still have that too little too late feel about it.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Mario is the COD of Japanese games. They make the same game every year and make shit loads of money. If the audience is fine with it, whatever, have fun I guess? But then again, I missed most of the Mario storm when I was a kid (Didn't have a console until the playstation era, most of my gaming came from Doom and other old DOS PC games), so maybe I'm missing something.
 

Eric the Orange

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Jim should do that, explain the episode thing at the end of every episode to help stem the tide of the stupids.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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ForgottenPr0digy said:
Dynasty Warriors games rule

is DW7 any good?
DW7 is a solid return to form after DW6, but Warriors Orochi 3 is really where it's at. That game is pretty much the perfect Warriors title.
 

Balkan

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I knda find it funny how little bitches like moviebob whine how call of duty hasnt changed for SOOO long , but never says anything about mario .
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aircross said:
Nintendo should have Mario take on the 4th dimension next, complete with paradoxes that need to be resolved into stable time loops.
Super Mario World: Mario Meets the Elder Things. Now with Sanity Meter!

I'd buy that. Instant Game of the Year.

For serious. :)
 

Rad Party God

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*sigh* Mario, Mario, Mario... how the mighty have fallen.

Having barely played Mario Galaxy 1 (like 20 minutes in a friend's house), I IMMENSELY enjoyed Mario Galaxy 2, but I hated the "New" Super Mario Bros. on both the Wii and the DS.

Having played Super Meat Boy (and achieving 100% and going for a second playthrough) and Rayman Origins, heck, even Sonic Generations... Mario is getting old. Sure, Sega took like 10+ games to get Generations right and the entire game is supposed to rely entirely on nostalgia, but at least they took everything that worked in the past and make an amalgam of awesomeness, while still feeling new enough.

Mario is getting a bit repetitive and Nintendo seems to be running out of ideas, but at least there are far worse "rehashed" games out there that ask way more money each year.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I always found mario to be too much of the same over and over again, and I never owned a nintendo console (before the Wii, and what a waste of money that was) so I never got hooked on the nostalgia into thinking that any of nintendos shit was actually good.

And Jim, if not liking Mario makes me a war criminal, I have no problem being considered that! :p

Now excuse me while I go commit genocide in Sword of the Stars.
 

Scrustle

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I'm starting to get the feeling that Nintendo are starting to falter ever since Miyamoto stepped down.
 

Soviet Heavy

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I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
 

Azuaron

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I'm apparently a war criminal.

Platformers are, by and large, boring for me.
 

TheScottishFella

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Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
 

themilo504

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Its true but I would like to bring up the point that though there is quite a bit of Competition in the 2d market can you name any original 3d platformer released in the last 2 years?
There really arent any and considering its my favorite genre I freely admit to be very forgiving of things things like the fact that super Mario galaxy 2 is just the first but more and that super Mario 3d land feels a lot like galaxy but less spectacular and without a health bar so until they start milking the nostalgia of people who grew up with n64 and start making 3d platformers mario gets a free pass.
 

MB202

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I have to admit, this is where I disagree with MovieBob the most. As much as I like Mario, I'm not about to throw my money away just for another batch of relatively bland and uninspired levels and a handful of often completely pointless power-ups. I MIGHT be inclined to buy it with the inclusion of certain underrated characters like the Koopalings, thought, but I'm kind of a sucker for the Koopalings anyway. Still, I can't help but feel that Nintendo really isn't trying anymore with their mainstream Mario games...
 

themilo504

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Arqus_Zed said:
I agree with most of the things stated in this video, though I haven't really been into Mario since the SNES era. Mario 64 was nice enough, but during that same generation (the 5th gen) the game got surpassed on every level by other platformer games - which made me wonder why they never made a sequel to Mario 64 on the N64 console to reclaim their position.

Mario Sunshine had some of the lowest scores a "main" Mario title ever had. It was also released around the same time we got Jak and Daxter, Ratchet & Clank and Sly Raccoon - other platformer titles that were very enjoyable and developed new, interesting mechanics without depending on nostalgia. Now that the new Mario game wasn't released before the onslaught of other platformer titles, people started to realize Mario games aren't THAT great. They're good, but they aren't worth the showers of "perfect scores".

Then the 7th gen happened...

These days, the only competition Mario gets from the platformer genre is the LEGO franchise - which is a sad statement in and of itself.

Why try harder if nobody's challenging you...
Woops forgot the lego games I do think there good If a bit repetitive but yeah it is a pretty sad statement.
 

Shoggoth2588

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I can't disagree with the points Jim makes about the Mario games but I still eat them up with a spoon even if they don't last me as long as they used to. I grabbed Mario Kart 7 shortly after release and that was the first one where I didn't feel like there was a lot going for it. I haven't played Mario Land 3D yet but then, the last 3D Mario title I played was 64. I guess I can still take it because I took a break but then I've given other games a break too (I think Dynasty Warriors (regular, gundam, fist of the north star and, caffeine-free)) is made with crack. It may be bad for you but ya just can't stop when you need your fix ya know? I guess I'll be to blame when New Super Mario Bros 3 is out since I do still plan on getting 2 and U on launch day.
 

Toilet

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connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
I stopped watching Game Overthinker because all the interesting opinions are scattered and hidden behind shitty subplots and sketches where Bob gets to think he can direct engaging action and suspense (Protip: e cant). Also he is a massive Fanboy.

Otherwise Nintendo needs to stop running on nostalgia, people are starting to see other than the same Mario, Zelda and Kirby games with a new twist Nintendo has nothing. I want a new F-Zero, Custom Robo, Battalion Wars, Golden Sun or god forgive a new property.

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.
 

Uber Waddles

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Mario has been stagnant now for quite a few years. And yet, why is stagnant a bad thing, from a business perspective?

The Mario brand has built up years of good faith over gamers, and has both enticed new gamers and kept the attention of old gamers. Mario has always been a series that could innovate and guarantee the copy would sell. But innovation is expensive, and Nintendo has been losing money hand over fist.

Mario is able to get away with this recent stagnation because its target audience isn't the people who've been playing him since the NES days. That is a demographic, but Nintendo is focusing on the newer gamers, who aren't familiar with Super Mario Brothers 3 or World. To someone who was not engrossed in them at the time, they're impact is really hard to feel - so borrowing them and packaging them in a newer, shinier package is a way to make money.

A variety of factors go into the success of these stagnant Mario games too. When we compare these Mario games to the competition on the Wii, Mario beats the hell out of almost every title its beside. Say what you want about the Wii, but its releases hit a brick wall, and hard. We also have the die hard Mario fans that don't care - one of the advantages of having such a prestigious brand. We also have the 'Sonic Factor'. Its not going to go away - its too much of a secure money source.

It sucks, but its got too much of a force with hardcore fans and new fans.
 

xPixelatedx

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connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
As a huge Nintendo fan, that even bothers me to. If you really love something, you want to point out it's flaws, that way it can get better! You want to see it be the best it can be. it isn't love to see only shimmering light where dark cracks are forming, thats fanaticism, and that doesn't help you or what you care so deeply for. After the whole ME3 thing, I was shocked to see him defend Bioware simply because they are a game company, then thumb his nose at the rest of the gaming population because we dared question the almighty 'Game Makers'.

