Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[PurePareidolia]

No its clear from the angle she's taking that she simply misses the point entirely, she is just implicitly insisting female characters have to fit a different mold that fits her personal prejudices. Its a different little ghetto where a character has to fit this or that because it has become little more than a propaganda tool. Furthermore her criticisms as i've already said show she doesn't understand gaming, gaming is about the game play mechanic, the character is just gloss over this. She misses the entire point to fixate on what she can apply her feminist dogma onto. In the end she is complaining just to complain.

Speaking of missing the point you're talking about game mechanics and dogma when they have nothing to do with anything (How can you have feminist "dogma" anyway? feminism is where women are treated the same as any other humans, nothing more). Why do gameplay mechanics matter in a discussion of games writing, specifically about characters? What difference is there to gameplay if Nathan Drake or Lara Croft pulls a lever? There's definitely a difference to the context and the writing though. Her "personal prejudice" is that female characters should be well realized and three dimensional. Which is fine. I'm not seeing a problem here.

Tropes are standard, you play the heros journey, not the journey of someone who ends up working at walmart at 65, or someone working the mines digging coal until you die. To complain about tropes from a feminist perspective is to just argue for the sake of it, because you have a chip on your shoulder.

I know what tropes are, She isn't complaining about the hero's journey trope though (a trope that doesn't have gender specific parts), she's complaining about tropes specific to women (making it OK to talk about from a feminist perspective) that she considers to perpetuate harmful stereotypes (which is fine, the thing about tropes is you can discuss their implications with examples from relevant media). Not all tropes are equal - some do concern women more than men - others concern other minorities, or inanimate objects or whatever. There is no problem with anything she's attempting here, it's just you freaking out over some weird prejudice where "feminism" is somehow an evil word and anyone using it is automatically wrong.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Because Bungie was well known for their sexism? Preaching to the choir sure is productive.

Actually, yes. Creating actual female character who are not just there to drive forward the story of the male counterpart is a thing where media is lacking (I say media, not only gaming). So yes, showing the developers the loopholes they fall into is productive.

They have to create female characters and create them in the certain way that you like? How sexist of you.

 

[Kahunaburger]

At most, people already interested in sexism see her videos and she is preaching to the choir. No one, and I mean no one who doesn't already care about her topics will go looking for them and have a revelation upon seeing them.

Well, you know, except for:

What does fight the source? education. This woman's videos are used in schools to highlight gender stereotypes. Personally I think that's pretty worthwhile.

And her video is going to change anything? Someone who is sexist is going to see it and stop? A game developer is going to see it and not keep wanting to print money?

See above Hollyday quote.

That $100,000 is going to be spent on her bills and entertainment. Recording software (which she already has) - free. Editing software (which she already has) - free. Research - free. Hosting a website - cents a day. She won't spend anywhere even close to $100,000 on her blog. It's all going straight into her pocket.

[citation needed]

 

[Hollyday]

They have to create female characters and create them in the certain way that you like? How sexist of you.

That's not really sexism now is it? What you're describing would be, I don't know, a feeling of entitlement? Being bossy? Anyway it's beside the point since that's clearly not what TheKasp is talking about. It wouldn't matter if a couple of female characters in a couple of games by a couple of developers were

just there to drive forward the story of the male counterpart

but that's not the case. It's the majority. When one section of society is portrayed in a certain, unbalanced way almost all of the time then that's a problem, surely?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

They have to create female characters and create them in the certain way that you like? How sexist of you.

That's not really sexism now is it? What you're describing would be, I don't know, a feeling of entitlement? Being bossy? Anyway it's beside the point since that's clearly not what TheKasp is talking about. It wouldn't matter if a couple of female characters in a couple of games by a couple of developers were

just there to drive forward the story of the male counterpart

but that's not the case. It's the majority. When one section of society is portrayed in a certain, unbalanced way almost all of the time then that's a problem, surely?

Oh. So the sex of people is important to you? That's funny. I thought we were fighting for people to be equal and for gender to be irrelevant.


A little less "We need more women!" A little more seeing characters as characters. Or, spend your time focusing on the gender of people. Whatever works for you.

 

[Hollyday]

Oh. So the sex of people is important to you? That's funny. I thought we were fighting for people to be equal and for gender to be irrelevant.


A little less "We need more women!" A little more seeing characters as characters. Or, spend your time focusing on the gender of people. Whatever works for you.

I can't argue with Morgan Freeman! Especially since I'm finding it hard to work out how that clip is relevant...

I don't think I said "we need more women", although I might say it now, because we kind of do. Women are 50% of the earth's population so I've heard. Reflecting that in the media would be a start.

I don't want to repeat myself, but representing a whole section of society in a cliched way is a BAD THING! I can't just view characters as characters, because the female characters don't engage me. I can't identify with them, because they are all the same tired stereotypes.

EDIT (I always think of what I actually want to say after I've posted): I wouldn't want to live in a genderless society. Men and women are different. They just are. What I want to live in is a society where men and women are represented in a true-to-life, balanced way. That isn't the case now.

