Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

Aardvaarkman

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Colt47 said:
If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?"
Car mechanics don't tend to publish public podcasts ranting against the evils of wrench manufacturers. Also, we don't pay Jim Sterling to fix our cars (or our games).
 

Aardvaarkman

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immortalfrieza said:
By putting out negative reviews of their system and games, Jim is causing people to not buy into their B.S., which far outweighs the "support" that he's giving by buying the system and it's games to accurately give out these reviews. Jim is HURTING these practices he's against by rallying against them far more than he's helping them by buying one measly console and a few games, and he's getting paid for it in the bargin. It's a win win for him and consumers.
I don't agree. He would have far more negative impact by publicly stating that he refuses to the buy the system or review any games for it. And what happens when a good game for the Xbone comes out? That's bound to happen, because surely all of the games released for it can't be bad.

Ignoring something is much more damaging than giving it attention, even if it's negative.
 

immortalfrieza

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Akalabeth said:
immortalfrieza said:
You're accusing people of using anecdotal evidence while also doing the same.
Um, hello? He ASKED me for anecdotal evidence so I gave him some. Read the posts.
You're using anecdotal evidence by you saying "I don't complain about the fact that I can't play ____ on my _____ therefore it's not a problem." If you actually care about how irrelevant anecdotal evidence is, don't retort WITH anecdotal evidence, even if asked for it, retort with real evidence.

immortalfrieza said:
Just because YOU don't give a rat's ass about backwards compatibility doesn't mean that there's no value in it.
Do you understand why things are made the way they're made?

If there's a demand for something, it'll be provided. If there's no demand, they won't bother.

Or in other words if backwards compatibility was important to a SIGNIFICANT number of people, the 360 and PS3 would still have it. Because that significant portion of the population would cut into their bottom line. But it doesn't, so they don't care.

The fact that they're abandoning it is pretty much proof that your segment of the market doesn't matter.[/quote]

PS2 was able to play PS1 games, Gamecube was able to play Gameboy and GBA games with a separate attachment that they had clearly planned for in advance, Each new Nintendo handheld since the Gameboy Advance is able to play the previous handheld generation before it, Xbox 360 is able to play some original Xbox games, even if not that well, PS3 was able to play PS2 and PS1 games until they took out the PS2 BC to get the price down, Wii is able to play Gamecube games, WiiU is able to play Wii games...

Uh huh. I'm sure they had backwards compatibiltiy for 3 CONSOLE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT because there's no market in it for them.[/sarcasm]
 

immortalfrieza

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Aardvaarkman said:
immortalfrieza said:
By putting out negative reviews of their system and games, Jim is causing people to not buy into their B.S., which far outweighs the "support" that he's giving by buying the system and it's games to accurately give out these reviews. Jim is HURTING these practices he's against by rallying against them far more than he's helping them by buying one measly console and a few games, and he's getting paid for it in the bargin. It's a win win for him and consumers.
I don't agree. He would have far more negative impact by publicly stating that he refuses to the buy the system or review any games for it. And what happens when a good game for the Xbone comes out? That's bound to happen, because surely all of the games released for it can't be bad.

Ignoring something is much more damaging than giving it attention, even if it's negative.
No, giving negative attention is the only thing that sees any results whatsoever. In fact, Jim made an entire video about this very point called "Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win", check it out.
 

Aardvaarkman

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immortalfrieza said:
No, giving negative attention is the only thing that sees any results whatsoever. In fact, Jim made an entire video about this very point called "Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win", check it out.
Buying a system and reviewing games for it is not giving it negative attention, though. So the argument kinda falls apart there. Jim doesn't need to buy an Xbone to complain about it, yet that is what he seemingly plans to do.

Also, you seem to assume that everything Jim says is always correct. Not a wise assumption, IMO. There are plenty of examples of boycotts being successful.
 

leviadragon99

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Jim... Jim, calm down, you're not meant to sharpen knives with other knives, I think you might be treading a little closer to unhinged territory than usual.
 

immortalfrieza

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Aardvaarkman said:
Buying a system and reviewing games for it is not giving it negative attention, though. So the argument kinda falls apart there. Jim doesn't need to buy an Xbone to complain about it, yet that is what he seemingly plans to do.
If the review buys it and says bad things about it, then YES IT IS! That's what "negative attention" IS. Any person that isn't just a blind lemming (and if they're smart enough to look up reviews, they probably aren't) that sees a review that negatively displays anything won't go out and buy it, especially if they see a good number of reviews that say roughly the same thing, and there goes a sale, thus support. This continues to most everybody that sees these reviews, which can number anywhere from 1 or 2 to the millions, and all that for the price of ONE console/game/whatever.
Aardvaarkman said:
Also, you seem to assume that everything Jim says is always correct. Not a wise assumption, IMO.
No, but he has been right a pretty damn good amount of the time and he's definitely right about that. Even if he had never made that video I'd still be saying the same. BTW, did you watch it?