I also agree that the overreaction to the tanuki thing wasn't at all warranted (I am speaking about everyone who overreacted, not just bob). Yeah, it was a nod to a better one of their games from the past, but that's kind of the elephant in the room, isn't it? Mario 3 was a much better game, and all adding Mario 3 powerups to modern games does is remind people there was once a better game.
 

orangeapples

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Nintendo is a solid company that makes good games, but it seems like they're missing the point of Mario games. Mario games are about exploration of strange new lands and discovering hidden areas on his journey to save Princess Peach from the evil King Bowser.

Collecting coins and speed runs are a side thing that people did once they've played the game enough times. NOT the main point of the game. This "New" Super Mario Bros. 2 (Which can hardly call itself new as it is the 3 of the "new" series; missed the perfect 3D tag there Nintendo) and the coin thing is just ridiculous. This is just as bad as the raccoon tail thing that happened a while back (which itself ruined Mario consistency as now the leaf offers both "tanooki" and raccoon suits) but they slapped that tail onto everything. No. we wanted to have the raccoon tail back because it is iconic (it's the friggen cover of SMB3), not a dumb story where everything has a tail (why does boo have a tail? That makes no sense. It can already fly). And "New" Super Mario Bros. U and the whole "put blocks to accomplish new speed runs" is such a stupid idea. All everyone is gonna do is build a staircase and make a path above the level completely missing the point of the speed run. That or troll their friends by placing blocks in the worst possible spots.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Didn't see that coming. I've been out of the Nintendo Business for some time as a fan. Seems valid, seems well thought out. It was enjoyable to watch. Is there a slow week in game releases going on? I noticed Ben did a retro kinda review (No I'm not saying your coping him)
I'm just wondering if there's a lack of content to cover.
 

maninahat

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Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
Ha ha, very true. Its like he has an obligation to bring it up every episode.

Then again, I wish I could get that excited over that sort of thing. I feel passionless and miserable by comparison.

Also pleased to see that Jim told those "lol hypocrite" commentators to fuck off. Same fucking argument every week, that still some how manages to miss the point of what he was saying about the same old same old.
 

TheScottishFella

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xPixelatedx said:
As a huge Nintendo fan, that even bothers me to. If you really love something, you want to point out it's flaws, that way it can get better! You want to see it be the best it can be. it isn't love to see only shimmering light where dark cracks are forming, thats fanaticism, and that doesn't help you or what you care so deeply for. After the whole ME3 thing, I was shocked to see him defend Bioware simply because they are a game company, then thumb his nose at the rest of the gaming population because we dared question the almighty 'Game Makers'.

I also agree that the overreaction to the tanuki thing wasn't at all warranted (I am speaking about everyone who overreacted, not just bob). Yeah, it was a nod to a better one of their games from the past, but that's kind of the elephant in the room, isn't it? Mario 3 was a much better game, and all adding Mario 3 powerups to modern games does is remind people there was once a better game.
I was worried when I saw I was quoted thought I was going to get some flame. Nice to see that you agree, I mean I love Valve but even I know that they have their problems, nothing is perfect which is one thing that annoys me with many fanboys is alot of the time they refuse to see the flaws of the things they love, I mean just because you acknowledge there is a flaw doesn't mean that as a whole the thing you like isn't decent.

His episode "Eulogii" really highlighted how in some ways this is not the show for him, mainly because he said that there was no originality in gaming and it was a stagnant wasteland where no-one wanted to take risks, completely ignoring the explosion on PC indie titles and to some extent XBOX Live Arcade (even if their practices are questionable.) It just pissed me off.

The ME3 defence was a shocking episode to watch, I personably didn't have too much problem with the ending but I understand how people felt and why, Bob on the other hand openly stated he didn't know what he was talking about regarding the series and had only watched the ending. Getting an outide perspective is nice but I felt he just didn't know what he was talking about, bringing up points and dismissing others even though he had no idea what he was talking about. I like Escape to the Movies but the Game Overthinker I can't watch anymore. It's just he's so Nintendo heavy that it blinds him to the other sides which means he can't look at the industry as a whole.

Toilet said:
I stopped watching Game Overthinker because all the interesting opinions are scattered and hidden behind shitty subplots and sketches where Bob gets to think he can direct engaging action and suspense (Protip: e cant). Also he is a massive Fanboy.

Otherwise Nintendo needs to stop running on nostalgia, people are starting to see other than the same Mario, Zelda and Kirby games with a new twist Nintendo has nothing. I want a new F-Zero, Custom Robo, Battalion Wars, Golden Sun or god forgive a new property.

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.
I understand why he does those shorts, he is trying to make things different from the other shows. He is also a movie critic and most critics want to make films themselves, the show allows him to use his audience as a board for his creative side but also allows him to let out his creative side.

Sorry for the long post guys.
 

Terramax

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xPixelatedx said:
I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better.
Play Klonoa: Door to Phantomile.

As for my opinion on this video: it's about 5 years too late.

The first Mario Galaxy was pretty bog standard if you ask me.
 

lord.jeff

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I personally liked Super Mario Bros. 3 wii and how the multiplayer was done added a pretty fresh element but other then that most Mario games are pretty much uninspired. If they handled it like there other series with only a game or two a console, Zelda you get about a three year wait between games with Mario you get about 2 a year.
 

GLo Jones

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Was it just me, or was he pronouncing Mario as 'Muh-ree-oh' throughout the video?
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Moviebob is probably going to rage when he sees this. And it'll be fun to watch him rant like a nostaliga-blinded twit.
 

Mark B

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Mario used to be a system seller, I haven't bought a mario in a long while let alone bought a system for him.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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DVS BSTrD said:
We all know that if there's one thing Mario needs help with,
<spoiler= it's renovation>
<youtube=CIVRXzh9crk&start=8&autoplay=1>
I remember that. Man, i thought that joke was soooooooo stupid.
 

immortalfrieza

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Toilet said:
On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.
Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"
 

chiefohara

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Strange... last time i played Mario was super mario bros 1 on the DS, prior to that it was gameboy or snes.

Always liked it, but i don't have nintendo hardware so i missed out on mario 3d galaxy etc. etc. , but the SMB2 for the DS actually had me considering buying it so i could play it on my sisters DS

Guess my point is, i was a lost customer, but im being brought back for the same old same old on this occasion cause its the old school stuff i used to play.
 

anthony87

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immortalfrieza said:
Toilet said:
On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.
Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"
I dunno. Isn't the main appeal of the Pokemon games the Pokemon themselves? Sure, the "plot" is shite and Black and White 2 will be using the same generation as the last game but aside from that, each new generation has brought a whole new stable of Pokemon to the table along with maybe a tweak or two to the battle system and that's the draw of the series. To catch all the Pokemon.
 

Triaed

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I quite love Mario Kart 7. I understand it is the "same old" presented in an old way; however, it is a Mario Kart game in my hand-held device and is a BIG improvement over the previous iteration. I like my Mario on the go.

