Jimquisition: SimShitty

[PunkRex]

the documentary in question is this:

That was a good vid, thanks for the link.

 

[Piorn]

I kind of feel sorry for my collegue.
He's in his 30s and isn't really into the gaming debate, because he only plays stuff like farmville, settlers and sim-city.
He was really looking forward to this game, and even took two days off to play it.
I wish I had had the chance to warn him.

 

[I.Muir]

YAAAAARRRRRRR
In any case I wonder how this will go down when consoles too have always online DRM

 

[Treblaine]

But then there is no reason at all to not patch out the DRM as soon as rips appear on torrent sites.

Online server-based DRM isn't a binary issue. Go to the pirate bay and search for Diablo 3. Only the 9th hit is actually diablo 3, and is packed with a server emulator which, I quote, is "still in development so if you have some game issues they will be probably updated in approximately ____ days". So 7+ months after D3's launch they still haven't worked out all the kinks in its crack (unlike non-emulation based cracks which come with a 100% functional game). Sim City is a different kind of game, with a different kind of server.

Pirates may have mere "kinks" with server emulation.

But what incredibly unreliability have legitimate consumers been left with from the DRM saddled versions? Pretty legendarily bad.

 

[mjc0961]

Yeah, well I for one knew that "our game is a service" was just a really poor mask for always online DRM and instantly stopped caring about the game then and there.

Fast forward to know, glad to know that I didn't waste $60 on this nonfunctional garbage. Single player games should always be playable online. Always online should be restricted to multiplayer where you actually need to be connected to play.

 

[Something Amyss]

**Puts on hermit's beard, mud-streaked hair, and loin-cloth and walks into the wilderness to shout from therein...**

Just stop buying it, people!

[capcha: A swift kick does it. So very appropriate.]

Common sense? It's crazy, but it just might work.

People have been saying that the video games industry has been headed for a crash for years. They usually would bring up the problem of video games being mostly derivative and repetitive garbage. I'd usually remain skeptical of these claims, but as DRM and companies blatently punishing the consumer becomes more and more of the focus, I can't help but agree.

You should continue your skepticism.

People have started talking a lot of shit about valve lately, and some of it is very justified, but is it really that hard to understand why people are so in love with them right now?

Valve is beloved for the same reason they were when their client was a clunky, obtrusive piece of crap. You may have never had a problem playing a game offline, but I have, and so have others. "It never happened to me" is the kind of thing that demonstrates why anecdotes aren't really worth much. Meanwhile, EA takes shit for stuff they practically copied off of Valve, so I'm kind of glad to see people stop fellating Valve at this point. They've got a free ride for too long.

What they aren't ignorant of is a loss in revenue, which at this point is going to happen.

Regarding SimCity, or in general? Because if it's the former, then no. Last I looked, SimCity is ne of Amazon's top sellers even after being DE-LISTED. If it's the latter, then when? Because people have been singing that tune for years, now, and it hasn't happened.

Heh. Piracy is sadfortunately not an option as it'll at least take a good long while until there's Sim City server emulation.

See that's the thing about online DRM: with all its colossal failures, EA still has something to be happy about - the nullifying of piracy within the first few weeks.

This is also why they're going to try and stick more games with it in the future. And, like before, a lot of people will buy it because they don't care, and others will buy and then complain anyway.

 

[Something Amyss]

In exchange Sony lets Microsoft have Blu-Ray.

This caught my eye. You do know Sony is only part of the BD consortium and doesn't really have the authority to stop Microsoft from using BD, right? In fact, I can't remember the name, but BD technology uses an existing Microsoft patent. They get a small amount of money for every BD drive manufactured, including the Playstation 3. This is not even uncommon because, outside of video games, they're really not rivals at all. Even in gaming it remains debatable, as they seem to not really compete except in the sense of seeing who can come up with the dumbest new ideas for otherwise adequate systems.

 

[MorganL4]

Nice House of Cards reference there Jim.....

I decided not to buy SimCity the day I found out about "Online Only" So yeah.....

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Jim I wish you'd said more about the free market other than just calling it "precious". Gamers do vote with their wallets, and what they've consistently voted for in the past is good marketing and not (initial) product stability.

Thank god for Jim!

