Just figured out why I like Fallout 3 more than New Vegas

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Saviordd1

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Fistful of Ebola said:
Fallout 3 was based on the Gamebyro Engine, the same one used in Oblivion that was also a retooled version of the same engine used for Morrowind. And Skyrim is just using a retooled Gamebryo engine, which Fallout 4 (and a hypothetical New Vegas sequel) will also be using. Even then, the two have obviously and radically different design philosophies that wouldn't account for this. The excuse you're using doesn't fly.
Throwing names around doesn't make your argument valid.

Morrowind to Oblivion, Oblivion to Fallout all called for extensive retooling of the engine to suit its needs.
Two games can use Havok, doesn't mean they were that similar.
Each game to each game needed a lot of retooling, except for New Vegas which could have all been built in the damn GECK if Obsidian was lazy.

Guy from the 80 said:
Saviordd1 said:
But that's my opinion, what do you think?
The same as you. Pretty much everything in 3 is better. New Vegas is empty space with some cut and paste building scattered around but with some interesting people here and there.

ninja edit : Some of the locations in New vegas just looks utterly silly. I mean common, did they hire a baboon to do the level design?
Eh I wouldn't quite say that. The companion characters in NV are better, and the gameplay tends to be better.

Though FO3 has Fawkes....so who knows.
 

Skeleon

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Rastrelly said:
Skeleon said:
I get what you mean, OP. I do prefer especially the inner DC ruins of Fallout 3 to New Vegas. Many more ruined buildings to explore, streets, blocks. Heck, even the subways, repetitive as they may be, are awesome in terms of atmosphere.
All that said, I still prefer New Vegas for gameplay reasons (quests, perks, interactions etc.). Not to mention I like its DLCs better, which are a huge part of the respective games to me.
Considering how much closer we are to the West Coast in New Vegas, it kind of makes sense that the feel would be more similar to the old games, heh.
Sorry... Engine building?! I understand assets and models... But engine building? You must be joking.
What. I never even mentioned... engine building? Huh?!
 

Rastrelly

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Skeleon said:
Rastrelly said:
Skeleon said:
I get what you mean, OP. I do prefer especially the inner DC ruins of Fallout 3 to New Vegas. Many more ruined buildings to explore, streets, blocks. Heck, even the subways, repetitive as they may be, are awesome in terms of atmosphere.
All that said, I still prefer New Vegas for gameplay reasons (quests, perks, interactions etc.). Not to mention I like its DLCs better, which are a huge part of the respective games to me.
Considering how much closer we are to the West Coast in New Vegas, it kind of makes sense that the feel would be more similar to the old games, heh.
Sorry... Engine building?! I understand assets and models... But engine building? You must be joking.
What. I never even mentioned... engine building? Huh?!
Sorry. I didn't notice quoting wrong person >_<
I've used to "Quote" button bottom positioning )
 

Spaceman Spiff

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scorptatious said:
I do prefer the Mojave though personally, as I feel it has a more realized world. How you may ask? Let this video answer for you:

I love that video. It does a good job explaining how in general Fallout 3's towns make no damn sense and shows how little thought was put into the game world. It's 200 years after the bombs fell and DC's inhabitants have made nearly no effort to rebuild and have somehow survived on a few brahmin, scavenged pre-war food, and a handful of lab-grown vegetables.

New Vegas has a much better, more believable environment.
 

happyninja42

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Saviordd1 said:
AH GOD, RUN FOR COVER; IT'S A NEW VEGAS v. FALLOUT 3 THREAD!

Wait, no, stop; it's not!
...
Don't give me that look.
...
I PROMISE this isn't a New Vegas v. Fallout 3 thread.
...
Well be that way.
Dick.

ANYWAY
For a while now I've tried to figure out exactly why I like Fallout 3 better. I mean New Vegas has more guns, more in common with the original Fallouts, more characters, mostly better characters, etc. Yet Fallout 3 was my Fallout port of call, not New Vegas; why?

Blaming the bugs was to easy, especially since several hundred patches and user made patches has fixed most of the problems.

And "Fuck Obsidian" is a bad argument.

So what is it?

Well today while roaming the New York State Museum (Which is a nice place to go for anyone who lives around Albany BTW.) it hit me rather suddenly.

It's the atmosphere. I don't mean atmosphere as in the greenish lighting of 3 versus the organgish of New Vegas. I mean how the game really feels to wander in.

