Jimquisition: Old Man Mario

[Uber Waddles]

Mario has been stagnant now for quite a few years. And yet, why is stagnant a bad thing, from a business perspective?

The Mario brand has built up years of good faith over gamers, and has both enticed new gamers and kept the attention of old gamers. Mario has always been a series that could innovate and guarantee the copy would sell. But innovation is expensive, and Nintendo has been losing money hand over fist.

Mario is able to get away with this recent stagnation because its target audience isn't the people who've been playing him since the NES days. That is a demographic, but Nintendo is focusing on the newer gamers, who aren't familiar with Super Mario Brothers 3 or World. To someone who was not engrossed in them at the time, they're impact is really hard to feel - so borrowing them and packaging them in a newer, shinier package is a way to make money.

A variety of factors go into the success of these stagnant Mario games too. When we compare these Mario games to the competition on the Wii, Mario beats the hell out of almost every title its beside. Say what you want about the Wii, but its releases hit a brick wall, and hard. We also have the die hard Mario fans that don't care - one of the advantages of having such a prestigious brand. We also have the 'Sonic Factor'. Its not going to go away - its too much of a secure money source.

It sucks, but its got too much of a force with hardcore fans and new fans.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.

I agree, it's one reason that I rarely watch Game Overthinker anymore, on occasion he has some interesting points, but when it comes to Nintendo it seems they can do no wrong which really pisses me off. No company is perfect.

As a huge Nintendo fan, that even bothers me to. If you really love something, you want to point out it's flaws, that way it can get better! You want to see it be the best it can be. it isn't love to see only shimmering light where dark cracks are forming, thats fanaticism, and that doesn't help you or what you care so deeply for. After the whole ME3 thing, I was shocked to see him defend Bioware simply because they are a game company, then thumb his nose at the rest of the gaming population because we dared question the almighty 'Game Makers'.

I also agree that the overreaction to the tanuki thing wasn't at all warranted (I am speaking about everyone who overreacted, not just bob). Yeah, it was a nod to a better one of their games from the past, but that's kind of the elephant in the room, isn't it? Mario 3 was a much better game, and all adding Mario 3 powerups to modern games does is remind people there was once a better game.

 

[orangeapples]

Nintendo is a solid company that makes good games, but it seems like they're missing the point of Mario games. Mario games are about exploration of strange new lands and discovering hidden areas on his journey to save Princess Peach from the evil King Bowser.

Collecting coins and speed runs are a side thing that people did once they've played the game enough times. NOT the main point of the game. This "New" Super Mario Bros. 2 (Which can hardly call itself new as it is the 3 of the "new" series; missed the perfect 3D tag there Nintendo) and the coin thing is just ridiculous. This is just as bad as the raccoon tail thing that happened a while back (which itself ruined Mario consistency as now the leaf offers both "tanooki" and raccoon suits) but they slapped that tail onto everything. No. we wanted to have the raccoon tail back because it is iconic (it's the friggen cover of SMB3), not a dumb story where everything has a tail (why does boo have a tail? That makes no sense. It can already fly). And "New" Super Mario Bros. U and the whole "put blocks to accomplish new speed runs" is such a stupid idea. All everyone is gonna do is build a staircase and make a path above the level completely missing the point of the speed run. That or troll their friends by placing blocks in the worst possible spots.

 

[maninahat]

I hope Moviebob watches this so he can stop squeeing over seeing a goddamn tanuki feather in a trailer.

Captcha: Be Serious Now

Yes, yes you should.

Ha ha, very true. Its like he has an obligation to bring it up every episode.

Then again, I wish I could get that excited over that sort of thing. I feel passionless and miserable by comparison.

Also pleased to see that Jim told those "lol hypocrite" commentators to fuck off. Same fucking argument every week, that still some how manages to miss the point of what he was saying about the same old same old.

 

[TheScottishFella]

As a huge Nintendo fan, that even bothers me to. If you really love something, you want to point out it's flaws, that way it can get better! You want to see it be the best it can be. it isn't love to see only shimmering light where dark cracks are forming, thats fanaticism, and that doesn't help you or what you care so deeply for. After the whole ME3 thing, I was shocked to see him defend Bioware simply because they are a game company, then thumb his nose at the rest of the gaming population because we dared question the almighty 'Game Makers'.

