Keep Calm and Feel Emotions

[Something Amyss]

Does anybody actually respect David Cage anymore?

I would seriously hope not.

Hack writing = the pinnacle of videogame storytelling.

But it is the pinnacle. Most of the shit that gets lauded in video games is B movie material. The "depth" of games tends to be shallower than the "depth" of naming your Jesus figure an anagram of "one" or naming things after stuff from the Bible.

David Cage may come off as pretentious, a hack trying to be some sort of seriously brilliant piece, but that also defines a good chunk of the "games as art" movement. And most of the time, we're closer to Hulkamania, brother.

But seriously, there's a lack of good writing in games. And that's fine (I mean, I don't really play games for deep EMOSHUNS), but in that absence, people take the best we have to offer and offer it up as quality. And most of it isn't.

You clearly are not sophisticated enough to appreciate the emotions Grey! The level of polygons in this title is unprecedented and this has led to the most vivid emotions in a video game ever!

It is not the film's game's fault you do not enjoy it, it is yours!

Grey lacks sufficient polygons. He is decidedly low-rez.

On that note, Jim Sterling meeting Erin Stout would be epic. And possibly lethal, but definitely epic.

So the game is written like shit. Don't really see what's so "hateable" about it.

But then again, I'm the kind of person that never hates anything in general entertainment.

People tend to dislike shit. People tend to use "hate" to describe dislike. Believe it or not, hate doesn't have to involve "Hello, My Name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die" levels of vitriol to be used. Some people throw it around like candy, yes, but so what? In any case, there's plenty of reason to dislike a game whose primary focus is on the narrative if the narrative is shit.

Or is it hate for Cage himself? Well, there's plenty to dislike about pretentious assholes. Now, I know, "pretentious" gets thrown around a lot, but the guy is a shit writer/stroyteller who is so far up his own ass regarding his artistic vision you would think he was Scorsese, Kurosawa, Ford and Jackson rolled into one amazingly shiny package. But since I've established that dislike=hate, that's not really puzzling either.

I think it might be one of those cases where it's hard to separate the artist from the art. David Cage generally acts like he's the savior of storytelling in games and usually sounds like he hates the medium.

Well, like he hates the fun parts. That's why he removes most of them.

So Jonathan, have you ever drawn something that's funny (adjective; providing fun; causing amusement or laughter; amusing; comical: a funny remark; a funny person)?

Given that he seems to amuse a lot of people, even with this comic, I'd say yes. I'd also say "that's a strange question."

I mean, it'd be one thing if you had phrased it without the definition, because one could infer you meant something more directly related to you. But you actually opened up a broader scope of amusement which clearly, visibly, and obviously exists.

 

[Grach]

So Jonathan, have you ever drawn something that's funny (adjective; providing fun; causing amusement or laughter; amusing; comical: a funny remark; a funny person)?

Yep, he has. Right here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/9819-Scorpion-Impressionist].

OT:

I'm watching the full let's play by the Two Best Friends of Beyond: Two Souls. By god, it's a complete mess storywise. Which is pretty much a crippling failure in this sort of "videogame".

 

[T'Generalissimo]

Fahrenheit was roughly one part brilliance to two parts nonsense

Wait, what are you using to measure that? I counted one part brilliance to ninety-nine parts nonsense.

 

[SlightlyEvil]

So the game is written like shit. Don't really see what's so "hateable" about it.

But then again, I'm the kind of person that never hates anything in general entertainment.

The problem is that the story is the main draw here. We're supposed to give the generally lackluster gameplay a pass because the story makes up for it. I'd be willing to accept that logic if only the story weren't, as established, shit.

 

[Kurt Cristal]

Little known fact, Quantic Dream DID production work for a film. An actual film. It was one of the first "digital backlot" films made, and it shows. This was back in 2004, the film is called "Immortal".


Yeah that's a pretty cool trailer! The movie is crap though. There so much nonsense you'd think David Cage had a hand in it himself. And if you decided you like the trailer and want to watch it.... I apologize in advance.

 

[2xDouble]

By all means, Cory and Grey, explain to us what it's really like to be a shut-in teenage girl with superpowers at a party full of (22-year-old) high school asshats you've never met before.