If he wants to give an ACCURATE review then he should buy it and try it out before giving it, otherwise he's just talking out of his rear end.
Aardvaarkman said:
There are plenty of examples of boycotts being successful.
Name 1 time that boycotts have EVER worked in the video game industry. Hell, they rarely ever work in other industries these days either. The only time boycotts have really made a difference consistently was a couple centuries ago when there were significantly less people, thus a few people refusing to buy crap mattered much more.
 

AhumbleKnight

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It seems to me that Microsoft took one look at D3 and what they were doing and fell instantly in love, to the point where the built their whole console that philosophy. I just hope that games have learnt from that lesson and just don't buy in the first place.
 

AgDr_ODST

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barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.
 

Trishbot

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AgDr_ODST said:
barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.
Well, it should. Let's be honest here; you and me and everyone... we don't OWE Xbox any loyalty. We are not indentured servants or, as Microsoft wants to treat us, parole violators needing to check in with Microsoft every 24 hours for the "honor" and permission of playing the games we rightly paid them for.

I was a huge 360 owner. But not enough to be stupid to what they were doing. I jumped ship. Haven't looked back.

Though it does make me wonder if Jim will do his next podcast over PS4.
"PS4 and the Salvation of Ownership"

WOW, it feels good to have a next-gen console out there that doesn't treat me like a criminal.
 

immortalfrieza

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Akalabeth said:
immortalfrieza said:
PS2 was able to play PS1 games, Gamecube was able to play Gameboy and GBA games with a separate attachment that they had clearly planned for in advance, Each new Nintendo handheld since the Gameboy Advance is able to play the previous handheld generation before it, Xbox 360 is able to play some original Xbox games, even if not that well, PS3 was able to play PS2 and PS1 games until they took out the PS2 BC to get the price down, Wii is able to play Gamecube games, WiiU is able to play Wii games...

Uh huh. I'm sure they had backwards compatibiltiy for 3 CONSOLE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT because there's no market in it for them.[/sarcasm]
If you're not able to see the very obvious trend in that example then I can't help you.

360 never had more than limited compatibility. Xbox One dispenses with it entirely
PS3 abandoned backwards compatibility entirely mid-cycle. PS4 follows that example.
Nintendo has backwards compatibility, but only with the previous generation.

Where was the fan rage when the newer PS3 couldn't play the games people wanted? Where was the rage when the 360 couldn't play a specific title that fans wanted? It was no where. Because PEOPLE DON'T CARE.

Why did people buy Halo CE Anniversary edition when they could have just gone out and bought Halo 1 for the Xbox?
Why do HD collections of games get sold when people can just play their original games?

Not enough people complain when BC is taken out.
And people show a willingness to rebuy what they've already bought.


So why would they keep BC in? Especially when keeping it in might inflate the cost of the console and prevent people from buying it?


PS - the Gamecube was ELEVEN YEARS AGO. What they did with it, doesn't matter.
Where have you been? People complained LIKE HELL when 360 couldn't play all Xbox games. People complained even more when the PS3 lost it's compatibily with PS2 games, and they did for a while. Some people are STILL complaining about it in passing. There goes your "nobody cares" argument.

Yeah, I do see a trend here. You don't give a rat's ass about something, so it doesn't matter how many people do, they shouldn't either, even if that number of people is in the millions. You think something doesn't matter, so it doesn't matter, no matter how much it actually does. Nobody and nothing in this entire universe matters except YOU. You just dismiss everything that doesn't agree with you as irrelevant regardless of it's actual relevancy because you can't be bothered to think of actual arguments. You're less reasonable than a rock, because at least a rock will move if you push it hard enough.
 

AgDr_ODST

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Trishbot said:
AgDr_ODST said:
barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.
Well, it should. Let's be honest here; you and me and everyone... we don't OWE Xbox any loyalty. We are not indentured servants or, as Microsoft wants to treat us, parole violators needing to check in with Microsoft every 24 hours for the "honor" and permission of playing the games we rightly paid them for.

I was a huge 360 owner. But not enough to be stupid to what they were doing. I jumped ship. Haven't looked back.

Though it does make me wonder if Jim will do his next podcast over PS4.
"PS4 and the Salvation of Ownership"

WOW, it feels good to have a next-gen console out there that doesn't treat me like a criminal.
I'm at abit of an impasse when it comes to how I feel about what you said and the next gen moving forward. On one hand I agree unquestionably that you and I as gamers don't owe loyalty to any particular console or company be it MS&Xbox or Sony&PS4 but the heavy handed wording over the check in, I don't quite agree with. If I were to still buy an Xbox One, at this particular time I would have no problem by and large with the 'check in', but I can see how for many it would be an issue so I'm not so blindly ignorant as to not be able to see how it would affect others. The used games thing might present a problem if not for the fact that I buy most of my games new and at launch[footnote]At this moment only 2-3 of the games in my admittedly small library were either previously owned or are currently on loan from a friend. [/footnote], that might become an issue later on down the road if I stick with Microsoft for now at least its not an issue. One final thing you say you were a 'huge' 360 owner, but what prompted the change? Was it something before or after the X-One reveal that made you change your mind?
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Thank God for the stern Jimling indeed.

I happen to agree wholeheartedly and wholesale on this one. I shall focus and channel my rage into a healthy workout regimen, just in case summer decides to happen eventually.