Jimquisition: Old Man Mario

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Balkan

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Sep 5, 2011
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GeneralFungi said:
trlkly said:
I love how you complained about the games being the same, while showing tons of innovations, like the piano level, or the Galaxy gravity mechanic.
It really didn't sound like you were paying a whole lot of attention to what Jim was even talking about. He was bringing up that footage, explaining how Mario used to be more interesting and how Galaxy was the last Mario title he really truly enjoyed. And as much as I love Mario, I have to agree.
Balkan said:
Gatx said:
Dynasty Warriors is repetitive sure, but there's also been very little innovation amongst the games as a series. I mean you have the big change in 6 but then what?
I think that I have watched that episode , but still what kind of excuse is that ? Only because Mario has inovated he gets a free pass now ? I have heard him give shit to gears of war even if it was a really inovative game back in 06 . Also he gives much shit about HALO even thougt it inovated .Im not a fan of either franchises , but MovieBob is a hipocrate . Everything is bad except the things he likes .
You seem to have quite a lot of animosity towards MovieBob. I don't think I need to defend him, but this is a topic about discussing MARIO, not a topic where you lash out at people who like Mario. Why don't you discuss MovieBob's opinion on the Mario series in the topic where he actually discusses his opinion about the Mario series? You don't seem to actually care about the topic and just want to use it as a reason to proclaim to the world your dislike of MovieBob. There are more things to discuss in relation to this topic besides one man's opinion, but that's the only thing you and a few other people in this thread seem to be interested in.

I shouldn't even be contributing to this shit but I'll hit the post button against my better judgement.
Im just maybe pissed at moviebob`s attitude and the whole nintendo fanbase`s . They whould give money to a company that doesnt deserve it (in my opinion )just because it reminds them of the times when they had hair .
Also im quite pissed of moviebob . For a guy who spend a lot of time giving moral speaches he sure is a hipocratical bastard . I just used it as an example in my earlier comment .
 

Muspelheim

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Apr 7, 2011
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I don't like Mario. :< Suppose I'm off to Hague, then...

Well, honestly. The only Nintendo product I've ever owned is a Mario-themed Pez-dispencer. And even that is probably a knock-off. I'm just not very interested in Nintendo, and I don't think Mario in any form is going to enhance my life in any way.
 

Reptiloid

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Nov 10, 2010
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Care to explain what's so wrong about not liking Mario?

Don't get me wrong, I've always had a level of appreciation for the games themselves, but I've personally never liked Mario as a character, and have never quite understood what is supposed to be so endearing about him.

And yes, I did grow up with these games.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Well, to be honest I think the problem is that Mario is, and always has been, basically a dressed up version of "Jumpman" from platforms like the Commodore 64. Over the decades Mario has really taken the basic jump-oriented platformer idea and ran with it in some crazy directions, the best games are to the point where it's very easy to forget the humble origins and the simplicity of the concept even for those that were there. The thing is that in the end you can only do so much with this basic kind of game, and truthfully Mario did more with it than I would have thought possible, but I think they have reached the limit. It's all variations on things you've seen before, but that's because there really isn't anything left to do within the rules of the franchise. Coming up with something new that works for Mario isn't as easy as you might think. Mario at it's core being flashy, and having depth, but also being extremely casual in that it's approachable to nearly anyone, with the masters being able to really showboat and do all kinds of insane things with it. The problem with most fan ideas coming from masterful Mario players (to get to the point of being bored, and having seen everything to be disappointment) is that a lot of the things they think up wouldn't really be approachable to the basic casual player. Sure you could turn Mario into "I want to be the guy" and get really sadistic with it, and some people would like that, but it wouldn't really be Mario anymore at that point.

I'll also say that a lot of the problem is that we're dealing with a gaming generation here. It's kind of exceptional that there are even franchise that have run 20+ years for this to be an issue. A guy old enough to have played SMB when it first came out on a Nintendo and then played most of the games since, is probably not considering how the newer games look to younger, less jaded gamers. Oddly the serious "hardcore fans" who have followed a franchise like this from the beginning are by becoming hardcore fans, no longer the intended audience. You can't cater to a jaded 35-40 year old veteran while retaining the same casual innocence very well, and truthfully it's bloody amazing how many times they have managed to walk that line as it is.

I do not think a lot of these other titles like "Meat Boy" and others are really better or more innovative than Mario, they are just new, and when your getting tired of something, or frustrated, people tend to wander to the fresh, similar products, and scream their praises a bit too loudly in compared to the originals.

