Jimquisition: Previewed, Preordered, Prescrewed

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Treblaine

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Aardvaarkman said:
Treblaine said:
I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted.
I don't understand this argument. Elephants aren't very aggressive creatures. They are not hunters. You can walk up to them without being attacked.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive. They are also very vulnerable. They rely on their antiquated suits to survive. They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.
Don't pick apart the semantics of big-game hunting, it certainly doesn't leave the impression of easy kills. FYI, elephants that are hunted do NOT allow people to get close to them and worse than that, when started they will kill who startled them. It's only the ones in protected parks that are so fine with humans even then viewing from a distance.

In WWII in the Normandy Campaign there were specialist Bazooka crews sent out to take out tanks in the dense hedgerow, they were told to approach it like Big game hunting. Now that is not the point where you pedantically point out that elephant aren't trying to kill you like enemy tanks, nor make implausible statements like big game hunting is as easy and trivial as walking up to them and casually shooting them behind the ear.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive.
It's worse than that, they are almost completely passive. The Cops in GTA were more of a threat, if you bumped into their car or did anything other than avoid them you'd get a 1 star rating and they'd be gunning after you. But you can body slam into a Big Daddy with your gun drawn and he may act miffed but he won't initiate any attack till you attack them first. I suppose maybe if you ran into them 20 to thirty times they might attack you.

They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.
Well that's lame. You don't feel like a clever hunter stalking prey, you feel like a bully setting up pranks on a mentally disabled person who can't recognise the obvious threat in front of them.

Big Daddy from a design point of view are supposed to be intimidating, not pitied misfits, but because they make the AI so damn docile they are simply moving furniture.

They compare far worse than other big bosses of video games like Nemesis from Resident Evil 3, he'd stalk you throughout the game and at any time he might enter your area and will attack you on sight. Not in designate boss fight areas but areas you thought you had cleared.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.
Having Big Daddies being far more dangerous, like roving panzer tanks, does not contradict their role in the lore especially after they are repeatedly attacked by splicers and it is their benefit to have dead splicers for the Little Sisters to harvest, they would attack on sight and everyone should run scared from them... as the splicers actually DO, but only the very first encounters. You see it in the first time you meet a Big Daddy, Splicers hear one coming and run away, you are only ignored as you are totally immobilised.

Later it's completely different, splicers and big daddies wander around with each other totally ambivalent to each other.

I mean it should have been if you were spotted by one when you weren't ready you'd have no choice but to run, or play dead. Escape would be based on how they were slower and larger, you could get through holes and hide in places they couldn't get.

I think you are working backwards from "the developers did everything right" rather than think how elements don't work together.
 

Zeldias

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Are preorders really that bad? My Gamestop lets me take the money I put to a preorder and put it on a gift card, and I don't normally put more than five bucks down anyways unless I'm absolutely certain to love the game (Monster Hunter, Etrian Odyssey). The whole shit with getting junk for preordering is weird, but generally doesn't trouble me, although I think it's hilarious that folks will spend 200 dollars on a game to get stuff like a statue and an art book. However, I'm also saying this as a person who specifically bought a Raidou Kuzunoha game to get the Raiho Kuzunoha Jack Frost plushie and was designing a home-made plushie version of Majin from Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom.

I do really dislike the hustle that Jim talks about, though. Misleading "gameplay" demonstrations, DLC season pass hustles, preorder only exclusives: all that shit is awful. But the act of preordering itself hasn't ever given me any trouble.
 

Saviordd1

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Jan 2, 2011
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Vault101 said:
Saviordd1 said:
Yeah well its my 60 dollars that I wasted on a bad game.
bad game? I don't-

you know what? I'm not gonna go there

good day
Writing has a lot of plot holes

Beginning is bad

Plot is meh

Main gameplay system destroyed

Forced characterization

Broken character arcs

Destroyed Cerberus

All around laziness
 

chiefohara

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I dont know if putting a deposit down on a game with Gamestop is strictly pre-ordering to the same detrimetal effect on the industry that Jim is describing, but i have been known to do it.

Mainly it was to guarantee a collectors edition of a game i really like such as FO3, FO:NV, The Gears games etc for myself.

And that is pretty much my only incentive for a deposit/pre-order. Guarantee a collectors edition for myself. I don't see the point otherwise, you can get the standard editions forever.

What will kill pre-ordering or deposits for me is if the collector editions start becoming crap. The ME3 collectors edition was pretty poor in my opinion. No mannual, small uninspiring box, DLC which should have been part of the game in the first place being highlighted as collectors only edition blah blah blah.

A:CM only had what? extra weapons that i probably wont ever use anyway? no thanks.

Something nice like the Fallout new vegas collectors edition with documentary dvd, graphic novel, recreation of the casino chips in a nice little case.... Hell Yeah! ill put a deposit on that!

Gears of war 2 and 3 which had personal effects from the main characters included in the collectors edition, Hell yeah! Opening the COG flag to see Felix's personal effects wrapped inside had a brilliant immersion effect on me, felt like he packed it himself and i was looking into the mans inner soul.

Stuff like that... yes. I will deposit and continue to deposit.

Extra weapon and weapon skin with your pre-order crap though... no thanks.

P.S.
I feel for you Jim, we all know how much you love the Aliens franchise
 

chiefohara

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irishda said:
You are on the ball with a lot of what you are saying, but the movie trailer anaolgy isn't really fair.

You watch a movie trailer, you know all that footage is going to be in the movie. The A:CM trailer showed a lot of stuff that wasn't in the game. Thats where the main fault is.
 