I also agree that the overreaction to the tanuki thing wasn't at all warranted (I am speaking about everyone who overreacted, not just bob). Yeah, it was a nod to a better one of their games from the past, but that's kind of the elephant in the room, isn't it? Mario 3 was a much better game, and all adding Mario 3 powerups to modern games does is remind people there was once a better game.

I was worried when I saw I was quoted thought I was going to get some flame. Nice to see that you agree, I mean I love Valve but even I know that they have their problems, nothing is perfect which is one thing that annoys me with many fanboys is alot of the time they refuse to see the flaws of the things they love, I mean just because you acknowledge there is a flaw doesn't mean that as a whole the thing you like isn't decent.

His episode "Eulogii" really highlighted how in some ways this is not the show for him, mainly because he said that there was no originality in gaming and it was a stagnant wasteland where no-one wanted to take risks, completely ignoring the explosion on PC indie titles and to some extent XBOX Live Arcade (even if their practices are questionable.) It just pissed me off.

The ME3 defence was a shocking episode to watch, I personably didn't have too much problem with the ending but I understand how people felt and why, Bob on the other hand openly stated he didn't know what he was talking about regarding the series and had only watched the ending. Getting an outide perspective is nice but I felt he just didn't know what he was talking about, bringing up points and dismissing others even though he had no idea what he was talking about. I like Escape to the Movies but the Game Overthinker I can't watch anymore. It's just he's so Nintendo heavy that it blinds him to the other sides which means he can't look at the industry as a whole.

I stopped watching Game Overthinker because all the interesting opinions are scattered and hidden behind shitty subplots and sketches where Bob gets to think he can direct engaging action and suspense (Protip: e cant). Also he is a massive Fanboy.

Otherwise Nintendo needs to stop running on nostalgia, people are starting to see other than the same Mario, Zelda and Kirby games with a new twist Nintendo has nothing. I want a new F-Zero, Custom Robo, Battalion Wars, Golden Sun or god forgive a new property.

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.

I understand why he does those shorts, he is trying to make things different from the other shows. He is also a movie critic and most critics want to make films themselves, the show allows him to use his audience as a board for his creative side but also allows him to let out his creative side.

Sorry for the long post guys.

 

[Terramax]

I totally get what you are trying to say, and you are right to a point. However I don't agree that anyone has done what Mario does better.

Play Klonoa: Door to Phantomile.

As for my opinion on this video: it's about 5 years too late.

The first Mario Galaxy was pretty bog standard if you ask me.

 

[lord.jeff]

I personally liked Super Mario Bros. 3 wii and how the multiplayer was done added a pretty fresh element but other then that most Mario games are pretty much uninspired. If they handled it like there other series with only a game or two a console, Zelda you get about a three year wait between games with Mario you get about 2 a year.

 

[GLo Jones]

Was it just me, or was he pronouncing Mario as 'Muh-ree-oh' throughout the video?

 

[Mark B]

Mario used to be a system seller, I haven't bought a mario in a long while let alone bought a system for him.

 

[immortalfrieza]

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.

Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"

 

[chiefohara]

Strange... last time i played Mario was super mario bros 1 on the DS, prior to that it was gameboy or snes.

Always liked it, but i don't have nintendo hardware so i missed out on mario 3d galaxy etc. etc. , but the SMB2 for the DS actually had me considering buying it so i could play it on my sisters DS

Guess my point is, i was a lost customer, but im being brought back for the same old same old on this occasion cause its the old school stuff i used to play.

 

[anthony87]

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.

Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"

I dunno. Isn't the main appeal of the Pokemon games the Pokemon themselves? Sure, the "plot" is shite and Black and White 2 will be using the same generation as the last game but aside from that, each new generation has brought a whole new stable of Pokemon to the table along with maybe a tweak or two to the battle system and that's the draw of the series. To catch all the Pokemon.

 

[Triaed]

I quite love Mario Kart 7. I understand it is the "same old" presented in an old way; however, it is a Mario Kart game in my hand-held device and is a BIG improvement over the previous iteration. I like my Mario on the go.