Even though Nintendo is stale, perhaps we need to differentiate between consoles? We are bound to get some repetition.

For the record, I hate Nintendo too
 

immortalfrieza

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anthony87 said:
immortalfrieza said:
Toilet said:
On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.
Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"
I dunno. Isn't the main appeal of the Pokemon games the Pokemon themselves? Sure, the "plot" is shite and Black and White 2 will be using the same generation as the last game but aside from that, each new generation has brought a whole new stable of Pokemon to the table along with maybe a tweak or two to the battle system and that's the draw of the series. To catch all the Pokemon.
If that were the case, they could just have each game be a few areas the player could walk around catching Pokemon and doing nothing else. The main appeal is the battling aspect, but they haven't really done much there either.
 

Signa

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I think you're touching on something incredibly important here Jim: Level design and gameplay mechanics as art. I know you covered art games before, and it's hard to make comparisons between Super Mario and Dear Ester, but games like New Super Mario Brothers show how artistic the design of a level can be (or in NSMB case, the lack of that art and how it affects the game). Nintendo has lost their sense of that art with their Mario games. It used to be where you could go through a level one way, or you could find secrets that net you a few bonuses for skillful playing. Now the Mario games have big arrows pointing "Secret here!" and throw coins at you like they are worth nothing.

I feel like my words aren't flowing right, but I hope you read this and understand what I'm getting at.
 

MPerce

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Uh.....everything that Jim said.

Last Mario game I bought was Galaxy, and I loved the shit out of it. The years that followed have been filled with sadness and sighs as I wait for the next Mario game that's not a clone of its predecessor.
 

Drauger

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Mehhh Nintendo been doing this crap since crap i dont remember x_x, the last mario game i liked was mario 64 yeah ._. since then i haven have fun with a mario game, it's soo lame to see nintendo relauching the same old games over and oever and over................................. im sick and tired of Zelda the ocarine of time -.-, i wish i could see a super mario rpg 2 ... no not paper mario, no mario and luigi nope a Super Mario rpg 2.
 

the1Jugg

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Ok, lets be honest here... Nintendo's past has been checkered when it comes to originality. Super Mario Bros was original - but not the character of Mario, he had been around since Donkey Kong. SMB 2 was only a vast departure because it was ported from a different series. SMB3 had an overworld and very recognizable themed worlds... the same as Super Mario World. SMW2 was Yoshi's island... and that was unique - but nobody wanted it. Super mario 64 was very uniqe because it was mission based. Super Mario sunshine - same as 64 but with a water cannon. Super Mario Galaxy... that was the same as 64, but with gravity all screwed up (dont get me wrong, I loved it). And SMG 2 was just that, a sequel. So, if history repeats, we can expect Mario's next real game (console release) to be a good one. You cant count the handhelds - they never were original (see Super Mario Land, etc)
 

PunkRex

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I wasn't in to gaming when early Nintendo was about but then I found Wind Waker and Pikmin I was like 'Wow, these guys are good' so I waited... and waited... and waited... Pikmin 2 was fantastic and im about to play Skyward Sword but... thats a long time to wait for two games. Everything else seems to be the same old drival.
 

daxterx2005

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"New" isn't meant to be "Look its a new game" its just a horribly named series. Mario is divided into tons of different series under the same franchise. New is just the newest one....

-Super Mario Bros
-Super Mario Land
-Super Mario World
-Super Mario 64
-Super Mario Sunshine
-Super Mario Galaxy
-Mario Kart
-Mario Party
-NEW Super Mario Bros.

etc. etc.
 

LazyAza

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Yep the very reason I've ignored the vast majority of nintendo products over the years is precisely because they all look the same to me. I think on average I can stomach about 3 iterations of a game that is extremely similar from release to release but once you get to 4+ you either kill your franchise or drastically alter it to keep it interesting.

I fucking loved all three Mass Effect games but by the end of three I was certainly thinking "yeah that's enough of this now" and I will be genuinely uninterested in a new ME game if it's just another commander shepard saves the universe with dialogue wheels and half decent cover shooting adventure.
 

scorptatious

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Kinda have to agree. Mario is definitely showing his age now-a-days, and his games just don't interest me anymore. Super Mario 3D Land to me just felt kinda boring and rehashed. Of course it's kind of like what Yahtzee said one time, Mario has went to space, so where else is there for him to go to?

Also, what's the music towards the end of the video before the credits? I swear I heard it before from somewhere but I can't remember where.
 

scorptatious

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Terramax said:
xPixelatedx said:
I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better.
Play Klonoa: Door to Phantomile.
That was a great game. My only gripe with it though is that I felt it was too short. :/
 

Timnoldzim

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The biggest problem with Mario, in my opinion, isn't the stagnation of things that WORK (which is also bad, mind you), but rather, the stagnation of things that are outdated and DON'T work anymore- most specifically, lives. There is NO POINT in keeping lives around, and there hasn't since 1996, when Super Mario 64 let you save after avery level. Nintendo insists on keeping them around simply because they can't seem to think of what other purpose coins could serve, even though other platformers have done perfectly intelligent, non-lives-related things with them.
 

Proverbial Jon

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Dust: An Elysian Tail looks interesting, thanks for the tip Jim! I'll be downloading it as soon as it's up on XBLA... because I looked just now and although it's listed, I can't download it.

As for Maria, I've never been much of a Nintendo fan and I've never played a single Maria game. So yeah, I can't really add anything to this discussion!
 

Fappy

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Way to dig the ol'd "Jim is a hypocrite because of Dynasty Warriors v. Mario Kart 7" corpse :p

In any case I enjoyed the episode and will have to take your word for it because I don't play handhelds. I usually only concern myself with console Mario releases of which Mario Galaxy 2 was the last to my knowledge and I only played the first one. If the Wii-U can deliver a next-gen unique Mario experience that accomplishes what Galaxy did then I'll consider buying into Nintendo's next console. Maybe.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Decent video

I mostly like it for the massive shit it takes all over Moviebob and his pathetic excuses for wanking over every fucking mario game that come out while condemning others for doing the same fucking thing
 

JediMB

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I enjoyed New Super Mario Bros. (DS) the first time around, but quickly realized that it just didn't have the replay value of other Mario games. It felt stale. That's why it's the only game in Mario's "nostalgia series" that I actually own.

I've only briefly played NSMB Wii, and feel pretty apathetic about Super Mario 3D Land and NSMB2.

That said, I have no problems with Super Mario Galaxy 2, despite that it's pretty much just an expansion of the original Galaxy game. The mechanics still felt up to snuff, and the new content was fantastic.

Hopefully Nintendo will get back on track with their innovation for the next part in the series on the Wii U. Hard to say where they'd go from Galaxy, but some sort of dimension-hopping (utilizing the Wii U controller screen) could be cool.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Yes and Jimquisition used to be fresh, provocative and interesting.

Now it's just becoming boring, sad and just repeats what others have said ages ago.

Just like Mario.
 

