Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Mikeyfell]

I'm not going to say she "Deserves" all the hate, but she is kinda stupid.
If her videos demonstrate one thing it's that she doesn't pay attention.
She's like the Fox News of Youtube, And that's saying something.
(Yes I only watched her vids because they're hilariously bad)
After a while you get the impression that she doesn't think women are capable of being individuals. by some of her videos trying to convince people that the notion of "romance" is inherently sexist in and of it's self.

Or her thrashing of strong female characters just...because?
Usually accomplishing the character assassination by taking things out of context or making things up.

It's pretty bad, but I think her videos should be flagged as "Bullshit" instead of "terrorism"

 

[Hollyday]

for a man to vote in the US he is required to be willing to give his life for his country by signing up to the draft. if he dose not he gives up a number of rights that women get by default, for instance if you don't register you'll find it very difficult to vote aswell. not to mention your not seen as a real man if you don't go when your called up.

Not being from the US I don't really understand this - could you explain it a bit more? I agree with you that men face plenty of sexism themselves, especially this idea of a 'real man' being a strong protector etc. This is definitely something you (and we all) should be fighting against.

not to mention men dont get any real choice in what to do in life. its either work full time or called a loser or not a real man. women however can work, they can be a stay at home parent, they can even just be a house wife without kids and no-one has a go at them.

I don't think this is true. Once women get to a certain age the pressure to settle down and have kids is pretty overwhelming, even in countries like the UK. Here in Italy it's ridiculous - some of my friends are in their early 30s, and those who aren't married yet are considered to be spoiled goods (actual words she got called). The same thing is true of single women who have a lot of sex - they're seen as disgusting, unladylike and all sorts of awful words and are completely dehumanised. Men who sleep around? Lady's man, likes to have a good time, cheeky chappy, bit of a charmer. Career women also face some pretty severe discrimination both in the workplace and in society in general. You only have to look at the small number of women who reach positions of power in top companies. It's not because of intelligence/skill/ability - education and workplace statistics prove that. Some of it is down to leaving work to have children. But all of it? Not a chance. I lived in Finland for a bit and they seem really progressive when it comes to gender equality. Women seem to have more high-powered jobs and the split of stay at home mums/dads is almost 50/50. Hopefully it's the way all countries are slowly moving.


I would never deny that men have problems dealing with stereotypes. I have enough male friends who went off the rails in their teens/early 20s because they just had no direction and couldn't deal with the pressure of being out in the world and being expected to just cope. In the same way that it makes you angry when men's problems in society are ignored, I get angry when women's are. You only have to read back through this thread to see the comments of 'women's equality is a non-issue', 'women are already equal', 'what's the problem', 'what are they moaning about'. I see inequality through the media and through society's expectations of me and other women every day. Not because I'm looking for it, or over-analysing, but because it's there, I feel it. I'm not a man, so I can't comment on the severity of it for you, but I assume it's fairly similar. We're working on it on this side. Men should be doing the same from theirs.

and not to mention people like this: http://thefemitheist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/allow-me-to-introduce-myself.html who think that men are inherently evil and should all be castrated.

Ha! what a nutter. Women eh? we're all crazy b******... I can say with total certainty that I have never met anyone so crazy that they think mass castration is the way forward. Similarly, there are some men out there in the world who think that female circumcision is the best way to make sure their wives stay faithful to them. Sadly, some of them have had the ability to carry out their genuinely horrific ideas: http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/female_genital_mutilation.shtml

oh and by the way if your definition of sexism is someone looking sexy even if they can beat up any man they want and can hit a target at 500 yards and still have a deep character arch. then i don't really think you have much to worry about given the fact that male chars get the same treatment, like how all the male armour and uniforms in ME all have the abs very well defined and all the men are seen as masculine gods. not to mention how Jacob Taylor had an entire video clip in the shadow broker lair of him doing sit ups without a shirt. and like Jim Sterling said "if you think male chars aren't sexualised, then type devil may cry into deviant art and tell me im wrong"

Oh good god, I just looked it up. My eyes....THEY'RE BURNING! Why would you tell me to do that, Jim Sterling? WHY!?

That isn't my definition of sexism. My definition of sexism would be when they don't have a deep character arc, and it's often the case that they don't. I find that I usually prefer the male characters in games, which confuses me a little since I almost always find it easier to identify with the female characters in books for example. I think there are just many more interesting male characters written than interesting female ones. You may disagree with me, but it's just my opinion. I'd really like to see more unconventional female characters in games in the future. If they happen to be sexy as well that's not a problem.

