Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

[immortalfrieza]

You're accusing people of using anecdotal evidence while also doing the same.

Um, hello? He ASKED me for anecdotal evidence so I gave him some. Read the posts.

You're using anecdotal evidence by you saying "I don't complain about the fact that I can't play ____ on my _____ therefore it's not a problem." If you actually care about how irrelevant anecdotal evidence is, don't retort WITH anecdotal evidence, even if asked for it, retort with real evidence.

Just because YOU don't give a rat's ass about backwards compatibility doesn't mean that there's no value in it.

Do you understand why things are made the way they're made?

If there's a demand for something, it'll be provided. If there's no demand, they won't bother.

Or in other words if backwards compatibility was important to a SIGNIFICANT number of people, the 360 and PS3 would still have it. Because that significant portion of the population would cut into their bottom line. But it doesn't, so they don't care.

The fact that they're abandoning it is pretty much proof that your segment of the market doesn't matter.[/quote]

PS2 was able to play PS1 games, Gamecube was able to play Gameboy and GBA games with a separate attachment that they had clearly planned for in advance, Each new Nintendo handheld since the Gameboy Advance is able to play the previous handheld generation before it, Xbox 360 is able to play some original Xbox games, even if not that well, PS3 was able to play PS2 and PS1 games until they took out the PS2 BC to get the price down, Wii is able to play Gamecube games, WiiU is able to play Wii games...

Uh huh. I'm sure they had backwards compatibiltiy for 3 CONSOLE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT because there's no market in it for them.[/sarcasm]

 

[timboo_drow]

This discussion is now moot. Sony listened and stuck it to MS good by actually COMPETING WITH THEM.

 

[immortalfrieza]

By putting out negative reviews of their system and games, Jim is causing people to not buy into their B.S., which far outweighs the "support" that he's giving by buying the system and it's games to accurately give out these reviews. Jim is HURTING these practices he's against by rallying against them far more than he's helping them by buying one measly console and a few games, and he's getting paid for it in the bargin. It's a win win for him and consumers.

I don't agree. He would have far more negative impact by publicly stating that he refuses to the buy the system or review any games for it. And what happens when a good game for the Xbone comes out? That's bound to happen, because surely all of the games released for it can't be bad.

Ignoring something is much more damaging than giving it attention, even if it's negative.

No, giving negative attention is the only thing that sees any results whatsoever. In fact, Jim made an entire video about this very point called "Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win", check it out.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

No, giving negative attention is the only thing that sees any results whatsoever. In fact, Jim made an entire video about this very point called "Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win", check it out.

Buying a system and reviewing games for it is not giving it negative attention, though. So the argument kinda falls apart there. Jim doesn't need to buy an Xbone to complain about it, yet that is what he seemingly plans to do.

Also, you seem to assume that everything Jim says is always correct. Not a wise assumption, IMO. There are plenty of examples of boycotts being successful.

 

[leviadragon99]

Jim... Jim, calm down, you're not meant to sharpen knives with other knives, I think you might be treading a little closer to unhinged territory than usual.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Buying a system and reviewing games for it is not giving it negative attention, though. So the argument kinda falls apart there. Jim doesn't need to buy an Xbone to complain about it, yet that is what he seemingly plans to do.

If the review buys it and says bad things about it, then YES IT IS! That's what "negative attention" IS. Any person that isn't just a blind lemming (and if they're smart enough to look up reviews, they probably aren't) that sees a review that negatively displays anything won't go out and buy it, especially if they see a good number of reviews that say roughly the same thing, and there goes a sale, thus support. This continues to most everybody that sees these reviews, which can number anywhere from 1 or 2 to the millions, and all that for the price of ONE console/game/whatever.

Also, you seem to assume that everything Jim says is always correct. Not a wise assumption, IMO.

No, but he has been right a pretty damn good amount of the time and he's definitely right about that. Even if he had never made that video I'd still be saying the same. BTW, did you watch it?

If he wants to give an ACCURATE review then he should buy it and try it out before giving it, otherwise he's just talking out of his rear end.

There are plenty of examples of boycotts being successful.

Name 1 time that boycotts have EVER worked in the video game industry. Hell, they rarely ever work in other industries these days either. The only time boycotts have really made a difference consistently was a couple centuries ago when there were significantly less people, thus a few people refusing to buy crap mattered much more.

