Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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immortalfrieza said:
If the review buys it and says bad things about it, then YES IT IS! That's what "negative attention" IS.
No, at best it's giving "mixed signals" - sure you may have dissed it in your review - but you still gave the company money for the console, which is what really matters. And again, what happens when a good Xbone game comes along? Is Jim supposed to give it a bad review, despite being a good game? That would be less ethical than simply refusing to review the game in the first place.

No, but he has been right a pretty damn good amount of the time and he's definitely right about that. Even if he had never made that video I'd still be saying the same. BTW, did you watch it?
Yes, I've watched every Jimquisition episode.

If he wants to give an ACCURATE review then he should buy it and try it out before giving it, otherwise he's just talking out of his rear end.
Why does he have to buy it? Why couldn't he borrow someone else's system?

Name 1 time that boycotts have EVER worked in the video game industry. Hell, they rarely ever work in other industries these days either. The only time boycotts have really made a difference consistently was a couple centuries ago when there were significantly less people, thus a few people refusing to buy crap mattered much more.
What makes video games special? Boycotts have worked much more recently than "a couple of Centuries ago" - examples include Coca-Cola and Nestlé in the late 20th Century.

The the problem with this argument is that boycotts do not preclude whining. Boycotts, in fact, almost always involve vocal complaining in addition to the product boycott. Jim's argument that vocal complaining gets better results does not preclude complaining while also boycotting.

And again, I'd like to ask - if Jim hates what Microsoft is doing so much, then why should he buy the system? And where is the line? Is the title of "game critic" enough to allow him to violate his beliefs, while use lesser people shouldn't be supporting the game? The only thing these companies care about it money. If you're buying the system in order to criticize it, the company still makes as much money as if you don't criticize it. So, where's the downside?
 

Prosis

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Akalabeth said:
Yes, it will have less functionality.
Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Look at router, internet is down.
Call Comcast.
"Sure, we'll get a guy out there by Friday."
It's Tuesday.
Recall the last four times internet went down this year.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline.
Oops no internet connection.
Can't access games.
Router is working.
Google it.
Xbox has crashed server/servers down for emergency maintenance/suffered a DDOS attack/been hacked
Recall Sony fiasco, Diablo III fiasco, SimCity Fiasco, Ubisoft Fiasco
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Remember that you live outside of America or EU, or live in any rural area with minimal internet access
Suggest to friends that they buy a system they can actually play.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.

Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Can't access game
Account has been hacked/account wrongfully suspended
Call Customer Support
Popular Company, can't get a human.
Try online Customer Support.
Bot replies. Can't get a hold of a human.
Four hours later, give up
Look at physical copy of game in your hands, which you guess that you no longer technically own.
Regret buying XboxOne.
See, the internet doesn't work that way. The internet is a fickle piece of technology, prone to failure and error. If the internet is down, there is very little I can do. I can understand though that it goes down. Its technology, and technology fails. What I do not understand, however, is why this daily connection is necessary, when all it does is create the possibility for my system to fail.

So please, tell me how someone's gaming experience is improved by being forced to connect once a day.
 

hauptberg

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Akalabeth said:
Jim_Callahan said:
Akalabeth said:
Every time I turn on my 360 it goes to Xbox Live.
So explain to me how this next generation will be any different?
Currently, your internet connection going down for a couple minutes at a bad time may lose you your aim in Modern Warfare, causing you to curse briefly, apologize to your teammates, and continue. A longer outage means you'll spend your daily time playing Skyrim instead (for instance).

With the XBOne, your connection going down for a couple of minute interrupts your daily verification, and you cannot play anything, even single-player games, for a day or possibly until you call MS service (average turnaround on account issues: on the order of a week) because the corrupted check-in registered as an attempted spoof.
I'm sorry but unless you have actual proof of that process I call that fear mongering.

Here's what I believe will happen with the Xbox One

Turn it on
Ooops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Five minutes later internet is back on
Xbox tries to reconnect
Games enabled
Carry on.


