Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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The stuff from wizardchan wasn't harrassment, that was them, on their own page, talking to their own circle of like minded. It wasn't directed at her, it wasn't brought to her, she apparently searched it (despite it being a chan page that 404's after a while) then cried foul. Then ???? then suddenly she gets phonecalls.
The worst part is you guys assume these wizardchan types are responsible. Have you been to their site? 80 percent of them are so introverted it hurts to read. Not the sort that do this, that even have the personality requirements to do this sort of thing. IN fact they would actively avoid the attention this has garnered as they'd like to be left alone.
But hey, because it's a man only site and has chan at the end.. lets assume they're the 12 year olds from /b/ trying to ruin some womans life for the lols, I mean it's not like anyone would research them when it's so easy to consider it a given.
So you take them out of the picture and what do you get? Some dev crying foul over nothing. And what if some overzealous channer sees this and so comes to the defense of them in some retarded way?
That's the one thing your "research" didn't take into account. I went to the chan and read it. It's not /b/, not even close. In fact none of them even knows whos responsible for this and a large protion are wishing it would go away because they don't want the attention.
The worst part is you guys assume these wizardchan types are responsible. Have you been to their site? 80 percent of them are so introverted it hurts to read. Not the sort that do this, that even have the personality requirements to do this sort of thing. IN fact they would actively avoid the attention this has garnered as they'd like to be left alone.
But hey, because it's a man only site and has chan at the end.. lets assume they're the 12 year olds from /b/ trying to ruin some womans life for the lols, I mean it's not like anyone would research them when it's so easy to consider it a given.
So you take them out of the picture and what do you get? Some dev crying foul over nothing. And what if some overzealous channer sees this and so comes to the defense of them in some retarded way?
That's the one thing your "research" didn't take into account. I went to the chan and read it. It's not /b/, not even close. In fact none of them even knows whos responsible for this and a large protion are wishing it would go away because they don't want the attention.
Goddamnit videogames community why are we not past this bullshit yet? Do we have to purge 4chan or something to make any sort of headway against wankery?
4chan was attacked a few days ago, dunno if it's back up yet..
otherwise, stop assuming because they're a chan that they're anything like 4chan. Wizard means over 30 male virgin. They don't go to that site to celebrate their "wizard" status.. they go to mourn it. They honestly seem like they want to be left alone.
So I put it to you gamer community.
What's their motivation? They gain unwanted attention from this, and on the other hand; Zoe gains publicity for her game.
They're the perfect scapegoats and most of you fell for it. Rather then coming to the defense of your ilk, you're all so willing to believe we are the bad guys because we've been told over and over again that we're the bad guys in pop culture. It's so easy to believe social givens ratehr then search for the truth. No wonder people still watch fox news.
otherwise, stop assuming because they're a chan that they're anything like 4chan. Wizard means over 30 male virgin. They don't go to that site to celebrate their "wizard" status.. they go to mourn it. They honestly seem like they want to be left alone.
So I put it to you gamer community.
What's their motivation? They gain unwanted attention from this, and on the other hand; Zoe gains publicity for her game.
They're the perfect scapegoats and most of you fell for it. Rather then coming to the defense of your ilk, you're all so willing to believe we are the bad guys because we've been told over and over again that we're the bad guys in pop culture. It's so easy to believe social givens ratehr then search for the truth. No wonder people still watch fox news.
A good video Jim.
To those who don't want to hear or read about harrassment - don't. But don't tell others to stop talking about it. You don't want to be a part of this conversation, the door is right there and the sign on it reads "Don't click on this". No one is making you read this, no one is making you listen to this.
But it's not about that is it? Some people don't want to be reminded that this goes on. Even the merest hint that this awfulness exists makes some people feel uncomfortable and they would rather wish that they didn't have to feel uncomfortable. It's like looking at a bad news story and complaining "Ugh - why do we have to have this on the news?"
Switch it off or pay it no attention if that's what they want. They can go and pretend that the world is just and fair (it isn't). But don't tell everyone else to not talk about it or discuss it or try to find ways to combat it.
And to those who say "Nothing can be done" - well, you can think that. The rest of us are going to try to do something about it. Again, if it seems like a waste of time to you, by all means, sit this fight out, as is your right. But some of us want to talk about it and fight the issues as is our right.
To those who don't want to hear or read about harrassment - don't. But don't tell others to stop talking about it. You don't want to be a part of this conversation, the door is right there and the sign on it reads "Don't click on this". No one is making you read this, no one is making you listen to this.