Seriously, thank you for having the balls and integrity to place your face and condemn disgrace. Did you see Friday's Office Chat from Dtoid? How they basically bent over and said: "Yeah, we knew it was going to be bad, people who still complain about it are idiots." WTF!? This are not PR spin doctors, nor corporate shills, these are videogame journalists.

Videogame journalism takes stereotypical flak for being immature, for being about a naive, childish subject or just for being unprofessional. Fact is videogames are a huge market, they move billions and if mainstream media and public opinion think it still is cool to dismiss videogames as puerile escapism for social outcast minorities, they are living in an 80s bullying mindset. The real problem with videogame journalism is professional videogame journalists that actually feel this way, that take their job shallowly and dismiss it themselves as puerile escapism and thus behave as if ethics and morals have no place in their job, and this does a great disservice to it's audience.

Yes, most gamers eat up corporate bullshit with a shovel, but as gaming generations grow older they wise up to this manipulating and deception. As they grow older, goes in hand with companies growing greedier and more cynical, almost to farcically dystopian levels. Journalists should privilege from their position of leaders as sources of information and adhere a moral high ground in a path of public education. Too many gamers, and sadly too many journalists, seem happy to bend over and take it hard in order to keep on the publisher's good side; in order to have access to the down trickles their greed sees fit to sweep on their plates. Publisher's need to be held accountable, gamers need to know they are the ones in power and journalists are the ones to move this gain of conscience forward.

Videogame journalism is still not completely under corporate rule, as sadly mainstream media or "real journalism" is. The internet gives videogame journalist leeway to be brave, to be leaders and have integrity. To aspire to become recognized, respected or equaled to mainstream media is a profoundly naive, anachronistic pipe dream. Truth is, videogame journalism has the tools and potential to ascend to a higher status of integrity and be a much more efficient tool for the people.

So thank you, Jim. For caring and making an effort, and being damn good at it. I am continually surprised by the quality and political sharpness of your pieces. Always hard hitting and unapologetic. Thank god for Jim!

No. It's a free market. This behaviour is controlled by the consumers, not by the publishers and certainly not by the journalists. The only way that the behaviour of the publishers will change is if the consumers tell them to change it (with their wallets). Right now game consumers are sending a clear message: give us good marketing and we will give you money in advance with pre-orders and even more money with uninformed day-one purchases. Hence, money gets spent on trailers instead of servers. At that point the consumer isn't really in much of a position to complain (certainly not in the US at any rate, where shitting on the consumer is not only legal but actually considered moral by many) and neither is Jim.

 

[blackrave]

1.I don't care about EA, ME3 was last game I bought and I don't plan to stick around origin anymore
2.Pirating is slippery topic so we'll avoid it, BUT what about cracking your game? The game you bought for your hard earned money. YOUR game. It is like modding basically, only this "mod" removes shitty attitude from publisher. Comments?

 

[Vigormortis]

The last line made the video for me. So sly, Jim, so sly...

I'm hoping Thrikeen and co turn up, just because I'd love to see them defend this shit against Jim's rather forceful and emotive points. As for me, I gave up on this game when Maxis referred to initial tech issues with the phrase "allowing gamers to play the game".

Fuck you. If I pay you for a game, you do not then get to tell me whether I'm allowed to play it or not.

Although given how many people have had their Origin accounts banned by EA, and been unable to play their games, I can't say I'm surprised.

We're not likely to see them in this thread.

For one, even they would realize how foolish they'd seem trying to defend this whole debacle. For another, some have recently managed to get themselves suspended for....well....behaving badly.

Regardless, some of them have to realize the folly of "defending" EA now-a-days, right? I mean, at this point, it's like Battered Person Syndrome.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I don't play the Sim games, so I had no idea this was happening, but god damn. This shit is ridiculous. Thank you Jim for bringing this up.

Also, whenever I buy EA games from now on, I'll certainly be waiting until after the first 2 weeks.

And of course, as a good upstanding, law abiding citizen, I would [i/]never[/i] even [i/]consider[/i] piracy, just as Jim cannot [i/]possibly[/i] comment on whether a person should pirate these games...

Spoiler: nudge nudge wink wink

[img/]http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//89/15/8915d5687155704c1caf351dff85d530.jpg[/img]

 

[Yoshi Dragon]

Pirates may have mere "kinks" with server emulation.

But what incredibly unreliability have legitimate consumers been left with from the DRM saddled versions? Pretty legendarily bad.