To talk about Mass effect again for a moment, I do find the portrayal of the male and female characters really interesting. For example, Dr. Chakwas is one of the only older female characters I've seen in a game who isn't someone's mum. Or a witch. It's pretty refreshing (shame she's not playable). Likewise Urdnot Bakara. Out of the playable characters though, as much as I like pretty much all of them, there is a little bit of sexism going on. All the playable females are attractive, and almost all can be romanced at some point (I think Kasumi is the only exception, but she's still sexy, and EDI and joker getting together counts her in), whilst some of the men are old/just plain strange and are definitely not trying to be attractive (Zaeed, Grunt, Mordin, does Legion count? I should probably include Wrex but god dammit I love that Krogan). It's not wrong but it is... interesting.

 

[minuialear]

but putting pressure on men to create female characters to women's standards creates even more of a divide than women creating something for them selves.

The thing is, "to women's standards" is a loaded concept. It assumes that women as a whole have an idealized concept of what every female character should be like, which is false. There will always be a vocal minority who claim the only good woman character is one that has the typically-cited laundry list of conflicting ideals (sexy but not too sexy; aggressive but not too aggressive; etc), but for the most part, women just want characters who don't exist to be sexualized in their games.

Joss Whedon's female characters, for example, tend to be of a wide variety of personalities, degrees of sexiness, etc. Many of them aren't leader characters (see: Firefly (River, Kaylee, Inara), Dollhouse (Sierra)). What makes them "to women's standards" is simply the fact that they serve some kind of purpose in the show that's more essential than "I'm here to be pretty." Kaylee's an airhead, but also is brilliant at other things and serves a purpose other than simply being the innocent cute girl character in the show. Inara is almost a prostitute and has a lot of sex scenes in the show, but because she has a well-rounded personality and because she's not there just to have sex with people or look sexy, she's well-received. It's not really rocket science to make characters that appeal to people in demographics other than your own, and if people keep assuming it is, then that's at least half of where their problems lie.

Is not the point of feminism equal rights? Where women have an equal right to create female characters as they see fit just like men do. Not to use it as a sword which to point at men and force a woman's ideals into their creative process.

Yes...at the same time, the burden of making diverse characters shouldn't just lie on developers of those demographics. The way I see it, developers of all creeds ought to be striving to make games as diverse as the population that plays them, and when people start assuming that it's female developers' jobs to make good women characters, the result is inevitably that because these women are at work making women look good, male developers don't need to work equally hard to do so. The same could be seen with black people and BET; people saw all these black people trying to make themselves more prominent on TV by making sure they gave black people lead roles, etc, and for a long time (and to some extent, to this day) people made the argument that black people have plenty of lead roles, just look at BET, we don't need to put them in better roles elsewhere, etc.

Yes, the minority has a responsibility to take its own destiny in its hands and try to gain prominence in media; no, they should not be the only ones trying to do so.

On the examples of men writing female characters...well saying that someone else "could" and did do something is not a reason why everyone else in the field "should have to" do something.

The argument isn't that male writers "should have to" put good female characters in their games (though, really, they should); it's that claiming that they have an excuse not to because they aren't women is bogus. Unless the male writers are planning to have a game that goes into the complex psychology of childbirth or something similar, your character just has to act like a normal human being. Any good writer ought to understand normal human beings well enough to pull that off, and I offered just a few examples of authors who have proven this to be true.

But even if the male writer DOES want to get into the psychology of childbirth, there's an easy way to do so; it's called "research." Book authors do this all the time (as do a fair number of television, theater, etc writers) in order to enhance their characters and their product as a whole; I don't see why we can't also hold video game writers to that kind of standard in general (not just for female characters). The concept that video games writers as a whole are allowed to be terrible writers just because is wearing thin on me, honestly.

Also no, a man "cant" know how women idealize themselves because they are not a woman they can only try and understand, most of the time its not a sexist view of women from creators but a misunderstood one. Some women in society do empower themselves using large breasts, skimpy clothing and sex appeal.

Like I keep saying, the problem isn't whether women have large breasts or skimpy clothing, it's why. Some women do empower themselves by dressing like sluts, but they do it for a purpose that generally doesn't amount to "I want to be eye candy for everyone in the world and nothing more." Please try to understand this; the problem with sexualized women is not just that they are sexualized; it's that they are sexualized in a manner that takes power and control away from them and gives it to a (presumed) male player.

Catwoman pre-reboot was sexualized but largely loved because she was in control of this sexuality and used it for her own purposes, which were not purely to woo a man, were not the result of being subservient to anyone, etc; Catwoman post-reboot is sexualized and criticized because it's obvious that a lot of it is now pure fanservice and is not the result of her choosing to use her sexuality to some larger end.

I think many people know there is a problem with the way women are portrayed in video games or at least that many women are not happy with it but publishers look mainly at the bottom line and without support and a group telling them why they support a game with a proper female character/s they will assume that it just did well and not care either way but if they felt a game sold more because of support from women they might actually look at the issue as a selling point and find a way to tap into that market.

