Jimquisition: Why So Serious?

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Machine Man 1992

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Pyrokinesis said:
I love Metal Gear Rising: revengeance, but obviously its not a word, things can only be epicly sliced in cutscenes, and Reiden still has dildos for high-heels. Still lovin every minute of that game regardless.
Revengence is totally a word. A really old, esoteric word that doesn't get used in modern english, but a word nonetheless.

I actually kind of liked the massager heels, because they opened up a whole world of possibilities for high heels in games. You think it's impractical to strut around a battlefield in stilettos? HA, they're actually claws that let me grab things with my feet and smack you in the face with it!
 

MB202

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For me, it depends on what the "jab" is, as well as how much I felt it was called for. I can have a sense of humor about things, but it seems today that if you make fun of something, that automatically means you hate it... I guess the words "affectionate parody" are lost on a lot of people.
 

Racecarlock

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Zachary Amaranth said:
This doesn't apply to games I like, right?

Racecarlock said:
Saints Row IV and Far Cry 3 blood dragon seem to be the only games last year that actually wanted to have fun.
If "have fun" is a way of saying "hollow clown face," yeah.
Hey, I was having fun. You can take that for what it's worth. I don't need you to like it for me to like it.
 

Jackhorse

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I liked this one a lot more than the previous episode, the previous episode felt unfinished.

Seriously though, I can't think of a single game I adore which I can't criticise or rib. TF2, which I've spent well over a thousand hours on has arbitrary critical hits which you can't do much against. Monster Hunter 3, which back in the day I probably spent just as long on was a grindfest, it took so long to complete a set of armour you would probably have outgrown the set and set your eyes on something new by the time you could craft your boots.

Same with having a laugh, Team Fortress 2 is a hilarious game, you can spend ages watching player interactions or you can get annoyed that three engineers can't figure out how to build a teleporter between them.
 

Redd the Sock

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I've had to explain to people that Yahtzee doesn't hate the games he reviews as much as he comes off. He wouldn't do the job if he did. Hell, even the MST3K guys like a lot of the movies they riffed.

I think a lot of it is a reflex reaction to the more forum based commentary we get. People online are rarely as funny as they think they are, and almost never as someone paid to do the job. Others just won't shut up about the flaw they see in something and if they aren't spamming a board about it, they have to have thier 2 cents in any conversation to the opposite viewpoint. Worst of all, is that often it isn't te game being laughed at, but the joke is in an insult to those that like it. ie: Moviebob has pulled out a line a few times in the past lamenting those liking a certain movie also have voting rights. Delivered right, it's kind of funny, but no matter how it's delivered, it comes off as mean spirited and condescending.

The oversensitivity we get back doesn't help, but I think those 3 sum it up. Even when something legit comes along, we expect at best a tired annoyance, and at worst, someone that lives to make us the butt of the joke to feed their own superiority complex. You just end up waiting for the next punchlines that say that if the thing you love is flawed, you are a loser, or less than human by proxy.
 

Something Amyss

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Racecarlock said:
Hey, I was having fun. You can take that for what it's worth. I don't need you to like it for me to like it.
You said they were the only games that wanted to have fun. That's not really the same as you enjoying them.
 

Strain42

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Thank you, Jim. Sincerely. Thank you, and thank God for you. I get a lot of this from my fellow Persona fans because I often make fun of Persona 4 for putting too much emphasis on forced comedy scenes and less about the supernatural murder mystery it's supposed to be about, but I love Persona 4. I do, I love it. I've beaten it several times, it's pretty much the only reason I own a Vita, and I've spent about 4 years now drawing webcomics based on it and its various spin-offs and sequels.

And yet when I make a joke about the murder mystery being a B story or Naoto being a walking exposition machine I get a bunch of "If you hate Persona 4 so much then don't play it. Not our fault you can't enjoy this perfect game!" Honestly, it's a big part of the reason why I had to stop hanging out with fellow Persona fans on the internet. Because you can't joke about that game anymore without getting serious hate and being called a troll.

And that hurts my feelings.
 

Callate

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Can I take a stab at this one? In case anyone actually reads comment #99?

On a very surface level, I agree- and that is on the level of, "Wouldn't it be great if we could joke about the things that were dear for us, acknowledge the little flaws that we overlook in our enjoyment and even the little smudges that somehow manage to give those things character and endear them to us all the more for their imperfection?" Yes! That would be great.

...And here's why that's not going to happen.

1. As anyone who has communicated electronically for more than a few months has probably realized, things like humor, sarcasm, irony, satire, and even nuance are often lost in the shuffle. This is the medium that invented emoticons so that people could either let on that they were kidding or get away with saying god-awful things because somehow the smiley face at the end was supposed to make them all better. Combine this with the more recent trend of "TL:DR", if you can't get your point across in thirty seconds or 140 characters, it's frequently not going to get absorbed at all... Unless it comes quick-cut with amusing images, has a rockin' soundtrack, or the reader looks smoking hot in tight t-shrirt.

(None of those comments is intended as a shot at anyone associated with the Escapist. No, really. Assume this was written in whatever fucking font it takes to assure you that I mean that.)