Pirates have mere "kinks" after SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS.

EA will likely fix this whole thing completely by next week.

There's a difference, man. Don't talk like there isn't.

uh no they probably wont. D3 continued to have connectivity and lag issues weeks after launch and according to some (wouldnt know dont play it myself) still does.
the companies could be getting better but arent investing the cash and time to do so. pirates will only getting better at cracking this server thing

 

[vxicepickxv]

I think I'll go with the best option, and just ignore it.

I won't pirate it, I won't buy it.

I'll just play something else. Like Simcity 2000 from gog.com

 

[Nurb]

I never thought the younger gamer generations would be the corporate defenders and the older ones demanding to actually own what you pay for and that gaming isn't a service.

Here's a soon-to-be-reality situation:
You're at home, waching streaming movies and TV or playing your always-online game library and suddenly your cable service goes out for a few hours. Now what? I guess you could read a book.

And remember:
When EA decides to shut the server off in a couple years to make you buy a sequel or they just don't feel it's cost effective, you've lost a game permanently. Oh, they might possibly maybe patch an offline mode if they feel like it? Well imagine the better reception and less hate they would have recieved if they did that in the first place.

And their customer service...

 

[TheRealCJ]

I'd be careful, if I were you Jim. Mentioning "pirating games" on this site is a good way to get permabannned.

 

[Entitled]

See that's the thing about online DRM: with all its colossal failures, EA still has something to be happy about - the nullifying of piracy within the first few weeks.

And are you sure that EA should be happy about that?

This line of thinking only works if you accept the publishers' assumption, that stopping piracy leads to extra sales by forcing pirates to pay.

Which appears to make sense on the short term: among all those "ideological pirates", and the "poor Ukranian college student" pirates, and the "trying before buying" pirates, there must be at least SOME freeloaders who are just taking the path of least resistance, and trying to spare some money by tring to avoid payment as long as it's easy.

But on the long term?

Diablo 3 and Sim City 2013 were bought (and played) by a lot of people. But how many will buy Diablo 4 or Sim City 2015?

I'm not even talking about fan rage, but simple hype math. Let's say that 90% of gamers are pirates, and 10% can be turned):

Game A has 1 million buyers and 10 million extra pirate players.
Game B has 2 million buyers and it has piracy eliminated.

On the long term, should the publisher of Game B really feel happy about that? Game A will get more word of mouth, more news reports on sites (that don't care which players their ad revenue is coming from), more references in mainstream media, more forum avatars, more threads, and a more lively fan community.

Two years later, Game A/2 will easily reach 2 million sales (through 20 million players).
But how much will Game B/2 grow, after it so successfully locked out most of it's potential supporters and guaranteed it's own isolation from pop-culture?

The only way to bet on that strategy would be, if you would have certain data that in the actual numbers to fill in for these placeholders, the benefits of stopping piracy actually outweight the benefits of having piracy.

Before they can do that, simply assuming that "piracy is ultimately harmful, because it has some negative effects" just doesn't add up.

 

[mfeff]

In exchange Sony lets Microsoft have Blu-Ray.

This caught my eye. You do know Sony is only part of the BD consortium and doesn't really have the authority to stop Microsoft from using BD, right? In fact, I can't remember the name, but BD technology uses an existing Microsoft patent. They get a small amount of money for every BD drive manufactured, including the Playstation 3. This is not even uncommon because, outside of video games, they're really not rivals at all. Even in gaming it remains debatable, as they seem to not really compete except in the sense of seeing who can come up with the dumbest new ideas for otherwise adequate systems.

Hmm that seems odd. Not saying I am not nodding, just odd that if MS had BD as a proprietary technology why on earth did they attempt to leverage the HD-DVD? So lemme dig into this and figure out where I made a boo boo.

First Meeting of Blu-ray DiscTM Patent Holders Held
Progress Made, Input Welcomed in Creation of Joint Patent License
(Denver, Colorado USA ? 20 July 2006) ? MPEG LA announced today that the first meeting of essential
Blu-ray DiscTM patent owners, consisting of 17 companies, was held in Los Angeles on July 6-7 for the
purpose of creating a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatory access to essential
patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses. Participating companies included:
CyberLink Corporation
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi Ltd.
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic)
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
TDK Corporation
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Warner Home Video Inc.