Women already do this; for every negative blog post about females in games, there's at least one blog post praising the few examples of positive female characters. The problem is that there are a lot more of the former than the latter, and the proportion of new characters skews to the former more than the latter. At some point it needs to be realized that repeating over and over again that Alyx Vance was an awesome character isn't generating half as much publicity and attention as complaining about the treatment of the newest Lara Croft. And when that happens, people have to use the tools given to them.

 

[Trekkie]

for a man to vote in the US he is required to be willing to give his life for his country by signing up to the draft. if he dose not he gives up a number of rights that women get by default, for instance if you don't register you'll find it very difficult to vote aswell. not to mention your not seen as a real man if you don't go when your called up.

Not being from the US I don't really understand this - could you explain it a bit more? I agree with you that men face plenty of sexism themselves, especially this idea of a 'real man' being a strong protector etc. This is definitely something you (and we all) should be fighting against.

not to mention men dont get any real choice in what to do in life. its either work full time or called a loser or not a real man. women however can work, they can be a stay at home parent, they can even just be a house wife without kids and no-one has a go at them.

I don't think this is true. Once women get to a certain age the pressure to settle down and have kids is pretty overwhelming, even in countries like the UK. Here in Italy it's ridiculous - some of my friends are in their early 30s, and those who aren't married yet are considered to be spoiled goods (actual words she got called). The same thing is true of single women who have a lot of sex - they're seen as disgusting, unladylike and all sorts of awful words and are completely dehumanised. Men who sleep around? Lady's man, likes to have a good time, cheeky chappy, bit of a charmer. Career women also face some pretty severe discrimination both in the workplace and in society in general. You only have to look at the small number of women who reach positions of power in top companies. It's not because of intelligence/skill/ability - education and workplace statistics prove that. Some of it is down to leaving work to have children. But all of it? Not a chance. I lived in Finland for a bit and they seem really progressive when it comes to gender equality. Women seem to have more high-powered jobs and the split of stay at home mums/dads is almost 50/50. Hopefully it's the way all countries are slowly moving.


I would never deny that men have problems dealing with stereotypes. I have enough male friends who went off the rails in their teens/early 20s because they just had no direction and couldn't deal with the pressure of being out in the world and being expected to just cope. In the same way that it makes you angry when men's problems in society are ignored, I get angry when women's are. You only have to read back through this thread to see the comments of 'women's equality is a non-issue', 'women are already equal', 'what's the problem', 'what are they moaning about'. I see inequality through the media and through society's expectations of me and other women every day. Not because I'm looking for it, or over-analysing, but because it's there, I feel it. I'm not a man, so I can't comment on the severity of it for you, but I assume it's fairly similar. We're working on it on this side. Men should be doing the same from theirs.

and not to mention people like this: http://thefemitheist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/allow-me-to-introduce-myself.html who think that men are inherently evil and should all be castrated.

Ha! what a nutter. Women eh? we're all crazy b******... I can say with total certainty that I have never met anyone so crazy that they think mass castration is the way forward. Similarly, there are some men out there in the world who think that female circumcision is the best way to make sure their wives stay faithful to them. Sadly, some of them have had the ability to carry out their genuinely horrific ideas: http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/female_genital_mutilation.shtml

oh and by the way if your definition of sexism is someone looking sexy even if they can beat up any man they want and can hit a target at 500 yards and still have a deep character arch. then i don't really think you have much to worry about given the fact that male chars get the same treatment, like how all the male armour and uniforms in ME all have the abs very well defined and all the men are seen as masculine gods. not to mention how Jacob Taylor had an entire video clip in the shadow broker lair of him doing sit ups without a shirt. and like Jim Sterling said "if you think male chars aren't sexualised, then type devil may cry into deviant art and tell me im wrong"

Oh good god, I just looked it up. My eyes....THEY'RE BURNING! Why would you tell me to do that, Jim Sterling? WHY!?

That isn't my definition of sexism. My definition of sexism would be when they don't have a deep character arc, and it's often the case that they don't. I find that I usually prefer the male characters in games, which confuses me a little since I almost always find it easier to identify with the female characters in books for example. I think there are just many more interesting male characters written than interesting female ones. You may disagree with me, but it's just my opinion. I'd really like to see more unconventional female characters in games in the future. If they happen to be sexy as well that's not a problem.