The White Hunter

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SupahGamuh said:
*sigh* Mario, Mario, Mario... how the mighty have fallen.

Having barely played Mario Galaxy 1 (like 20 minutes in a friend's house), I IMMENSELY enjoyed Mario Galaxy 2, but I hated the "New" Super Mario Bros. on both the Wii and the DS.

Having played Super Meat Boy (and achieving 100% and going for a second playthrough) and Rayman Origins, heck, even Sonic Generations... Mario is getting old. Sure, Sega took like 10+ games to get Generations right and the entire game is supposed to rely entirely on nostalgia, but at least they took everything that worked in the past and make an amalgam of awesomeness, while still feeling new enough.

Mario is getting a bit repetitive and Nintendo seems to be running out of ideas, but at least there are far worse "rehashed" games out there that ask way more money each year.
Have you played Sonic Colours?

Cuz Sega really kicked Sonic up the arse with that one it's absolutely brilliant, though Generations is amazing I did have a few issues with it that I didn't with Colours, though I'm not going over them for the billionth time.

OT: Yeah pretty much, I mean with the NSMB2 (god even the acronym sucks...) thing surely there are other themes you could have for worlds at least?

Fucking step it up nintendo.
 

Scyla

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I'm not quite sure if I can agree with Jim on this topic and I try a different angle. So before we start I have to say that I don't own any current Nintendo system and thus none of the new Mario games. But I played ah good amount of SMG 1 and 2 and the New Super Mario wii game.

I think the problem that Nintendo has with Innovation is that the console cycle is far to long. When you look at older consoles from the NES upwards there were like 1-3 core Mario games per System. For the N64 there was only SM64 and for the Game Cube SM Sunshine (correct me if I'm wrong). Now the system is cluttered with Mario titles because Nintendo has to ship games to make profit and keep their fans and investors happy.

To make inventions you have to have time and new tech. All this was incorporated in the Super Mario Galaxy titles that are fresh and new and plain awesome. The later Mario games were just cash-ins.

So if the Mario titles for the wii U bring no innovation I have to agree with Jim. At the moment the problems seem only to occur in the latest additions to the Mario franchise I will file them under faux pas.

Also while I have to agree that Super Meat Boy is an awesome awesome game I'm not sure that it is for everyone and certainly not for every player that enjoys a Super Mario game.

As a last addition Super Mario World was just Super Mario Bros. 3 with Yoshis! Still SWM is one of my favorite Mario games.
 

OldNewNewOld

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I find it funny how every time the topic is "stagnation of games", everyone points their finger at Nintendo and CoD, while ignoring the rest of the industry that isn't even a tiny bit better.
Those few exception are few and far between.

I somewhat agree with Jim, but handheld Mario games were never close to innovation. They never introduced something drastically different or new. It was always the 3D games on the home console that were doing new stuff, with the exception of Galaxy 2. But since it was several times better than Galaxy 1, I will completely ignore the lack of "innovation".

And even tho you can feel the stagnation, I have yet to play a Mario game that wasn't extremely funny. Yes, they may lack any innovation, but they are still funny to play.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.

Hah! well said sir, well said. Im too young for the NES or 'classic Nintendo' to be nostalgia. Therefore I've thought Nintendo could go eat a dick long before things had got to this sorry point.

edit; fucking new quote placement!!! RAAAAAAAGGGEE!
 

faefrost

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They really do need to do something to spice up the series. Something new and edgy to grab the attention...

I know lets make him an urban street character, with a gun... who's also a werewolf! That'll sell to them kiddies!
 

infinity_turtles

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Normally agree with Jim, but I'm someone who tends to like a lot of the things older games did not because of nostalgia, but because I just generally prefer those sorts of things. Now, Mario games aren't something I feel like that with, platformers not really being a genre I see as anything but a diversion during a drought of titles I am interested in, but I'm sure there are those who do. In a weird way, by sticking to older mechanics and design when others are experimenting, they're increasing the variety of the genre by maintaining one of the styles that others are moving away from. Ultimately, I think this is good for gamers, because those who want "newer and better"(Which is condescending as hell to those who like the old stuff) have new games that tickle their fancy, while those who prefer older designs/mechanics have new games that suit their tastes too.
 

New Frontiersman

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I like Mario and I like Nintendo, but I do really see where Jim is coming from. I've never really thought of it in those terms way before, but I can't deny that it is somewhat accurate.
On the other hand I still enjoy Mario games. They're still really fun to me. Even if the mechanics are dated, I still enjoy them. I don't know if I'll be getting the new one, I might though.

Also while this is only about the second Jimquisition video I've ever seen, from what I've seen so far, I really like this guy. He has some good things to say. I like though how he isn't just complete hate all the time, like some other people *cough*Yahtzee*cough*. It was nice to hear him talk about the good as well as the bad, and make suggestions on how to improve. It was what made this video watchable rather than just a pool of angry bile *cough*Yahtzee*cough*.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I think one of the main issues with Mario games not moving forward is that the idea is already well trodden ground. You could forgive something like say Metro Last Light treading the same ground because the concept and execution of the games are so cutting edge and leave more room to grow and refine. Mario has been refined in the same basic area for nearly 30 years in 2D and 15 in 3D. Saying a Mario game is "Well made" is kind of a given, you are not exactly out on the bleeding edge of game design.

Sometimes 'more of the same' is not so bad when it's refined more of the same in a game that had some ambition. Valve, for example, gives us "more of the same" in quite a few places but it always feels like more was needed on the subject. Hell people would throw piles of money at Valve for some more of the same of Half Life.

Mario is a game that, in its current form, has reached the pinnacle of its design. Nintendo needs something fresh.


Scyla said:
To make inventions you have to have time and new tech. All this was incorporated in the Super Mario Galaxy titles that are fresh and new and plain awesome. The later Mario games were just cash-ins.
The problem with this is Nintendo is willfully ignoring new technology whist investing in a baffling array of proprietary interfaces. It has almost no online infrastructure (the biggest development of the last 10 years) and their development in graphical power was very minimal on the Wii when compared to the game-cube. A game as good as Galaxy would have been possible there, they just fucked sunshine up.

The other problem with this argument is that many companies seem able to innovate and push existing technology to its limit, Nintendo have never really done this. Relying on quantum leaps in technology to make your concept look fresh is a bit lazy in of it's self never-mind the fact that that gains we get from increased tech are giving us diminishing returns in what new stuff we can do.
 

him over there

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I agree however the thing is the target demographic for Mario is static and the people enjoying it now are always moving. The rationale as far as I can tell is that Mario is aimed at little kids and they will play maybe two or three mainstream Mario games before outgrowing the franchise. There isn't a need to innovate as drastically because the people playing Mario Sunshine won't be the people playing Mario Galaxy. Yes there is hardly anything different between New super Mario bros one and two, but because the target audience is so young there is a large amount of people who will not even know the first existed and the second will be their very first Mario game.

So it would be great if they innovated but it doesn't really matter since most people aren't going to be playing Mario games across multiple console generations.
 