 

[AuspexAO]

While I think these comments are vile, I'm not surprised in the least. Look at any random article about...well, ANYTHING on Yahoo and you will see comment sections pack full of hateful comments about women, minorities, and gays. It's by no means the majority of people and I think most gamers would find this behavior insulting and crude. I also know that most gamers love to see thought-provoking studies, films, etc. about women in games (anything to lend out hobby credibility, lol).

In other words...don't feed the trolls. Ignore their ridiculous comments and press on. They're not going away, especially not on the internet where the Gabe's "Greater Internet F-wad Theory" still reigns supreme.

 

[Grahav]

If she wanted discussions she could interview someone who makes those characters or is involved with game marketing or something.

It might surprise you how few of these people ever think about such things.

How do you want to fight the problem if you don't make an effort to understand the causes?

If you don't hear the marketers, the players who like those games (as myself), the other side, it becomes just a one sided speech where you tell a group of people to shut up. And nobody likes to be told to shut up, specially when it is said that they are the cause of misoginy or some other kind of evil.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Which reminds me I'm still waiting for you to prove that telling rape jokes to people who want to hear them does harm.

Because it perpetuates the rape culture. Because it perpetuates the harmful cultural attitudes that allow rape to happen so often and that make it difficult for rape victims to report their abuse. Because you don't fucking joke about rape.

Prove that they cause shifts in attitudes (and don't give me some study that only shows short term effects).

And people joke about all sorts of horrible things.

Genocide, 9/11, death etc.

Look up dark humor sometime

capcha: get over it

How appropriate

Nobody says that the victims of genocide are at fault for what happened to them, or that they should have done more to fight the genocide, or doubts that there was any such genocide that actually took place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_denial

Also I don't see why I should stop telling jokes just because other people (people I'm not telling the jokes too) believe stupid things.

I don't actually know any rape jokes that have victim blaming.

Those are denied by a handful of lone crazies who are ostracized by society.

Rape victims are challenged BY society.

Try again.

From what I've read of your "arguments" here, I most certainly know enough about you to judge that you are, in fact, supporting rape culture

Then you are shameless, without any form of decency, out of your mind, and not worth responding to. Go away and take your accusations of people supporting rape elsewhere.

But as it happens, thanks for proving feminists are indeed insane.

Awwww, I'm sowwy, did I huwt your pwecious fee-fees? The idea that your actions and words could be indirectly supporting a culture that trivializes rape sucks, doesn't it? You know what sucks more? Being on the other end of that culture.

You just keep digging your hole deeper, bucko. And btw, thanks for inserting "rape" where I say "rape culture" to twist my words into an argument you can more easily defend against with indignation. That's not underhanded at all.

I am telling you. I have fucking seen the consequences of my actions. As a guy who used to be as fucking willfully blind as you, I have seen rape culture for a fact. That you refuse to listen and consider becoming a better person is wholly on your shoulders, not mine.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Because Bungie was well known for their sexism? Preaching to the choir sure is productive.

Actually, yes. Creating actual female character who are not just there to drive forward the story of the male counterpart is a thing where media is lacking (I say media, not only gaming). So yes, showing the developers the loopholes they fall into is productive.

They have to create female characters and create them in the certain way that you like? How sexist of you.

Somebody doesn't know what sexist means!

 

[minuialear]

My projecting?
Let me guess, you're not even ten, no make that five years into your current relationship. Am I right?
If you are; then look at my previous post.

There doesn't exist a single relationship in the world, I will bet my life and every friend and family member I have on this, where something hasn't annoyed one of the two people, about the other. It's there. In every relationship. The question is how big an issue it is, and often you'll be blind to it because you're willing to see past flaws when you're in love.
And it goes both ways. Perfect relationships are just not possible, because we're all just wired that way. If you haven't realized this yet, then you might as well start accepting it and seeing past it, before it gets to you.

Every. Relationship. Call me negative, call me a misanthrope, it doesn't matter; It's how it is.

Every relationship has problems, but not every relationship has problems consisting of the woman demanding unequal amounts of time from the man. Again, what you said is:

The other ting is that any man who's had a girlfriend or wife, knows the feeling of them encroaching on your territory, your place of silence and focus. When girls like Anita make an accusing video like that, men take it personally, because it's another one of those annoying cries for attention(Not saying it is, I'm saying it LOOKS like it).

You clearly aren't making a generic point here about how relationships in general have their ups and downs; you're clearly saying that WOMEN in all relationships (with men, at least) are almost incapable of asking for a reasonable amount of attention. Which is only further proven by the fact that you state that men don't like this girl's video because she looks like she's doing that very thing (craving attention she doesn't deserve).

Which is problematic because not all women even do this (and if you truly think all women ask for too much attention, you're being sexist, plain and simple). Just like not all men are introverts who crave alone time and therefore face the same problems that you did in your relationships (and if you think all men are like this, you're also being sexist, plain and simple). Men and women who don't fit those categories may face other problems in their relationships, surely; but to genericise the problems that ALL men face at the hands of women based on your past relationships is ridiculous. Not all men have problems because their female partners want too much attention.