To talk about Mass effect again for a moment, I do find the portrayal of the male and female characters really interesting. For example, Dr. Chakwas is one of the only older female characters I've seen in a game who isn't someone's mum. Or a witch. It's pretty refreshing (shame she's not playable). Likewise Urdnot Bakara. Out of the playable characters though, as much as I like pretty much all of them, there is a little bit of sexism going on. All the playable females are attractive, and almost all can be romanced at some point (I think Kasumi is the only exception, but she's still sexy, and EDI and joker getting together counts her in), whilst some of the men are old/just plain strange and are definitely not trying to be attractive (Zaeed, Grunt, Mordin, does Legion count? I should probably include Wrex but god dammit I love that Krogan). It's not wrong but it is... interesting.

To be honest I don't live in the US however i have a lot of friends a relatives for whom I stay in regular touch with. During the 2008 election on of my cousins told me he wasn't to sure about voting and when i asked why he said because in order to vote he would have to register for the draft and that he didn't want to fight in a war unless he agreed with it, he even showed me the form he had to sighn in order to be able to vote :/ , his sister however did not have to register for the draft.

beyond that there are a few points i want to make. the pressure for married thing is something that men over the age of 30 have to deal with aswell. there seems to be this assertion that if your a man over 30 and who isn't married then your wasting you life and you're taking away the happiness and dreams of a woman somewhere in the world.... and im actually not joking there one of my drinking buddies was told that if he didn't marry then he was taking away the happiness of someone ells.

the stud v slut argument isn't what it appears to be honest, there only seems to be one side being told. I work in the construction industry and as such i work with a lot of men. and let me tell you a man is only a stud if he sleeps with attractive women, same with women who get very attractive men or women who get young men and are called cougars, a term used from what iv seen as a glorification whilst a man who sleeps with young women is a called a creep.

however if a man "slings it about" (sorry for that image) and sleeps with any woman he can then amongst men he is seen as a walking STD and who is being irresponsible and who is undesirable. Seriously I have actually seen men refuse to use the same bathroom stall with a man who dose this in case they get herpes or something. and have seen men clean anything his bare arse touches with bleach, like a portable toilet. and if you think im exaggerating, im really not. Ask guys this they will confirm.

with the high up jobs, id like to point out that unless you built an empire like Facebook at a young age then your only going to get up into a high position when your in your late 40's through 70's. note how all the us presidential candidates look like there should be a nurse with them at all times and this is where the two genders come in, like you said having a family is a big part of it and women have a closer bond with their children from birth than men do meaning that women will want to stay with their child more than men do. there is also the fact that women do take different choices than do when it comes to career. like i said earlier, men are always under pressure to climb that ladder and to make more money all the way up until they reach the grave. The British government are actually thinking of raising the mens retirement age from 65 to 70 and leaving women's at 60 and this is while the average age of death for men is 76 so they would only have 6 years of retirement whilst women live to 81 and would get 21 years of retirement meaning that men will have to pay into the system for ten years after women stop in order to get a pension. in the 2009 consad report forwarded by the US department of labour:

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Data shows that men choose to take on more stressful, time consuming and demanding jobs whilst women choose more flexaball jobs that give more free time and better work hours. For instance about week ago on the BBC they was reporting that the Royal Navey enlisted their first female captain and how this was "another barrier broken" but stuck out to me was the fact that she was 40 and in a job like that of the Navy the stress is at boiling point, the hours are awful, you risk your life the conditions are.... well.... shit and your away from home all the time. Another example is our own Games industry. I used to listen to a podcast called world one stage one, where one of the hosts worked for lionhead, and apparently he had to sleep under his desk a lot of nights because the hours where soo harsh from the tight deadlines. These are factors that turn people away from that job, especially women who as the data shows, don't want that kind of job that requires a commitment that heavy that they cant have a life outside of it which just about all high up positions have, i mean have you seen how much obama has aged in the past 4 years, the high up jobs are misery and frankly unless your pushed to do it to the extend in which unless you shoot that you are not worthy then people aren't going to do it.

At the moment there is a phenomenon in Japan which the media call the grass eating boys or peter pan boys because they're not interested in working that ladder and working till they die. Because of it japans economy is getting worse, the birth rate is starting to falter because women aren't interested in grass eaters and so it has made the media and Japanese govt put out press releases saying that men need to man up!

(I know it is long, bare with me)

you brought up genital mutilation which is a particular gripe of mine because there isa form of genital mutilation that is practised on boys legally and in the us 80 - 9- percent of bys have had it done, its called circumcision. it holds NO medical benefits, removes 6 square inches of skin when stretched out, cuts off over 240 nerves and actually makes sex less pleasurable for men and here is the thing, they do this when men are babies so not only do they not have a choice in the matter they don't use antistatic because allot of places still believe it painless.

now i must warn you this is very hard to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9C6T9QoLTM&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLDA120404B38CCDF1

but tell me is that baby not in pain? and all a circumcision dose is inhibit male sexual sensation. so why is Female GM illegal in most countries and Male GM (and i will call it genital mutilation because that's what it is, you are cutting off a piece of the mas penis that by the way is fused to his glands at birth by default) why is that legal everywhere?