...while another bored teenager lazily narrates over it, damn half-assed let's play. Show them how it's done, Jesse Cox [http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SPFx-KViPXIkGplpvoMdsdF2b7qbf31XEH&feature=player_detailpage&v=q3WU_4jGXZ4#t=449].

 

[oldtaku]

Well that's because the PS3 just doesn't have enough horsepower. The PS4 may finally allow him to achieve emotional connection with the audience!

http://www.edge-online.com/review/the-stanley-parable-review/ :

The Stanley Parable is brave. It's brave because it offers the freedom to define the parameters of your experience. It's brave because it's willing to explore the ways in which games manipulate players, and to extrapolate that point into a discussion of the way we are all manipulated by the structures of real life. It?s brave because it's willing to make fun of itself. Are you interested in game design? Play it. Did you enjoy Portal's sense of humour? Play it. Are you David Cage? Please, please play it

 

[Ruisu]

I think it might be one of those cases where it's hard to separate the artist from the art. David Cage generally acts like he's the savior of storytelling in games and usually sounds like he hates the medium.

Might be. I'm not saying I like the game though. Most of the time playing I was like "well, that is kind of boring", and then gave it back to the person who lend me it.

So the game is written like shit. Don't really see what's so "hateable" about it.

But then again, I'm the kind of person that never hates anything in general entertainment.

People tend to dislike shit. People tend to use "hate" to describe dislike. Believe it or not, hate doesn't have to involve "Hello, My Name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die" levels of vitriol to be used. Some people throw it around like candy, yes, but so what? In any case, there's plenty of reason to dislike a game whose primary focus is on the narrative if the narrative is shit.

Or is it hate for Cage himself? Well, there's plenty to dislike about pretentious assholes. Now, I know, "pretentious" gets thrown around a lot, but the guy is a shit writer/stroyteller who is so far up his own ass regarding his artistic vision you would think he was Scorsese, Kurosawa, Ford and Jackson rolled into one amazingly shiny package. But since I've established that dislike=hate, that's not really puzzling either.

Dislike is not the same as hate though. If you dislike something you will state it after trying it out and then leave it to have something you like.
When you hate something you'll actively listen and pay attention to things related to it and keep bringing back the "topic" about it, as if it revolts you.
For example, I hate people who say videogames are almost solely responsible for violence. It personaly annoys me, because it can also get in my way as a gamer. Whenever an article disproves such claims I will seek them out and share with people I know.

I dislike milk without chocolate. So I always have chocolate with my milk.

See? I'm not talking about the word itself, but about the level of "dislike" of something.

The again, the reason I think Grey hates the game(or cage) with passion may be because I see him bringing up the subject quite a few times in his twitter.

The problem is that the story is the main draw here. We're supposed to give the generally lackluster gameplay a pass because the story makes up for it. I'd be willing to accept that logic if only the story weren't, as established, shit.

Yeah, I'm not saying the game is good, just saying I don't see it as a "hateable" game.

Little known fact, Quantic Dream DID production work for a film. An actual film. It was one of the first "digital backlot" films made, and it shows. This was back in 2004, the film is called "Immortal".


Yeah that's a pretty cool trailer! The movie is crap though. There so much nonsense you'd think David Cage had a hand in it himself. And if you decided you like the trailer and want to watch it.... I apologize in advance.

OH I remember this movie. Kind of.
I don't actually remember any of it's plot, but it looked really cool.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Other than the whole "young girl gets psychic powers" angle is Beyond Two Souls really that much like Carrie? I mean, I would think Chronicle was more like Carrie than Beyond Two Souls.

 

[oldtaku]

I'm really looking forward to what Cage can make for the PS4.

Whatever it is, it still won't have a fraction of the depth of something like Thomas Was Alone until he figures out that it's great writing and characters, not polygons, that lead to emotional connection.

Still, I'm really looking forward to it as well, though maybe not for the same reasons.

 

[Mister K]

And if ONLY someone persuaded him into making this story straight (i.e. without time jumps) it would have been a lot better.