See the internet doesn't work that way. If I try to go to a website with Internet Explorer and it's not available, it will tell me, and then I retry. You telling me that Xbox One will have less functionality than that? I don't think so.

Cannot connect. Retry?
YES
Cannot connect. Retry?
YES
Connection to Xbox Live made
Play game.
He is right though, Microsoft has already stated that the XOne needs be connected to the internet at all times, it has to check in at least one hour a day in order to work. If it can't do that due to internet being down, and it happens a lot. There is only one internet service provider where I live and they can't keep the damn thing stable all the time. If the XOne can't check in then you can't play any video games, but you can still watch movies and shows. YAY!(sarcasm) If it goes down for instance in the middle of a game you are playing you only have an hour window before it shuts down your video game.

It isn't fear mongering.

All you have to do is go the microsoft website, look up Xbox One specs and read the entire thing. It's all there in digital black and white my friend.
 

GonvilleBromhead

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I'm not entirely certain how this is going to be the death of consoles, and the rise of the PC (as many have claimed).

Surely the problems inherent in the XBone are merely those that previously existed on PC that have now transferred to the console market? i.e. no used game sales, and Orwellian DRM...
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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TheSapphireKnight said:
That said I still feel it is likely that the new xbox will become basically stuck to the US(and limited even more to larger Metro areas) while the Sony, Nintendo, and the PC overall will have the rest of the world.
why do you say that?
let me guess - internet coverage?
if that is a limiting factor, Xbone would be much more popular in the rest of the world than US, because you know, US internet infrastructure is 20 frigging years old.

Urh said:
And what would happen to said gaming press if publishers were to pull all their advertising in a show of solidarity to the Xbone?
not much, really. there are other people who want to advertise beside publishers. Let alone not all publishers are microsoft slaves. Both sides would likely suffer, yes, but publishers would be the ones in the red.

hauptberg said:
He is right though, Microsoft has already stated that the XOne needs be connected to the internet at all times, it has to check in at least one hour a day in order to work. If it can't do that due to internet being down, and it happens a lot. There is only one internet service provider where I live and they can't keep the damn thing stable all the time. If the XOne can't check in then you can't play any video games, but you can still watch movies and shows. YAY!(sarcasm) If it goes down for instance in the middle of a game you are playing you only have an hour window before it shuts down your video game.

It isn't fear mongering.

All you have to do is go the microsoft website, look up Xbox One specs and read the entire thing. It's all there in digital black and white my friend.
maybe you need to go to thier website and read about it then, because the windows is not 1 hour, its 24 hours. so if you shut it down at 10PM and it had internet, you can boot up and play till 10PM next day even if you got no internet.

Prosis said:
Turn on XboxOne to play Single Player Game Offline
Oops no internet connection
Can't access games.
Look at router, internet is down.
Call Comcast.
"Sure, we'll get a guy out there by Friday."
It's Tuesday.
Recall the last four times internet went down this year.
Wonder why XboxOne needs an internet connection for an offline game.
Regret buying XboxOne.
This is outrageous. The guy should be there within 2 hours at most. 99.9% uptime is in the contract.
That being said i cant remmeber the last time internet went down for more than 5 minutes. in fact it hasnt went down for even a second in the last 9 months.

Remember that you live outside of America or EU, or live in any rural area with minimal internet access
because the rest of the world has no internet.....
im sorry but US is the one with no internet.
 

Sergey Sund

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May 20, 2012
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Look at him being all proud on his "hole in one" pun.
As well he should.
The only thing that I did disagree with here is that his conclusion is "there's always the Wii U?"
No. There's the PC.
And while the same games, from the same publishers, have the same problems on console and PC alike, at least there's an alternative to those games. Publishers and developers for PC games haven't lost their senses, yet, and I'm praying to god that they're watching the slow, flaming crash of the console industry and take note of what went wrong.
It's like buying not one, but two puppies, so you can wait until one of them pisses on your floor, then get the second one and make him watch while you shoot the first one in the back of the head. Then you turn around to the first puppy and go "See? That's what happens when you pull this bullshit."
 