regarding the "quit whining" comments, i see where your coming from and i understand as this is something that men face a hell of a lot, Serena Williams (the tennis player) called men who complain whiners and to stay on topic our own Jim sterling has taking a swing at it to:

http://www.gamefront.com/misandry-in-videogames-oh-grow-the-f-k-up/

apparently he think men who complain about misandry in games are just cry babies who need to grow up. see a parallel? and this is a games journalist.....

quick note about the choosing the opposite sex as a char. yeah i do that to, not really sure why..... Skyrim... female.... fallout..... female..... saints row.... female..... ME.... Female.... not sure why

the issue of Kasumi and zaheed I think has more to do with them being DLC so they didnt put in too much content for some reason. the same can be said for older men when it comes to games aswell, they don't do the same as with older females but they still tend to take a back seat, like how navigator Presley had nothing to do in the game what so ever except point out the damn obvious. same thing with the chef in ME 2 and with other games they tend to be some wizard, or wise man.... you get the idea.

and iv said before about how men and women are attracted to different things. whilst men are attracted to boobs etc, women are attracted by the ability to protect, see Garus and those strong turian arms Wrex and grunt however i see that as a lore thing being as krogan tend to want to have krogan babies because of the genophage, chars like thane seem to have that strong silent type appeal that some women like, joker has the wit, banter etc. and the pity card. james.... muscles.... you get the idea. it is there its all there just in different ways.

i think that is about it, sorry if I missed anything it took me about an hour to write this.... no seriously...

EDIT: oh and sorry if my grammar sucks. i kept having to go back and edit to include things i forgot so it may be patchy :/

 

[Kraj]

I really would like to say something constructive...
I'm too busy being stunned that she actually got 43000 dollars for THAT. >_>
I'm not sure whether to laugh, cheer, or cry.

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

 

[Trekkie]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that that was my point? not that "we shouldnt investigate rape" that's just a retarded thing to say frankly. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

 

[Trekkie]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

oh yeah its not like someone's life is being ruined by that false accusation. if you get falsely accused.... well sucks to be you, be a man a deal with it.

and yeah prosecutors are dicks, they follow the money, there's a reason they're call vampires. everyone knows this.

and again, it was a reply to a long chain of posts in which i gave a counter argument that just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty. people can lie and there needs to be a fair investigation into it, not to just say, well she said you did it, why would she lie?

and also offering a counter argument about the justice system screwing over men doesn't make me a misogynist, neither dose calling women out who make falls claims of rape and DV. but then again im a man, how dare i have an opinion on gender politics, guess i should just go get at the back of the line where i belong.

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

oh yeah its not like someone's life is being ruined by that false accusation. if you get falsely accused.... well sucks to be you, be a man a deal with it.

and yeah prosecutors are dicks, they follow the money, there's a reason they're call vampires. everyone knows this.

and again, it was a reply to a long chain of posts in which i gave a counter argument that just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty. people can lie and there needs to be a fair investigation into it, not to just say, well she said you did it, why would she lie?

and also offering a counter argument about the justice system screwing over men doesn't make me a misogynist, neither dose calling women out who make falls claims of rape and DV. but then again im a man, how dare i have an opinion on gender politics, guess i should just go get at the back of the line where i belong.

The justice system screws over everybody mate.

"just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty."

THIS IS TRUE OF ANY CRIME.

You're the one focusing on female accusations of rape. That makes you misogynist. AND you have the gumption to make a big deal about it on a forum news-post calling out for less gamer misogny. Nice work.

 

[ACman]

blah

The calibre of her journalism is irrelevant. The issue here is sexism in the gamer community.

And I take issue with Trekkie's alarming lack of self awareness in his slightly disturbing obsession with false rape accusations during a discussion about sexist attacks in any forum youtube or otherwise.

I don't have to break bread with him. His words damn him irrevocably.

And your lack of self awareness is also alarming, YOU may be a paragon of masculine virtue, but the gaming community does harbour an element of sexist, homophobic, jerks and trolls. It's worth discussing regardless of what you think of the lady journalist in question.

 

[ACman]

blah

The calibre of her journalism is irrelevant. The issue here is sexism in the gamer community.

And I take issue with Trekkie's alarming lack of self awareness in his slightly disturbing obsession with false rape accusations during a discussion about sexist attacks in any forum youtube or otherwise.

I don't have to break bread with him. His words damn him irrevocably.

And your lack of self awareness is also alarming, YOU may be a paragon of masculine virtue, but the gaming community does harbour an element of sexist, homophobic, jerks and trolls. It's worth discussing regardless of what you think of the lady journalist in question.

