Jimquisition: Why So Serious?
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I don't know why, but this whole video sorely reminds me of the too often used argument of "You're not a real fan of the series if there's anything about it you don't like!"Jimothy Sterling said:
Being a fan of a game doesn't mean I have to be joyless, and it also doesn't me I have to like everything about it, either.
I don't think this was a very good episode for the very reason you mentioned in the first two paragraph. The internet is full of people looking to be mad for any and all reasons. Regardless, if it's about videogames. I've been referring to them as "Faux Ragers". People who search the internet for something to be self-righteously upset about. Either it's a buxom videogame character, a celebrity who said or tweeted something silly, or a talking point from a political pundit. It's about the raging against people. Rather than having a constructive conversation, debate, or laugh about the given topic.wombat_of_war said:
Wow! Cesar Romero looks good for someone who passed away in 1994. =P Just joshing, Jim.
This topic is just another example of the Internet and "hardcore" gamers in desperate need to get the fuck over themselves. A lack of humor is not a sign of maturity, its a sign that says you're two steps shy of becoming a full-on sociopath.
Humor is a good thing. It's what gets people through tough times. When done right, it brings others together. But I can understand how its hard to tell the difference between good-nature ribbing and someone acting like an insensitive cocksucker. That last part can be blamed on the part portion of the Internet (and piss-poor comedies on TV and in movies) but just because someone tells a bad joke doesn't mean all humor is bad.
This topic is just another example of the Internet and "hardcore" gamers in desperate need to get the fuck over themselves. A lack of humor is not a sign of maturity, its a sign that says you're two steps shy of becoming a full-on sociopath.
Humor is a good thing. It's what gets people through tough times. When done right, it brings others together. But I can understand how its hard to tell the difference between good-nature ribbing and someone acting like an insensitive cocksucker. That last part can be blamed on the part portion of the Internet (and piss-poor comedies on TV and in movies) but just because someone tells a bad joke doesn't mean all humor is bad.
Well, this IS Metal Gear after all. For all we know she's batshit crazy and her... minimalist outfit is just a refection of some psychological trauma.Mojo said:
Or, it could be that she's Just So Good at what she does she's become jaded and needs to wear that to challenge herself.
Hell, look at it this way; If you fight her, in your full combat gear and bionic arm, and she kicks your ass, imagine how bad that makes you look.
Revengence is totally a word. A really old, esoteric word that doesn't get used in modern english, but a word nonetheless.Pyrokinesis said:
I actually kind of liked the massager heels, because they opened up a whole world of possibilities for high heels in games. You think it's impractical to strut around a battlefield in stilettos? HA, they're actually claws that let me grab things with my feet and smack you in the face with it!
For me, it depends on what the "jab" is, as well as how much I felt it was called for. I can have a sense of humor about things, but it seems today that if you make fun of something, that automatically means you hate it... I guess the words "affectionate parody" are lost on a lot of people.
Hey, I was having fun. You can take that for what it's worth. I don't need you to like it for me to like it.Zachary Amaranth said:
I liked this one a lot more than the previous episode, the previous episode felt unfinished.
Seriously though, I can't think of a single game I adore which I can't criticise or rib. TF2, which I've spent well over a thousand hours on has arbitrary critical hits which you can't do much against. Monster Hunter 3, which back in the day I probably spent just as long on was a grindfest, it took so long to complete a set of armour you would probably have outgrown the set and set your eyes on something new by the time you could craft your boots.
Same with having a laugh, Team Fortress 2 is a hilarious game, you can spend ages watching player interactions or you can get annoyed that three engineers can't figure out how to build a teleporter between them.
Seriously though, I can't think of a single game I adore which I can't criticise or rib. TF2, which I've spent well over a thousand hours on has arbitrary critical hits which you can't do much against. Monster Hunter 3, which back in the day I probably spent just as long on was a grindfest, it took so long to complete a set of armour you would probably have outgrown the set and set your eyes on something new by the time you could craft your boots.
Same with having a laugh, Team Fortress 2 is a hilarious game, you can spend ages watching player interactions or you can get annoyed that three engineers can't figure out how to build a teleporter between them.