Dangit2019

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Balkan said:
I knda find it funny how little bitches like moviebob whine how call of duty hasnt changed for SOOO long , but never says anything about mario .
Watch "Junk Drawer Rises". He basically says that because Mario innovated so much in the past, they deserve to make nostalgia games as a sort of "comeback tour". He compared this to Paul McCartney singing old Beatles songs instead of making new albums. I thought it was a bit B.S. since remaking old Mario platforming is not as near as inspired as the rest of the competition.
 

Gatx

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Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
 

Terminate421

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Mr. Omega said:
I'm not crazy about the "New" series. They're just an officially made fan game. A lot of fun to play, but not of substance. That being said, they make money. So Nintendo does have reason to make them.

And the big, massive mind-blowers typically come out once a generation after the NES. Super Mario World, Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy... plenty of interesting spin-offs, but those are more distractions to keep making money until the real meat comes along. Of course, then there are the surprises like the Mario RPGs.

Galaxy 2 was an exception, but it came around the time of the "New" titles, so it wasn't helping with the whole "showing his age" thing. As long as the "New" series doesn't interrupt the REAL new Mario games, I'm fine.

Still, I'm curious what the WiiU 3D Mario Platformer will be. Where can one go after Galaxy?
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.

The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.

Also no more lives.
 

Khazoth

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So, i'm gonna post this here so it can be ignored and have me be called a Nintendo fan boy by all the cynical folk.. But.. You know what?


It's your fault. All of you Nintendo fans? As an outsider to the whole Nintendo thing I can see rather clearly that its your fault. Zelda 2, Mario Sunshine, and etc.. They do try different things, and then everyone screams and panics because its different and hate it.


Then they go back to making the same game over and over. Why bother being new when your fans will hate you for it?
 

Joey Bolzenius

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Decent video, I agree but its not a huge issue for me. Moviebob is going to pounce on this video like a tiger. Fingers crossed for Jim Sterling/Bob Chipman debate.
 

lastjustice

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I don't fully agree with Jim here. I like to see the occasional 2 platformer, as I loved Super Mario Bros Wii. 2d platformer is a perfected art(I've never been a fan of the 3D mario games. There's just something off about them.), and I think it's good from time to time for someone to put out their best work. Mario 3 has always been one of my favorite titles so I think it's cool take and make a game out of the same vein and add co-op to it. That was a great way to spice it up, and if you have not played Mario wii with multiple players you just missed the point of the game. (as someone who has always had tons of family and friends to co-op play with , I wish we'd get a heck of alot more local co-op. I don't want to play with random people online remotely as much as my real life people I know.)

I was happy to see some retrogame gems get revisited with megaman 9 and 10. (which Capcom has now declared war on Megaman so I doubt we're going see a new X series game.) I enjoy some old school stuff sprinkled in with the batch of newer games and series. All that said there, I definitely have a point where a company is just churning out 90% of the same game and needs to put a bit more effort into it before I see another one. If nothing else wait a couple years and let me miss the game. Even if you don't change it much, give me some time to fully absorb the previous game before I get another one tossed at me so I can appreciate the differences. Hammering me with the same experience over and over in a short time period is a recipe for me to lose interest as a fan. There's plenty of worse offenders than Mario in terms of beating dead horses with little change.

I think nintendo is pushing their retro angle a bit too hard, especially with a new mario game in both barrels on 3DS and wii U. Stagger them out a bit will ya? I ultimately skip the bulk of Nintendo's systems since N64(last Zelda I gave a crap about was OoT and Link to the past. Mario cart got stale after double dash.), so I suppose i wasn't their target audience anyways. Last new system of theirs I bought was a DS. I can play Wii at my friends and that's good enough for me.

I understand why he does those shorts, he is trying to make things different from the other shows. He is also a movie critic and most critics want to make films themselves, the show allows him to use his audience as a board for his creative side but also allows him to let out his creative side.
If Moviebob wants show his creative side...here's major step to showing creativity......DONT NAME EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON THE SHOW *INSERT NAME* THINKER.(Anti, Retro, Cryo,pyro thinker.)I could understood one as the whole evil opposite deal(I get the whole Antithinker as the Bro-core strawman.), but it's all of them.(which I won't be surprised if there's plenty more.) It makes you look not only that you are just flat out stuck on yourself(I'll name this character on my show Firstjustice, Injustice, Second Justice, Harshjustice...yeah that's lame if I did that.), but you have the creativity of Rob Liefeld. It doesn't help the side characters are Commissioner Bunnyface and Ivan. (Navi spelled backwards.)There's other stuff but that is the cherry in the turd on top of what could been an edible sunday.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Mario reminds me of Katamari Damacy and the Simpsons.

Katamari in that it used to be good, but then all the sequels became the same thing over and over. I'm a huge Katamari fan and I've only played a small amount of Mario (I had a Playstation and not an N64 back in the day), and even I can recognize it's the same old story, same old song and dance (my friend).

But Katamari bowed out after being milked for sequels. Mario just keeps going, kind of like the Simpsons.
 

McMarbles

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How did this become a topic about Bob Chipman?

Oh, right... Mario was mentioned, and as the only person on the Internet who still likes Mario (as everyone knows those games don't sell at all) who's not allowed to express his opinion, he MUST be referred to.
 

Starik20X6

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All well and good, but don't you think after over 25 years of constant innovation, Mario can have a break and just coast for a little bit? Besides, we weren't all alive for the beginning of Mario, so games like the New Super Mario Bros. series are great for people like myself who started around the N64 era.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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I just can't get into Super Mario or any Nintendo title anymore. I got Super Mario 3D Land and was sorely disappointed. Like Jim points out, the quality is there, but the spark isn't. It's GOOD it's just not GREAT.

I used to be really 'wowed' by Nintendo games. They always make about four or five excellent games that make their consoles worth buying (I buy the handhelds for 3rd party titles), but they're counting waaaay too heavily on that these days. I was severely underwhelmed by Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Skyward Sword. I think that those of us that have been there since the beginning and don't have a hard on for retro gaming are getting tired. There's better stuff out there.

Will I get a WiiU? The answer is 'probably', just because I always like having all the consoles... but I don't know. I'm not looking forward to buying a next gen console with last generation graphics again. Nintendo is always stuck in the past, in more ways than one, and while I respect the hell out of them for always trying new things with their hardware, they need to remember to bump their software up as well.

I feel like this week's podcast can pretty much apply to any Nintendo game, not just Mario.
 

Atmos Duality

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I arrived at that state well before today.
Honestly: Apart from nifty perspective hacks, I didn't even find Super Mario Galaxy to be anything other than a retread of previous 3D Mario titles (tastefully Frankensteined).

Keep in mind, these aren't BAD games. They are mechanically of high quality, visually coherent, and very polished.
But I can not care about them at all.

The best I can say about Mario games today, is that at least the new generation of gamers can play and enjoy them.
 

Evil Smurf

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ThePS1Fan said:
LoZ is the only Nintendo franchise I even care about at this point. Can't really be bothered to talk about Mario games when I'm completely apathetic towards them.
Super Paper Mario is the only recent Mario game I find fun.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Azuaron said:
I'm apparently a war criminal.