I'm sorry but I notice you didn't actually take any of the time to actually answer my questions in my post.

Also also are willing to damn me with your assumption of my "lack of self awareness" so instead of actually discussing the subject and the points of my post you almost slander myself.

Also no one is a paragon of virtue as our culture in both society and physical location radically changes. What was once accepted today was banned years ago and what was once accepted in the past is banned today. You won't see the same rights for women going from the USA to the middle east nor will you see the same sexual inhibition you see in the USA compared to the liberty in Japan. It will always be relative and ever changing.

Also I've grown up with the video game industry since the 1980's and have even reached out to what we consider the heart of the video game industry, Japan. This includes for better and for worse. Trust me, most of the problem you think exists is only a problem because you think it exists.

Now there are problems in the video game industry but honestly if you actually sit down and do the research you will find the problems aren't centered on gender at all but more on cold hard business practices that have become the "norm". While many people aspire to actually become part of the video game industry very few people actually get to enter and of those who get a career in the video game industry their lifespan is basically a ticking timebomb. The average of a person who gets to enter the video game industry only lasts FIVE years. That is regardless of gender, that is incredibly short and that doesn't even go into detail on the backbreaking labor divisions of the video game industry have to go through like Quality Assurance.

There are problems with simply attracting women to actually even think or become trained to participate in the video game industry. Is it really sexist when the majority of computer science and information technology students are male? Given the fact that most people have their free will it is certainly their choice of the man and the choice of the woman to pursue the major they so desire(hopefully neither person is pressured into a major they don't want to be in). How would it exactly be fair to those millions of people who want to become involved with the video game industry to simply be excluded by people who don't want to really be there in the first place or worse just care about the money and not the product. Even this problem has more to do with actually getting people the qualifications and portfolio needed proving to developers and publishers that candidates that apply are well qualified and worth the investment.

These are the actual problems of the video game industry. Not the criticism of literary devices damning developers and publishers of their own free will to create the worlds and narratives they want to create for the players. It is not the fault of the developers when you have the marketing department or the fans or the media run with a joke and completely omit the actual story and narrative of the game. I'm sure you've certainly have gotten tired of "I used to be an adventurer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee". That gives a very jaded view from those that look at games from the outside and doesn't actually give an understanding of the game's plot or game mechanics or narrative. Sure it is done in all in good fun or sales but those that actually take the time that have played Tomb Raider understand that Lara Croft was slandered by the fans and the media while the actual content of the game was so much more.

You wanna fix these problems? Find people who take an interest in programming and encourage that, help fund their education and to create games. Encourage developers to hang onto their staff and reward them by supporting their products. Encourage publishers and developers to end the "crunch time" that creates such high retention and causes programmers, artists, writers, and QA to leave the video game industry. Have the careers actually be careers instead of jobs. But the most important part is to ensure that developers and publishers have the freedom and liberty to create what they want for better or for worse. While we here in the USA might scorn the H-Game market in Japan you cannot deny that for better or for worse they are selling a game to their players and despite the sexual acts involved there is still a narrative there. You certainly are going to meet a TON of resistance if you try and enforce your beliefs and try and encourage that equality in Japan on the H-game industry.

The reason that I didn't answer your questions is due to their being wrapped in a long waffling essay littered with grammatical errors and non-sequiturs

I answered your accusation that I wasn't being fair to Trekkie. And THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FORUM TOPIC is the tidal wave of misogyny targeting a female commentator when she dared to discuss sexism in games.

Instead you want to waffle on about developers and markets. It's not the developers that are sexist and they are not even really being discussed here. Its gamers that go onto forums and target ladies who dare make comments about sexuality, sexism and gender in games with words like slut, whore, dumb ***** and top it off with threats of rape.

^^^^NOT OKAY^^^^^

Liking Soul Calibur is okay, Calling Soul Calibur sexist IS ALSO OKAY. Threatening a women who dares to call Soul Calibur sexist with rape IS NOT OKAY.

To then go onto a forum where the discussion is about this disgusting behaviour and turning the conversations to the mere existence of false rape accusations is breathtakingly and hilariously ironically gauche.

 

[runic knight]

The reason that I didn't answer your questions is due to their being wrapped in a long waffling essay littered with grammatical errors and non-sequiturs

I answered your accusation that I wasn't being fair to Trekkie. And THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FORUM TOPIC is the tidal wave of misogyny targeting a female commentator when she dared to discuss sexism in games.

Instead you want to waffle on about developers and markets. It's not the developers that are sexist and they are not even really being discussed here. Its gamers that go onto forums and target ladies who dare make comments about sexuality, sexism and gender in games with words like slut, whore, dumb ***** and top it off with threats of rape.