In short, I'm not a huge Mario fan, but I think he's doing fine as things are now, as long as there are new gamers coming in, and parents willing to get products like this for their kids, Mario will continue to have a prescence. Arguably Mario is in a position where he can thrive through consistincy without any innovation at all, which is unusual, so it's pretty good that we see it holding up this well.

Would it be nice to see more from Mario? Well yes, but to be honest I think that involves going into other, but similar, generes, something that seems to have failed,in initial attempts, so Nintendo hasn't stuck with it. I seem to remember games like "Mario Sunshine" getting some decent reviews, but being commercial failures, the fans just not really being there for the games.

This is my opinion at any rate.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
Well, if you listen to Bob and make note of his personality, politics, etc... you can see where this is coming from. Nintendo's products are simply put a perfect match for his personality and world view. I could say more, but it would be long and rambling, and I don't really want to have ongoing arguements about my analysis of Bob, so I'll just leave it at "it doesn't surprise me". Like any critic you have to take the good with the bad, I tend to still listen to a lot of his stuff because of the good points he makes, taking the areas where I don't agree with him with a grain of salt. (and no, this is not tied in any way to people claiming Mario as a socialist icon or anything).

Personally I could give or take Mario, I don't hate him, but I wouldn't call myself a fan of his games either.

Speaking for myself the companies I felt "could do no wrong" simply didn't survive, a lot of them sold out and ceased to be what they were under new management, or just died. I don't really have any favorites when it comes to video games anymore. Bioware was the last one I really defended, and after Mass Effect 3, and Dragon Age 2 they have more or less lost my support, but I mostly feel they died because of selling out to EA.

There is a chance, albiet a small one, that if Richard Garriot really gets going again and can recapture the old magic without getting tied into something like EA or Activision that I might become a company fanboy again. To say that the Ultima games were among my favorites of all time would be an understatement, if he goes back to single player game development like he's commented on, and gets that mojo back with some new series... well I've long dreamed of it. Of course it's been a loooong time, so I'm not holding my breath any more than I am for someone like DW Bradley getting a team together to actually make Wizardry 9. :)
 

TheScottishFella

The Know-it all Detective
Nov 9, 2009
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Therumancer said:
connall said:
Soviet Heavy said:
I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.
I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.
-snip, snip-
I completely understand where Bob comes from with Nintendo, since that is the company he grew up with as a child and Bob does raise some great points, but when he does a TGO that is a general overview of the industry the episode really suffers because of his attachments to Nintendo.

Again I understand why he does it, and it's really understandable but his episodes can suffer as a result of it.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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I must be a war criminal for my penis certainly does not have a mouth.
Also, you said Last good mario was in 2007, incindentaly, i think last good anything coming out of nintendo was in 2007 so yeah i guess you got a point.
 

Undeadpool

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Aug 17, 2009
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brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
 

brazuca

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Undeadpool said:
brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
Actually you should begin counting from COD 2, in 2005.
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Jun 12, 2009
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This entire episode might as well be a middle finger to people like the Game Overthinker. . . . .

. . . . . Jim, you are now my favorite person in the world. This week.
 

gonephishing

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Jun 7, 2010
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I'd love this guy if he wasn't such a fucking prick. Yeah I get it's supposed to be ironic, but it doesn't come off that way, and it isn't endearing. He makes a good point half the time and I can't help but enjoy listening to him rant, but the self-aggrandizement narcissism is just disgusting...
That being said; I watch every week, so I guess I'm a hypocrite.
 

mrhateful

True Gamer
Apr 8, 2010
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"If you have any respect for Nintendo..." Let me stop you right there mister. I have never played an Nintendo game and I properly never will from what I have seen its awful boring games played only by people who played the first games on the NES.
 

lostlevel

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Nov 6, 2008
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I was once a Nintendo fan, Gamecube had my favorite all time controller (it was just so damn comfy) but I had Nintendo Wii since launch and my enthusiasm ended after all the lazy ports and re-packaged version of old game with worse controls and some case worse graphics that they had on Gamecube. Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, and SSX Blur are the only games I can really remember playing that were different to how they always are.

I should probably mention that I pretty much gave my Wii away in the end.
 

Beautiful End

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Feb 15, 2011
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Dear Jim,

I agree.

Sincerely, me.