Fallout 3 makes you feel like you're truly treading through a destroyed civilization. Like the hundreds of dead civilizations before it this one died suddenly and left its remains behind. You walk amongst the ashes of a true super power whose history is quickly being lost to all but a bare few people.

Compare to New Vegas, who shows civilization on the rise. Empires are being built, lines drawn, old world comforts returning, etc.

Fallout 3 is post Sherman Atlanta and New Vegas is Reconstruction.
Fallout 3 is walking through a radioactive Pompeii and New Vegas is the wild west.


And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?
I agree 100%, I was actually talking last night to my wife about the difference in the two games. I've been fiddling with New Vegas, to try and play as Vash the Stampede, a gunslinging pacifist who doesnt kill anyone. And while the IDEA of playing it in New Vegas is interesting....I just....can't feel compelled to play New Vegas. It doesn't feel Post-Apocalyptic to me at all. It just feels like I'm in a shitty part Nevada desert with some rundown structures. Yeah the monsters and stuff, but, it doesn't FEEL like I'm making my way through the gutted out carcass of a long dead behemoth, like in Fallout 3.

So yes, the mood/atmosphere is definitely lacking the post-apocalypse feel to me. My ideal game would be Fallout 3 with New Vegas mechanics. So yeah OP,*thumbs up* I support you.
 

DeathQuaker

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In terms of atmosphere and setting, I liked both, even though they were different. It doesn't have to be either/or to me. I actually LIKED that they were different, because it gives a sense of verisimilitude in that different areas would have developed differently 200 years after the bombs dropped.

Washington, DC was more heavily bombarded and had things like the Super Mutant vault influence its slower post-apocalyptic evolution. It also had fewer truly functional Vaults out of which people might resettle the land--all of the Vaults in the area that I can recall were largely some of the more whacky experiments, where fewer people survived to get outside; the only normal-ish Vault with its work ethic experiment was 101 which had its isolationist overseer that prevented them from settling the outside world. That meant most of the human inhabitants were descendants of outside-vault survivors whose society would probably have devolved far more during the direct post-war before re-establishing something more resembling civilization. I do wish that Bethesda's designers would have put a little more thought into the world development--the Washington area is effectively swampland and without human maintenance would largely have devolved back into a swamp, and along with that there would have been a lot more vegetation, however mutated (but 200 years after nukes is enough for plants to grow back--the area around Chernobyl is largely green now after all). And of course the whole water purification thing was silly; the Potomac's a pretty damn big river with tributaries in areas that would have been far less affected by the war, and in 200 years much of the sunken Fallout should have washed out to the ocean. But I think they still established an interesting atmosphere.

Las Vegas was minimally attacked--there was less concentration of attacks and many of the ones that hit were deflected by Mr. House's defense system--so there was more to rebuild from. And there were a couple more "survivor" vaults--27 put out fine survivors, however gambling obsessed. I get the sense 3 got some people out before the Fiends took over--they were actively trading with the area before they were attacked. And the armory one whose number I can't remember obviously at least the people who became the Boomers survived. So there were more people, more records of past civilization, and more tools with which to rebuild. Oh, and there are the Followers of the Apocalypse, whose purpose is to help recover past useful tech to rebuild society--they haven't made it out East yet, and that also may have some influence.

So the evolution of each area, side by side (so to speak) makes sense, and to me the differences are part of what makes the Fallout setting as a whole cool. I like the post-post-apocalypse world of New Vegas and the more struggling world of the Capital Wasteland equally. I enjoy the atmosphere in both, they are realized well and feel like complete worlds.

My only thing where I personally prefer New Vegas over Fallout 3 is I like the main plotline better. I felt like in New Vegas I had some real choices to make and I felt like the struggle between the warring factions was central to the Fallout series' theme. In F3's main plot, I felt like a spectator rather than the protagonist, and frankly? My douchebag, deadbeat Dad and his water purifier can suck it. The fact that I didn't have the option to kill him myself (nor even get any dialogue options to express I was glad of his demise) is particularly sadmaking.

OTOH, I liked many of F3's sidequests better.

Oh, and New Vegas definitely wins for having better companions. (Veronica, how do I love thee? Let me count the punches. One, two, three...)

But both games had some great areas to explore (on replaying New Vegas, I found the sewers which I'd never found or done anything at all in my first game; in F3 I've often found some random little cave or shack I hadn't noticed before), cool atmosphere, some neat boss fights, interesting factions. I think both are worthy entries in the Fallout series and I feel sad when people act like if you like one, you must hate the other -- there's plenty of room for both for each of their strengths to shine.
 

purplemonkey555

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I was actually just talking about this with a few friends of mine. FO3 was the first Fallout game I ever played, but I've read a lot about the older ones and I appreciate the way NV gets back to the older ones in both back story and certain gameplay features.