^^^^NOT OKAY^^^^^

Liking Soul Calibur is okay, Calling Soul Calibur sexist IS ALSO OKAY. Threatening a women who dares to call Soul Calibur sexist with rape IS NOT OKAY.

To then go onto a forum where the discussion is about this disgusting behaviour and turning the conversations to the mere existence of false rape accusations is breathtakingly and hilariously ironically gauche.

The point of this topic got expanded, as is the nature of discussion.
Now, you can point at the comments made and, like she did, call it evidence. I call that dishonest though. Aside that you can find such trolls everywhere on youtube, aside that there is evidence of a manufactured controversy that was baiting the asshats of the web to come out to play, and aside from the likelihood of alts, socks and the like, there is a fundamental aspect you overlook: It is a fallacy.

This is not evidence that gamers rebel against feminism, this is barely evidence that a vocal minority does.

The reason he mentions developers and the like is because he is trying to explain the other source of the tropes she is talking about. They come from story telling issues, business issues, cultural issues. It is not as simple as was presented and in doing so, it is intellectually dishonest.

Now, I agree there are some real jerks out there, people who abuse the anonymity of the web to be vulgar, worthless dregs on humanity. That is well known and, surprise surprise, not exclusive to video games. You present the dishonest notion it is.

No one here is arguing that the way they behave is right, or justifiable. We are arguing against being lumped in with them because people are intellectually lazy and want a damn scapegoat to blame. There is a correlation between video games and this attitude. But you know what? There is one about Rainy days and gang shoot outs too. Not once has she, you or any one else shown a true causation. And yet you seem to imply one here.


Also, I can only assume after reading that exchange, but perhaps the mention of rape accusations and lack of equality in them was not a reference to legal preceding, but of social repercussions. If a man is accused of rape, save the most outlandish of claims made, the society handles him with great caution if it doesn't outright turn against him. If you need evidence, look up the countless cases about rape claims made against school faculty. The claim made with often cost them their job as the school distance themselves from the controversy. Truth or lie, it can cost a man not only their job but the trust of the society they live in. A claim has this much power. While I do not agree with their full argument, on that point, they did have a good example of sexism cutting the other way.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

He's a blithering idiot for bringing up on a forum about misogyny.

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

When the argument is "men shouldn't be sexist dicks in internet posts" the counter argument should not be "women shouldn't falsely report rape." .

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

 

[Schadrach]

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE?

Because it's one of the few crimes where a conviction can be brought about on no real evidence other than an allegation, that in cases of false allegation *still* ruins the life of the accused even if not convicted, and for which even persons who do falsely accuse are only rarely actually charged with it, even more rarely convicted, and even then the punishment in most jurisdictions is equivalent to that of speeding?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

Actually, male circumcision is exactly homologous to female genital mutilation type Ia, the removal of the prepuce [footnote]referred to more commonly as the foreskin on males or clitoral hood on females[/footnote] only, removing a large number of nerve endings and causing the glans [footnote]the head of the penis in males or clitoris in females[/footnote] to become desensitized from being exposed instead of being essentially an internal organ. That this is seen as a horrible and wrong activity to perform against women but not men (actually, WHO is encouraging it on men) is outright sexist.

Most other types of FGM (types Ib, II, and III -- type IV is essentially "other" and includes things as minor as a symbolic nick, but also as severe as slicing the inside of the vaginal canal in order to enlarge it) do not have a real analogue performed on males, and are even more barbaric than type Ia (excepting type IV, which is all over the place).

 

[Calibanbutcher]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

He's a blithering idiot for bringing up on a forum about misogyny.

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

When the argument is "men shouldn't be sexist dicks in internet posts" the counter argument should not be "women shouldn't falsely report rape." .

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

For female circumcision vs male genital mutilation (two can play this game) see the guy above me.
(But a little add-on: You do know, that male genital mutilation also means taking many, many nerv-endings? That piece of skin is not just a piece of sin, it also contains a majority of all nerve endings in the penis)
Now, as for the rest of your post:

Why is falsely accusing someone of rape:
Again, Schadrach nailed it.

And he never used it as a direct counter-argument to the inital topic, the thread had long since then derailed.

"The implication":
Well, you just had to go and make something up, didn't you?
Never mind that he never said that, never implied it and did not make himself out to be a misogynist and even presented sources to back up his claims.

When in doubt, make up accusations.

Since this is an argument about false accusations, this really is quite ironic, wouldn't you agree?

(Also, anyone got the name for this fallacy?)

And one more thing:
ADOLF HITLER.
Now Godwin's Law is also taken care of.

 

[Hollyday]

snip

Firstly, Jesus Christ that's a lot of text! It's a testament to how deep our feelings are on this subject that we a) can be bothered to spend that much time typing and b)can be bothered to read the reply. It's probably also a testament to how we need to get a life...

he even showed me the form he had to sign in order to be able to vote :/ , his sister however did not have to register for the draft.

