Judge Refuses To Dismiss League of Legends Terrorist Threat Case
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In May, my I am earning my degree in Classics, which included Constitution and Federalist Papers, to name a few. And I have written my fair share on politics and law. Two years of experience working in the state legislature.Zachary Amaranth said:
And instead of hanging onto a single word of my statement you may wish to try to grasp the whole. I understand that may be difficult since you've taken it upon yourself to singlehandedly attack half the posts in this thread - quality over quantity is the way to go in communication, I assure you.
Except for the fact that when you're (and I mean you specifically, and me, and every other human being on the planet) exposed to something, it becomes part of your available lexicon. This doesn't mean you have to start using it, but the possibility that you will use it is there, and in offhand moments, you're far more likely to than you would think (because you're not thinking right then). In short, it was a bad joke made in an offhand moment. I think we can all agree that this happens a lot.Little Gray said:
I was using eight years more as an example. I guess I could've thrown in "Potentially," but I didn't think anyone would just assume I was saying he would get/has gotten eight years. Clearly, I was wrong--you're the one person who did. No, he may not get the max sentence--I don't know what he'll get. But he could get eight years, so that's what I went with.amaranth_dru said:
Calm down a bit, hm? And for future reference, insulting people doesn't help your case.
I cannot believe some of the replies in this thread. This whole incident has been nothing more than a witch hunt.
All this kid did was make a stupid, and OBVIOUS sarcastic comment on Facebook. Some random lady, somehow not seeing the sarcasm, reported him to the authorities. They then went nuts, blowing it way out of proportion, not only arresting the kid at work, searching his place (and finding nothing), but throwing him in jail for 5 months (having found absolutely nothing), some of which was in solitary confinement. If not for some anonymous (and honestly just amazing person) who paid for his ridiculous 1/2 million bail, he would STILL be in jail now awaiting trial. A trial which could technically land him in up to 8 years in prison.
How are any of you not even remotely appalled by this type of treatment? Where the hell has basic human rights and the rights to free speech gone in your country? Innocent until proven guilty? If you honestly .... HONESTLY think that this kid deserved even a shred of the punishment he has received thus far, not to mention could still possibly face, then you have something wrong with YOU! Yes, YOU! You either have some kind of twisted superiority complex, a disturbingly frightening ego or a horrific lack of empathy. Personally I would be more worried about YOU with your points of view than this poor kid. You seem like someone capable of thinking and doing terrible things.
Imagine you were at a bar and said to a mate "I hate my boss and my work, I might just go and blow them all up tomorrow", just venting frustration and obviously not meaning it. Let's say someone overheard you and reported you to the police. Now you have just spent 5 months in jail with a 1/2 million bail. You also face 8 years in prison. Do you think you deserve it for saying what you said?
If you do, I have no words for you...
All this kid did was make a stupid, and OBVIOUS sarcastic comment on Facebook. Some random lady, somehow not seeing the sarcasm, reported him to the authorities. They then went nuts, blowing it way out of proportion, not only arresting the kid at work, searching his place (and finding nothing), but throwing him in jail for 5 months (having found absolutely nothing), some of which was in solitary confinement. If not for some anonymous (and honestly just amazing person) who paid for his ridiculous 1/2 million bail, he would STILL be in jail now awaiting trial. A trial which could technically land him in up to 8 years in prison.
How are any of you not even remotely appalled by this type of treatment? Where the hell has basic human rights and the rights to free speech gone in your country? Innocent until proven guilty? If you honestly .... HONESTLY think that this kid deserved even a shred of the punishment he has received thus far, not to mention could still possibly face, then you have something wrong with YOU! Yes, YOU! You either have some kind of twisted superiority complex, a disturbingly frightening ego or a horrific lack of empathy. Personally I would be more worried about YOU with your points of view than this poor kid. You seem like someone capable of thinking and doing terrible things.
Imagine you were at a bar and said to a mate "I hate my boss and my work, I might just go and blow them all up tomorrow", just venting frustration and obviously not meaning it. Let's say someone overheard you and reported you to the police. Now you have just spent 5 months in jail with a 1/2 million bail. You also face 8 years in prison. Do you think you deserve it for saying what you said?
If you do, I have no words for you...