I've had to explain to people that Yahtzee doesn't hate the games he reviews as much as he comes off. He wouldn't do the job if he did. Hell, even the MST3K guys like a lot of the movies they riffed.
I think a lot of it is a reflex reaction to the more forum based commentary we get. People online are rarely as funny as they think they are, and almost never as someone paid to do the job. Others just won't shut up about the flaw they see in something and if they aren't spamming a board about it, they have to have thier 2 cents in any conversation to the opposite viewpoint. Worst of all, is that often it isn't te game being laughed at, but the joke is in an insult to those that like it. ie: Moviebob has pulled out a line a few times in the past lamenting those liking a certain movie also have voting rights. Delivered right, it's kind of funny, but no matter how it's delivered, it comes off as mean spirited and condescending.
The oversensitivity we get back doesn't help, but I think those 3 sum it up. Even when something legit comes along, we expect at best a tired annoyance, and at worst, someone that lives to make us the butt of the joke to feed their own superiority complex. You just end up waiting for the next punchlines that say that if the thing you love is flawed, you are a loser, or less than human by proxy.
I think a lot of it is a reflex reaction to the more forum based commentary we get. People online are rarely as funny as they think they are, and almost never as someone paid to do the job. Others just won't shut up about the flaw they see in something and if they aren't spamming a board about it, they have to have thier 2 cents in any conversation to the opposite viewpoint. Worst of all, is that often it isn't te game being laughed at, but the joke is in an insult to those that like it. ie: Moviebob has pulled out a line a few times in the past lamenting those liking a certain movie also have voting rights. Delivered right, it's kind of funny, but no matter how it's delivered, it comes off as mean spirited and condescending.
The oversensitivity we get back doesn't help, but I think those 3 sum it up. Even when something legit comes along, we expect at best a tired annoyance, and at worst, someone that lives to make us the butt of the joke to feed their own superiority complex. You just end up waiting for the next punchlines that say that if the thing you love is flawed, you are a loser, or less than human by proxy.
You said they were the only games that wanted to have fun. That's not really the same as you enjoying them.Racecarlock said:
Thank you, Jim. Sincerely. Thank you, and thank God for you. I get a lot of this from my fellow Persona fans because I often make fun of Persona 4 for putting too much emphasis on forced comedy scenes and less about the supernatural murder mystery it's supposed to be about, but I love Persona 4. I do, I love it. I've beaten it several times, it's pretty much the only reason I own a Vita, and I've spent about 4 years now drawing webcomics based on it and its various spin-offs and sequels.
And yet when I make a joke about the murder mystery being a B story or Naoto being a walking exposition machine I get a bunch of "If you hate Persona 4 so much then don't play it. Not our fault you can't enjoy this perfect game!" Honestly, it's a big part of the reason why I had to stop hanging out with fellow Persona fans on the internet. Because you can't joke about that game anymore without getting serious hate and being called a troll.
And that hurts my feelings.
And yet when I make a joke about the murder mystery being a B story or Naoto being a walking exposition machine I get a bunch of "If you hate Persona 4 so much then don't play it. Not our fault you can't enjoy this perfect game!" Honestly, it's a big part of the reason why I had to stop hanging out with fellow Persona fans on the internet. Because you can't joke about that game anymore without getting serious hate and being called a troll.
And that hurts my feelings.
Can I take a stab at this one? In case anyone actually reads comment #99?
On a very surface level, I agree- and that is on the level of, "Wouldn't it be great if we could joke about the things that were dear for us, acknowledge the little flaws that we overlook in our enjoyment and even the little smudges that somehow manage to give those things character and endear them to us all the more for their imperfection?" Yes! That would be great.
...And here's why that's not going to happen.
1. As anyone who has communicated electronically for more than a few months has probably realized, things like humor, sarcasm, irony, satire, and even nuance are often lost in the shuffle. This is the medium that invented emoticons so that people could either let on that they were kidding or get away with saying god-awful things because somehow the smiley face at the end was supposed to make them all better. Combine this with the more recent trend of "TL
R", if you can't get your point across in thirty seconds or 140 characters, it's frequently not going to get absorbed at all... Unless it comes quick-cut with amusing images, has a rockin' soundtrack, or the reader looks smoking hot in tight t-shrirt.
