Ken Levine: The Future of Gaming Is In the PC

[BehattedWanderer]

Ok? Well done him, for having an opinion. Innovation comes in many forms, and the PC might be spearheading some innovation, it's had little of the mainstream innovation in the past few years. Both motion technology and 3D, the apparent current focus of the industry, are bypassing the computer. And while they may or may not be a fad or a trend period, they are innovation.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-games.html


At least put in some mild research before you start making claims. It's hardly a little known fact that Nvidia have been pushing their 3D tech. As for motion gaming, the majority of people I've seen on this site and those like it don't want it. Of course, you could always use your Wii mote with some PC games if you really wanted to anyway.

Fair enough, Nvidia is pushing 3D, I'll give you that. Is it innovative? Nope. Same array of high-priced glasses, a new monitor, new card, etc., as it almost always is, and almost always has been, ad nauseum. Putting out the equipment that many other companies are putting out for the purpose of keeping up with the market is fine, but it's not innovative. And while they might be mostly tediously over-designed play things, motion controls have led to innovation. New tracking technologies to develop almost 1:1 control, for instance. And while it's not something truly spectacular, it's something new, which is more or less exactly what innovation means. Computer gaming, while perfectly well developed and adequate, doesn't innovate. Size, resolution, sound quality might all change, but year after year the interface has been the same. Graphical enhancements of 2% over leading competitors sound wonderful, but that's just oneupsmanship, a practice that has been around as long society. Yes, the way they deliver the games might have changed, and good for them for doing that, but once the game is in hand, there's nothing new.

What we're talking about is innovation in the content of games themselves. Independent developers with new ideas. New gameplay concepts, deep stories. Those people have to start on the PC.

The only innovative thing that motion controls have done is introduce the major developers to the idea that they can develop shovelware, and they'll always find an audience regardless. That's moving backwards.

The content isn't under question. Innovation in the content varies wildly across all platforms, from the artsy style in an indie title, to the new way of making weapons have weight in a shooter, to giving your enemy a big purple hat in the RPGs. Looking at all the various styles, engines, themes, genres, and capabilities, there are innovative games on every platform. XBLA, WiiWare, and PSN all offer plenty of options and varieties to start out, building your line and reputation as a developer.

As for the shovelware issue, I'm still confused by how that's motion control's fault. Shovelware has always been around, and in its omnipresence, it has graced and mired every system. Of the few hundred games you've heard of/played in your time as a gamer, there are thousands of pieces of rubbish that aren't worth the price of the cartridge/disk.

 

[Dastardly]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Look into the employees themselves, mate.

Oh, and the fact that many of those early Nintendo, etc, games were ports from Apple II games.

 

[Wolfram23]

snip

What about the fact that consoles have 1)gamepad 2)motion controller 3)steer wheel device

While PCs also have joysticks, flight pedals and throttles, there's custom PC controllers such as one which has a gun for a handle so you move it to aim like a mouse, but it adds force feedback for FPS games, or how about the headset that senses your head movements and moves the in game camera along with it?

 

[MarsProbe]

Tedious flame war is tedious

Indeed. I mean really, do we have to be doing this again, now (or at any point in time for that matter)?

Oh, and Ken, can't you just go back to talking about your new game which isn't due out until 2012 and that will be released on consoles as well I assume. Much more interesting than this repetitive nonsense.

Expect a contradictory statement from another industry figure in the near future.

Backing out now before topic gets unpleasant/spirit-crushingly boring.

 

[Silver Patriot]

I kind of agree with this. Even todays consoles seem to be more and more like PCs. Eventually I believe that gaming will be done on PCs. The only real restriction comes from exclusives.

 

[Canid117]

Capcom, Square Enix

Capcom? Square Enix? Innovation?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thats a good joke.

 

[Aisaku]

Capcom, Square Enix

Capcom? Square Enix? Innovation?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thats a good joke.

More like a sad, sad joke :S... Both ceased being innovative around a console generation, at least.