Mostly my point isn't clear and I apologize. I mean that while he could get up to 8 years, he most likely will get time served and a probationary period unless the judge is an assjack, which happens. But generally with minor cases like this, even though he's tried as an adult, they usually don't levy the max sentence because of age and the fact that he didn't follow through with his threat. The law takes threats seriously which is why my stance is that the kid was stupid as hell and insensitive to the current events. While maybe he thought he was being edgy and hip, even words have consequences and he's experiencing the causality of his ignorance. While we do have free speech in the US, it is supposed to be tempered with common sense and all and even a threat in jest can be taken as a real threat. We can say what we want but we also need to understand that what we will also have to deal with the consequences of our thoughtless words. Freedom of speech isn't a protection of all forms of speech.BarbaricGoose said:
Freedom has its consequences. We're free to do what we will but we're also free to deal with the backlash of what we do which is something people ignore. Its not a wise idea to make threats in any form, even in jest, because the government takes threats seriously and doesn't give leeway for joking around. If this were a case of a satirical comedy sketch or tv show or stand-up comedy act, it would be different. But this kid decided that the tragedy of Sandy Hook was free license to toss out whatever insensitive drivel he chose and now he's paying for it. Like it or not, if we were to let folk run rampant with stuff like that and ignore threatening language, we could end up with another tragedy because of inaction. Its a political move, and while I disagree with a lot of politics, this is one area I do agree with. People need to learn that threats are not humor, and are serious business.
Also I wasn't intending to be insulting and for that I apologize, I have been dealing with folk who were being combative and lacking reading comprehension, taking things to the extreme and ignoring the way the justice system tends to deal with these things. Again I apologize for the perceived insult, it wasn't my intent.
...Wait the judge is...And some of the comments in this thread...I..
WHAT?! Just WHAT?!
Ok, look this is what SHOULD have happenned:
1) Kid makes tasteless joke that might be seen as a threat.
2) someone reports it.
3) Cops arrest him, search house.
4) Cops find nothing and also determine the comment was clearly sarcasm
5) cops go into his cell and say "You are being charged with terroristic threats and will likely go to PRISON for 8 years"
6) Cops wait a few seconds for this to sink in and then yell "LOL JK! HAHAHAHAHA. But no, really, you're being released. Don't be a dumbass again, or you might actually go to prison."
7) Cops keep him under surveillance for a while and eventually just file this away.
The fact he went to PRISON for 4 months, got raped and beaten to the point he had to be put in Solitary FOR HIS OWN SAFETY is already way too !@#$ing much. And now he's STILL facing up to 8 years in jail?
Meanwhile, some douchefuck steals booze from a wal mart, drives drunk despite being underage, kills 4 people and braindamages one passenger permanently and he gets off with therapy at a place that supposedly has "equine (horse) therapy", because he has "affluenza" because he's too rich to know what consequences are. And some girls who bullied a girl to suicide and said "I don't give a fuck" get off with just therapy.
Justice in America is screwed up. If this kid goes to jail at all beyond what he's already suffered, I will be really upset. If this kid goes to jail for over 4 years, your country is totally fucked up beyond belief. If he gets the full 8 years, Your nation (or at least the state this takes place in ) is dead to me.
I mean really. I get the need to make sure this wasn't an actual threat and the need to impress upon the kid how serious this is, but the amount of blood some people are calling for is appalling.
The worst thing is I think Canada is heading in this direction too. I think I need to move to Sweden.
WHAT?! Just WHAT?!
Ok, look this is what SHOULD have happenned:
1) Kid makes tasteless joke that might be seen as a threat.
2) someone reports it.
3) Cops arrest him, search house.
4) Cops find nothing and also determine the comment was clearly sarcasm
5) cops go into his cell and say "You are being charged with terroristic threats and will likely go to PRISON for 8 years"
6) Cops wait a few seconds for this to sink in and then yell "LOL JK! HAHAHAHAHA. But no, really, you're being released. Don't be a dumbass again, or you might actually go to prison."
7) Cops keep him under surveillance for a while and eventually just file this away.
The fact he went to PRISON for 4 months, got raped and beaten to the point he had to be put in Solitary FOR HIS OWN SAFETY is already way too !@#$ing much. And now he's STILL facing up to 8 years in jail?
Meanwhile, some douchefuck steals booze from a wal mart, drives drunk despite being underage, kills 4 people and braindamages one passenger permanently and he gets off with therapy at a place that supposedly has "equine (horse) therapy", because he has "affluenza" because he's too rich to know what consequences are. And some girls who bullied a girl to suicide and said "I don't give a fuck" get off with just therapy.
