Judge Awards Sony With Visitor IDs of PS3 Hacker's Website

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
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Oh goodie. I went to his site once when it was linked in an article about the key being taken down and his message he left there. I guess now Sony thinks I'm a criminal. Well, if they ever come after me or try to even imply I was there to get jailbreak materials, I will be happy to film the destruction of every Sony product I own and never buy any more of their products again.
 

LCP

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Dec 24, 2008
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Sony, you've lost a consumer.

This is nothing short of nonsensical
 

RowdyRodimus

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Apr 24, 2010
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pyroghast said:
i am calling it right here anonymous will probably do something about this it seams like their thing, freedom speech and all that
Yeah there is the freedom of speech, but that goes the opposite way too. What I mean is that posting on the internet doesn't grant you immunity from from conspiring to break laws. They are subpoenaing IP's for the purpose of rounding up the people that have broken copyright law. Saying, "LOL" on a video isn't going to get you into any trouble, but if you said something like "Yeah, now I can play that burned copy of Uncharted 2" then you might be looked into.

Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean you are immune from following it. Work to change the law by legal means, start protests (and breaking the law and posting how to do it as a way of 'fighting oppression' isn't a protest), send letters educating lawmakers, send mock ups of bills to congressmen; that type of thing.

SONY is well within its rights to do what they have done. Do I like that they have done it? It really doesn't bother me. But as I said, if people want change in the laws with new mediums there are ways to go about it, what this guy did was just spit in the face of the law and say he is above it.
 

TheEvilCheese

Cheesey.
Dec 16, 2008
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Scorched_Cascade said:
Dear California legal system,
The internet is not your jurisdiction. We have our own police here
Regards,
Europe

Someone really needs to get round to defining international internet information laws. To have the California court hand over records of everyone breaks laws in other countries (e.g data protection act).

A Californian court could give information on people who arn't even subject to it's legal system and never intend to have any interactions with california (*Greetings from Europe*)? This is not good.
This, a thousand times this.


Yeah, it seems a little stupid that I (as someone who was linked there when he was in the news) could now have my details) in Sony's books...and I'm in the UK.

Good thing I don't own a single Sony product.
 

Illyasviel

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Nov 14, 2010
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Siiiiggghhhhhh.

Hi guys, welcome to the Internet. Seeing that a lot of you are new to the Internet, let me mentor you on some of the workings of this wild digital frontier.

Let's take a step back and stop specifically focusing on Sony getting the courts to subpeona Google or whoever. Let's take a look at the the big picture, if you will. If I were that piece of shit GeoHot, this is exactly the type of news I would want everybody to focus on to garner sympathy. Its a good gameplan really, and while I'm not suggesting the author of this article is under GeoHot's thumb, let's dissect this sensationalist crap.

The very fact that Sony can subpeona Google, Twitter, etc. for information about visitors collected years ago tells us a few important things:

Number one: This information exists.

Number two: Google, Twitter, etc. have been collecting this information. In fact, they've been collecting this information for years. And years. And years. And that they haven't deleted this information, and furthermore, probably have never even considered deleting this information. Regardless of how sensitive this information is or that it could be possibly out of date.

"You're full of shit and a liar" you might be thinking. "Cite your sources you liar!" "You just made that all up!"

Pay attention. I don't need to cite sources. I have taken a statement, disassembled it, and reassembled it in a way that does not abridge its implications. I have only drawn logical conclusions regarding the implications made. This is automatically proof positive.

A lot of you "protect personal freedom at all costs" types getting ready to take your righteousness out of your pants are really chumps if you haven't realized this all. That's right. Every single search query you put through google including that one for "naughty teacher extracurricular lessons" has been saved on a Google hard disk somewhere in this world, locked away, possibly to used for further reference at an undisclosed time in the future.

You might argue that "Google is my friend." "They wouldn't do anything with all that personal information they've collected about me that I wouldn't want them to do." Well, you're wrong. Your tiny, petty, insignificant feelings are worth peanuts compared to the multi-billion revenue this industry generates every single year. And even if Google won't do it, Twitter will. So will Amazon. And FaceTube ( Top Gear reference ). Pretty much everybody really.

Furthermore, do you think Google cares about these physical lines you've drawn in the sand when you're on the Internet? Not really they don't.

It was only a matter of time before somebody wizened up and decided to use the court system to get at all this information. And in fact, Sony isn't the first.