I am watching a lets play of it, and one of the lets players (Woolie) said something about one particular scene ( I won't tell which) that stuck with me.
It was something like this (not direct quote): "See? This is what I am talking about! I FEEL emotions, but I have nothing to attach them to. I have no background for them, I don't know what led to this point. And that is why those feelings are lost."

Yeah, pretty much this.

 

[cricket chirps]

OKAY

Where is all this coming from?!
When Heavy Rain came out I heard mostly positive critic reviews and nothing but good will towards the game and fun times from my friends who had played it. I've watched two different full "lets plays" of Beyond from different people and both were entertaining and interesting to watch, there were no truly horrendous moments in either play through to make me think the game was as "career ruining" as a few people are making out to be lately.

Seriously, where is all this coming from?
Long in depth and preferably as impartial as possible explanations are welcomely invited to show me why this game, and apparently heavy rain, are suddenly being viewed as well...pieces of s#!* instead of rather different games that break out of the monotony we usually get.

 

[corronchilejano]

Other than the whole "young girl gets psychic powers" angle is Beyond Two Souls really that much like Carrie? I mean, I would think Chronicle was more like Carrie than Beyond Two Souls.

In the original carrie, she's having a good time and then is humiliated in front of her peers. She then locks them inside the ball room and proceeds to lash out at them, finally burning the place down (one of the ways the scene can end).

Here's the 1976 original version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOqBBf0Eqj8

There's no killing in this scene, but you have to admit it follows the same arc: Girls starts enjoying herself, is singled out, is then humiliated and proceeds to take revenge.

 

[PunkRex]

Those first two panels man, if those don't inspire some fan art I quit.

OT: Poor Cage, for a man so obsessed with emotions he has one of the blandest faces i've ever seen.

 

[The Wooster]

So the game is written like shit. Don't really see what's so "hateable" about it.

But then again, I'm the kind of person that never hates anything in general entertainment.

The writing is 90% of the game, and while I'm certainly not a great writer, Cage's utter disregard for the basics of the craft leaves me seething.

And if ONLY someone persuaded him into making this story straight (i.e. without time jumps) it would have been a lot better.

I am watching a lets play of it, and one of the lets players (Woolie) said something about one particular scene ( I won't tell which) that stuck with me.
It was something like this (not direct quote): "See? This is what I am talking about! I FEEL emotions, but I have nothing to attach them to. I have no background for them, I don't know what led to this point. And that is why those feelings are lost."

Yeah, pretty much this.

The game would be bad even if it had a linear narrative, but the time jumps push it into the terrible zone. At one point, you have to answer questions about Jodie's past, and the idea is that you can choose to cooperate or lie. The problem is, we haven't seen that part of Jodie's past yet, so we're essentially guessing. Very strange.

Fahrenheit was roughly one part brilliance to two parts nonsense

Wait, what are you using to measure that? I counted one part brilliance to ninety-nine parts nonsense.

The first third is fantastic. The second is okay. The third makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

OH I remember this movie. Kind of.
I don't actually remember any of it's plot, but it looked really cool.

Read the comic it's based on. It's a classic.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Just saw the video you linked, and yeah. That was a load of crap. Shame, because it could have been okay.

But, really? All the "mostly" nice kids just all go ape shit on her because her gift is a book?[sub]Not that that was the only dumb thing about it.[/sub]

Side note: if this kind of thing happens a lot with her, why in the hell did they let the party go on without a chaperone?

 

[Pyrian]

Hack writing = the pinnacle of videogame storytelling.

Well, comedies are the pinnacle of videogame storytelling. Other than, say, Portal, it's kind of a wasteland out there.

 

[Zenron]

This would have probably been more funny if I hadn't seen Grey make this joke on twitter the other day.

It was however, very... emotional.

But anyway, the writing of Quantic Dream games has never been their strong point. At times their games are really tense and exciting and for that I actually quite like them, but they have no idea how to structure a story or create complex characters.

Writing IS most of the game, but I can't help but find it incredibly engaging at times. I can't say I really know enough about game theory to tell you why though.

 

[Piorn]

I think Cage should work together with Raphael from the Stanley Parable Trailer, to make a game that is logical, but also has all emotions and freedom.