TheUnbeholden

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I'm jumping off the Microsoft ship because now they want to me to go to reception every day to ensure I get a new stamp on my hand, and for some reason have a surveillance camera in my room.... they refuse to give me food if I don't!

Theres always Play Station 4.. and PC.. and older consoles. Good bye Microsoft. Next time why don't put a fucking ankle brace on me, that blows if I don't come to my X-box One every 12 hours, that requires my blood sample.
 

Falsename

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Ha! We didn't start out very strong together Jim, but I think we've become great friends. And I've found myself taking your words with sincerity.

Good for you for making it into that part of my heart Jim.
 

Colt47

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Aardvaarkman said:
Colt47 said:
If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?"
Car mechanics don't tend to publish public podcasts ranting against the evils of wrench manufacturers. Also, we don't pay Jim Sterling to fix our cars (or our games).
Guess we agree to disagree then.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Roxor said:
DTWolfwood said:
Would be nice to see the gaming press to show a bit of solidarity to the consumer by not covering the system and its exclusives upon release.

Having it die a pitiful death from lack of coverage is the best way to say fuck you to Microsoft and their new xbox.

I'll do my part in not buying the system, but alas me and my kind only make a small percentage of xbox customers. :(
It would be nice to see games reviewers adopt the position of "It's on the Xbox One. 0/10", but that'll never happen.

As for me, I'm not going to buy it. Why would I when I already have a decent PC?
Indeed. You can always buy a PS4. You know the next gen console thats $100 less and doesnt require internet to work.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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Colt47 said:
Aardvaarkman said:
Colt47 said:
If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?"
Car mechanics don't tend to publish public podcasts ranting against the evils of wrench manufacturers. Also, we don't pay Jim Sterling to fix our cars (or our games).
Guess we agree to disagree then.
So car mechanics do publish public rants against wrench manufacturers and refuse to service people's cars because of it? Can you give me a link to that?

I'm also unaware of anybody paying for Jim Sterling to fix their car, but I suppose only Jim can answer that question accurately.
 

Colt47

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Aardvaarkman said:
Colt47 said:
Aardvaarkman said:
Colt47 said:
If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?"
Car mechanics don't tend to publish public podcasts ranting against the evils of wrench manufacturers. Also, we don't pay Jim Sterling to fix our cars (or our games).
Guess we agree to disagree then.
So car mechanics do publish public rants against wrench manufacturers and refuse to service people's cars because of it? Can you give me a link to that?

I'm also unaware of anybody paying for Jim Sterling to fix their car, but I suppose only Jim can answer that question accurately.
There isn't an end to this argument Aard. You're assuming that he has a reasonable out to reject purchasing the Xbox One and I'm assuming otherwise. That is why I made the previous statement.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Aardvaarkman said:
I have to disagree with this. By buying the product, you are supporting it. If you sincerely mean what you are saying here, you would refuse to buy it, and put that stance ahead of your job as "game reviewer." It also seems that you have plenty of potential income as a commenter on the games industry without having to directly review games. Your Jimquisition episodes are very popular here, and none of them have been an actual game review.

So, I think you should put your money where your mouth is. If you disagree so vehemently with what Microsoft is doing, then you should not support them financially by buying their games, consoles, or Operating Systems. That just enables the policies you supposedly despise.

And what of your viewers/readers? Those of us who aren't game critics don't have the excuse of "it's my job." If you enjoy a Xbone game, do we get moral absolution to buy the Xbone, despite us not being employed as game critics? Apart from the financial support you would be providing Microsoft, any positive review you would give of an Xbone game would equate to promoting the platform.

I think hypocrisy is a very appropriate word to use here, because you want to use your pedestal to be outraged, while simultaneously enjoying the system without guilt.
Still all very much based in assumption. I may not even have to buy an Xbox One to review it, for one thing, depending on how blacklisted I am by Microsoft at this point.

In any case, my game reviewing work is my actual job. My primary source of income, and I am contracted to review videogames for major systems. I see no conflict in honoring my contract while very publicly making my disdain known for a company's business practices. I think people see hypocrisy where they want to, because they love the thought of catching people in the act.