So if you really are a privacy advocate, Sony is hardly your enemy. Google is. The Internet is. They were the ones who made this court case possible, GeoHot was only the catalyst and Sony the actor. Even if you're like me and block all Google analytics scripts and so on and so forth, every week, a new book about who you are and what you are doing is being written, and published, without your consent, from information gathered about your online habits.

Sorry if I've shocked you ( and sorry for the long post ). Welcome to the Internet kiddos.

Oh, and by the way, Sony isn't going to use this information to pursue individuals like you, unless you too are part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene. Then, well, being part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene is technically illegal, and they had a valid case against you anyway, no matter how many times you play your stupid game of "your court has neither authority or jurisdiction in this matter." This is all strictly business, and unless you aren't Joe Blow, in the scope of this action, Sony doesn't care about you.
 

Verkula

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Oct 3, 2010
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Cool, according to these posts i live in a fantasy world where pirates are the good guys, like in the movies, hell yeah! Lets murder and loot all we can, also give me rum.
 

kurokenshi

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Sep 2, 2009
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RowdyRodimus said:
Yeah there is the freedom of speech, but that goes the opposite way too. What I mean is that posting on the internet doesn't grant you immunity from from conspiring to break laws. They are subpoenaing IP's for the purpose of rounding up the people that have broken copyright law. Saying, "LOL" on a video isn't going to get you into any trouble, but if you said something like "Yeah, now I can play that burned copy of Uncharted 2" then you might be looked into.

Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean you are immune from following it. Work to change the law by legal means, start protests (and breaking the law and posting how to do it as a way of 'fighting oppression' isn't a protest), send letters educating lawmakers, send mock ups of bills to congressmen; that type of thing.

SONY is well within its rights to do what they have done. Do I like that they have done it? It really doesn't bother me. But as I said, if people want change in the laws with new mediums there are ways to go about it, what this guy did was just spit in the face of the law and say he is above it.
True GeoHotz did infringe on the law but that doesn't give Sony the right to subpoena peoples private information world wide. It's a blatant abuse of privacy!
 

Me55enger

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Dec 16, 2008
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And so, because they have more money, Sony bring a carpet bombing to a duck hunt.

Since when did a California judge hold that level of rights to the internet?
 
Jul 11, 2008
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Well, what are they gonna do with that information? For all we know, all they want to do is put those people on a priority list of IPs to check whether those people are using pirated software, or hacked PS3s (I don't even know if it's possible to do that), and disable them, which Sony says they can do. Point is, I doubt they'll do anything with that information unless they can use it in such a way as to prove that the person at the other end is actually doing something illegal with their PS3s. In other words, if you're not actually pirating or hacking, I highly doubt you have anything to worry about.
 

Sovereignty

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Jan 25, 2010
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The Wykydtron said:
Hmm i believe this theme would fit this perfectly


Wtf Sony don't you think you're going a little bit too far?

I'm afraid to watch your video.

I fear that when Nintendo sues people for flashing their 3DS they'll trace the viewing of the video to me and sue me.



Scary timesss
 

Me55enger

New member
Dec 16, 2008
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TheEvilCheese said:
Scorched_Cascade said:
Dear California legal system,
The internet is not your jurisdiction. We have our own police here
Regards,
Europe

Someone really needs to get round to defining international internet information laws. To have the California court hand over records of everyone breaks laws in other countries (e.g data protection act).

A Californian court could give information on people who arn't even subject to it's legal system and never intend to have any interactions with california (*Greetings from Europe*)? This is not good.
This, a thousand times this.


Yeah, it seems a little stupid that I (as someone who was linked there when he was in the news) could now have my details) in Sony's books...and I'm in the UK.

Good thing I don't own a single Sony product.
Very much this.

Also: when all this blows over, and whoever has won, do you really think Sony will remove all those names and their details from their system?
 