But it's not about that is it? Some people don't want to be reminded that this goes on. Even the merest hint that this awfulness exists makes some people feel uncomfortable and they would rather wish that they didn't have to feel uncomfortable. It's like looking at a bad news story and complaining "Ugh - why do we have to have this on the news?"
Switch it off or pay it no attention if that's what they want. They can go and pretend that the world is just and fair (it isn't). But don't tell everyone else to not talk about it or discuss it or try to find ways to combat it.
And to those who say "Nothing can be done" - well, you can think that. The rest of us are going to try to do something about it. Again, if it seems like a waste of time to you, by all means, sit this fight out, as is your right. But some of us want to talk about it and fight the issues as is our right.
Dear Jim,
I'm sorry but this is a really poor example of female harassment by the gamers community that you have chosen to focus on. As a female gamer this is obviously a topic that?s a matter of not only interest but something that I have been on the receiving end of and this example of Zoe as I said is not a very relevant one to base your points upon.
As far as I have researched and read on this whole case it basically comes down to a matter of "he said she said" in which there is no real evidence for whether it was real harassment or if it was faked for publicity. Also the fact that this harassment came from sites like wizardchan gives less credibility to any of it because that is not a good representation of how the 'gaming community' acts and it's kind of impossible/pointless to expect anyone to be able to stand up to chans. Also every gamer I know (male and female) knows to IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE the chans. Everyone knows that if you read/post on a chan (especially about something like depression) they are going to "an hero" you. So it's not like those sites JUST harass her they just harass everybody because that is pretty much where 'trolling' was invented.
I know this story is something quite visible so Jim has jumped on the proverbial band wagon but as a female gamer this isn't a very realistic example of harassment by the gaming community based on gender.
I myself have often been the target of verbal abuse for my gender in many of the multi-player online games I play such as CSS, Dota and more recently LoL. IF I LET IT this 'harassment' could totally ruin a day of gaming for me or make me depressed but why listen to these few individuals that don't know me and obviously get their jollies by needing to make someone else upset? Most of the time these people are a small select group of 12 year old mentalities who are just getting enjoyment by getting a rise out of me because they are so bored or sad in themselves and so they have to put me down. The majority of gamers are quite courteous to me and mostly don't care about my gender one way or the other so long as I am decent at what ever game I?m playing.
Jim's point that other gamers should stick up against this kind of idiocy is a nice thought but to be honest I'm no princess peach needing Mario to come save the day for me. I can stick up for myself, so can other females and we do. The best thing (in my opinion) that we can do is ignore them, not let them get a rise out of us and eventually they will get bored and get over their immaturity. I don't expect a guy to stick up for me nor do I specifically need or want that, I just want to be treated with respect as I afford other gamers. In fact in the past when my guy friends have tried to stick up for me the 'attackers' just turn on the guys with comments like "oh you just want in her pants" or "you poor virgin sticking up for your girlfriend" etc. So this 'sticking up' for the "poor girl being harassed" never really seems to help and sometimes just escalates it. I've had insults from "get back in the kitchen" to "you should go die and leave gaming to the boys" but you know what? I let it go, I don't let it ruin my life or my enjoyment of games because for every 1 gamer like that there are so many more that are friendly and respectful.
Merry Christmas,
Nen
I'm sorry but this is a really poor example of female harassment by the gamers community that you have chosen to focus on. As a female gamer this is obviously a topic that?s a matter of not only interest but something that I have been on the receiving end of and this example of Zoe as I said is not a very relevant one to base your points upon.
As far as I have researched and read on this whole case it basically comes down to a matter of "he said she said" in which there is no real evidence for whether it was real harassment or if it was faked for publicity. Also the fact that this harassment came from sites like wizardchan gives less credibility to any of it because that is not a good representation of how the 'gaming community' acts and it's kind of impossible/pointless to expect anyone to be able to stand up to chans. Also every gamer I know (male and female) knows to IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE the chans. Everyone knows that if you read/post on a chan (especially about something like depression) they are going to "an hero" you. So it's not like those sites JUST harass her they just harass everybody because that is pretty much where 'trolling' was invented.
I know this story is something quite visible so Jim has jumped on the proverbial band wagon but as a female gamer this isn't a very realistic example of harassment by the gaming community based on gender.
I myself have often been the target of verbal abuse for my gender in many of the multi-player online games I play such as CSS, Dota and more recently LoL. IF I LET IT this 'harassment' could totally ruin a day of gaming for me or make me depressed but why listen to these few individuals that don't know me and obviously get their jollies by needing to make someone else upset? Most of the time these people are a small select group of 12 year old mentalities who are just getting enjoyment by getting a rise out of me because they are so bored or sad in themselves and so they have to put me down. The majority of gamers are quite courteous to me and mostly don't care about my gender one way or the other so long as I am decent at what ever game I?m playing.