Like I told the other guy, maybe work out what I do in my other lines of work and wait to see what I do in November before rushing to use everybody's favorite H-word.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Like I told the other guy, maybe work out what I do in my other lines of work and wait to see what I do in November before rushing to use everybody's favorite H-word.
Helium? I didn't know you were a Hynerian, Jim. May you always have the finest foodstuffs, my Dominar.
 

Tim Chuma

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I wonder if it is too far along in development for Watch Dogs to use the always-on internet and Kinnect to make a statement and change the game mechanic with some Psycho Mantis style twist. It wouldn't be a twist if they told anyone about it though and possibly illegal.

The Xbox One will probably get hacked at one point in its lifecycle any way.
 

immortalfrieza

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Akalabeth said:
Hahaha.
Dude quit embarrassing yourself by making this personal. You're more intelligent than that.

I don't care who you are. And I don't care if you or anyone else cares who I am. And I really don't care who these alleged millions of people are either. There are millions of people who have issues but none of them seem to regularly complain on these forums or any of the other forums I visit. People are still buying games. People are still buying new PS3 consoles when they dropped BC. They complain, and then they buy it anyway. The PS3 used to be the worst seller of the main three, then they dropped BC and they dropped the price, and then sales took off.

So if you're a console manufacturer.
And you drop the BC
And then sales increase

What do you think your plan for the future will be?

Are you going to release a pricier console with BC?
Or are you going to release a cheaper console without it?


If you resell a game that's already available via BC and people buy it, are you going to spend money to try and keep those gamers happy by ensuring they can play their old games? Or are you going to spend a few bucks, refurbish it, and resell it so people will buy it again?


The only voice that matters is how you spend your money and the way that people have been spending their money is determining, in part, the next generation of consoles. If you don't like the way it's going, then don't buy into it.
Whatever. The fact is there are plenty of people out there who want things like backwards compatibility and to be able to trade, borrow and sell games anywhere they want and don't want things like 24 hour internet check ins and used game fees, and I think you know it. I don't have actual numbers for this, but it's a common sense thing and even if I did I have the feeling you wouldn't listen anyway.

Buddy, I don't know who you are, but the only one embarrassing themselves here is you. I'm not going to argue with you further. I'm starting to wonder why I started to begin with, if you honestly don't know why people want things like backwards compatibility and why what Microsoft is doing is wrong from the very start, then there was never any hope for you. What's become quite clear to me after all you've said is this: you know I'm right, you know you are wrong, and the only reason you're still arguing at this point is you just don't want to admit it. I mean, how could you not know? I and everybody else here has blown every one of your arguments so far out the water they're hitting the moon and you're STILL ARGUING! Either that, or you are impossibly ignorant, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, because I'm trying VERY hard not to insult you at this point. Any REASONABLE person would have conceeded my point LONG ago.
 

TheSpyIsASpyWDZ

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Dec 15, 2012
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Akalabeth said:
TheSpyIsASpyWDZ said:
Akalabeth said:
Holy Snip...
Right, because your not basing any of your points on opinions at all, and your applying a liberal amount of facts here too right? Right...? I mean, you had evidence to back up that people don't keep their games? I'm just saying anecdotal evidence is better than what you have, which is none.
Evidence that people don't keep their games?
HAVE YOU BEEN IN A STORE? Do you not see an ENTIRE WALL devoted to used games? Do you not see bins full of used games? Or entire stores that sell nothing but used games?

Man alive.

TheSpyIsASpyWDZ said:
I mean, I keep my games instead of trading them in, so I can replay them. But that's just my experience so it obviously doesn't matter. I mean, your complaints about lack of evidence really is kind of strange when you have hardly any evidence for what you said. Also, what evidence do you have for Steam users not having Dial-Up, because I used Steam with Dial-Up at one point. Sure, downloads were painful, but at least I could play games.
Good for you. Now with the xbox one, you can do EXACTLY the same thing, play your games.