Justice in America is screwed up. If this kid goes to jail at all beyond what he's already suffered, I will be really upset. If this kid goes to jail for over 4 years, your country is totally fucked up beyond belief. If he gets the full 8 years, Your nation (or at least the state this takes place in ) is dead to me.
I mean really. I get the need to make sure this wasn't an actual threat and the need to impress upon the kid how serious this is, but the amount of blood some people are calling for is appalling.
The worst thing is I think Canada is heading in this direction too. I think I need to move to Sweden.
Sarcasm on trial, nice.
Prison time isn't justifiable for 90% of the tripe they put in the law books, but this goes beyond unjustifiable to batshit inane.
Words do not hurt people and using words is not a crime under any circumstances, end of discussion. No prison sentence, no slap on the wrist, nothing. When something actually happens and someone gets hurt, then you can talk about the "justice" that's backed with the iron fist of the law and the iron chains of the prisons.
Anything less, and you're effectively advocating for a violent response to a nonviolent action, making you just as bad as, if not worse than those you condemn and invalidating your position outright.
Prison time isn't justifiable for 90% of the tripe they put in the law books, but this goes beyond unjustifiable to batshit inane.
Words do not hurt people and using words is not a crime under any circumstances, end of discussion. No prison sentence, no slap on the wrist, nothing. When something actually happens and someone gets hurt, then you can talk about the "justice" that's backed with the iron fist of the law and the iron chains of the prisons.
Anything less, and you're effectively advocating for a violent response to a nonviolent action, making you just as bad as, if not worse than those you condemn and invalidating your position outright.
Yes, the kid was "Stupid as hell." Weren't you at that age? I know I was. Being stupid is part of growing up--making mistakes is a big part of how we learn. Not that I'm trying to excuse his actions--he should be punished. I think, however, this whole ordeal has been punishment enough, what with becoming suicidal and being put in solitary confinement.amaranth_dru said:
Free speech is supposed to be tempered with common sense, sure, but justice should be tempered with mercy. If we're gonna start locking up kids who say stupid shit on the internet, then we better just throw all the kids in jail.
Again, I'm not arguing that what he did was okay, or that we should just give him a slap on the wrist. My point was always that he should be punished, but not with prison. You put someone who isn't a criminal into prison, and there's a damn good chance that they'll come out one. We're just shooting ourselves in the foot when we do shit like that, and we do plenty of it already. There are so many better alternatives to prison for this kid, I don't even know where to start.
Making the comment on Facebook wasn't too bright, but around the point he got to 'and eat their still beating heart' I would hope that people would have enough common sense to understand that maybe, just maybe, he was being sarcastic. He did something a tad dumb. Do I need to elaborate more? I mean, gee whiz, a teenager doing something dumb? Boy, I would have never expected that to happen.
I think this judge needs to be fired. I don't feel it's what the teenager did that was dumb, but how he did it. And honestly, what he did was harmless. The judge wasting everyone's time with this absolute garbage however, just goes beyond dumb. It's insulting, it really is, to think that this has to be an issue. Perhaps firing this judge isn't even enough. Perhaps this judge should be arrested. Because if we're actually going to make this into a thing because a teenager did something dumb, then I hope that this judge gets punished even worse; because unlike a teenager that may say something dumb, I expect people in authority to have just a teensy bit of accountability for when they do something dumb.
Do I need to make this anymore clear? This judge, unlike that teen, is in a place of responsibility. This person has a job. That alone is incredibly frightening, but do we really want this person to be a judge?
I think this judge needs to be fired. I don't feel it's what the teenager did that was dumb, but how he did it. And honestly, what he did was harmless. The judge wasting everyone's time with this absolute garbage however, just goes beyond dumb. It's insulting, it really is, to think that this has to be an issue. Perhaps firing this judge isn't even enough. Perhaps this judge should be arrested. Because if we're actually going to make this into a thing because a teenager did something dumb, then I hope that this judge gets punished even worse; because unlike a teenager that may say something dumb, I expect people in authority to have just a teensy bit of accountability for when they do something dumb.
Do I need to make this anymore clear? This judge, unlike that teen, is in a place of responsibility. This person has a job. That alone is incredibly frightening, but do we really want this person to be a judge?
I tell you, if I had a nickel for everyone who threatened to move to Canadia because of something they didn't like, I'd be able to retire to Canadia and live like a queen.otakon17 said:
Also, if even half the people did it, I'm pretty sure America would have emptied out four times over by now.
