Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

Jan 22, 2011
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But Jim there is just one problem with media that you buy. You have never owned a piece of media for sale, your just getting a license grant to use it. All of this is made possible thanks to the eula agreements you agree to every-time you purchase a game/sarcasm.

Please note that really was sarcasm, I do not support laws likes this in anyway due in part that it does make it illegal for your to lend, borrow or sell software you payed for.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement
 

SilverBullets000

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Apr 11, 2012
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Thank God I'm a Nintendo fanboy...and that they're the company that isn't taking away user rights little by little with DRM schemes and always online bullshit. I respect them for that more than anything else, even if they're tech is a little weak and they won't get much third party support.

Even so, here's hoping the PS4 won't pull this kind of shit. I started out last console generation with a 360, then got a wii, then a PS3. I think I have more games for the PS3 on virtue of them having better exclusives alone, but even my wii saw more use than my 360 did. I think last time I played it was for Gears 3, and I wasn't interested enough in the series to continue to the prequel.

I'll admit even as a Nintendo fan: If Sony doesn't pull this crap on us, then they'll be the most appealing system this console cycle due to their exclusives, third party support, and graphical power...but we'll have to wait and see. I won't say that Sony is perfect until after they've told us what their console does.

Even so, I already have a Wii U and have been having a blast with it, so whatever.
 

Vausch

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Dec 7, 2009
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What I see happening is the console is going to be hacked.

There's no question, people will hack the console to make it work properly. With that in mind, will Microsoft be like Sony and sue, or will the judges finally not side with a corporation and keep with the rights of first ownership that lets us do what we want with something we own?
 

Pink Apocalypse

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Oct 9, 2012
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sadmac said:
Getting real sick of Jim talking about corporations needing to put the consumer first. Why does it matter if a corporation is shitty to its consumers? How does it affect you? It's not like you're doing business with them, because surely you wouldn't actually pay someone to treat you this way, right? Right?

The problem with Jim getting upset about EA or Microsoft or whoever is the same as the problem with people who get angry because other people are gay: all of this "corporate abuse" is happening between two consenting parties in the privacy of their own homes. It doesn't involve you unless you not only consent to have it involve you, but CONTINUOUSLY PAY MONEY to be involved.
You need to Google 'False Equivalency'. Because you clearly don't understand the concept, and just made one.

He's upset because it predicates on ignorance. The amount of people that don't understand how profoundly this product will re-conceptualize the fundamental structure of 'ownership' is staggering. And in their ignorance, they will end up supporting a product that will have widespread, negative repercussions in the years to come. This isn't a 'slippery slope' fallacy; it's literary re-writing the concept of ownership.

If any clunky, ill-fitted analogy were to be drawn, it would be on par with the *opposite* of your proposal. It's an attempt by a far-reaching organization to take rights away, prevent them from being codified, or denying they existed in any form to begin with.
 

Parakeettheprawn

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Apr 6, 2013
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Xman490 said:
I, as a singular person (and NOT for One), am boycotting the Microsoft E3 conference because of their horrible DRM. If Sony doesn't plunge down that rabbit hole, I think people are justified in becoming/remaining PlayStation fanchildren.
You didn't miss anything. Seriously, the M$ fanboys tried to go "OH LOOK! A HALO TRAILER! I -NEVER- EXPECTED THAT!"

It was some of the most pathetically self-deluding bullshit I think I've ever seen. FFS there were people saying the conference sold them or that Sony needs to "up it's game"... how stupid can people be?

OT -- This goes in my treasure trove of must-link-other-people-to-it of videos.
 

geizr

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Oct 9, 2008
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And, yet, watch this thing still sell like gangbusters because gamers are just too addicted to their hobby to have any care how they get treated. As long as we get the next shiny.

Well, that's probably being too much a Negative Nancy, but it's hard to deny that the reason game companies have been escalating to these nefarious practices is because not enough of us are voting with our dollars. In my opinion, the video game community has been far too tolerant for too long of bad business and bad games, and I think it's time we become more discerning and assertive of our preferences and demand to be treated respectfully as customers, rather than cash-producing crops to be harvested. I think any other industry that treated its customers the way the triple-A segment has (and I emphasize that the bulk of the shit in the video game industry seems fairly isolated to just the triple-A segment) would find itself either bankrupt or relegated to a very niche market in short order. But often, it feels like the plurality of the video game community has become electronic-crack junkies who'll put up with anything as long as they get their next high-fidelity graphics fix, and, given the behavior of the game companies, it would seem the game companies are counting on this to be exactly true. Oh, wouldn't it be so great to shock the absolute living hell out of them all by voting with our dollars (and our feet) to turn away from their upcoming offerings in a ubiquitous display of complete and utter disgust at the direction they are taking this industry? I think if the entire gaming community really did that, we would find these companies, almost overnight, absolutely killing themselves to back-peddle on everything they have been pushing toward in an effort to win back our dollars. If they don't, then they'll likely find themselves quickly out-of-business, with nothing to blame other than their own failure to address the concerns of and provide proper service to their market.

