Jimquisition: SimShitty

[Vigormortis]

The last line made the video for me. So sly, Jim, so sly...

I'm hoping Thrikeen and co turn up, just because I'd love to see them defend this shit against Jim's rather forceful and emotive points. As for me, I gave up on this game when Maxis referred to initial tech issues with the phrase "allowing gamers to play the game".

Fuck you. If I pay you for a game, you do not then get to tell me whether I'm allowed to play it or not.

Although given how many people have had their Origin accounts banned by EA, and been unable to play their games, I can't say I'm surprised.

We're not likely to see them in this thread.

For one, even they would realize how foolish they'd seem trying to defend this whole debacle. For another, some have recently managed to get themselves suspended for....well....behaving badly.

Regardless, some of them have to realize the folly of "defending" EA now-a-days, right? I mean, at this point, it's like Battered Person Syndrome.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I don't play the Sim games, so I had no idea this was happening, but god damn. This shit is ridiculous. Thank you Jim for bringing this up.

Also, whenever I buy EA games from now on, I'll certainly be waiting until after the first 2 weeks.

And of course, as a good upstanding, law abiding citizen, I would [i/]never[/i] even [i/]consider[/i] piracy, just as Jim cannot [i/]possibly[/i] comment on whether a person should pirate these games...

Spoiler: nudge nudge wink wink

[img/]http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//89/15/8915d5687155704c1caf351dff85d530.jpg[/img]

 

[Yoshi Dragon]

Pirates may have mere "kinks" with server emulation.

But what incredibly unreliability have legitimate consumers been left with from the DRM saddled versions? Pretty legendarily bad.

Pirates have mere "kinks" after SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS.

EA will likely fix this whole thing completely by next week.

There's a difference, man. Don't talk like there isn't.

uh no they probably wont. D3 continued to have connectivity and lag issues weeks after launch and according to some (wouldnt know dont play it myself) still does.
the companies could be getting better but arent investing the cash and time to do so. pirates will only getting better at cracking this server thing

 

[vxicepickxv]

I think I'll go with the best option, and just ignore it.

I won't pirate it, I won't buy it.

I'll just play something else. Like Simcity 2000 from gog.com

 

[Nurb]

I never thought the younger gamer generations would be the corporate defenders and the older ones demanding to actually own what you pay for and that gaming isn't a service.

Here's a soon-to-be-reality situation:
You're at home, waching streaming movies and TV or playing your always-online game library and suddenly your cable service goes out for a few hours. Now what? I guess you could read a book.

And remember:
When EA decides to shut the server off in a couple years to make you buy a sequel or they just don't feel it's cost effective, you've lost a game permanently. Oh, they might possibly maybe patch an offline mode if they feel like it? Well imagine the better reception and less hate they would have recieved if they did that in the first place.

And their customer service...

 

[TheRealCJ]

I'd be careful, if I were you Jim. Mentioning "pirating games" on this site is a good way to get permabannned.

 

[Entitled]

See that's the thing about online DRM: with all its colossal failures, EA still has something to be happy about - the nullifying of piracy within the first few weeks.

And are you sure that EA should be happy about that?

This line of thinking only works if you accept the publishers' assumption, that stopping piracy leads to extra sales by forcing pirates to pay.

Which appears to make sense on the short term: among all those "ideological pirates", and the "poor Ukranian college student" pirates, and the "trying before buying" pirates, there must be at least SOME freeloaders who are just taking the path of least resistance, and trying to spare some money by tring to avoid payment as long as it's easy.

But on the long term?

Diablo 3 and Sim City 2013 were bought (and played) by a lot of people. But how many will buy Diablo 4 or Sim City 2015?

I'm not even talking about fan rage, but simple hype math. Let's say that 90% of gamers are pirates, and 10% can be turned):

Game A has 1 million buyers and 10 million extra pirate players.
Game B has 2 million buyers and it has piracy eliminated.

On the long term, should the publisher of Game B really feel happy about that? Game A will get more word of mouth, more news reports on sites (that don't care which players their ad revenue is coming from), more references in mainstream media, more forum avatars, more threads, and a more lively fan community.

Two years later, Game A/2 will easily reach 2 million sales (through 20 million players).
But how much will Game B/2 grow, after it so successfully locked out most of it's potential supporters and guaranteed it's own isolation from pop-culture?

The only way to bet on that strategy would be, if you would have certain data that in the actual numbers to fill in for these placeholders, the benefits of stopping piracy actually outweight the benefits of having piracy.

Before they can do that, simply assuming that "piracy is ultimately harmful, because it has some negative effects" just doesn't add up.