2. Welcome to the age of the meme. Just as it's started sinking in that in fact not all press is good press, we now have a "viral" media which many a PR spin doctor has tried to corral and failed. It's great to joke about a bit of wonky writing, some sub-standard character models, an art style that isn't everyone's cup of tea, or some mangled translation in an otherwise worthwhile game- up to the point where that silly thing becomes all that a significant portion of the potential audience knows about that game. And while the joke-teller may know that it's a petty minor negative thing, the rest of the audience may only know that it's a negative thing; and without context, it might be the tip of a huge, awful iceberg. The mocking of black humor at having wasted one's time and money on a bad media experience can be very hard to tell from affectionate mocking of a good media experience.

3. We now live with AAA-games, indie games, and very little in between. I think much of the hardcore fan-base of a AAA franchise knows, consciously or subconsciously, that their loyalty isn't enough to keep their beloved title cycling; the publisher expects to see growth to justify its enormous and dangerous investment, and that means it has to reach at least some people with each installment that it didn't reach before. Ideally, that would just mean that new people would see an ad that they wouldn't otherwise see (say, in a movie theater or a non-trade magazine), or some evangelist who loves the series would encourage them to give it a try. But it's just as likely that a potential audience member only hears about the alleged misogyny of GTA, or the long monologues of Metal Gear Solid, or... fill in your own list. They might not play it just because a joke penetrated where an ad campaign did not. They might even think less of someone who does play that game because of what they've heard, a situation with which all too many gamers are regrettably familiar.

While an indie game's creators might be slightly more likely to welcome a joke at their expense, it's only because it might be all that stands between them and the bottom of the bottom of Steam's mid-week sale list. They'd prefer to be lauded and the subject of tribute pages and affectionate discussion, but it's better to be looked at in morbid curiosity than not looked at at all. Still, a joke is as likely to write off an indie game as one of many such titles that failed to meet a minimum standard of professionalism than to attract the attention of buyers.

I'm not going to pretend that all, or even any, of this is behind every outraged fan response to a "joking" reference to a game; Sturgeon's Law remains in effect, and there are plenty of people simply willing to go off half-cocked if something they like is slighted. But I do think there's something to it at least to the point that people annoyed at "jokes" shouldn't be written off out of hand. There aren't a lot of jokes that someone defusing a land mine wants to hear.
 

blackrave

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Racecarlock said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
This doesn't apply to games I like, right?

Racecarlock said:
Saints Row IV and Far Cry 3 blood dragon seem to be the only games last year that actually wanted to have fun.
If "have fun" is a way of saying "hollow clown face," yeah.
Hey, I was having fun. You can take that for what it's worth. I don't need you to like it for me to like it.
Sorry, but I have to agree with Zachary here.
That was blunt "it is so silly, lough at it!!!" humor

Lately I think that Deus Ex: HR was best example of game serious, but with occasional laugh
Omega Ranch+animal porn
That chain of emails was hilarious
Especially when I found who was doing that :D
 

GamemasterAnthony

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This episode made me smile...and not in the creepy Joker way.

People really should take things LESS seriously. I think a lot of problems we have would go away...and not just in the video game sense. Anyone remember the crap that happened when South Park made fun of Scientology and Issac Hayes threw a hissy fit and quit over it? Same basic idea. I mean, heck...George Carlin was raised Catholic, and yet he still pointed out that God had this list of ten things you could not do, otherwise He'd send you to this place of fire and pain to urn for all eternity...BUT HE LOVES YOU!

Truthfully, games of ANY type, not just video games, aren't supposed to be taken too seriously. Role playing gamers especially hate "rules lawyers" who follow all rules to an absolute T...and I have YET to see anyone who has not played a board game without any sort of "house rules". Also...yours truly is a guy who created a game which combined MtG, Pokémon TCG, Duel Masters, and Yu-Gi-Oh. (Don't ask.)

So yeah...like the meme goes, why so serious?
 

Infernal Lawyer

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Vigormortis said:
You know, I have to say that I've found one of the best ways to disarm someone who's trying to insult or irritate you is to, as Jim said, laugh at yourself.

Someone takes a jab at you about your birth being a mistake and that you were intended for the tissue instead? Come back with, "Yeah, I know. My father reminded me of that regularly. He even bitched that the alternative to my birth would have been just as bad since he was out of Puff's Plus."

Nothing's more annoying to a troll than laughing off their insults.
HA! Or better yet, beat them to the punch. I've had more than a few DOTA games where I would realize I was talking a little too much, and then instantly remarked "And yes guys, I DO need to comment on everything, before you ask" before anyone could give me crap about it. Especially amusing when they try to get snarky about it anyway.

OT: Funny you should talk about that Forza thing, since I was just defending TF2 from someone who was saying it's a shit game because "the story is bad". Though I guess the article wasn't trying to claim that the entire game was terrible because of a few shitty models in the background, so it's nice to pretend know that I'm not some crazy fanboy getting mad over nothing... right?

Anyway, this is just another symptom of idiots who refuse to admit that their favorite past-time is anything but perfect, alongside "Hate/Whine out of Ten Syndrome", or need to get mad over someone pointing out the slightest (but undeniable) flaws. Boo hoo, get over it people.