I like the story and atmosphere a whole lot more in 3 than in NV. Something about wandering around a destroyed city is just more appealing to me than wandering around a desert, 3 had a way better intro, and the location of Vegas itself was disappointing to me, not counting Freeside. When I got to Vegas I just thought: "Wow, this is it? Three streets?" The casinos are nice, but it just seems small to me. The only thing I really liked better in NV's narrative was the companion interactions, which were pretty much non-existent in 3.

Gameplay wise though, NV hands down. Modding weapons is great. Interchangeable types of ammo (with unique ones you get to make yourself!) is awesome. Jury-rigging perk is ridiculous, I once fixed a .50 cal Anti-Material Rifle with parts salvaged from a BB Gun. I also really liked the companion wheel they added and the way different companions actually play differently. It's not like "Here are a few guys with guns, and here is Fawkes to render them all obsolete." Plus it just has more more more sidequests, weapons, locations, enemies, companions, etc.
 

Doom972

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Valid reasons. Personally, I felt that NV was more in tune with the atmosphere set in Fallout 1 & 2, and I felt that it's time for large civilizations to come into existence in the post-apocalyptic world.

I do like Fallout 3 very much as well.
 

Dosbilliam

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Saviordd1 said:
And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?
Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well. :p
Right Hook said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
The atmosphere in FO3 would make sense if it was just a few decades after the bombs, but two hundred years? We went from horse-and-carts to landing on the damn moon in that time period. Are you seriously suggesting in that same length of time, no-one in the Capital Wasteland has yet worked out how to not live life like a hobo?
In their defense,they didn't have our opportunities and we didn't have to contend with radiation and giant mutant creatures, including the Deathclaw. I'm not saying the state of things makes total sense for two centuries but it stands to reason that DC would be a complete shit show compared to anywhere else, seeing as it is a capital and it would stand to reason that it would be hit ten times harder than elsewhere. The area also lacked a lot in the way of a helping hand, the Enclave was there to beat down anybody who tried to help and the Brotherhood wasn't much better with it's technophiliac ways, you end up with two battling factions which rarely if ever benefits the territory they turn into a battle-zone. It reminds me of two separate and distinct cultures, nobody can travel across the country effectively anymore, so you end up with a more advanced western civilization not far from one looking like a war torn middle eastern nation.
Actually, the Enclave didn't arrive there (going by Fallout 3's lore) until after the events of Fallout 2, which would have given them about 160 years to rebuild. (2 starts in 2241, 3 starts in 2277)
 

Saviordd1

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Dosbilliam said:
Saviordd1 said:
And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?
Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well. :p
Just no.

I mean I'm glad you agree and all but no.

Spending time on the New Vegas forums of steam doesn't really put you in a position of authority.

And almost nothing in gaming is Objective (Except for like, stability). Some people could hate all the things new vegas does gameplay wise.
 

Zenn3k

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Saviordd1 said:
AH GOD, RUN FOR COVER; IT'S A NEW VEGAS v. FALLOUT 3 THREAD!

Wait, no, stop; it's not!
...
Don't give me that look.
...
I PROMISE this isn't a New Vegas v. Fallout 3 thread.
...
Well be that way.
Dick.

ANYWAY
For a while now I've tried to figure out exactly why I like Fallout 3 better. I mean New Vegas has more guns, more in common with the original Fallouts, more characters, mostly better characters, etc. Yet Fallout 3 was my Fallout port of call, not New Vegas; why?

Blaming the bugs was to easy, especially since several hundred patches and user made patches has fixed most of the problems.

And "Fuck Obsidian" is a bad argument.

So what is it?

Well today while roaming the New York State Museum (Which is a nice place to go for anyone who lives around Albany BTW.) it hit me rather suddenly.

It's the atmosphere. I don't mean atmosphere as in the greenish lighting of 3 versus the organgish of New Vegas. I mean how the game really feels to wander in.

Fallout 3 makes you feel like you're truly treading through a destroyed civilization. Like the hundreds of dead civilizations before it this one died suddenly and left its remains behind. You walk amongst the ashes of a true super power whose history is quickly being lost to all but a bare few people.

Compare to New Vegas, who shows civilization on the rise. Empires are being built, lines drawn, old world comforts returning, etc.

