Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Sylocat]

The article left out my favorite part [http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-and-misogyny-via-wikipedia/] of this whole miasma: The fact that it wasn't even confined to the cesspool that is YouTube.

This isn't just some random assholes being assholes. This is an intimidation campaign.

 

[socialistmath]

I don't think she either watched the movie and just the trailer or didn't pay attention as the movie I watched was very much about empowering women, it was hidden in subtext admittedly, underneath what she describes but that is the beauty of it, you have the masogynisits glaring at the short skirts and not seeing how they're being made fun of to their face.

The best response to this post would be Kate Beaton's wonderful Strong Female Characters [http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311] comic.

Kind of like why I enjoy South Park, as underneath the obvious is a very intelligent show, you just have to pay attention to get it - seemingly she didn't, which is a shame.

South Park. Intelligent. lol

 

[hentropy]

You know I was pretty interested in this, she made a convincing argument and sounded like she could back it up, so I click a related link down the right hand side with another of her videos:


And I am disappoint

I don't think she either watched the movie and just the trailer or didn't pay attention as the movie I watched was very much about empowering women, it was hidden in subtext admittedly, underneath what she describes but that is the beauty of it, you have the masogynisits glaring at the short skirts and not seeing how they're being made fun of to their face. Kind of like why I enjoy South Park, as underneath the obvious is a very intelligent show, you just have to pay attention to get it - seemingly she didn't, which is a shame.

Sucker Punch was a terrible movie on several layers, but I think it's pretty indicative of what a nerdy guy might think female empowerment looks like. Gorgeous women destroying giant robots with katanas and jetpacks is not female empowerment. In fact it just sort of looked like a videogame from the 90s that everyone seems to have a problem with in terms of feminism. "Lollipop Chainsaw" is not the feminist ideal, it's an immature attempt to draw in both boys and goth girls in high school. In fact, Sucker Punch manages to be sexist to both women AND men.

Here's an idea: how about we just make games where a female is the hero and we don't make a big deal out of that fact? The kind of custom, sprawling RPGs seem to be the only games where this is the case, but that's also sort of the point of those kinds of RPGs. Even a future game, The Last of Us, seems to be another "Grizzled Misunderstood Older Man Takes a Cute and Naive/Innocent Younger Girl on an Adventure Because She Would Probably Die Otherwise".

I don't know what this documentary will be exactly, but it is a conversation that we as older gamers have to have. There was a time when much fewer girls played games and as such they portrayed women in the way a child/teenager might idealize them. But as more women and younger girls get into games and more older gamers grow up and have children and wives/husbands of their own, it's a conversation we have to have. Like I said, I don't know if this documentary will be insightful or whether it's worth investment of time or money, but just pretending like it's not an issue isn't very helpful either.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Now honestly, would you trust her review or Moviebob's?

Feminist Frequency, in a heartbeat. FF actually has interesting content and Game Overthinker is practically TGWTG-level.

 

[twohundredpercent]

So youtube comments and Lolipop Chainsaw are setting women's rights back. Right....

All I know is, people love feeling outraged, discriminated against, and they really love whining about it on the internet. They'll use any excuse to do it.

 

[maninahat]

What the hell is "rape culture" anyway?

Google's your friend, but in short, rape culture is the theory that society desensitizes people towards the issue of rape. From the way people make rape jokes on stage, to the way people drop it in conversation ("I got ass raped in that last match"), to the way in which victims of rape will be blamed for dressing like they were "asking for it", the theory states that people have grown accustomed to treating rape as a banal, non-sensitive issue in day to day life.

I have my own doubts about the theory, but generally, I think society does have real problems in the way it approaches the subject of rape.

 

[Kahunaburger]

on why Moviebob is on the same level as Doug Walker's character "That guy with the glasses" to which I think you have confused with Doug walker's other character who actually talks about nostalgic movies "The Nostalgia Critic".

No, I mean that Moviebob's show looks like it belongs on TGWTG. I click on a link to one of his vids, and see a bearded man having an argument with clipart about some sort of meta-plot I could care less about.

Wait, you're linking this as an example of why I should not watch Feminist Frequency and instead watch Moviebob argue with clip art and wax nostalgic about Nintendo games?

 

[Kahunaburger]

You just described everyone I know personally who could be described as "feminist," and probably everyone you know personally who could be described as "feminist." If, on the other hand, you look on the internet for crazies, you'll find crazies. It's silly to pretend, however, that the crazies you find on the internet when you specifically look for crazies (or that you know about because, originally, a right-winger somewhere wanted a convenient strawman) somehow represent everyone who falls under a very broad umbrella term.

I also find little but crazies in magazines, lobby groups, news reports, studies...

Oh, okay, so isolated examples that you explicitly look for or get linked to by someone likely trying to strawman. Gotcha.

So where's the non-crazy ones?

Unless you're some kind of statistical anomaly or actively avoid all human contact, you know many feminists personally.

 

[hentropy]

You know I was pretty interested in this, she made a convincing argument and sounded like she could back it up, so I click a related link down the right hand side with another of her videos:


And I am disappoint

I don't think she either watched the movie and just the trailer or didn't pay attention as the movie I watched was very much about empowering women, it was hidden in subtext admittedly, underneath what she describes but that is the beauty of it, you have the masogynisits glaring at the short skirts and not seeing how they're being made fun of to their face. Kind of like why I enjoy South Park, as underneath the obvious is a very intelligent show, you just have to pay attention to get it - seemingly she didn't, which is a shame.