Captcha: Which one does not belong

What, I don't even... You only gave me the option to pick "emo kid", what is this?
 

Nixou

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There are few things one cannot joke about

As the great, late Pierre Desproges [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Desproges] said: you can joke about everything, but not with everyone, and to illustrate it, he added, and I quote:
il vaut mieux rire d?Auschwitz avec un juif que de jouer au scrabble avec Klaus Barbie
Translation: It's better to laugh about Auschwitz with a Jew than to play scrabble with Klaus Barbie [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Barbie].

***

Its still a great experience, with a lot of really serious moments, but it can have levity, and it can be made fun

And of course, the biggest and best joke was the way they utterly destroyed in the third episode the heileinesque quasi-fascistic fantasy about the proud military übermensch who's always right, especially when these pesky elected officials tell her that fevered dreams and visions do not constitute sufficient evidence of the coming back of an army of Mecha Cthulhus.
Unfortunately, so many among the audience took said heileinesque quasi-fascistic fantasy so seriously that I daresay that Mass Effect qualifies as another unfortunate case of involuntary Douche Porn [http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/36/83/4626eedb25722cbc50cf101005b8f846.jpg].

***

I've had to explain to people that Yahtzee doesn't hate the games he reviews as much as he comes off

If anything, I think that Yahtzee is good at maintaining a subtle but noticeable difference of tone and style between reviews of games he enjoyed playing and reviews of games he genuinely despise. Or maybe I find it easy to differentiate because I spent too much time watching subbed british comedy as a kid.
 

Eamar

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Well said Jim. It saddens me that people seem to be forgetting how to do this. Hell, one of my favourite things about getting really into something is being able to joke about it, preferably with other people who also love it. Makes me feel even more fond of whatever it is.

Nothing like watching LOTR for the billionth time with my family while we all make jokes and provide a running commentary XD And anyone who's seen me post pretty much anything before will know that anything Tolkien-related is serious fucking business as far as I'm concerned :p
 

grumpymooselion

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It's a bit ridiculous how hard lined various aspects of the gaming community can be, that "either it's 100% serious or it's malicious trolling!" mindset can be found in all walks of the community. Not just the consumers and fans, not just the media coverage of games, and not even just the outside perspective either. I've even seen individual entities out of publishers and developers do this. A casual walk through the Bioware social network suggests, a lot of the time, that some of these people have no sense of humor at all. Still, I can't say this without recognizing that sometimes I get in that mood myself, I'm just as guilty as any other portion of the gaming community of what Jim covered in this video.
 

IamLEAM1983

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The thing is, I think it's human nature.

In real life, we have tons of cues to pick out jokes from sincere statements. Smiles, knowing glances, someone's tone of voice and general posturing - there's generally always enough data for us to go "Okay, yeah, he's pulling jabs at the thing I love and is doing it for the sake of levity. I'm okay with that."

Online, all we have is text. Jim's videos and, Hell, any videos you can imagine, pack the audio-visual element on top of text. That helps to a degree, but I think it explains why there's always so much bile in the Comments section of YouTube and, of course, anywhere where we gamers might congregate to discuss our hobby's finer points.

Person A: *generally attempts to write down a witty assessment of some fact, a fandom in-joke or the parody of abject hatred*
Person B: *reads Person A's statement on the first degree, completely missing the cultural metadata behind it all. Proceeds to flip tables and pull Rage comic faces*

Tackle the defensiveness a lot of gamers happen to feel on top of that, and you're left with a pretty volatile environment.
 

Tuznecote

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Having a Sense of humour is the only way to be a Sonic the hedgehog fan. To many of them are dreadful and totally off there heads but worst.... serious.
 

Cabisco

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Yes! YES!

Thank god for you Jim, this is so true and the gaming communities habit to fully commit to loving to the point of radicalism or hating to the point of insanity has for the most part driven me away from the more in depth aspects of gaming culture (like these forums for the most part). We didn't used to be this full of hate and bile, what the hell happened :/
 

IrisNetwork

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Metal Gear even makes fun of itself sometimes. Even Saints Row 4 made fun of it. It was a good laugh.
 

JenSeven

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It's also good to remember that the majority of the internet seems to be bipolar. Either they are:
"Awwww Kitten!!!!" or overflowing with impotent rage and loathing for everything and everyone but themselves.

Kind of a strange world we're living in. I have seen this trend with society as a whole too lately.
Not on such a vast and quickly moving scale as the internet. And it comes as quickly as it goes.

Kind of like the world has got a combination of Attention Deficit Disorder and Bipolar Disorder.

I don't think this is really a good direction of society to head towards.
Especially since the majority of society seems to not be all that clever.
 

Nixou

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Either they are:
"Awwww Kitten!!!!" or overflowing with impotent rage and loathing for everything and everyone but themselves.
Kind of a strange world we're living in.

There's nothing strange about it: worshippers of the perfidious felines can only be mentally unstable, hence the hate and loathing that appear every time people are not prostrating themselves before the deceitful cuteness of their lords and masters