Platformers are, by and large, boring for me.
hmm me too.

interesting video from someone with a passion for the genre but yeah not a genre i like. actually its more a case of detest with a passion yet i still decided to watch to see what jim had to say about it and its issues
 

surg3n

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Fair enough, Mario games are a bit hackneyed - but I don't think it's fair to claim that Meat Boy is a better game, it's not - just because it's an indi game and liking an indi game is somehow edgy and unique, it doesn't change the fact that Meat Boy is just an average platformer. Seriously, I've played mario games a lot more than Meat Boy, and I'd rather play any Mario game than Meat Boy.

I'm not saying Meat Boy is a bad game, but it's damn over-rated... it's a hunk of meat, the gameplay mechanics are entirely unoriginal, we've seen everything in Meat Boy several times before. For me, Mario games are about the mechanics, the unique platforms for instance than rotate, or move, or desintigrate, or do anything more clever than just stand there. Mario games always try to be more than just platform games, Meat Boy is just a platform game. Rayman, is a well animated platform game. Neither Rayman nor Meat Boy has really brought anything new, it seems that in that marketplace, it's only Nintendo that get anywhere close to innovation. These games have a lot of polish, game mechanics that go beyond the standard 2D game, and that started with Mario. Look at Kirby as well for example - vastly under-rated platform games that have so many unique features, but most gamers dismiss Kirby games as shallow and aimed at children. In terms of game mechanics and complexity - Meat Boy is retarded compared to even Mario 2, it's no more complex than N+, it's a fluid and enjoyable game, but it's not gonna influence a whole industry.

Frankly I'm just glad that we don't already live in the grey and brown FPS world that AAA titles have created - I'm glad that we still have Mario games and the Wii and Nintendo to bring some colour to gaming. I'm especially looking forward to Pikmin3, which some people might dismiss as being aimed at kids, but actually it's about the most interesting, strategic, nostalgic, and challenging game series you'll come across. The gaming world needs Nintendo and Mario and all the influence that they bring - if it wasn't for Mario, then people might not even like platform games as much as they do - without Mario, platform games might never have evolved past Manic Miner.
 

malestrithe

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hurricanejbb said:
Moviebob is probably going to rage when he sees this. And it'll be fun to watch him rant like a nostaliga-blinded twit.
Follow moviebob's twitter feed? He's already seen the video, likes it, and he agrees to some of the points, calling a lot of them reasonable and sound. He is also not going to lose his mind over them. That's what teenagers and the emotionally immature do.

Those who've done some living realize that people can disagree on things and not descend into verbal shouting matches. This is not 4Chan.
 

TheScottishFella

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McMarbles said:
How did this become a topic about Bob Chipman?

Oh, right... Mario was mentioned, and as the only person on the Internet who still likes Mario (as everyone knows those games don't sell at all) who's not allowed to express his opinion, he MUST be referred to.
Probably because he is a contributor to the site who is very outspoken about how he feels about the Mario games. It's more of a case of the two people both have a show on the same site and is more likely to get into an argument. Personally I'm not interested in seeing an argument because then it's just a shit flinging contest.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
7,190
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brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
I think the issue lies in that no other company has done it better yet. That's what he was getting at. It's not that Mario games are same-y, it's that they are still trying to sell the same old formula when other games are already doing it better.

That's why he feels Dynasty Warriors is okay despite the repetition, because that kind of game hasn't been created more successfully by another developer yet.
 

Balkan

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Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
 

Soak

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Considering we are in the Church of Jimquisition, an amen to that!
Mario Galaxy (along with Twilight Princess & SSBB) was one of the titles i bought the Wii for close after its launch.
Mario Galaxy was fresh and fun, i realy enjoyed playing it. The last funny Mario game was Bowser's Inside story and even that only for its funny writing, considering its gameplay wasn't only copied, but had mayor flaws, like doing the same stupid sequence to reactivate one of Bowser's powers for the tenth time. Then i bought Mario Galaxy 2 and i realised i bought something like a patch for a whole game. Realy, they copy-pasted about 80% of the whole friggin game, whole worlds being exactly the same! This was beyond disappoinment and the last time i bought a Mario game, still sometimes playing one at a friend, but seldom getting hooked and never feeling it would be worth buying myself. Both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword on the other hand sure have most of the same gameplay as the other Zelda titles, but they still were emotionally engaging and had beautiful, unique worlds.
Not to mention that 95% of all games released for the Wii are shit, 3% i spend 5-10 bucks on whenever i see them on sale somewhere and 2% being the real, good games.
To me, this is a clear indicator where Nintendo is going and the direction they are taking stinks.
 

ThunderCavalier

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I have no comment on MovieBob. I agree with some of the issues he brought up on The Big Picture, and while I do disagree with some of his views in that and in his movie reviews, I overall don't find him that bad. Then again, I've tried not to pay him a lot of attention since that whole Mass Effect 3 debacle.

As for Jim, I do agree with his point that Mario's really become a sad, repetitive waste. It's really shiny aesthetic with the same old mechanics that makes up every new Mario platformer, and while they're all technically 'fun' and playable, the fact that they feel so samey doesn't make me feel like I want to spend more money on a game that I feel like I already have.

Mario simply doesn't have enough between each installment to make me feel like I'm getting my $60 worth. Kinda makes me wish that they would make a new Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi game. Those were amazing.
 

trlkly

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I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
 

ThePS1Fan

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Evil Smurf said:
Super Paper Mario is the only recent Mario game I find fun.
I looked at it and thought about buying it but never did. I might still go back and do that though.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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I was sad about no LittleBigPlanet being mentioned as whooping Mario's ass. But then you failed to mention that one really awful N64 Zelda title which just felt like OoT all over again despite being set somewhere else, and all was forgiven.

Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.
I'm sure he'll stop squeeing just as soon as I finish writing this letter to John Riccitiello explaining why I love him and his company. In other words, NEVER.

ThunderCavalier said:
Mario simply doesn't have enough between each installment to make me feel like I'm getting my $60 worth.
Mario games don't cost $60.

SkarKrow said:
Have you played Sonic Colours?

Cuz Sega really kicked Sonic up the arse with that one it's absolutely brilliant, though Generations is amazing I did have a few issues with it that I didn't with Colours, though I'm not going over them for the billionth time.
Have YOU ever played Sonic Colors? I have. It's boring shit. No other game has been able to almost put me to sleep because it's so god-damn boring before, and no other game has since.

Terminate421 said:
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.

The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.

Also no more lives.
NO. iPhones suck for gaming. The controller has buttons on it, and we should be using them to control the actions at all times. I don't want to keep failing at parts of the game simply because the controls suddenly turned into soggy dog shit.
 