(None of those comments is intended as a shot at anyone associated with the Escapist. No, really. Assume this was written in whatever fucking font it takes to assure you that I mean that.)
2. Welcome to the age of the meme. Just as it's started sinking in that in fact not all press is good press, we now have a "viral" media which many a PR spin doctor has tried to corral and failed. It's great to joke about a bit of wonky writing, some sub-standard character models, an art style that isn't everyone's cup of tea, or some mangled translation in an otherwise worthwhile game- up to the point where that silly thing becomes all that a significant portion of the potential audience knows about that game. And while the joke-teller may know that it's a petty minor negative thing, the rest of the audience may only know that it's a negative thing; and without context, it might be the tip of a huge, awful iceberg. The mocking of black humor at having wasted one's time and money on a bad media experience can be very hard to tell from affectionate mocking of a good media experience.
3. We now live with AAA-games, indie games, and very little in between. I think much of the hardcore fan-base of a AAA franchise knows, consciously or subconsciously, that their loyalty isn't enough to keep their beloved title cycling; the publisher expects to see growth to justify its enormous and dangerous investment, and that means it has to reach at least some people with each installment that it didn't reach before. Ideally, that would just mean that new people would see an ad that they wouldn't otherwise see (say, in a movie theater or a non-trade magazine), or some evangelist who loves the series would encourage them to give it a try. But it's just as likely that a potential audience member only hears about the alleged misogyny of GTA, or the long monologues of Metal Gear Solid, or... fill in your own list. They might not play it just because a joke penetrated where an ad campaign did not. They might even think less of someone who does play that game because of what they've heard, a situation with which all too many gamers are regrettably familiar.
While an indie game's creators might be slightly more likely to welcome a joke at their expense, it's only because it might be all that stands between them and the bottom of the bottom of Steam's mid-week sale list. They'd prefer to be lauded and the subject of tribute pages and affectionate discussion, but it's better to be looked at in morbid curiosity than not looked at at all. Still, a joke is as likely to write off an indie game as one of many such titles that failed to meet a minimum standard of professionalism than to attract the attention of buyers.
I'm not going to pretend that all, or even any, of this is behind every outraged fan response to a "joking" reference to a game; Sturgeon's Law remains in effect, and there are plenty of people simply willing to go off half-cocked if something they like is slighted. But I do think there's something to it at least to the point that people annoyed at "jokes" shouldn't be written off out of hand. There aren't a lot of jokes that someone defusing a land mine wants to hear.
On a very surface level, I agree- and that is on the level of, "Wouldn't it be great if we could joke about the things that were dear for us, acknowledge the little flaws that we overlook in our enjoyment and even the little smudges that somehow manage to give those things character and endear them to us all the more for their imperfection?" Yes! That would be great.
...And here's why that's not going to happen.
1. As anyone who has communicated electronically for more than a few months has probably realized, things like humor, sarcasm, irony, satire, and even nuance are often lost in the shuffle. This is the medium that invented emoticons so that people could either let on that they were kidding or get away with saying god-awful things because somehow the smiley face at the end was supposed to make them all better. Combine this with the more recent trend of "TL
R", if you can't get your point across in thirty seconds or 140 characters, it's frequently not going to get absorbed at all... Unless it comes quick-cut with amusing images, has a rockin' soundtrack, or the reader looks smoking hot in tight t-shrirt.(None of those comments is intended as a shot at anyone associated with the Escapist. No, really. Assume this was written in whatever fucking font it takes to assure you that I mean that.)