Sucker Punch was a terrible movie on several layers, but I think it's pretty indicative of what a nerdy guy might think female empowerment looks like. Gorgeous women destroying giant robots with katanas and jetpacks is not female empowerment. In fact it just sort of looked like a videogame from the 90s that everyone seems to have a problem with in terms of feminism. "Lollipop Chainsaw" is not the feminist ideal, it's an immature attempt to draw in both boys and goth girls in high school. In fact, Sucker Punch manages to be sexist to both women AND men.

Here's an idea: how about we just make games where a female is the hero and we don't make a big deal out of that fact? The kind of custom, sprawling RPGs seem to be the only games where this is the case, but that's also sort of the point of those kinds of RPGs. Even a future game, The Last of Us, seems to be another "Grizzled Misunderstood Older Man Takes a Cute and Naive/Innocent Younger Girl on an Adventure Because She Would Probably Die Otherwise".

I don't know what this documentary will be exactly, but it is a conversation that we as older gamers have to have. There was a time when much fewer girls played games and as such they portrayed women in the way a child/teenager might idealize them. But as more women and younger girls get into games and more older gamers grow up and have children and wives/husbands of their own, it's a conversation we have to have. Like I said, I don't know if this documentary will be insightful or whether it's worth investment of time or money, but just pretending like it's not an issue isn't very helpful either.

Her documentary is a discussion we had already. A discussion had dozens of times before, handled better, and with less baggage. The documentary will not be insightful, it will be a one sided restatement of facts already researched, and is by no means worth the tiny investment it would have failed to reach had it not gotten so much publicity, and by no means is it worth the cash it got. Now i have not paid the most attention to the last of us but i thought the girl was a minor. Also his daughter. Seems an odd take on sexualization.

You may have had the conversation, but not everyone has, and those who have often don't really understand the scope of it. Video games are more than just toys for boys now. It's largely replacing movies and TV as young people's visual entertainment of choice. Games have had a huge effect on me and I imagine many people here, and this was largely before games had the same level of immersion and depth as they do today.

One of the realities is that a girl can't be cool unless she shops at Hot Topic and accepts the objectification and sexualization. Because that's what all the "kick ass" girls in the games act/dress like.

You take The Last of Us, Ellie is not his daughter but it's not an issue of sexualization, but rather negative role reinforcement. She's reportedly "wise beyond her years" but still has to rely entirely on an older "big brother" type to protect her in a big mean world. She's not the only one, of course. These kinds of stereotypes are plastered all over all kinds of media.

We should move beyond it the same way Hollywood moved beyond blackface and other racist stereotypes and depictions.

This story is not about the value of her documentary, we don't actually know how good or insightful it might be, but it's up the individual to decide whether or not to invest in that message. The issue at hand is not just this one isolated case of a disgusting organized attack on one person, but rather how we can all take steps to promote mature and meaningful messages when it comes to gender and sexuality in games instead of saying "well these guys making threats and such are obviously bad but that doesn't mean criticism of her is still valid..." because really, it's much bigger than just that.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

The article left out my favorite part [http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/06/harassment-and-misogyny-via-wikipedia/] of this whole miasma: The fact that it wasn't even confined to the cesspool that is YouTube.

This isn't just some random assholes being assholes. This is an intimidation campaign.

Which makes me seriously wonder: who stands to gain anything from intimidating a vlogger and content producer? Why all the rage?

I'll roleplay for a second, and assume I'm insecure in my role as a male individual and view any nonconformist attitude from the fairer sex as being an attack on my identity. Even if I did, and even if that video project made Sarkeesian out to be a "fucking ovendodger" in my view of things - I'd have, what, billions of more conformist females for me to continue entertaining Betty Crocker-type fantasies on?

If what I want out of life is a square jaw, a squarer haircut, a three-piece suit and a doting wife in a floral print dress waiting for me at home with a Martini and a prepared pipe so I can kick back and read the newspaper like the aloof fucker that I am, I'll get plenty more occasions to satisfy that wish.

So, again, why the rage? Isn't it a colossal waste of time for everyone involve, including those women-hating assholes?

 

[Eamar]

snippity snip

You. I like you.

Likewise. Welcome to the Escapist, friend

 

[Eamar]

You just described everyone I know personally who could be described as "feminist," and probably everyone you know personally who could be described as "feminist." If, on the other hand, you look on the internet for crazies, you'll find crazies. It's silly to pretend, however, that the crazies you find on the internet when you specifically look for crazies (or that you know about because, originally, a right-winger somewhere wanted a convenient strawman) somehow represent everyone who falls under a very broad umbrella term.

I also find little but crazies in magazines, lobby groups, news reports, studies...

So where's the non-crazy ones?

Here's a hint: consider how gamers are represented in wider media. When we're shown on the news, in (non-gaming) magazines or TV shows or (non-games industry funded) studies we're fat, spotty, basement-dwelling virgins who live with our mothers. Or we're mass-murderers waiting to happen. Crazy psychos honing our shooting skills on CoD or Gears of War or Halo, waiting for the day when we will crack and shoot up our schools. Or we're hilariously socially awkward manchildren. We're "crazies", as you put it.These things are true of a tiny minority of people who play games.

Now apply that same logic to feminism (and pretty much any group you find unfavourably presented in mainstream media).