I don't know whether you're conflating the issue of having relationship problems in general (which you literally only just described) and having issues because some women want too much attention on purpose or not. Or whether you're going back on that part I took issue with, or whether you're using this post as an explanation of the former. I'm hoping this post is a retraction of the previous one, but in the event that you are conflating the two and you do see this post as clarification of the part I quoted: by implying that this is the main issue all relationships have, you're putting all the blame for relationship trouble on women, which is unfair and incredibly sexist. Just like if a woman were to claim that all relationship problems stem from men being too horny, it would also be an unfair generalization and incredibly sexist. Because not all women demand too much from their partners, and not all men are sex-obsessed animals. That is the point I've been making.

Do me a favor, don't bother replying.

Well I did anyway, so...

A) A white knight, unable to fathom that a woman can be as big a douchebag as a man

You still have yet to actually quote the part where I said women are incapable of being terrible people (which I did ask you to do with my last response). I stated that you can't claim that all women are terrible and require more attention than is fair, which is extremely different from saying that women are perfect.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Five things.

1. It's youtube commenters. They're 13-17 year old boys who have never touched a boob before. It's the same commenters who drastically hated the male shepherd sex scene from Mass Effect 3.

2. It looks like she got her project funded, so... Good.

3. She's completely right. Video games are overly sexist.

And two counters:

1. This isn't just a problem with games, its a problem with media in general. See also: Hollywood and any commercial on a major network dealing with: food, laundry, yogurt, beer, cars, and any kind of yardwork tool or garage tool.

2. Why does she need money for a video blog series? Not to agree with the third guy you quoted, but... What does that money go towards?

Good sir, I take offense to that, I have also met youtube commenters older than 13 years old.
I myself indulge in posting comments on youtube every once in a while and whilst I am male, I am not 13-17 nor do I take offense to homosexual Shephard.

Also, I don't know any good rape jokes.
NONE, so could someone please give me an example of what is considered a rape-joke?
Will trade for dead baby jokes.

On topic:
I fail to see what's so bad about this video, the video series or her wanting money.
The fact that she reached her goal, and more, shows us, that she has an audience willing to pay money for her work.
And hell, what's so bad about wanting money?
I want money, and I bet all of you on here want money as well. She found a way to make money, doing something many people apparently believe she should do, so who am I to tell her what she can and can't do? And if she wants to discuss women in video games, let her do that. It has been don before, many many times, but maybe she will provide some new insights.

 

[Zulnam]

To be fair, probably most of the users commenting on the project just saw the title "something vs. women" which, in itself, sounds misogynistic so they commented thinking they're the just ones. It's a classic "i'm commenting on this even though i have no idea what i'm talking about and thus have nothing of value to say" scenario.

I don't honestly understand the need for the project, but I'm guessing it's one of those "we r independent" things that people cling to all the time.

Seriously, has anyone here ever treated a woman badly based on the fact that women are cliches in video games?

Hell, men are cliches in video games too. Where's the kickstarter representing my manly independence?

 

[greatorder]

gotta say, the insult 'ovendodger' is new to me...

 

[AudienceOfOne1]

I dunno about this project really. On paper I think that it is mostly pointless - I can't see it changing a god damn thing.

OR AT LEAST THAT WAS UNTIL ALL THE ABUSE CAME ROLLING IN...

If everyone, acted like decent human beings and let the project raise the target of 6K. Then create the videos for a niche audience to be view and be intrigued by them. And nothing would change.

However, for some reason an unfortunately large vocal group of 'gaming males' have decided to be voice they're opinion of how pointless the video is by making vile, disgusting, pathetic remarks about her based purely on her gender.

I am myself a male gamer and before this issue, didn't really care for gender equality on games (I play only with friends and don't insult other players, period.

BUT this vocal group of assholes makes me ashamed to be a part of the gaming community and in no way does the video warrant this hate.

So ironically the haters have highlighted this issue for me, much more than the videos themselves would have. CONGRATULATIONS, job done.

[/rant] and sorry for the bad grammar

 

[Hollyday]

The MAIN issue, however, is that it is impossible to create a good female character for a few reasons:
1. The things that define a woman are either considered sexist or have no possible application in gaming
2. A good female character is often ignored by the feminists because she's not "female" enough.
3. Look at # 2, then #1, and you'll see this closes out any possibility of females being happy with women in games.

Um... seriously? Please can you enlighten me on what 'defines a woman'.

Do you have some examples of your second point?

I've seen numerous complaints about bad female characters, but ZERO tips on making good ones. It appears the videos by this lazy scammer female gamer will be no different; she'll destroy every female character seen thus far, and offer ZERO tips on making a good one.

Anita Sarkeesian says in her video that she's also going to be pointing out positive female characters in games to show how it should be done. I'll reserve judgement on the content of her videos until I've actually SEEN her videos. I think that's just common sense.

Personally, I've just finished playing Beyond Good and Evil and I thought the female protagonist was excellent.