2. Welcome to the age of the meme. Just as it's started sinking in that in fact not all press is good press, we now have a "viral" media which many a PR spin doctor has tried to corral and failed. It's great to joke about a bit of wonky writing, some sub-standard character models, an art style that isn't everyone's cup of tea, or some mangled translation in an otherwise worthwhile game- up to the point where that silly thing becomes all that a significant portion of the potential audience knows about that game. And while the joke-teller may know that it's a petty minor negative thing, the rest of the audience may only know that it's a negative thing; and without context, it might be the tip of a huge, awful iceberg. The mocking of black humor at having wasted one's time and money on a bad media experience can be very hard to tell from affectionate mocking of a good media experience.
3. We now live with AAA-games, indie games, and very little in between. I think much of the hardcore fan-base of a AAA franchise knows, consciously or subconsciously, that their loyalty isn't enough to keep their beloved title cycling; the publisher expects to see growth to justify its enormous and dangerous investment, and that means it has to reach at least some people with each installment that it didn't reach before. Ideally, that would just mean that new people would see an ad that they wouldn't otherwise see (say, in a movie theater or a non-trade magazine), or some evangelist who loves the series would encourage them to give it a try. But it's just as likely that a potential audience member only hears about the alleged misogyny of GTA, or the long monologues of Metal Gear Solid, or... fill in your own list. They might not play it just because a joke penetrated where an ad campaign did not. They might even think less of someone who does play that game because of what they've heard, a situation with which all too many gamers are regrettably familiar.
While an indie game's creators might be slightly more likely to welcome a joke at their expense, it's only because it might be all that stands between them and the bottom of the bottom of Steam's mid-week sale list. They'd prefer to be lauded and the subject of tribute pages and affectionate discussion, but it's better to be looked at in morbid curiosity than not looked at at all. Still, a joke is as likely to write off an indie game as one of many such titles that failed to meet a minimum standard of professionalism than to attract the attention of buyers.
I'm not going to pretend that all, or even any, of this is behind every outraged fan response to a "joking" reference to a game; Sturgeon's Law remains in effect, and there are plenty of people simply willing to go off half-cocked if something they like is slighted. But I do think there's something to it at least to the point that people annoyed at "jokes" shouldn't be written off out of hand. There aren't a lot of jokes that someone defusing a land mine wants to hear.
Sorry, but I have to agree with Zachary here.Racecarlock said:
That was blunt "it is so silly, lough at it!!!" humor
Lately I think that Deus Ex: HR was best example of game serious, but with occasional laugh
Omega Ranch+animal porn
That chain of emails was hilarious
Especially when I found who was doing that
This episode made me smile...and not in the creepy Joker way.
People really should take things LESS seriously. I think a lot of problems we have would go away...and not just in the video game sense. Anyone remember the crap that happened when South Park made fun of Scientology and Issac Hayes threw a hissy fit and quit over it? Same basic idea. I mean, heck...George Carlin was raised Catholic, and yet he still pointed out that God had this list of ten things you could not do, otherwise He'd send you to this place of fire and pain to urn for all eternity...BUT HE LOVES YOU!
Truthfully, games of ANY type, not just video games, aren't supposed to be taken too seriously. Role playing gamers especially hate "rules lawyers" who follow all rules to an absolute T...and I have YET to see anyone who has not played a board game without any sort of "house rules". Also...yours truly is a guy who created a game which combined MtG, Pokémon TCG, Duel Masters, and Yu-Gi-Oh. (Don't ask.)
So yeah...like the meme goes, why so serious?
People really should take things LESS seriously. I think a lot of problems we have would go away...and not just in the video game sense. Anyone remember the crap that happened when South Park made fun of Scientology and Issac Hayes threw a hissy fit and quit over it? Same basic idea. I mean, heck...George Carlin was raised Catholic, and yet he still pointed out that God had this list of ten things you could not do, otherwise He'd send you to this place of fire and pain to urn for all eternity...BUT HE LOVES YOU!
Truthfully, games of ANY type, not just video games, aren't supposed to be taken too seriously. Role playing gamers especially hate "rules lawyers" who follow all rules to an absolute T...and I have YET to see anyone who has not played a board game without any sort of "house rules". Also...yours truly is a guy who created a game which combined MtG, Pokémon TCG, Duel Masters, and Yu-Gi-Oh. (Don't ask.)
So yeah...like the meme goes, why so serious?