I know I refuse to buy the Xbox-One in it's current state, and I am certain many here on the Escapist feel similar. The question is whether the gaming community at large is willing to make the same firm stance (and really mean it this time).
 

geizr

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Oct 9, 2008
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Cecilthedarkknight_234 said:
But Jim there is just one problem with media that you buy. You have never owned a piece of media for sale, your just getting a license grant to use it. All of this is made possible thanks to the eula agreements you agree to every-time you purchase a game/sarcasm.

Please note that really was sarcasm, I do not support laws likes this in anyway due in part that it does make it illegal for your to lend, borrow or sell software you payed for.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement
Actually, you do own the medium, i.e. the CD/DVD/Bluray disc that you purchased. What has usually been argued is that you are licensing the information that is contained on that medium. You are free to do with the medium as you please; however, you are not free to do with the information as you please. This has been the argument, as I understand it. The medium and the information are considered separate entities.

Now, granted, I feel that taking the strict sense of that often goes too far in justifying some of the inconveniences that content publishers have put customers through, but that is the argument that has been made in the past.

OFF-TOPIC: whoever designed this little "The Sub" video ad on the web-page needs to get his skull cracked. The thing is in the way of one-quarter of the text box that I'm typing this post in, obscuring it so I can't see what I'm typing, and I can't get rid of it.

MINOR EDITS: to correct spelling and other errors because a stupid video ad was obscuring what I was typing.
 

triggrhappy94

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Apr 24, 2010
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Did you go to a sex shop specifically to get that fist, or did you already have it laying around?
Also, I wouldn't put that thing near my mouth.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Sep 10, 2009
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Yes, that's all very true, and so VERY, VERY SAD....
I just hope my 360, PS3, Gamecube and PS2 never die on me.
Because I will have to hunt for new secondhand units of those.
NEVER will I buy this monstrosity.

Siiiigh. :(
 

BrainBlow

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Jan 31, 2013
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triggrhappy94 said:
Did you go to a sex shop specifically to get that fist, or did you already have it laying around?
Also, I wouldn't put that thing near my mouth.
He got it sent to him in the mail.
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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Didn't Sony say the exact same thing about PS4? That it's up to the publishers whether or not to allow their game to be sold used? Where is the hate for them? Not saying this in some weird attempt to defend Microsoft, but I'd rather gamers don't flee into the arms of a menacing wolf simply because the other wolf is growling and snapping more.
 

Moosejaw

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Oct 11, 2010
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This is really the logical conclusion to IP laws, the only reason no-one's been feeling it is because they haven't been trying to think of ways to enforce it very effectively. Now they are. The eventual dream: People who control the IP charging you per-view per-person, on a medium that you can only have as long as it's being viewed if there's any medium at all.
 

Proverbial Jon

Not evil, just mildly malevolent
Nov 10, 2009
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Mikeyfell said:
WHOOT!! Biker Mice from Mars!!! Any body else nostalgia all over their pants?
Hell yeah! And The Racoons too. It's like this video was dipped in my childhood memories before being served.

OT: I honestly have nothing more to say about the Xbox One. I'm done. Finished. Ceased to be. End of line.
 

Bbleds

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Sep 6, 2011
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So I am curious how does everyone really see this going? Sorry if I haven't paid attention to other posts but I wonder if this will hurt the current generations like everyone hopes. I am just going off simple numbers,but considering that if we want a good gaming PC that is about 1-3 grand and you have gaming consoles that only cost what analysts have guesstimated at 350-400 they still might have a leg up no matter what MS or Sony pulls.
 

timboo_drow

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Jul 21, 2009
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sadmac said:
Getting real sick of Jim talking about corporations needing to put the consumer first. Why does it matter if a corporation is shitty to its consumers? How does it affect you? It's not like you're doing business with them, because surely you wouldn't actually pay someone to treat you this way, right? Right?

The problem with Jim getting upset about EA or Microsoft or whoever is the same as the problem with people who get angry because other people are gay: all of this "corporate abuse" is happening between two consenting parties in the privacy of their own homes. It doesn't involve you unless you not only consent to have it involve you, but CONTINUOUSLY PAY MONEY to be involved.
I've heard this argument a lot. "Don't get upset, just don't give them any money". This is all well and good, and exactly what I plan on doing, however, the problem is, as Yahtzee pointed out, MS and probably Sony, are ending up holding a great deal of our hobby hostage. If you want to take part in a very large chunk of gaming as a hobby you're going to have to "negotiate with the terrorists" so to speak.

It's a little disheartening that so many good titles are going to get tied to this anti-consumer crap. I will, of course, have no part of it, but don't expect me to go quietly into that good night as a huge section of my hobby gets whored out to EA.
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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Jman1236 said:
Even if sony pulls this same stunt, at least nintendo is still here to save us.
Exactly, depending on how the Sony press conference goes, I may or may not run down to gamestop and buy a WiiU out of pure spite.
 

Akytalusia

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Nov 11, 2010
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with any luck, the system won't sell, and microsoft will learn its lesson.
...
i won't hold my breath though.
 

Edguy

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Jan 31, 2011
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Haven't Jim complained enough about the Xbox one now? There's many things that hit the target range of stuff he's against, I get it, but didn't het get that across well enough in the first ten videos?
 

God of Path

God of Path
Jul 6, 2011
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The appearance of (what I believe is) "Belladona's ***** Fist" made my day. Every time I see Jim use that thing I just have to laugh.