Jim's point that other gamers should stick up against this kind of idiocy is a nice thought but to be honest I'm no princess peach needing Mario to come save the day for me. I can stick up for myself, so can other females and we do. The best thing (in my opinion) that we can do is ignore them, not let them get a rise out of us and eventually they will get bored and get over their immaturity. I don't expect a guy to stick up for me nor do I specifically need or want that, I just want to be treated with respect as I afford other gamers. In fact in the past when my guy friends have tried to stick up for me the 'attackers' just turn on the guys with comments like "oh you just want in her pants" or "you poor virgin sticking up for your girlfriend" etc. So this 'sticking up' for the "poor girl being harassed" never really seems to help and sometimes just escalates it. I've had insults from "get back in the kitchen" to "you should go die and leave gaming to the boys" but you know what? I let it go, I don't let it ruin my life or my enjoyment of games because for every 1 gamer like that there are so many more that are friendly and respectful.
Merry Christmas,
Nen
Church185 said:
Stop.Church185 said:
Anything past this point in a post is going to be bad.
dammit
You did it. You went with the comma and an implied "but"
You can't brush aside the harassment, strike at an abstract point, and not expect to come off as in the wrong. It's the hidden "I'm not sexist, but" that will sink you every time.
Also, yes. Finding out about this kind of behavior and not doing anything about it is contributing to the problem. The fact that people see it and don't say anything is contributing to the problem. Having good intentions and not acting on them is less effective than farting in the wind at solving the problem.
As an addendum. People saying this doesn't exist or isn't as bad as people are making it out to be are lying to themselves.
Heh, I like you.danon said:
The idea that it takes a brave individual to stand up and illicit change for any reason, let alone the moral high ground seems facile thinking. I agree about the idea of personal accountability and responsibility, but to change things takes more than that, especially when it's meant to be change for the better. That women are harassed is not a new thing to video games, but racism has been a larger issue for a longer time, this is just the same problems lumped on, dare I say, a more sympathetic demographic. Has racism in the video game community improved? That's a rhetorical question, as a black man I know better, personally. Countering this will take a hell of a lot more than stepping in, and in all honesty "white knight" types have diminished the cause of equality more than they've helped, foremost by weakening credibility to the contrary of the harassing party.
What we'd really need is organization, another notoriously weaker aspect of the gaming community. Defending everyone with a vagina against everyone with a penis because vagina vs penis is in all honesty just as bad. In fact I'd argue that blanket assertions of culpability are just as bad, because it not only further widens the divide on either side of this issue, regardless of gender, but it sets and uncomfortable and impractical precedent; if you're not absolutely with us you are certainly against us.
Hell, in the most base sense I'd point out that if you want better of others you must lead by example or risk appearing a hypocrite. Generalizing those who do not step in as being as bad or as responsible for the harassment as those that harass others isn't exactly a notch above generalizing people because of say... gender. I'm not saying "don't do anything about it", I'm just against this ham-handed, frankly ugly approach to the problem. If you won't rise above it, why should they?
I also check the site.You are absolutely right.The guys there even have suicide-help hotline number listed on the forum(suicide > gaming problems for me).Deadcyde said:
Too bad no one will read your post or even check wizardchan for facts.Everyone will just post their ramblings.
You're assuming that gamers don't do anything. If that we're true we wouldn't have this "BAD CHAN!" crusade and everyone whiteknighting (defending wizardchan = instaban on neogaf, jim making a video, blog rage) without actually checking the validity of the accusations. This entire episode is feeding on attention, so if no one cared there would have been no reaction.
So in conclusion this is realy everyone clip clopping around on their high horse. Who cares to check the facts?
So in conclusion this is realy everyone clip clopping around on their high horse. Who cares to check the facts?
Sorry, this is more of a curiosity but how could you receive verbal abuse for your gender on two of those games since Dota and LoL don't have voice options? I doubt very much you make a habit of stating your gender through chat so just wondering how it's possible?nenja said:
Though honestly I'm not sure how one can possible be harassed in LoL by ANY real means given the SO LOVED tab and click ignore feature... man I love that bloody option lol
PS: Wait, does Dota 2 have voice chat? Just realised that could be what you mean by Dota and I logged on but never played Dota 2
If people from Wizardchan did ANY of that, its not okay. It just changes from punishment to getting these people help which to be honest some of them probably need.odinzeus said:
Still doesn't make the horrid behavior acceptable. Though I'm still in a position where comes down to a he said, she said kind of deal.