Sort of ironic, though, that the woman who alerted the authorities was from Canadia, eh?
We shouldn't be jailing people for thoughts and things that they say. If it cannot be proven that he possessed the means or desire to carry out his stupid comments, I'd say scaring him is a bit more in line with appropriate than taking 8 years away from his life because he's an ignorant little shit.
I personally find his comments vile, but we also don't lock up members of hate groups who talk about genocide, and yet, we are willing to lock up some stupid 19-year old because he makes casual mockery of events that happened within recent memory. The idea of putting someone into jail for speech alone is reprehensible.
I personally find his comments vile, but we also don't lock up members of hate groups who talk about genocide, and yet, we are willing to lock up some stupid 19-year old because he makes casual mockery of events that happened within recent memory. The idea of putting someone into jail for speech alone is reprehensible.
Clearly a lot of people on this thread do not understand the concept that punishment has to be proportionate to the crime. Or of "Innocence until proven guily".
Other than the statement the idiot kid made, they have zero proof that he is an actual threat to anyone other than himself, and yet they have treated him like scum before they have eve gotten around to putting him on trial. He has already been raped and put under suicide watch for god's sake, and you think he deserves MORE?!
Seriously, if you honestly believe that, at worst, he deserves any more than the time he has already served, please kill yourself. I am not laughing, or joking. You are a goddamn disgrace to humanity and you don't deserve to live. I mean Jesus H. Fucking Christ, imagine what you evil, sick bastards would be calling for if he committed an ACTUAL crime.
Other than the statement the idiot kid made, they have zero proof that he is an actual threat to anyone other than himself, and yet they have treated him like scum before they have eve gotten around to putting him on trial. He has already been raped and put under suicide watch for god's sake, and you think he deserves MORE?!
Seriously, if you honestly believe that, at worst, he deserves any more than the time he has already served, please kill yourself. I am not laughing, or joking. You are a goddamn disgrace to humanity and you don't deserve to live. I mean Jesus H. Fucking Christ, imagine what you evil, sick bastards would be calling for if he committed an ACTUAL crime.
...That's where I stopped reading. It's not that I think you don't grasp the situation, or clearly know the difference between word and action, it's that you are just arguing to argue. As much as you claim to know the situation, you're missing the point entirely. This isn't a case about free speech, this was a case about "terrorist action". When we can't say "high school" and "shoot" in the same sentence without being branded terrorists then there's no free speech to debate about.Zachary Amaranth said:
It's a little disgusting you're defending a system you are so open to admitting it's failures. But that's totally fine, you are entirely welcome to do that.
Kinda like that kid who got off after killing 4 people while drunk driving? The innocent are unforgiven for making simple mistakes and people guilty of murder go without consequence.Infernal Lawyer said:
I think being branded a terrorist is what's got most people riled up here. Threats in general tend to be called "terrorist threats" by the courts. I shared plenty of anger management classes with men convicted of making terrorist threats against their girlfriends.
Also, if this kid is actually getting his ass kicked in jail (not prison, he hasn't been convicted of anything) then he's simply an asshole that still hasn't learned to shut his mouth and sucks at making friends.
Also, if this kid is actually getting his ass kicked in jail (not prison, he hasn't been convicted of anything) then he's simply an asshole that still hasn't learned to shut his mouth and sucks at making friends.
Dude spent five months in jail with bail that was set well out of his reach, meaning if not for the charity of strangers he'd still be in jail. Nothing he gets at this point could be considered a "slap on the wrist."valium said:
Though the only reason I brought those up is that you did.option1soul said:
What a strange thing to say, when I am merely responding to your accusations and claims. I'm only "arguing" because you were incorrect on several points, not the least of which was your knowledge of free speech. The "argument" only continued because you opted to try and double down and shame me on my lack of understanding of free speech.
So you're changing your story and your argument. Well, then.
And when you can demonstrate that's true, you'll have an argument. As far as I can tell, this is every bit as hyperbolic as the last line of reasoning you argued.
You're willing to completely lie about what I say to further an argument you completely backtracked on. Taking the moral high ground at this point seems...Silly.
Yeah, let's try this again. I am not defending any system, I am speaking to the reality of the system. There's a large difference. There's no need to conflate the two. Talking to a reality you don't like doesn't mean I'm defending it. Just acknowledging its existence.
And hello massive false equivalence.
No way do you think this is really the standard.
Edited to fix the accidental quote of infernal lawyer.