 

[mfeff]

In exchange Sony lets Microsoft have Blu-Ray.

This caught my eye. You do know Sony is only part of the BD consortium and doesn't really have the authority to stop Microsoft from using BD, right? In fact, I can't remember the name, but BD technology uses an existing Microsoft patent. They get a small amount of money for every BD drive manufactured, including the Playstation 3. This is not even uncommon because, outside of video games, they're really not rivals at all. Even in gaming it remains debatable, as they seem to not really compete except in the sense of seeing who can come up with the dumbest new ideas for otherwise adequate systems.

Hmm that seems odd. Not saying I am not nodding, just odd that if MS had BD as a proprietary technology why on earth did they attempt to leverage the HD-DVD? So lemme dig into this and figure out where I made a boo boo.

First Meeting of Blu-ray DiscTM Patent Holders Held
Progress Made, Input Welcomed in Creation of Joint Patent License
(Denver, Colorado USA ? 20 July 2006) ? MPEG LA announced today that the first meeting of essential
Blu-ray DiscTM patent owners, consisting of 17 companies, was held in Los Angeles on July 6-7 for the
purpose of creating a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatory access to essential
patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses. Participating companies included:
CyberLink Corporation
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi Ltd.
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Warner Home Video Inc.

Going off this list I don't see Microsoft listed... this supports your assertion of "letting this or that", which was a good call. It does indicate that going Blu-Ray means an additional per unit cost, which I suspect is why there has been so much hemming around the topic by Microsoft.

From http://news.cnet.com/does-the-xbox-720-need-blu-ray-to-succeed/

Great. But what about the Blu-ray issue?
There's no way Microsoft will install a Blu-ray drive into the Xbox 720, and to be quite honest, I don't think there's any reason for it to do so. The reasons are simple. First, Microsoft doesn't want to pay a competitor--Sony, the key backer behind the Blu-ray Disc Association--to use its format. Second, and perhaps most important, Microsoft realizes that Blu-ray isn't an ideal format, given the fact Blu-ray's chance of success is very much in doubt.

That indicates to me that Sony is a major player to the BD equation... but I think we can do better.

From http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/games/1296739/xbox-720-release-date-specs-price-rumours

After supporting the losing HD-DVD camp in the HD disc format war, it was surprising how little damage it did to the Xbox 360 over its lifespan.... Recent information would seem to confirm this, with unnamed sources speaking to specialist site The Next Xbox, stating that the next-generation Xbox 360 will include a Blu-ray drive.

From http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/52561-latest-xbox-720-rumours-suggest-absence-blu-ray-drive/

Previous spec leaks concerning the Xbox 720, from bigger name sources than this one, have included a Blu-ray drive in the mix of components. GamesRadar Managing Editor Tom Magrino said of the most recent rumour; "I avoid absolutes as a rule, that said, there is a zero percent chance that the next Xbox will ship without a Blu-ray player," Magrino asserted

"Setting aside the wealth of leaks from reliable sources, Microsoft's strategy for years has been to turn the Xbox into the de facto media hub for every family's living room, not just a game console." He concluded that "It can?t, with a straight face, continue to make that claim without a Blu-ray player, seeing as that is the future of physical media".

So yeah, I am speculating, but not without some source information from whence to speculate. Didn't take into account that BD as a format/medium was a consortium with Sony as a player at the table, not the dealer at the head of the table.

That said I have probably supported your assertion, which isn't a bad thing at all.

My conclusion (updated) is going to be more along the lines of pitching a unit which bundles in some form of service or lease agreement alongside or with the unit itself, out of the card board. Basically it comes down to who you want your service provider to be as a matter of brokerage. Considering how "off the shelf" these units are looking it seems a bit of a head scratch-er as where these companies think the profit is hidden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_consolidation

Maybe something along the lines of a Sony premium service contract which includes some games/movies/cloud/digital download... and Microsoft bundling in Hulu and Netflix with a premium service contract as well as g/m/c/dd.

Maybe go so far as to suggest the units themselves will be feature crippled without service contracts.

As far as devices? Right there with you on that one. Monkey see monkey do I suppose. The goggles for PC is an interesting concept, then again I have been using TrackIR for some time, and with the right game/simulator it is very slick. It wouldn't surprise me to see the goggles attempt to do something similar to this with the track IR feature set built in.

Heck I like to golf, but the motion controls for the golf games... suck. Interface devices (especially with consoles) have been a sort of staple of the industry though. I guess today it is how counter-intuitive some of the games are that utilize these controls have become and/or how poorly they handle out of the box.