EDIT: By "any of that" I mean the accusations of death threats over the phone, and the harassment.
Sorry yes I should have edited the verbal out of that as the verbal was mostly just on CSS and a little on dota 2 but certainly written abuse on all 3 games and they are only a few examples. Dota 2 does have voice chat but I used to get written abuse on original dota and yes I LOVE the mute option on the games but I don't automatically mute everyone and so the hurtful comments come before I do mute them though there are days when I will just automatically mute everyone. I don't hide the fact that I'm a girl and my gamer name since I was 14 has been 'missfreaky'/'missnen' so maybe its my fault for advertising that I'm a girl? But I think not.Ryan Minns said:
I have clue WTF Jim was trying to get at in this video. It seemed to be aimed at nobody in particular, but then a lot of his videos are like that I guess. Ranting at something that some crazy person/people said/did online, and venting his steam at an audience who is 90% nothing like who is supposedly venting at. But apparently disassociating ourselves from crazies is...contributing to the problem somehow? So are we supposed to share the blame? WTF? I don't even know any more.
What a confused mess of a JimQuisition episode.
Anyone who gets harrassed (female or not) needs to learn to deal with it, because absolutely nothing can be done about random online anon's flinging mean words at you. If they're getting harrasssed locally, then call the police and take it from there. Nothing more can be done, accept that fact.
Or if you're Jim, make a video about it.
What a confused mess of a JimQuisition episode.
Purging 4chan will simply result in five more 4chan-like sites popping up. What I mean is that this is the power of the internet, it has it's positives and negatives. A large part of gamer culture simply happens to exist on the internet, and so here we are.leviadragon99 said:
Anyone who gets harrassed (female or not) needs to learn to deal with it, because absolutely nothing can be done about random online anon's flinging mean words at you. If they're getting harrasssed locally, then call the police and take it from there. Nothing more can be done, accept that fact.
Or if you're Jim, make a video about it.
Ah the Miss thing would explain how they'd know. That was what I meant since it was strange to me they'd abuse you for a gender a less specific name wouldn't show. Nothing wrong with your name I just assumed it was more genderless if that makes sense?nenja said:
Counter-trolling never works. I tried it once, and the threat turned into a shitpit of racial slurs and astoundingly poor grammar.Lightknight said:
Trolls are like pot holes; annoying, ugly, but ultimately harmless and easy to avoid.
EDIT: I added some more quote to make thing less ambiguous.
I'm just gonna leave this quote from Winston Rowntree here, because it's relevant to the subject (replace sexism with harassment):
"Very little makes me more pissed off than gender prejudice, but what do I ever do about it? Pretty much I just assume I?m not part of the problem, so enjoy your hive of scum and villainy, everyone, I live on a higher plane. And here you have by far the worst response to sexism: nothing. The response of choice of we who love avoiding confrontation (and comment section shitstorms). And so transgendered people continue to be disproportionately persecuted because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and women continue to get chased off Twitter because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and rape victims continue to not be taken seriously because not enough people are goddamn ensuring a supportive environment. The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get hung out to dry by the silence of others. Not enough of us are making it clear that this is the world of the majority and not the vast minority fringe group of idiots, and so the one shithorn talking in the theater ruins the movie for the other 76 people who are afraid to speak up. Peer pressure is what drives humanity. Why aren't there any women/men in certain industries? Because the absence of women/men there keeps the others away. But we can harness peer pressure for good, too, and remind sexists that they are alone in the room -- especially online, because a tidy neighborhood discourages crime, and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."
I'm just gonna leave this quote from Winston Rowntree here, because it's relevant to the subject (replace sexism with harassment):
"Very little makes me more pissed off than gender prejudice, but what do I ever do about it? Pretty much I just assume I?m not part of the problem, so enjoy your hive of scum and villainy, everyone, I live on a higher plane. And here you have by far the worst response to sexism: nothing. The response of choice of we who love avoiding confrontation (and comment section shitstorms). And so transgendered people continue to be disproportionately persecuted because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and women continue to get chased off Twitter because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and rape victims continue to not be taken seriously because not enough people are goddamn ensuring a supportive environment. The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get hung out to dry by the silence of others. Not enough of us are making it clear that this is the world of the majority and not the vast minority fringe group of idiots, and so the one shithorn talking in the theater ruins the movie for the other 76 people who are afraid to speak up. Peer pressure is what drives humanity. Why aren't there any women/men in certain industries? Because the absence of women/men there keeps the others away. But we can harness peer pressure for good, too, and remind sexists that they are alone in the room -- especially online, because a tidy neighborhood discourages crime, and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."