Fallout 3 is post Sherman Atlanta and New Vegas is Reconstruction.
Fallout 3 is walking through a radioactive Pompeii and New Vegas is the wild west.


And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?
I completely agree with you that FO3 is more "destroyed" and more "atmospheric" to the whole "post-war" life of Fallout, 100%.

However, thats actually part of the reason I don't like FO3 over NV myself. Its been 200 years. FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?

Vegas felt like what Fallout would be after 200 years. Remember, in FO1 its only been 84 years. Things should still have been in rough shape, its probably only been some 30 years or less since people started to really settle down and be able to even work the land at all. 200 years after the bombs, DC shouldn't still be this wild and untamed.

Really it was an issue with setting and time that broke FO3 for me and really made me not enjoy it as much over time...that and the fact it was simply too easy, 1HKing Deathclaws at level 15 was laughable easy...New Vegas didn't pull punches with enemy difficulty, which I found more compelling.

Anyway, your reason is sound for what you wanted to experience...but to me, it felt wrong given the world time. Had they just set it at the same time as FO1...say 84-90 years after the bombs, it would have made more sense and been a better game.
 

white_wolf

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Fistful of Ebola said:
white_wolf said:
I like FO3 because the plot makes more sense then FO4 I can fallow a girl who looking for her dad but not a guy or girl who just got shot in the head and lost all good sense and decided to go get the guy who shot them because they wanted their crappy chip back for no reason other then to look at it. I also hated the music in 4 I spent the whole game wishing for three dog and felt the game wasn't nearly as fun, Vegas was disappointing.
How far did you get in the game? The platinum chip is extremely important, and the Courier wasn't going after it because they want to look at it. Hell, the reason you pursue them is totally up to you, from revenge to wanting to get your package back and complete the job. This is even lampshaded at one point by Mr. New Vegas. The platinum chip is just a MacGuffin to propel you into the plot.
Which is the problem sure the chip became important later as more of an after thought. You can reason whatever you like as to why your guy or gal is going to get it back but the plot doesn't and that's an issue its simply I got shot now I need to get it player fill in why its important not the game. To me its seems coincidental the chip is useful otherwise the developers wouldn't have had you chase it down but they could've handled it alot better.

For instance if the hero just got beaten and robbed and their motive is to get the chip make the delivery so he/she and their sister can get into their equivalent of Ten Penny Tower so they can live safely and eat well then we've got a reason to go get the chip that the plot can explain but also give a relateable reason why my hero then isn't some twisted freak who can't take the idea that a bullet to the head is a very good stay the heck away warning sign not to go get the guy who shot them.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zenn3k said:
FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?
Every time someone asks this question I wonder if they understand how civilization works....

The single most fundamental necessity for any large scale civilization is clean water, this is a fundamental truth throughout history, without water, there can be no civilization, and, this is the whole point of Fallout 3's main quest.

The whole point of the game was that humanity has been trying to rebuild, they built new cities, established new trade routes, and done what they could in terms of ranching/hunting/foraging for food, but were held back to a small state by their lack of large amount of clean water.

That...... and the story was also one giant Jesus allegory.

Zenn3k said:
Vegas felt like what Fallout would be after 200 years. Remember, in FO1 its only been 84 years. Things should still have been in rough shape, its probably only been some 30 years or less since people started to really settle down and be able to even work the land at all. 200 years after the bombs, DC shouldn't still be this wild and untamed.
What funny is that, just 7 year prior to the start of New Vegas, 4 years before the start of Fallout 3 proper, with you escaping the Vault, the Mojave wasteland was even less developed then the C.W., everyone was tribals with no cities, no farms, no trade routes, nothing, until House and the NCR built everything for them.

Kinda funny really, even with fresh water.... the citizen of the Mojave were able to do less then the C.W. did.
 

Zenn3k

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SajuukKhar said:
Zenn3k said:
FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?
Every time someone asks this question I wonder if they understand how civilization works....

The single most fundamental necessity for any large scale civilization is clean water, this is a fundamental truth throughout history, without water, there can be no civilization.

And, this is the whole point of Fallout 3's main quest. The whole point of the game was that humanity has been trying to rebuild, they built new cities, established new trade routes, and done what they could in terms of ranching/hunting/foraging for food, but were held back to a small state by their lack of large amount of clean water.