 

[AhumbleKnight]

It seems to me that Microsoft took one look at D3 and what they were doing and fell instantly in love, to the point where the built their whole console that philosophy. I just hope that games have learnt from that lesson and just don't buy in the first place.

 

[AgDr_ODST]

barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.

 

[Trishbot]

barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.

Well, it should. Let's be honest here; you and me and everyone... we don't OWE Xbox any loyalty. We are not indentured servants or, as Microsoft wants to treat us, parole violators needing to check in with Microsoft every 24 hours for the "honor" and permission of playing the games we rightly paid them for.

I was a huge 360 owner. But not enough to be stupid to what they were doing. I jumped ship. Haven't looked back.

Though it does make me wonder if Jim will do his next podcast over PS4.
"PS4 and the Salvation of Ownership"

WOW, it feels good to have a next-gen console out there that doesn't treat me like a criminal.

 

[immortalfrieza]

PS2 was able to play PS1 games, Gamecube was able to play Gameboy and GBA games with a separate attachment that they had clearly planned for in advance, Each new Nintendo handheld since the Gameboy Advance is able to play the previous handheld generation before it, Xbox 360 is able to play some original Xbox games, even if not that well, PS3 was able to play PS2 and PS1 games until they took out the PS2 BC to get the price down, Wii is able to play Gamecube games, WiiU is able to play Wii games...

Uh huh. I'm sure they had backwards compatibiltiy for 3 CONSOLE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT because there's no market in it for them.[/sarcasm]

If you're not able to see the very obvious trend in that example then I can't help you.

360 never had more than limited compatibility. Xbox One dispenses with it entirely
PS3 abandoned backwards compatibility entirely mid-cycle. PS4 follows that example.
Nintendo has backwards compatibility, but only with the previous generation.

Where was the fan rage when the newer PS3 couldn't play the games people wanted? Where was the rage when the 360 couldn't play a specific title that fans wanted? It was no where. Because PEOPLE DON'T CARE.

Why did people buy Halo CE Anniversary edition when they could have just gone out and bought Halo 1 for the Xbox?
Why do HD collections of games get sold when people can just play their original games?

Not enough people complain when BC is taken out.
And people show a willingness to rebuy what they've already bought.


So why would they keep BC in? Especially when keeping it in might inflate the cost of the console and prevent people from buying it?


PS - the Gamecube was ELEVEN YEARS AGO. What they did with it, doesn't matter.

Where have you been? People complained LIKE HELL when 360 couldn't play all Xbox games. People complained even more when the PS3 lost it's compatibily with PS2 games, and they did for a while. Some people are STILL complaining about it in passing. There goes your "nobody cares" argument.

Yeah, I do see a trend here. You don't give a rat's ass about something, so it doesn't matter how many people do, they shouldn't either, even if that number of people is in the millions. You think something doesn't matter, so it doesn't matter, no matter how much it actually does. Nobody and nothing in this entire universe matters except YOU. You just dismiss everything that doesn't agree with you as irrelevant regardless of it's actual relevancy because you can't be bothered to think of actual arguments. You're less reasonable than a rock, because at least a rock will move if you push it hard enough.

 

[AgDr_ODST]

barring my love of early Nintendo consoles(NES&N64 respectively) early on in my life, I've been an ardent Microsoft supporter since the original Xbox. But the bad taste in my mouth that I got from the X-One's grand reveal on top of Jim bashing the ever loving shit out of it(including his tweets which i read out of curiosity) at nearly every turn is starting to take the wind out of my sails.

Well, it should. Let's be honest here; you and me and everyone... we don't OWE Xbox any loyalty. We are not indentured servants or, as Microsoft wants to treat us, parole violators needing to check in with Microsoft every 24 hours for the "honor" and permission of playing the games we rightly paid them for.

I was a huge 360 owner. But not enough to be stupid to what they were doing. I jumped ship. Haven't looked back.

Though it does make me wonder if Jim will do his next podcast over PS4.
"PS4 and the Salvation of Ownership"

WOW, it feels good to have a next-gen console out there that doesn't treat me like a criminal.

I'm at abit of an impasse when it comes to how I feel about what you said and the next gen moving forward. On one hand I agree unquestionably that you and I as gamers don't owe loyalty to any particular console or company be it MS&Xbox or Sony&PS4 but the heavy handed wording over the check in, I don't quite agree with. If I were to still buy an Xbox One, at this particular time I would have no problem by and large with the 'check in', but I can see how for many it would be an issue so I'm not so blindly ignorant as to not be able to see how it would affect others. The used games thing might present a problem if not for the fact that I buy most of my games new and at launch[footnote]At this moment only 2-3 of the games in my admittedly small library were either previously owned or are currently on loan from a friend. [/footnote], that might become an issue later on down the road if I stick with Microsoft for now at least its not an issue. One final thing you say you were a 'huge' 360 owner, but what prompted the change? Was it something before or after the X-One reveal that made you change your mind?