As for your old games, what are you going to throw out your 360? I have a Sega Master System, I don't complain that I can't play those cartridges on my 360. I didn't complain that I couldn't play Atari games on my Master System.

And yes, the EARLY 360s were notably unreliable, the later models are not. The 360 will be around for a long time. And if at some point it happens to die out, then I'm sure some guy is gonna throw together an emulator and you can play them on PC or the popular ones will get rereleased in cheap bundles or whatnot.
Wait, this is sorta fun actually, YOU went to a GameStop store and the wall was full of used games? ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. If you say you can't use human experience as evidence I won't take it from you either. You really like making blanket statements saying that people don't keep their games without having a single figure to prove it. I'm sorry, it's just kinda hypocritical, and I refuse to believe that the majority of games are sold back to GameStop without evidence. That's the main problem I find with that argument. I dunno, the idea that people don't keep their games the majority of the time just seems off.
 

Trishbot

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AgDr_ODST said:
I'm at abit of an impasse when it comes to how I feel about what you said and the next gen moving forward. On one hand I agree unquestionably that you and I as gamers don't owe loyalty to any particular console or company be it MS&Xbox or Sony&PS4 but the heavy handed wording over the check in, I don't quite agree with. If I were to still buy an Xbox One, at this particular time I would have no problem by and large with the 'check in', but I can see how for many it would be an issue so I'm not so blindly ignorant as to not be able to see how it would affect others. The used games thing might present a problem if not for the fact that I buy most of my games new and at launch[footnote]At this moment only 2-3 of the games in my admittedly small library were either previously owned or are currently on loan from a friend. [/footnote], that might become an issue later on down the road if I stick with Microsoft for now at least its not an issue. One final thing you say you were a 'huge' 360 owner, but what prompted the change? Was it something before or after the X-One reveal that made you change your mind?
I'd be happy to tell you what caused the change of heart.

Frankly, I just took a big step back and looked at the Xbox One, and all I see is a system defined by what it CAN'T do rather than what it CAN, and then I took a step further back and saw how it compared to its competition.

The Xbox One:
1) must check-in with Microsoft once a day. If it fails its check-in, it will not work for 24 hours. Obviously, some people have better internet than others, but nearly 60% of next-gen console owners did not take their system online, while many don't have good connections in rural areas, and, globally, internet use is much more limited. This doesn't take into account servicemen serving overseas, college dorms that have rules that you can't use their internet for gaming, and impractical housing layouts that don't put an internet router near the television. Again, problem for many, but not all. PS4 works 100% offline so nobody playing it has to worry.

2) inevitable loss of games. All the games, old AND new, require that online check to work. But eventually Microsoft will shut down the servers when they feel they don't need them anymore, and you'll have a brick for a system and no way to play the games you paid hundreds of dollars for. It's like shutting down an MMO; that's the end, only a system-wide scale. In 10 years, none of your games may work. Xbox 1's servers were totally shut down three years ago; what promise is there that in 10-20 years you can play ANY games on this system? PS4 games will never have this problem.

3) loss of game ownership; and this is a big one. The reason Microsoft can even DO that is they have taken the stance that games are not a product you own but exclusively a service they provide; a service offered on their terms which they have the right to alter and even discontinue to their benefit. It's a huge slap in the face of consumer rights, spits on the First Sale Doctrine, and generally robs customers of a protected legal right they've had for decades. You don't "own" a game collection any more; you have an extended rental they permit you to possess until they call it in. PS4 games will work decades from now with full game ownership rights in-check.

4) used game fees and restrictions. Reselling your games is now a major hassle, and can only be done at "approved" retailers (I assume Ebay, Amazon, Craigslist, and YOU YOURSELF don't qualify). This doesn't include the additional activation fees, the inability to properly share or loan your games, or the fact that game "licenses" can only be transferred ONCE, meaning the used game market will be stifled. That also rubs me the wrong way that Microsoft and the publishers feel entitled to getting a share of used game profits, when legally they are entitled to NONE of it, while actual developers won't see a dime because they're paid hourly wages anyway. PS4 has ZERO used game restrictions.