 

[faceless chick]

i think this guy is 10 years too late.
pc gaming is dead. (except for small casual games and online flash-type gaming, but they don't count)

 

[Canid117]

Capcom, Square Enix

Capcom? Square Enix? Innovation?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thats a good joke.

More like a sad, sad joke :S... Both ceased being innovative around a console generation, at least.

Oh well what are you gonna do? Buy a game by a company that actually innovates like Bioware or Valve.

 

[Sartan0]

Capcom? Square Enix? Innovation?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thats a good joke.

It was a good one.

I don't think the PC market really shrunk, I think the console market just got bigger.

Got it in one. If anything it has grown just not as much as the consoles given Nintendo is getting everyone and their mother out there playing Wii bowling and such.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

snip

What about the fact that consoles have 1)gamepad 2)motion controller 3)steer wheel device

While PCs also have joysticks, flight pedals and throttles, there's custom PC controllers such as one which has a gun for a handle so you move it to aim like a mouse, but it adds force feedback for FPS games, or how about the headset that senses your head movements and moves the in game camera along with it?

I will say that that is fairly responsive in a way I haven't seen much of yet, but the fact that it's three years old and no one else has adopted anything like it is a bit depressing. That's what motion control should be, or could yet be, but I have a feeling that the public will again respond with some nonsense about "if I wanted feedback, I'd actually go buy a gun and shoot people". But, as for the other stuff, the little guns and wheels and pedals--those are accessories, optional little pieces of fluff to make what is already there adapted to a specific purpose. Fun, maybe, depending, but peripherals don't make the whole anew.

 

[Iscin]

I don't need to say much more than that I agree with Ken.

But as a quick message to any "hardcore console" folks: All your games are made on PCs and Macs. Good day -tips hat-

 

[GiantRedButton]

Ahahahahahahahaha... good stuff.

What about Nintendo, Capcom, Square Enix, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Insomniac, Atlus and Sega? Console developers first. But I guess they don't count because they don't fit into his argument.

This guy is talking out of his ass.

Nintendo: Arcade developer turned console developer.
Capcom: Arcade developer. Long tradition of computer game development.
Square: Initially a computer game developer but driven to consoles by lack of success.
Enix: Started out on personal computers. Most famous game was based on a game for Apple computers.
Sony Santa Monica: Pretty much a console dev.
Naughty Dog: First game was on a computer but mostly a console dev.
Rockstar North (GTA): As DMA design they were a pretty major computer game developer with titles like Lemmings. Console development came later.
Insomniac: Console dev.
Atlus: Mostly Console.
Sega: Arcade dev.

As a bonus, Metal Gear started out as a computer game series. As did Tetris. As did Bomberman. Rare started out making computer games.

Wow that blew my mind kinda. Thanks fo the info.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Spoiler: and the rest

Ok? Well done him, for having an opinion. Innovation comes in many forms, and the PC might be spearheading some innovation, it's had little of the mainstream innovation in the past few years. Both motion technology and 3D, the apparent current focus of the industry, are bypassing the computer. And while they may or may not be a fad or a trend period, they are innovation.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-3d-games.html


At least put in some mild research before you start making claims. It's hardly a little known fact that Nvidia have been pushing their 3D tech. As for motion gaming, the majority of people I've seen on this site and those like it don't want it. Of course, you could always use your Wii mote with some PC games if you really wanted to anyway.

Fair enough, Nvidia is pushing 3D, I'll give you that. Is it innovative? Nope. Same array of high-priced glasses, a new monitor, new card, etc., as it almost always is, and almost always has been, ad nauseum. Putting out the equipment that many other companies are putting out for the purpose of keeping up with the market is fine, but it's not innovative. And while they might be mostly tediously over-designed play things, motion controls have led to innovation. New tracking technologies to develop almost 1:1 control, for instance. And while it's not something truly spectacular, it's something new, which is more or less exactly what innovation means. Computer gaming, while perfectly well developed and adequate, doesn't innovate. Size, resolution, sound quality might all change, but year after year the interface has been the same. Graphical enhancements of 2% over leading competitors sound wonderful, but that's just oneupsmanship, a practice that has been around as long society. Yes, the way they deliver the games might have changed, and good for them for doing that, but once the game is in hand, there's nothing new.