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Thank God for the stern Jimling indeed.

I happen to agree wholeheartedly and wholesale on this one. I shall focus and channel my rage into a healthy workout regimen, just in case summer decides to happen eventually.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

If the review buys it and says bad things about it, then YES IT IS! That's what "negative attention" IS.

No, at best it's giving "mixed signals" - sure you may have dissed it in your review - but you still gave the company money for the console, which is what really matters. And again, what happens when a good Xbone game comes along? Is Jim supposed to give it a bad review, despite being a good game? That would be less ethical than simply refusing to review the game in the first place.

No, but he has been right a pretty damn good amount of the time and he's definitely right about that. Even if he had never made that video I'd still be saying the same. BTW, did you watch it?

Yes, I've watched every Jimquisition episode.

If he wants to give an ACCURATE review then he should buy it and try it out before giving it, otherwise he's just talking out of his rear end.

Why does he have to buy it? Why couldn't he borrow someone else's system?

Name 1 time that boycotts have EVER worked in the video game industry. Hell, they rarely ever work in other industries these days either. The only time boycotts have really made a difference consistently was a couple centuries ago when there were significantly less people, thus a few people refusing to buy crap mattered much more.

What makes video games special? Boycotts have worked much more recently than "a couple of Centuries ago" - examples include Coca-Cola and Nestlé in the late 20th Century.

The the problem with this argument is that boycotts do not preclude whining. Boycotts, in fact, almost always involve vocal complaining in addition to the product boycott. Jim's argument that vocal complaining gets better results does not preclude complaining while also boycotting.

And again, I'd like to ask - if Jim hates what Microsoft is doing so much, then why should he buy the system? And where is the line? Is the title of "game critic" enough to allow him to violate his beliefs, while use lesser people shouldn't be supporting the game? The only thing these companies care about it money. If you're buying the system in order to criticize it, the company still makes as much money as if you don't criticize it. So, where's the downside?

 

[daxterx2005]

Making fun of iCarly, shame on you Jim. Shame on you!

 

[Prosis]

snip.

Yes, it will have less functionality.

Spoiler: Allow me to demonstrate.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Look at router, internet is down.
Call Comcast.
"Sure, we'll get a guy out there by Friday."
It's Tuesday.
Recall the last four times internet went down this year.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline.
Oops no internet connection.
Can't access games.
Router is working.
Google it.
Xbox has crashed server/servers down for emergency maintenance/suffered a DDOS attack/been hacked
Recall Sony fiasco, Diablo III fiasco, SimCity Fiasco, Ubisoft Fiasco
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Remember that you live outside of America or EU, or live in any rural area with minimal internet access
Suggest to friends that they buy a system they can actually play.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Can't access game
Account has been hacked/account wrongfully suspended
Call Customer Support
Popular Company, can't get a human.
Try online Customer Support.
Bot replies. Can't get a hold of a human.
Four hours later, give up
Look at physical copy of game in your hands, which you guess that you no longer technically own.
Regret buying XboxOne.

See, the internet doesn't work that way. The internet is a fickle piece of technology, prone to failure and error. If the internet is down, there is very little I can do. I can understand though that it goes down. Its technology, and technology fails. What I do not understand, however, is why this daily connection is necessary, when all it does is create the possibility for my system to fail.

So please, tell me how someone's gaming experience is improved by being forced to connect once a day.

 

[hauptberg]

Every time I turn on my 360 it goes to Xbox Live.
So explain to me how this next generation will be any different?

Currently, your internet connection going down for a couple minutes at a bad time may lose you your aim in Modern Warfare, causing you to curse briefly, apologize to your teammates, and continue. A longer outage means you'll spend your daily time playing Skyrim instead (for instance).

With the XBOne, your connection going down for a couple of minute interrupts your daily verification, and you cannot play anything, even single-player games, for a day or possibly until you call MS service (average turnaround on account issues: on the order of a week) because the corrupted check-in registered as an attempted spoof.

I'm sorry but unless you have actual proof of that process I call that fear mongering.