GeneralFungi

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trlkly said:
I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
It really didn't sound like you were paying a whole lot of attention to what Jim was even talking about. He was bringing up that footage, explaining how Mario used to be more interesting and how Galaxy was the last Mario title he really truly enjoyed. And as much as I love Mario, I have to agree.
Balkan said:
Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
You seem to have quite a lot of animosity towards MovieBob. I don't think I need to defend him, but this is a topic about discussing MARIO, not a topic where you lash out at people who like Mario. Why don't you discuss MovieBob's opinion on the Mario series in the topic where he actually discusses his opinion about the Mario series? You don't seem to actually care about the topic and just want to use it as a reason to proclaim to the world your dislike of MovieBob. There are more things to discuss in relation to this topic besides one man's opinion, but that's the only thing you and a few other people in this thread seem to be interested in.

I shouldn't even be contributing to this shit but I'll hit the post button against my better judgement.
 

Balkan

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GeneralFungi said:
trlkly said:
I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
It really didn't sound like you were paying a whole lot of attention to what Jim was even talking about. He was bringing up that footage, explaining how Mario used to be more interesting and how Galaxy was the last Mario title he really truly enjoyed. And as much as I love Mario, I have to agree.
Balkan said:
Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
You seem to have quite a lot of animosity towards MovieBob. I don't think I need to defend him, but this is a topic about discussing MARIO, not a topic where you lash out at people who like Mario. Why don't you discuss MovieBob's opinion on the Mario series in the topic where he actually discusses his opinion about the Mario series? You don't seem to actually care about the topic and just want to use it as a reason to proclaim to the world your dislike of MovieBob. There are more things to discuss in relation to this topic besides one man's opinion, but that's the only thing you and a few other people in this thread seem to be interested in.

I shouldn't even be contributing to this shit but I'll hit the post button against my better judgement.
Im just maybe pissed at moviebob`s attitude and the whole nintendo fanbase`s . They whould give money to a company that doesnt deserve it (in my opinion )just because it reminds them of the times when they had hair .
Also im quite pissed of moviebob . For a guy who spend a lot of time giving moral speaches he sure is a hipocratical bastard . I just used it as an example in my earlier comment .
 

Muspelheim

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I don't like Mario. :< Suppose I'm off to Hague, then...

Well, honestly. The only Nintendo product I've ever owned is a Mario-themed Pez-dispencer. And even that is probably a knock-off. I'm just not very interested in Nintendo, and I don't think Mario in any form is going to enhance my life in any way.
 

Reptiloid

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Care to explain what's so wrong about not liking Mario?

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a level of appreciation for the games themselves, but I've personally never liked Mario as a character, and have never quite understood what is supposed to be so endearing about him.

And yes, I did grow up with these games.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, to be honest I think the problem is that Mario is, and always has been, basically a dressed up version of "Jumpman" from platforms like the Commodore 64. Over the decades Mario has really taken the basic jump-oriented platformer idea and ran with it in some crazy directions, the best games are to the point where it's very easy to forget the humble origins and the simplicity of the concept even for those that were there. The thing is that in the end you can only do so much with this basic kind of game, and truthfully Mario did more with it than I would have thought possible, but I think they have reached the limit. It's all variations on things you've seen before, but that's because there really isn't anything left to do within the rules of the franchise. Coming up with something new that works for Mario isn't as easy as you might think. Mario at it's core being flashy, and having depth, but also being extremely casual in that it's approachable to nearly anyone, with the masters being able to really showboat and do all kinds of insane things with it. The problem with most fan ideas coming from masterful Mario players (to get to the point of being bored, and having seen everything to be disappointment) is that a lot of the things they think up wouldn't really be approachable to the basic casual player. Sure you could turn Mario into "I want to be the guy" and get really sadistic with it, and some people would like that, but it wouldn't really be Mario anymore at that point.

I'll also say that a lot of the problem is that we're dealing with a gaming generation here. It's kind of exceptional that there are even franchise that have run 20+ years for this to be an issue. A guy old enough to have played SMB when it first came out on a Nintendo and then played most of the games since, is probably not considering how the newer games look to younger, less jaded gamers. Oddly the serious "hardcore fans" who have followed a franchise like this from the beginning are by becoming hardcore fans, no longer the intended audience. You can't cater to a jaded 35-40 year old veteran while retaining the same casual innocence very well, and truthfully it's bloody amazing how many times they have managed to walk that line as it is.

I do not think a lot of these other titles like "Meat Boy" and others are really better or more innovative than Mario, they are just new, and when your getting tired of something, or frustrated, people tend to wander to the fresh, similar products, and scream their praises a bit too loudly in compared to the originals.

In short, I'm not a huge Mario fan, but I think he's doing fine as things are now, as long as there are new gamers coming in, and parents willing to get products like this for their kids, Mario will continue to have a prescence. Arguably Mario is in a position where he can thrive through consistincy without any innovation at all, which is unusual, so it's pretty good that we see it holding up this well.

Would it be nice to see more from Mario? Well yes, but to be honest I think that involves going into other, but similar, generes, something that seems to have failed,in initial attempts, so Nintendo hasn't stuck with it. I seem to remember games like "Mario Sunshine" getting some decent reviews, but being commercial failures, the fans just not really being there for the games.

This is my opinion at any rate.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
Well, if you listen to Bob and make note of his personality, politics, etc... you can see where this is coming from. Nintendo's products are simply put a perfect match for his personality and world view. I could say more, but it would be long and rambling, and I don't really want to have ongoing arguements about my analysis of Bob, so I'll just leave it at "it doesn't surprise me". Like any critic you have to take the good with the bad, I tend to still listen to a lot of his stuff because of the good points he makes, taking the areas where I don't agree with him with a grain of salt. (and no, this is not tied in any way to people claiming Mario as a socialist icon or anything).

Personally I could give or take Mario, I don't hate him, but I wouldn't call myself a fan of his games either.

Speaking for myself the companies I felt "could do no wrong" simply didn't survive, a lot of them sold out and ceased to be what they were under new management, or just died. I don't really have any favorites when it comes to video games anymore. Bioware was the last one I really defended, and after Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age 2 they have more or less lost my support, but I mostly feel they died because of selling out to EA.

There is a chance, albiet a small one, that if Richard Garriot really gets going again and can recapture the old magic without getting tied into something like EA or Activision that I might become a company fanboy again. To say that the Ultima games were among my favorites of all time would be an understatement, if he goes back to single player game development like he's commented on, and gets that mojo back with some new series... well I've long dreamed of it. Of course it's been a loooong time, so I'm not holding my breath any more than I am for someone like DW Bradley getting a team together to actually make Wizardry 9. :)
 

TheScottishFella

The Know-it all Detective
Nov 9, 2009
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Therumancer said:
connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
-snip, snip-
I completely understand where Bob comes from with Nintendo, since that is the company he grew up with as a child and Bob does raise some great points, but when he does a TGO that is a general overview of the industry the episode really suffers because of his attachments to Nintendo.

Again I understand why he does it, and it's really understandable but his episodes can suffer as a result of it.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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I must be a war criminal for my penis certainly does not have a mouth.
Also, you said Last good mario was in 2007, incindentaly, i think last good anything coming out of nintendo was in 2007 so yeah i guess you got a point.
 

Undeadpool

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brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
 

brazuca

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Undeadpool said:
brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
Actually you should begin counting from COD 2, in 2005.
 