Don't really have any skin in this game or debate, or whatever it is. Own a PS3 due to the reasonable BD player and I got a good deal when the local big box couldn't shift em. Occasionally it plays a game, mostly it is a glorified VCR and netflix for the kids. Own Xbox(s) just to play Panzer Dragoon and Lost Odyssey... the first Xbox is hacked to hell and back... both systems, again I got for a song.

The newer consoles just don't do it for me. H2O radiator cooled, SLi'd, OC'd PC ftw I suppose. Really the fall of the console can't come soon enough... the "un-crippling" of PC games (Skyrim comes to mind, New Tomb raider I heard has issues, wouldn't surprise me at some point during SimCity developement that Console wasn't mentioned) has become... well tedious... it's like an unwelcome pet which gets a lot of attention, for all the wrong reasons.

 

[captain_dalan]

if the mainstream gaming industry is doomed to fall, then let it, what comes next is bound to be better anyway, if at least for a decade or so until they get cocky again

 

[Yoshi Dragon]

Spoiler

You brought up diablo 3, it's a good example.
After a few days of server troubles it became stable and sold 12 million copies (source: http://diablo.somepage.com/news/1489-activision-blizzard-q4-2012-earnings-report)
I expect the same to happen here. After the rage-storm is over, people will buy it and enjoy it.

And saying that maxis\EA did this on purpose sounds ridiculous to me. Not only they are loosing money, but they are also hurting their brand, which is in trouble as it is. It's Maxis's first "MMO" title, and i don't think that blizzard was willing to share their secrets.
They screwed up. Badly. But saying that they don't care is an exaggeration.
I don't like always online DRM either, but I am not going to make stuff up to justify my opinion.

let me tell you a little story about a game called torchlight 2
when it first game out everybody in the world who had prebought it was downloading it all pretty much at the second they could. almost noone could use multiplayer because the servers were jammed and crashed. the company that released it got up early got on their forums said sorry our bad we're fixing it and fixed it within 24 to 48 hours.

if a small company like that can do it then larger companies can do it too. sure downloads i can excuse when everone in the world is trying to download your game at the same time noones gonna get the file very fast. but always online servers... welll you should know a little something about the demand thats gonna be placed on your servers and have as many as needed to carry the capacity from day 1. there is no excuse for not doing that.

You are mixing 2 different issues:
1) the time it takes them to fix it: There is a significant difference between Torchlight and Simcity. The amount of players. And I bet the complexity of SimCity is much greater than of Torchlight. I don't think that they are just sitting there taking their time to fix it. It's hard. It will take time. Like I said, they screwed up. And now they are trying to fix it as fast as they can.
2) The necessity of always online DRM: I think they should have separated the DRM from the game, so they could remove it if necessary. But their design was such that the DRM is part of the game. I think it's bad for many reasons. Not being able to play at the first week of launch is not one of them.
Their excuse to putting it there is piracy. And if you look at the bottom lone, at how much money they are going to make, they are probably going to make more with this DRM than what they would have gotten without it, even with all the rage that you see now. So for them it makes a lot of sense to use it.

no it's basically the same issue with a twist.

how long would it really take for them to acquire and put in some new servers. it -shouldnt- take a week. what they ought to do is publicly say oops we're fixing it pull out some of their backup servers hook them up and then order some more servers.
the whole thing from the players point of view would be wrapped up in 72 hours. instead they arent apologizing and instead everyone else is excusing them

 

[Jerry Bender]

Couldn't agree more. Haven't and won't buy a game with always on drm for the single player. Won't pirate them either because if something is sh**, and you steal it, you still end up with sh**. Waste of time.

 

[LackofCertainty]

Okay, okay, I get it. We all hate EA. EA are scumbags. You should never buy EA games at launch. EA won't let you return the game that you wanted so bad you rushed out and got day one.


Doesn't anyone want to bring up the fact that, to EA's credit, they're giving everyone who bought simcity a free game as compensation for the downtime?

We just going to ignore that? Yeah? Okay, continue the rage I guess.



Also, I felt like Jim exagerated a little too much in the video at times. I get that he's angry, but framing it as though EA intentionally undershot the number of servers by such a margin as to make their game unplayable, just to give their customers a middle finger... You probably should've put on a tinfoil hat before saying that. Yes, companies tend to underestimate their server needs slightly, because it is cheaper to add servers than it is to buy ones you don't need, but clearly there were a LOT more people playing day 1 than they expected.

EA is scumy, sure, but stick to the rational rage about them, please. (lord knows they give us plenty of reasons to dislike them, we don't need to make up imaginary reasons as well)

 

[Nurb]

Okay, okay, I get it. We all hate EA. EA are scumbags. You should never buy EA games at launch. EA won't let you return the game that you wanted so bad you rushed out and got day one.