Here's what I believe will happen with the Xbox One

Turn it on
Ooops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Five minutes later internet is back on
Xbox tries to reconnect
Games enabled
Carry on.


See the internet doesn't work that way. If I try to go to a website with Internet Explorer and it's not available, it will tell me, and then I retry. You telling me that Xbox One will have less functionality than that? I don't think so.

Cannot connect. Retry?
YES
Cannot connect. Retry?
YES
Connection to Xbox Live made
Play game.

He is right though, Microsoft has already stated that the XOne needs be connected to the internet at all times, it has to check in at least one hour a day in order to work. If it can't do that due to internet being down, and it happens a lot. There is only one internet service provider where I live and they can't keep the damn thing stable all the time. If the XOne can't check in then you can't play any video games, but you can still watch movies and shows. YAY!(sarcasm) If it goes down for instance in the middle of a game you are playing you only have an hour window before it shuts down your video game.

It isn't fear mongering.

All you have to do is go the microsoft website, look up Xbox One specs and read the entire thing. It's all there in digital black and white my friend.

 

[GonvilleBromhead]

I'm not entirely certain how this is going to be the death of consoles, and the rise of the PC (as many have claimed).

Surely the problems inherent in the XBone are merely those that previously existed on PC that have now transferred to the console market? i.e. no used game sales, and Orwellian DRM...

 

[Strazdas]

That said I still feel it is likely that the new xbox will become basically stuck to the US(and limited even more to larger Metro areas) while the Sony, Nintendo, and the PC overall will have the rest of the world.

why do you say that?
let me guess - internet coverage?
if that is a limiting factor, Xbone would be much more popular in the rest of the world than US, because you know, US internet infrastructure is 20 frigging years old.

And what would happen to said gaming press if publishers were to pull all their advertising in a show of solidarity to the Xbone?

not much, really. there are other people who want to advertise beside publishers. Let alone not all publishers are microsoft slaves. Both sides would likely suffer, yes, but publishers would be the ones in the red.

He is right though, Microsoft has already stated that the XOne needs be connected to the internet at all times, it has to check in at least one hour a day in order to work. If it can't do that due to internet being down, and it happens a lot. There is only one internet service provider where I live and they can't keep the damn thing stable all the time. If the XOne can't check in then you can't play any video games, but you can still watch movies and shows. YAY!(sarcasm) If it goes down for instance in the middle of a game you are playing you only have an hour window before it shuts down your video game.

It isn't fear mongering.

All you have to do is go the microsoft website, look up Xbox One specs and read the entire thing. It's all there in digital black and white my friend.

maybe you need to go to thier website and read about it then, because the windows is not 1 hour, its 24 hours. so if you shut it down at 10PM and it had internet, you can boot up and play till 10PM next day even if you got no internet.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Look at router, internet is down.
Call Comcast.
"Sure, we'll get a guy out there by Friday."
It's Tuesday.
Recall the last four times internet went down this year.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

This is outrageous. The guy should be there within 2 hours at most. 99.9% uptime is in the contract.
That being said i cant remmeber the last time internet went down for more than 5 minutes. in fact it hasnt went down for even a second in the last 9 months.

Remember that you live outside of America or EU, or live in any rural area with minimal internet access

because the rest of the world has no internet.....
im sorry but US is the one with no internet.

 

[Sergey Sund]

Look at him being all proud on his "hole in one" pun.
As well he should.
The only thing that I did disagree with here is that his conclusion is "there's always the Wii U?"
No. There's the PC.
And while the same games, from the same publishers, have the same problems on console and PC alike, at least there's an alternative to those games. Publishers and developers for PC games haven't lost their senses, yet, and I'm praying to god that they're watching the slow, flaming crash of the console industry and take note of what went wrong.
It's like buying not one, but two puppies, so you can wait until one of them pisses on your floor, then get the second one and make him watch while you shoot the first one in the back of the head. Then you turn around to the first puppy and go "See? That's what happens when you pull this bullshit."

 

[TheUnbeholden]

I'm jumping off the Microsoft ship because now they want to me to go to reception every day to ensure I get a new stamp on my hand, and for some reason have a surveillance camera in my room.... they refuse to give me food if I don't!

Theres always Play Station 4.. and PC.. and older consoles. Good bye Microsoft. Next time why don't put a fucking ankle brace on me, that blows if I don't come to my X-box One every 12 hours, that requires my blood sample.