Going off this list I don't see Microsoft listed... this supports your assertion of "letting this or that", which was a good call. It does indicate that going Blu-Ray means an additional per unit cost, which I suspect is why there has been so much hemming around the topic by Microsoft.

From http://news.cnet.com/does-the-xbox-720-need-blu-ray-to-succeed/

Great. But what about the Blu-ray issue?
There's no way Microsoft will install a Blu-ray drive into the Xbox 720, and to be quite honest, I don't think there's any reason for it to do so. The reasons are simple. First, Microsoft doesn't want to pay a competitor--Sony, the key backer behind the Blu-ray Disc Association--to use its format. Second, and perhaps most important, Microsoft realizes that Blu-ray isn't an ideal format, given the fact Blu-ray's chance of success is very much in doubt.

That indicates to me that Sony is a major player to the BD equation... but I think we can do better.

From http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/games/1296739/xbox-720-release-date-specs-price-rumours

After supporting the losing HD-DVD camp in the HD disc format war, it was surprising how little damage it did to the Xbox 360 over its lifespan.... Recent information would seem to confirm this, with unnamed sources speaking to specialist site The Next Xbox, stating that the next-generation Xbox 360 will include a Blu-ray drive.

From http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/52561-latest-xbox-720-rumours-suggest-absence-blu-ray-drive/

Previous spec leaks concerning the Xbox 720, from bigger name sources than this one, have included a Blu-ray drive in the mix of components. GamesRadar Managing Editor Tom Magrino said of the most recent rumour; "I avoid absolutes as a rule, that said, there is a zero percent chance that the next Xbox will ship without a Blu-ray player," Magrino asserted

"Setting aside the wealth of leaks from reliable sources, Microsoft's strategy for years has been to turn the Xbox into the de facto media hub for every family's living room, not just a game console." He concluded that "It can?t, with a straight face, continue to make that claim without a Blu-ray player, seeing as that is the future of physical media".

So yeah, I am speculating, but not without some source information from whence to speculate. Didn't take into account that BD as a format/medium was a consortium with Sony as a player at the table, not the dealer at the head of the table.

That said I have probably supported your assertion, which isn't a bad thing at all.

My conclusion (updated) is going to be more along the lines of pitching a unit which bundles in some form of service or lease agreement alongside or with the unit itself, out of the card board. Basically it comes down to who you want your service provider to be as a matter of brokerage. Considering how "off the shelf" these units are looking it seems a bit of a head scratch-er as where these companies think the profit is hidden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_consolidation

Maybe something along the lines of a Sony premium service contract which includes some games/movies/cloud/digital download... and Microsoft bundling in Hulu and Netflix with a premium service contract as well as g/m/c/dd.

Maybe go so far as to suggest the units themselves will be feature crippled without service contracts.

As far as devices? Right there with you on that one. Monkey see monkey do I suppose. The goggles for PC is an interesting concept, then again I have been using TrackIR for some time, and with the right game/simulator it is very slick. It wouldn't surprise me to see the goggles attempt to do something similar to this with the track IR feature set built in.

Heck I like to golf, but the motion controls for the golf games... suck. Interface devices (especially with consoles) have been a sort of staple of the industry though. I guess today it is how counter-intuitive some of the games are that utilize these controls have become and/or how poorly they handle out of the box.

Don't really have any skin in this game or debate, or whatever it is. Own a PS3 due to the reasonable BD player and I got a good deal when the local big box couldn't shift em. Occasionally it plays a game, mostly it is a glorified VCR and netflix for the kids. Own Xbox(s) just to play Panzer Dragoon and Lost Odyssey... the first Xbox is hacked to hell and back... both systems, again I got for a song.

The newer consoles just don't do it for me. H2O radiator cooled, SLi'd, OC'd PC ftw I suppose. Really the fall of the console can't come soon enough... the "un-crippling" of PC games (Skyrim comes to mind, New Tomb raider I heard has issues, wouldn't surprise me at some point during SimCity developement that Console wasn't mentioned) has become... well tedious... it's like an unwelcome pet which gets a lot of attention, for all the wrong reasons.

 

[captain_dalan]

if the mainstream gaming industry is doomed to fall, then let it, what comes next is bound to be better anyway, if at least for a decade or so until they get cocky again