TheDrunkNinja

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This entire episode might as well be a middle finger to people like the Game Overthinker. . . . .

. . . . . Jim, you are now my favorite person in the world. This week.
 

gonephishing

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I'd love this guy if he wasn't such a fucking prick. Yeah I get it's supposed to be ironic, but it doesn't come off that way, and it isn't endearing. He makes a good point half the time and I can't help but enjoy listening to him rant, but the self-aggrandizement narcissism is just disgusting...
That being said; I watch every week, so I guess I'm a hypocrite.
 

mrhateful

True Gamer
Apr 8, 2010
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"If you have any respect for Nintendo..." Let me stop you right there mister. I have never played an Nintendo game and I properly never will from what I have seen its awful boring games played only by people who played the first games on the NES.
 

lostlevel

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I was once a Nintendo fan, Gamecube had my favorite all time controller (it was just so damn comfy) but I had Nintendo Wii since launch and my enthusiasm ended after all the lazy ports and re-packaged version of old game with worse controls and some case worse graphics that they had on Gamecube. Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, and SSX Blur are the only games I can really remember playing that were different to how they always are.

I should probably mention that I pretty much gave my Wii away in the end.
 

Beautiful End

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Dear Jim,

I agree.

Sincerely, me.

I could leave now but...eh, what the hell.
I grew up with Nintendo. I was a Nintendo follower for the longest time. Even when my parents bought us a PS1 instead of a 64, I had high hopes of getting one someday. Or a GameCube, when it was released later on. But once I opened my eyes to other franchises and went back and compared them, Nintendo started falling behind. The Wii was the finishing blow.
Mario games were awesome for a while. But it's true; Nintendo ran out of tricks and they're just doing the same thing over and over again. When they released New Super Mario for both DS and Wii, I thought it was a bit cheap. I mean, you didn't exactly get Mario 64 for the Gameboy Color, right? Or Mario World for the original Gameboy, right? But alright, I though. They're allowing people with different systems to play the same game. I suppose that's okay.

But then Mario 64 DID come out for the DS. And Mario Kart. Okay, I said skeptically. Maybe they want the generation of kids to enjoy those games. And then they announced New Super Mario 2, which looks EXACTLY the same as the first one,except for, you know, coins. They're literally bribing you to play the new game now. "WHOOO! Coins all over the place! Buy the new game!". (Don't take that last statement too seriously, come on).

It's all about giving the player something different to look at so you can literally differentiate the first version of the game from the sequel. Games like the Jak saga this did beautifully. It was essentially the same gameplay and characters but the setting and the plot were different. Like Jim said, Zelda does the same. Characters are the same, plot's the same but now instead of exploring Hyrule while riding Epona, you ride a giant bird and surf the skies. Little change, big difference. The game simply looks different.

But looking back at Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 or New Super Mario 1 and 2 or all the Mario karts ever since Mario Kart 64, they all look the same for the most part. That's when you know you've done something wrong. You'd never look at Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess and confuse one with the other (Unless you don't like Zelda?).

Personally, I buy a Mario game every decade or so. I know I'm not missing on much. Not only that but they're making them too kid friendly nowadays. And no, it's not me getting better. They're just too easy. Mario World still gives me a challenge and even though I've played it a million times, I'm always up for another run.
Oh, and that's also the same reason why I'm apathetic towards the WiiU. Looks the same, probably feels the same (Oh, wait: "One tablet controller! Whoo! Technology! Hip and cool!"), the library of games is not that impressive or original. Maybe there's like two exceptions but that's about it. It amounts to nothing anyway.

Nintendo's getting a bit too comfortable with that repetition system. I guess they already realized they've fallen behind so much by now that there's no point in trying anymore.
 

Beautiful End

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mjc0961 said:
Terminate421 said:
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.

The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.

Also no more lives.
NO. iPhones suck for gaming. The controller has buttons on it, and we should be using them to control the actions at all times. I don't want to keep failing at parts of the game simply because the controls suddenly turned into soggy dog shit.
You, person, have ninja'd me. And I thank you.

I'm not dumb or anything but I don't want to look at the screen then back at the hybrid tablet/controller then back at the screen only to find out I've died. What is this, an Old Spice commercial? Just let me plop on my couch and play the stupid game! And yes, it is distracting. The DS kinda pulled it off because you're looking at the whole system, screen and buttons alike. Your eyes just flicker for a moment when you try to look at both screen. But unless I plan on playing my WiiU as if I was holding a steering wheel (Which I don't), then it's just distracting. And yeah, it does alienate the one player who's holding that remote thing, for better or for worse.

Nintendo's just trying to be a cool kid at this point, copying someone e'se's gimmicks and tricks.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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I'm sad Jim didn't dress up as Mario :( He would look so cute.

At first I was like 'but Mario Galaxy was different and awesome' and then Jim was like 'yeah but that was in 2009' and I was like....-.- goddamn I'm old.

I do think maybe the DS Mario's are great for kids to play who are new to Mario. Not everyone was there the first time around.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Old Man Mario

Everybody knows Mario, most people love him, but is Mario being Mario enough anymore?

Watch Video
Isn't this a problem with the industry as a whole, rather than just with Nintendo? But sure, I agree that Mario is going nowhere fast.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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You earned points in my book, Jim, for pointing to Zelda as a way to do derivative concepts RIGHT. Too many people ***** about how Zelda is "the same thing over and over" every time a new title is announced whilst simultaneously gushing like rabid fanbois over the next God of War or Call of Duty. In fact, Zelda is probably my favorite franchise simply by virtue of the fact that it manages to take "the same thing" and make it new and exciting every time I play it, so I feel like I'm playing a completely different game.

While the core concept of every Zelda game is roughly the same, the world and the way the game is played makes enough of a change that you really are getting a different experience out of each one. Which is why I maintain that new Zelda titles aren't "the same thing over and over", because they differ significantly more between titles than most franchises out there.

Yosharian said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Old Man Mario

Everybody knows Mario, most people love him, but is Mario being Mario enough anymore?

Watch Video
Isn't this a problem with the industry as a whole, rather than just with Nintendo? But sure, I agree that Mario is going nowhere fast.
It is a problem with the whole industry, yeah. Call of Duty has been doing it for a long time (as have other FPS games), MMOs are all copying WoW, etc. He's just pointing out that even Nintendo is starting to go down this route, with their Mario titles being sadly very derivative.
 

Undeadpool

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brazuca said:
Undeadpool said:
brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
Actually you should begin counting from COD 2, in 2005.
Except for the entire revamp of the setting and weapons...that's why I started from Mario 64, not Super Mario Bros.
 

Daget Sparrow

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Jim.

As much as Dust: An Elysian Tail may be more interesting than the latest Mario games...I cannot stand it. I've tried so hard to love it (I loved The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai for example, also a samurai game made by one guy and with a stereotypical samurai amnesia story), but I simply cannot get past the demo without cringing at the dialogue and cliche.

Not that anyone will ever read this, but I needed to get that point out before I finished the video.