Doesn't anyone want to bring up the fact that, to EA's credit, they're giving everyone who bought simcity a free game as compensation for the downtime?

We just going to ignore that? Yeah? Okay, continue the rage I guess.

All this... That's the part he was talking about us being dogs rolling over for them and begging for scraps

Giving everyone who pre-ordered the game or bought it day-one their money back would be a real gesture.

 

[LackofCertainty]

Okay, okay, I get it. We all hate EA. EA are scumbags. You should never buy EA games at launch. EA won't let you return the game that you wanted so bad you rushed out and got day one.


Doesn't anyone want to bring up the fact that, to EA's credit, they're giving everyone who bought simcity a free game as compensation for the downtime?

We just going to ignore that? Yeah? Okay, continue the rage I guess.

All this... That's the part he was talking about us being dogs rolling over for them and begging for scraps

Giving everyone who pre-ordered the game or bought it day-one their money back would be a real gesture.

It would be, and it is. Which is why EA is doing it. >_>

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57573434-1/after-launch-mess-ea-pledges-free-game-for-simcity-players/

Personally, I don't give two Bleeps, because I didn't rush out and buy SimCity, but now I kinda wish I did. Two for one deals are nice. XD

Edit: Misread your post. *shrug* I'd take a free game, with a game with will be playable in a week or so as a twofer deal. If you want simcity that bad that you rush out and buy it day one, you're probably going to want it again in a week when it's playable, right?

P.S.
Random Thought: I should find a cracked version of SimCity2k. I own an old powermac copy of it, but have long since made the switch to windows so that does me nothing. SimCity4 was a huge disappointment for me, and this new game doesn't look like it's what I'm after either. : /

P.P.S.
Seems it's on GoG, so maybe I'll just buy it again. (although buying a game I already own is something that irks me)

 

[RicoADF]

There is no 'free market' as long as copyright continues to exist.

Second that notion. In the age where ideas are shared ubiquitously across the world copyrights seem arcane at best. Not exclusively owning an idea will not cause an artist to starve. In fact it will protect them and allow them to always be able to use their idea without fear of a company telling them they do not own their own creations. Creative people do not have trouble finding work because they are valued for their creativity and not their intellectual property.

Copyright and IP/trademarks are 2 different things. Copyright as its supose to be used is a good thing. its ment to ensure the creator gets paid for their work. US corporate system screws that over though.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hmm that seems odd. Not saying I am not nodding, just odd that if MS had BD as a proprietary technology why on earth did they attempt to leverage the HD-DVD?

Microsoft got money either way. More importantly, they were pushing their own digital service, which benefited from no clear winner in the physical format wars. I think they even said as much.

 

[Something Amyss]

Copyright and IP/trademarks are 2 different things. Copyright as its supose to be used is a good thing. its ment to ensure the creator gets paid for their work. US corporate system screws that over though.

Copyright IS intellectual property.

Also, copyright as it is supposed to be used is a good thing, but so is trademark and so is the patent process. So what's the point of differentiation?

 

[Treblaine]

Pirates may have mere "kinks" with server emulation.

But what incredibly unreliability have legitimate consumers been left with from the DRM saddled versions? Pretty legendarily bad.

Pirates have mere "kinks" after SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS.

EA will likely fix this whole thing completely by next week.

There's a difference, man. Don't talk like there isn't.

Uhh, the difference is you've found one crack that isn't updated as if it's the only one on a site that is blocked in most countries now.

And a much better organised company Blizzard sill hasn't eliminated the problems inherent to the constant-online connection. I mean each single-player game has to have a server handle more than they would for each user on a 24-player multiplayer server.

 

[Kinitawowi]

I have mixed feelings on the piracy issue. On one hand, there's every indication that Maxis has created a great game, and simply pirating a great game and not supporting the developers that made it is not sitting well with me. On the other hand, the game is not what we have a problem with. It's the service that's the issue, and that's EA's turf.

As long as companies keep up the "game = service" bullshit, we do have a problem with the game and thus it is not a great game.

 

[Danny Ocean]

SimShitty

DRM is back again, and it's here to stay! Games are a service, so we're told, but who do they really serve?

Watch Video

This is the first time I've seen someone knowingly make a House of Cards reference.

God that was a good series.


On the first-two-weeks thing: surely whoever it is that invests the money into video games isn't dumb enough to think that sales mean anything? You can't *really* return games any more. The fact you bought it says nothing at all about whether or not you particularly liked it, especially in the first few weeks.

The surest sign of a game's quality would be change in sales over time, I should think. If it stays constant or goes up, you know you've got a good game.