That...... and the story was also one giant Jesus allegory.
Thats a fine point...in the context of the game, however, its been proven that the radioactivity in the water would have dissipated within 200 years (much less in fact), which means the entire "clean the water" plot itself is actually completely unnecessary.

So you have a flawed premise as the only validation for a flawed broken civilization that takes place in the far future...for no other reason then to be able reference things from the first 2 games, when really they should have tried to make the Capitol Wasteland its OWN thing instead of a bad re-hash of old things that don't actually make sense.

Basically, everything is solved by making the game take place closer to the time to bombs fell, the ENTIRE plot of FO3 falls to tiny pieces simply because its set 200 years after, which again only happens so they can tie parts of it to FO1 and 2.
 

SajuukKhar

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Zenn3k said:
Thats a fine point...in the context of the game, however, its been proven that the radioactivity in the water would have dissipated within 200 years (much less in fact), which means the entire "clean the water" plot itself is actually completely unnecessary.

So you have a flawed premise as the only validation for a flawed broken civilization that takes place in the far future...for no other reason then to be able reference things from the first 2 games, when really they should have tried to make the Capitol Wasteland its OWN thing instead of a bad re-hash of old things that don't actually make sense.

Basically, everything is solved by making the game take place closer to the time to bombs fell, the ENTIRE plot of FO3 falls to tiny pieces simply because its set 200 years after, which again only happens so they can tie parts of it to FO1 and 2.
Actually, its has only been proven that real world radiation would dissipate long before 200 years past.

Fallout radiation works quite differently, hence ghouls, and mutant animals.

The entire "BUT THE RADIATION WOULD BE GONE!" argument is based on the entirely flawed premise that Fallout radiation works the same as the real world, which it doesn't, and never has.
 

Dosbilliam

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Saviordd1 said:
Dosbilliam said:
Saviordd1 said:
And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?
Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well. :p
Just no.

I mean I'm glad you agree and all but no.

Spending time on the New Vegas forums of steam doesn't really put you in a position of authority.

And almost nothing in gaming is Objective (Except for like, stability). Some people could hate all the things new vegas does gameplay wise.
I don't recall saying I was in a "position of authority." Also, the quotes around "objective" should have told you I wasn't using the exact definition, instead opting for something along the lines of logical. Thanks for assuming you knew exactly what I meant, though. -_-
 

Right Hook

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Dosbilliam said:
Actually, the Enclave didn't arrive there (going by Fallout 3's lore) until after the events of Fallout 2, which would have given them about 160 years to rebuild. (2 starts in 2241, 3 starts in 2277)
Ugh, haha. You called me out on the part of my post I was unsure of, I even wondered to myself whether or not the Enclave had been there the whole time, I'd assumed yes but apparently am wrong. Thanks for clearing that up, it's been a while since I've played FO3.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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I feel the same. I played both games like 3 times cause I fucking love them but Fallout 3 will always be my favorite. New Vegas just had too much faffing about. So many "run here, give person X five Y's" quests all done within the city of New Vegas so only occasional skirmishes with weak enemies. The dlc doesn't have that but dlc isn't the whole game. Fallout 3 had much more worldly feel and the map had so many unique environments and it made the wasteland seem really spread out, not to mention the random encounters that kept things lively.

Anyway, that's mostly what I like in a game, exploration and good atmosphere. I get why people like Vegas better but interesting characters alone couldn't carry the main campaign for me
 

Mycroft Holmes

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It doesn't make sense in the Fallout timeline and lore though. F3 is a fine post apocalypse game, and if that's what they wanted to do that's what they should have done. But tacking it onto the Fallout label is ridiculous. The atmosphere makes no sense.

People who were annihilated by nuclear warheads don't build towns around them, they are afraid of them. And if they aren't then don't portray them like they are just normal people, portray them as the freaking lunatics they rightly are.

It makes sense that civilization would be putting itself back together. That's the atmosphere of a society 200 years past its collapse. People should be starting to form nations again. They shouldn't be dinking around with like 20 people in an entire town still scavenging cans from the local supermarket like that somehow makes sense.
 

SajuukKhar

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http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one.html
Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone
http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105885-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-two.html
Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ~ Chris Avellone
I love Chris so much. He knows how to keep Fallout fun and interesting.

Hopefully, Bethesda uses the opportunities presented in Lonesome Road to their fullest sometime in the future, even if it is a brief mention of the west getting nuked by someone who traveled east to find a better place or something.

That or they can use the tunneler invasion Ulysses hinted at to destroy the Mojave/NCR/Legion. Either way is good, as long as both burn.