5) The system is region-locked. This is nothing new, but it's still a major issue for people who move around or travel, or, in this generation's case, the fact that really amazing games and DLC were locked out of certain regions (I created a UK and Japanese account just to get some UK-exclusive and Japanese-exclusive DLC for Xbox games that never made it to America). It's a huge block to importers and those that travel or move internationally. Again, PS4 is region-free.

6) mandatory Kinect and privacy concerns. Microsoft tried to downplay this and even deny it, and people who defend them will claim "conspiracy theory nuts" and "tin-foil hats", but then the scandal that is the government spying program PRISM comes to light just the other day and Microsoft is revealed to be the first person on-board with giving the government access to user's personal and private information, chat-logs, skype videos and conversations, etc. And then they create the "always-on", mandatory Kinect that can see everything you do, even in the dark, track your movements and moods, your spending habits and gaming habits, etc. It's not optional, is not removable, and even "turning it off" only puts it in a state of hibernation. That, and the fact that apart from Dance games, the Kinect never worked well. PS4 has an optional PS Eye device that's not required whatsoever.

7) Xbox Live is still a rip-off. It really is. Of course, Playstation is charging for online now too, but unlike Xbox, which is more expensive and fills your dashboard with a sea of unwelcome ads, the Playstation version is cleaner and actively rewards PS+ users with new games that fully justify the price of the service.

8) non-removable harddrive and mandatory installs. The Xbox One has mandatory game installs, and a 500GB HDD. That seems like a lot, but if games are going to be around 40-50GB that's going to fill up FAST. It's non-upgradable, non-removable, so you're stuck with it, even if you have an external HDD. PS4's HDD is customizable and upgradable, plus gives gamers the option of playing from disc if they desire, leaving space open for other games or features.

9) System power. Many devs have come forward and confirmed the PS4 is actually more powerful than the Xbox One, with more memory to use, faster processing power, better CPU and internal hardware, more developer-friendly, and gaming optimized.

10) indie support (or lack of it). This is a big one too. Xbox One showed... what, one or two indie games, and one of them is an "indie" game bought by over 11 million people already? They only went after the most popular ones, while Playstation 4 revealed a nearly 20+ roster of indie games. Furthermore, Xbox One demands indies find triple-A publishers, or have Microsoft publish it (and take some money from the indies), while PS4 allows indies to SELF-PUBLISH while PS4 revealed plans to actively promote the indie games, including offering them as free titles on PS+. Huge win for indie gaming.

11) Price. $499 for Xbox One. $399 for PS4. A hundred dollars is a huge difference, especially when the PS4 offering more player options and freedom with better system hardware. Xbox One tacks on additional fees too and has far less options (unless "I can watch TV on a console" is a big deal to you).

12) Games. This is always going to be debatable, but I feel Sony just has better games and exclusives coming their way. Microsoft's "exclusives" have not been getting favorable press coverage, while their old hallmarks have sort of passed their prime (Bungie abandoned Halo for "Destiny" which is on PS4, Epic has no plans to make more Gears of War games, Fable has sunk in quality, etc.). Even "Killer Instinct" was revealed to be a money-grabbing free-to-play game where you have to buy every single character in the roster... ugh.

13) Gamers. Xbox One doesn't want you. It doesn't want gamers. It wasn't made with you in mind, just publishers and TV watchers. Games are a tangible side-effect, like games on an iPhone. Any system that has so much between YOU and the GAMES is a system not for gaming. PS4, by comparison, is a game system, front and center, for gamers, with very little between you and your games. It's more convenient, more powerful, more respectful of you as a consumer, less expensive, and boasts enough exclusives and genre variety to keep gamers happy for months and years to come.

That's how I saw all of this, at least, and I know I'm forgetting some things (such as PS4's Cloud-based backwards compatibility plans and Vita connectivity), but that's the overall gist. I hope that clarifies why I changed from Xbox to Playstation this upcoming generation.