What we're talking about is innovation in the content of games themselves. Independent developers with new ideas. New gameplay concepts, deep stories. Those people have to start on the PC.

The only innovative thing that motion controls have done is introduce the major developers to the idea that they can develop shovelware, and they'll always find an audience regardless. That's moving backwards.

The content isn't under question. Innovation in the content varies wildly across all platforms, from the artsy style in an indie title, to the new way of making weapons have weight in a shooter, to giving your enemy a big purple hat in the RPGs. Looking at all the various styles, engines, themes, genres, and capabilities, there are innovative games on every platform. XBLA, WiiWare, and PSN all offer plenty of options and varieties to start out, building your line and reputation as a developer.

As for the shovelware issue, I'm still confused by how that's motion control's fault. Shovelware has always been around, and in its omnipresence, it has graced and mired every system. Of the few hundred games you've heard of/played in your time as a gamer, there are thousands of pieces of rubbish that aren't worth the price of the cartridge/disk.

Shovelware has most certainly become far more rampant since the introduction of motion controls. You can't tell me with a straight face that the Gamecube, or any of Nintendo's consoles prior, have had more shovelware than the Wii. And I've owned all of Nintendo's consoles, so even if you can blatantly lie to me like that, I can call you on it.

Even worse than shovelware is the fact that motion controls encourage exploitation for profit. Take a look at Geometry Wars. A great game, no doubt. But ten dollars anywhere else, originally fifty dollars on the Wii. That's just ridiculous...and as far from innovative as it gets.

It's not just the Wii, though. Every console has it's share (and yes, the Wii has the most, but I will laugh myself blue when Kinect and Move try to topple that pile of cheap). Is there more than ever? There's certainly more opportunity for it, at least, between the ease of developing shite on the cheap, making clones of clones of clones, and bringing back old shite to try and fill the void. Sadly, actually, with the current generation being as electronic as they are, it's probably only the beginning of the shite piles that will happen when the next generation is born, with parents who grew up seeing a hundred games on every shelf targeted towards every age group.

Though, I do remember the PS2 (even for the titanic examples of gaming it still boasts) being the gateway for a whole swamp full of scum to find it's way to the market...

 

[Cocamaster]

You do realize that the mouse can already emulate a Wiimote, right?

No they can't, unless the mouse has suddenly acquired the ability to detect pitch, angle and force.

And at what point does a "fad" stop being a "fad"? One year? Two? Four? Or is it a sales threshold?

Is Pokémon STILL a fad? Is the DS? Heck, is dual video cards a "fad" or innovation? How about 3 cards? Or four?

When will some people understand that just CALLING something a fad over and over again will not turn it into one?

----------------------------

As for the original topic:

I don't know about you, but the argument of "game developers train on PC and therefore PC drives innovation" seems weak and not well thought through.

The main problem I have with Mr. Levine's argument is that he's grouping everyone who develops games based on the tools they use to do so. That, to me, is a fallacy. Consoles resemble PCs more than ever before, as do mobile phones and portables, but developing games for one isn?t necessarily analogous to another.

Someone who learns to develop console games on a PC isn't suddenly a PC game developer. There are many design decisions that are implicitly tied to your target platform, no matter what your tools are.

Then there's the audience. Does your game development philosophy better match the likes and dislikes of PC gamers or console gamers?

Innovation comes from many areas in game development. We have seen console design advancements seep to the PC and vice versa.

And then there's the sheer numbers. If game are the driving force of innovation in the industry, and you assume that 2 thirds of all console games are crap and somehow only 1 third of PC games are, there would still be more average to great games on consoles, so statistically speaking console games have a higher chance of influencing game design than PC games. This is an oversimplification, obviously, but it's done to drive a point.

Just think about it this way, the single most important innovation in gaming this generation was digital distribution. Talk about Steam all you want, but the one that brought it to the mainstream, and the model that everyone is following, comes from the iPhone. Let that sink in for a second.