I could leave now but...eh, what the hell.
I grew up with Nintendo. I was a Nintendo follower for the longest time. Even when my parents bought us a PS1 instead of a 64, I had high hopes of getting one someday. Or a GameCube, when it was released later on. But once I opened my eyes to other franchises and went back and compared them, Nintendo started falling behind. The Wii was the finishing blow.
Mario games were awesome for a while. But it's true; Nintendo ran out of tricks and they're just doing the same thing over and over again. When they released New Super Mario for both DS and Wii, I thought it was a bit cheap. I mean, you didn't exactly get Mario 64 for the Gameboy Color, right? Or Mario World for the original Gameboy, right? But alright, I though. They're allowing people with different systems to play the same game. I suppose that's okay.

But then Mario 64 DID come out for the DS. And Mario Kart. Okay, I said skeptically. Maybe they want the generation of kids to enjoy those games. And then they announced New Super Mario 2, which looks EXACTLY the same as the first one,except for, you know, coins. They're literally bribing you to play the new game now. "WHOOO! Coins all over the place! Buy the new game!". (Don't take that last statement too seriously, come on).

It's all about giving the player something different to look at so you can literally differentiate the first version of the game from the sequel. Games like the Jak saga this did beautifully. It was essentially the same gameplay and characters but the setting and the plot were different. Like Jim said, Zelda does the same. Characters are the same, plot's the same but now instead of exploring Hyrule while riding Epona, you ride a giant bird and surf the skies. Little change, big difference. The game simply looks different.

But looking back at Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 or New Super Mario 1 and 2 or all the Mario karts ever since Mario Kart 64, they all look the same for the most part. That's when you know you've done something wrong. You'd never look at Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess and confuse one with the other (Unless you don't like Zelda?).

Personally, I buy a Mario game every decade or so. I know I'm not missing on much. Not only that but they're making them too kid friendly nowadays. And no, it's not me getting better. They're just too easy. Mario World still gives me a challenge and even though I've played it a million times, I'm always up for another run.
Oh, and that's also the same reason why I'm apathetic towards the WiiU. Looks the same, probably feels the same (Oh, wait: "One tablet controller! Whoo! Technology! Hip and cool!"), the library of games is not that impressive or original. Maybe there's like two exceptions but that's about it. It amounts to nothing anyway.

Nintendo's getting a bit too comfortable with that repetition system. I guess they already realized they've fallen behind so much by now that there's no point in trying anymore.
 

Beautiful End

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Feb 15, 2011
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mjc0961 said:
Terminate421 said:
Here is an idea, mix how you navigate.

The WiiU controller's screen has a way of moving, sort of swapping the controls to "iPhone" mode for a section or some element of gameplay. To keep it from being a gimmick, the whole game is centered around this while still providing the fun and challenge of a typical mario game.

Also no more lives.
NO. iPhones suck for gaming. The controller has buttons on it, and we should be using them to control the actions at all times. I don't want to keep failing at parts of the game simply because the controls suddenly turned into soggy dog shit.
You, person, have ninja'd me. And I thank you.

I'm not dumb or anything but I don't want to look at the screen then back at the hybrid tablet/controller then back at the screen only to find out I've died. What is this, an Old Spice commercial? Just let me plop on my couch and play the stupid game! And yes, it is distracting. The DS kinda pulled it off because you're looking at the whole system, screen and buttons alike. Your eyes just flicker for a moment when you try to look at both screen. But unless I plan on playing my WiiU as if I was holding a steering wheel (Which I don't), then it's just distracting. And yeah, it does alienate the one player who's holding that remote thing, for better or for worse.

Nintendo's just trying to be a cool kid at this point, copying someone e'se's gimmicks and tricks.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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I'm sad Jim didn't dress up as Mario :( He would look so cute.

At first I was like 'but Mario Galaxy was different and awesome' and then Jim was like 'yeah but that was in 2009' and I was like....-.- goddamn I'm old.

I do think maybe the DS Mario's are great for kids to play who are new to Mario. Not everyone was there the first time around.
 

Undeadpool

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Aug 17, 2009
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brazuca said:
Undeadpool said:
brazuca said:
CoD has been doing the same for years and look what they achieved.
There's a pretty marked difference between difference between 5 years (Modern Warfare's release) and 16 years (Mario 64's release).
Actually you should begin counting from COD 2, in 2005.
Except for the entire revamp of the setting and weapons...that's why I started from Mario 64, not Super Mario Bros.
 

Daget Sparrow

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Oct 2, 2011
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Jim.

As much as Dust: An Elysian Tail may be more interesting than the latest Mario games...I cannot stand it. I've tried so hard to love it (I loved The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai for example, also a samurai game made by one guy and with a stereotypical samurai amnesia story), but I simply cannot get past the demo without cringing at the dialogue and cliche.

Not that anyone will ever read this, but I needed to get that point out before I finished the video.