TheEvilCheese

Cheesey.
Dec 16, 2008
1,151
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Me55enger said:
Also: when all this blows over, and whoever has won,
do you really think Sony will remove all those names and their details from their system?
Sony? Give up on free advertising? Somehow I doubt it.
Those details will be used for marketing, no two ways about it.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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Jan 20, 2010
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If you haven't done anything wrong it shouldn't be a problem. This whole, "oh noes the company has my info" crying is stupid. You gave it out when you joined the Escapist, Facebook, Youtube, and your e-mail. Get over yourselves.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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Illyasviel said:
Oh, and by the way, Sony isn't going to use this information to pursue individuals like you, unless you too are part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene. Then, well, being part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene is technically illegal, and they had a valid case against you anyway, no matter how many times you play your stupid game of "your court has neither authority or jurisdiction in this matter." This is all strictly business, and unless you aren't Joe Blow, in the scope of this action, Sony doesn't care about you.
Not gonna bother with your whole 'privacy' comment, since it's pretty much true. (and almost impossible to avoid, given how the internet works)

But Reverse engineering is done all the time, and it used to be specifically allowed by the laws of many countries. (Although depending on how you did it, it could be illegal. - If you have intimate information about how something works through means other than actual reverse engineering of the hardware/software or whatever)
Now, that's not to say you could legally make use of this information, because some of it could be patented, or subject to other laws that prevent the use of whatever you learn by reverse engineering something.

Recent laws have made a mess of it, specifically the DMCA banning anything that allows circumventing copy protection (which this case obviously does).
But even here there are specific cases (interoperability being a major one) that allow reverse engineering to be applied to create a workaround.
(Recent court cases ruled that jailbreaking a phone was legal, after all. And the only way anyone could have figured out how to do this would have been reverse engineering parts of the devices and software involved.)

Anyway, Reverse engineering is a messy, complicated legal issue, with no simple answers as to what's legal and what isn't.
The problem with this case is that it involves a workaround to a DRM scheme (obviously illegal), but also seems to be the only method to get a hardware device to do what you want it to. (Not illegal, usually.)
That makes it problematic, to say the least.

Well, whatever. Sony will probably get it's way. If that's a good thing or not, I really don't know.
 

KaosuHamoni

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Apr 7, 2010
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Nu-uh... I don't care if I love your console to bits, Sony, that is one hell of a dickish move...

I r not amused, Sony... Not amused one bit.
 

Orcus The Ultimate

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Nov 22, 2009
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Privacy Violation has no bounds, the one with the money is the king of the jungle... this is so wrong in many ethic ways.
 

SaintWaldo

Interzone Vagabond
Jun 10, 2008
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gibboss28 said:
as I said in a previous post:
I wish Sony would get a grip, this entire thing is the equivalent of Sony slipping on a bit of ice, and then flinging their own shit at the people who saw it happen.

Because all of this is simply about Sony being pissed off about the fact someone showed them up.
I wish people would get a grip and understand that this is the only this Sony can do at this point. This isn't SecuROM and it isn't a schoolyard challenge, no matter how immature GeoHot acts in front of his sister's webcam.

In that previous post, you seem to have forgotten Sony's legal obligations to their shareholders, the ones that pretty much compel them to pursue this to the fullest possible extent. Sony failing to pursue this would be tantamount to suicide. You should try running a international corporation that deals on a daily basis the snarled web that is intellectual property law. You might get a little less cavalier about your ability to pick battles. You might not attempt to reduce your motivations for protecting your and others investment by any means available. Just like your competitors do.

I really wish everyone would stop acting like this is the first time anyone got sued over hacking. Microsoft tries to do it [http://www.dailytech.com/Nintendo+Wins+Lawsuit+Against+DS+Emulation+/article14447.htm], and often ends up wearing clown shoes. Those are just recent highly visible examples. More surely exist. Win or lose, taking it to the courts is WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO when you run this kind of business, or else your shareholders will be taking YOU to court. Deal with it.

An aside, a lil' history: If you think Sony fucks around, you might want to talk to a little company called Lik-Sang [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lik_Sang]. Oh wait, you can't talk to them because their illegal business was crushed by Sony's legal teams. What you might not remember is that ALL THREE major console companies sued them initially. Because their shareholders demand it.

Not necessarily evil. Definitely not unique to Sony. Attempting to make it seem so might allow one to reasonably infer you have a skewing bias. Just saying.
 

Macrobstar

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Apr 28, 2010
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jovack22 said:
People speak with your dollar.

Stop buying bluray, and PS3 games. Switch to PC, Wii, or XBOX360 if you want to game...

Feeding this mega corporation is a bad idea considering the fact that they are willing to go to these lengths.
No. I like my PS3, they may have my info but I don't care, I have done nothing wrong and anyone who is innocent has nothing to worry about