Bujiraso

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Feb 12, 2011
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I'm just gonna throw out a pro-tip that probably half of you don't need to hear:
If this game being garbage, or any other failed promise in the industry, bothers you... Then remember that.
Remember not to trust media or the people who make it. At all.
You don't buy an orange hidden under the counter, you get to pick it up, check its color, and see if it has an appropriate firmness.
The media industries are the only ones that demand cash for something you know nothing about other than the things they tell you -- they, the ones who need to profit off of it.
 

Colt47

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I read in one of the news posts of Randy Pitchfords reply to Jim. Honestly, given the reactions I've seen from just about everyone who was a fan of the Aliens franchise, Jim was pretty justified putting up this episode. The best opinions I've seen of the game have been people claiming the game is so bad it is good thanks to the silliness of the AI, which is bringing back some rather interesting Childhood memories of Privateer 2 the Darkening.
 

Zeles

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Hmmm. How do we know whether or not to trust the devs? Because I don't think that whats being said here is to NEVER preorder a game, but how are we supposed to know if we can trust what we're being shown?

I've preordered KH3D, and wasn't disappointed. I'm considering preordering Bioshock Infinite, despite having never gotten a game from it's devs before.

So how can we tell if the makers of the products are trustworthy?
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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Imperator_DK said:
Ever better graphical production values don't come cheap
I'm going to have to challenge this idea considering graphical quality has hardly been increasing exponentially, and tools to use them are becoming cheaper and of increased productivity.

I mean have you seen the amount of content in Steam's various Workshops? That's made by complete amateurs in their free time. The assets are easier to make and easier to outsource. In the past trying to make a 3D object and animate it was a nightmare, now it's at a level open to anyone.

Cheap and widespread engine licensing means those assets made can more easily be brought together.

What is getting more expensive are things like marketing. I mean mass effect being advertised during the superbowl half-time? That's INSANELY expensive.

Publishers are playing crazy games with money, the simple expenditures in development match well with returns from business, especially over the long tail of sales if there is a long tail, such as with games sold on services with continuous discounting and price cuts such as Gog or Steam.
 

irishda

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chiefohara said:
irishda said:
You are on the ball with a lot of what you are saying, but the movie trailer anaolgy isn't really fair.

You watch a movie trailer, you know all that footage is going to be in the movie. The A:CM trailer showed a lot of stuff that wasn't in the game. Thats where the main fault is.
Unless the footage is from a deleted scene
 

Olas

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Dec 24, 2011
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Not an issue for me, I rarely buy games less than a year after they come out. I finally bought Bioshock a week ago.
 

solemnwar

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Thus far I have pre-ordered:

-Dragon Age II
-Fable 3
-Dead Space 2
-Dishonored
-Mass Effect 3
-Dead Space 3
-Assassin's Creed: Revelations
-Assassin's Creed 3
-Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning

Not one of these games have made me lament my purhcase. I don't like some of them as much as I hoped I would, but I have yet to be dissappointed with a game that I made a pre-order on. I tend to pre-order games from series or publishers that I have consistently gotten good games from, though. Actually the games I've hated have been the ones I've picked out of bargain bins at EB Games. If they weren't on sale for like, $10 I wouldn't have bothered with them. There's some games you just KNOW are going to be bad looking at them...
 

MorphingDragon

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AyaReiko said:
Like I said, I know it won't happen, but name me one other industry other than the video game industry that's developed such an immense and callous disregard for its customers.
All American based industries hate their customers, especially foreign ones. No to mention that the Music and Movie industries are more politically corrupt than the Games industry.
 

chiefohara

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irishda said:
chiefohara said:
irishda said:
You are on the ball with a lot of what you are saying, but the movie trailer anaolgy isn't really fair.

You watch a movie trailer, you know all that footage is going to be in the movie. The A:CM trailer showed a lot of stuff that wasn't in the game. Thats where the main fault is.
Unless the footage is from a deleted scene
Deleted scene still comes on the dvd.

Also pretty big price difference between a 10 euro movie/dvd and a 60 Euro game.

So yeah... still not a fair analogy
 

JohnnyDelRay

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Only thing I've ever preordered is the Witcher 2. Because DLC was promised free, and DRM free really floats my boat. Other than that, I'm happy to wait and see what the game's going to turn out like before I shell out cash. Usually wait until the price comes down a bit as well, season pass and DLC are bullshit. I still prefer the days of working demos and shareware, that was awesome.
 

Tropicaz

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irishda said:
chiefohara said:
irishda said:
You are on the ball with a lot of what you are saying, but the movie trailer anaolgy isn't really fair.

You watch a movie trailer, you know all that footage is going to be in the movie. The A:CM trailer showed a lot of stuff that wasn't in the game. Thats where the main fault is.
Unless the footage is from a deleted scene
But with A:CM It's like the trailer for the movie was showing a great, tense film with Morgan Freeman and Joseph Gordon Levitt, directed by Christopher Nolan. And then when you go to see the film it's actually starring Tyler Perry and Hayden Christensen, and is directed by Michael Bay. What that trailer showed was nothing of what you got in the game
 

Lord_Jaroh

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Aardvaarkman said:
Lord_Jaroh said:
What's funny about all of those things is that if you are not happy with the final "product" you can take your product back for a refund...

Kickstarter is less like a pre-order and more of an investment, however.
You can get a refund on games you are not happy with... since when wasn't this the case? How is this different from the food situation?

Kickstarter is not an investment. You aren't buying shares in the company. You don't get any royalties or dividends if the project succeeds. I really don't understand what you're trying to say here, because it is doesn't match reality.
"Investment" does not have to equal monetary return. I am giving them money and in return, I will get a game from it, provided everything works out.

As well, if I purchase a shitty game, let's say Final Fantasy XIII, and I play through it and decide that I do not like this thing, trying to return it to Gamestop or wherever, they will look at me like I am inebriated and offer to purchase that used game off me...