Even though Nintendo is stale, perhaps we need to differentiate between consoles? We are bound to get some repetition.

For the record, I hate Nintendo too

 

[immortalfrieza]

On the subject of rehashes, the Pokemon games have it down.

Exactly, out of all of Nintendo's IPs this is definitely their worst offender. I haven't played a (new, every once in a while I'll go back and play the older ones) Pokemon game in YEARS because of this very fact. The Pokemon games have hardly changed at all from generation to generation, their story has been "beat all the gyms, defeat a team of bad guys, then beat the Elite Four and then your rival" every single game since the francise's invention. There's only been a couple of games (Coliseum and XD) that have blown all the other games out of the water in terms of quality, and they didn't sell well, go figure.

The worst part is the blind lemminglike fans that not only snap up everything with the name Pokemon on it, but don't want any changes to the francise whatsoever, even if those changes would be perfectly beneficial to the francise as a whole. In fact, one of the first threads I ever posted was asking for innovation in the Pokemon games and giving a few suggestions, and most of what I got in response was something along the lines of "POKEMON GAMES MAKE LOTS OF MONEY, THEREFORE THEY ARE PERFECT AND DON'T NEED CHANGES!!!"

I dunno. Isn't the main appeal of the Pokemon games the Pokemon themselves? Sure, the "plot" is shite and Black and White 2 will be using the same generation as the last game but aside from that, each new generation has brought a whole new stable of Pokemon to the table along with maybe a tweak or two to the battle system and that's the draw of the series. To catch all the Pokemon.

If that were the case, they could just have each game be a few areas the player could walk around catching Pokemon and doing nothing else. The main appeal is the battling aspect, but they haven't really done much there either.

 

[ManupBatman]

We need a new Wario game...... Where we kill the Mario!

 

[Signa]

I think you're touching on something incredibly important here Jim: Level design and gameplay mechanics as art. I know you covered art games before, and it's hard to make comparisons between Super Mario and Dear Ester, but games like New Super Mario Brothers show how artistic the design of a level can be (or in NSMB case, the lack of that art and how it affects the game). Nintendo has lost their sense of that art with their Mario games. It used to be where you could go through a level one way, or you could find secrets that net you a few bonuses for skillful playing. Now the Mario games have big arrows pointing "Secret here!" and throw coins at you like they are worth nothing.

I feel like my words aren't flowing right, but I hope you read this and understand what I'm getting at.

 

[MPerce]

Uh.....everything that Jim said.

Last Mario game I bought was Galaxy, and I loved the shit out of it. The years that followed have been filled with sadness and sighs as I wait for the next Mario game that's not a clone of its predecessor.

 

[Drauger]

Mehhh Nintendo been doing this crap since crap i dont remember x_x, the last mario game i liked was mario 64 yeah ._. since then i haven have fun with a mario game, it's soo lame to see nintendo relauching the same old games over and oever and over................................. im sick and tired of Zelda the ocarine of time -.-, i wish i could see a super mario rpg 2 ... no not paper mario, no mario and luigi nope a Super Mario rpg 2.

 

[the1Jugg]

Ok, lets be honest here... Nintendo's past has been checkered when it comes to originality. Super Mario Bros was original - but not the character of Mario, he had been around since Donkey Kong. SMB 2 was only a vast departure because it was ported from a different series. SMB3 had an overworld and very recognizable themed worlds... the same as Super Mario World. SMW2 was Yoshi's island... and that was unique - but nobody wanted it. Super mario 64 was very uniqe because it was mission based. Super Mario sunshine - same as 64 but with a water cannon. Super Mario Galaxy... that was the same as 64, but with gravity all screwed up (dont get me wrong, I loved it). And SMG 2 was just that, a sequel. So, if history repeats, we can expect Mario's next real game (console release) to be a good one. You cant count the handhelds - they never were original (see Super Mario Land, etc)

 

[PunkRex]

I wasn't in to gaming when early Nintendo was about but then I found Wind Waker and Pikmin I was like 'Wow, these guys are good' so I waited... and waited... and waited... Pikmin 2 was fantastic and im about to play Skyward Sword but... thats a long time to wait for two games. Everything else seems to be the same old drival.