As awful as this is, it's worth remembering that women don't get out of this because they are considered superior in some way. They aren't included because they're not considered physically or mentally strong enough.

One of my drinking buddies was told that if he didn't marry then he was taking away the happiness of someone ells.... a man is only a stud if he sleeps with attractive women, same with women who get very attractive men or women who get young men and are called cougars, a term used from what iv seen as a glorification whilst a man who sleeps with young women is a called a creep... Seriously I have actually seen men refuse to use the same bathroom stall with a man who dose this in case they get herpes or something. and have seen men clean anything his bare arse touches with bleach, like a portable toilet. and if you think im exaggerating, im really not. Ask guys this they will confirm.

I've definitely NEVER come across either of those two phenomena - men being told they are taking away from someone's happiness, and men ostracising other men who sleep around. Obviously I can't deny it happens, but I'll admit I'm extremely dubious. And it can't possibly be as prevalent as the pressure/disgust showered on women for these things.

Cougar is a fairly new term, but it often still has negative connotations (predatory, for example). The one I've heard most in this situation is 'cradle-snatcher', which is even used for women who are dating someone only a year or so younger. Obviously I've heard men being called 'creep' before, but you just have to look at the amount of age-gap relationships with older men to see that it's a thousand times more acceptable than the other way round (yes, a thousand times is the actual, real statistic. I did research... asking people in a pub counts as research, right?).

Your point about jobs I find difficult to counter, since both of us are only using conjecture. In a society where the gender split is 50/50, the disparity between genders in the workplace is staggering, and one that can't simply be explained away with 'women have families' or 'women don't like stressful jobs'. And don't get me started on different salaries for men and women doing exactly the same job. Seriously, just don't.

the birth rate is starting to falter because women aren't interested in grass eaters and so it has made the media and Japanese govt put out press releases saying that men need to man up!

Just as I'm sure men aren't interested in women who just sit at home all day twirling their hair and watching Murder She Wrote. That's just common sense - some of it may be materialistic, but not all. Having a job shows drive, intelligence, staying power, interpersonal skills - general stuff that's pretty desirable (essential even) in a partner of either gender.

and all a circumcision dose is inhibit male sexual sensation. so why is Female GM illegal in most countries and Male GM (and i will call it genital mutilation because that's what it is, you are cutting off a piece of the mas penis that by the way is fused to his glands at birth by default) why is that legal everywhere?

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this topic, but male circumcision isn't performed on men by women who are doing it as a form of social control.

apparently he think men who complain about misandry in games are just cry babies who need to grow up. see a parallel? and this is a games journalist.....

I actually agree with everything he says in this article (Jim Sterling - Thank GOD for you!). He makes some good points about the fact that the calls of misandry in computer games is all a reaction to this video. There are negative stereotypes of men in games, films, society in general but they are vastly outnumbered by the negative (and yes, misogynistic) views of women, which are not only prevalent but are largely ignored. See also 'Tropes vs Moviebob'.

 

[Trekkie]

Firstly, Jesus Christ that's a lot of text! It's a testament to how deep our feelings are on this subject that we a) can be bothered to spend that much time typing and b)can be bothered to read the reply. It's probably also a testament to how we need to get a life...

Yeah i think ill make this my last reply, i cant spend all day replying to people, i need to play some skyrim

As awful as this is, it's worth remembering that women don't get out of this because they are considered superior in some way. They aren't included because they're not considered physically or mentally strong enough.

well whilst that maybe true, and the fact of the matter is that men are typicall more physically stronger than women, watch the Olympics weight lifting to see that i guess, and although i don't think most people see women as mentally weaker, but just a few vocal few its worth noticing that whilst feminists rant and rage about discrimination in the military, they haver never once said "we want the draft for women" and campaigned for it.

I've definitely NEVER come across either of those two phenomena - men being told they are taking away from someone's happiness, and men ostracising other men who sleep around. Obviously I can't deny it happens, but I'll admit I'm extremely dubious. And it can't possibly be as prevalent as the pressure/disgust showered on women for these things.

be honest i think never seeing it towards men may have something to do with by the time most men reach that age they are or have already been married and so you never really see it unless you hang around men all the time. from what iv seen it main component with it is children, like if he is unwilling to father children with someone then he is refusing her the right to be a mother. the easiest way to see it is to go to a family party as a plus one and observe a mother with her adult sons. if they have not already had children she will try to pressure them by saying "i cant wait to be a grandmother, why haven't you two brought a lovely girl with you? how are you not married yet?" etc etc. last time I was at a family party, all my relatives kept asking me "why haven't you got a nice girl, when are you going to get a girlfriend..... i drank sooo much that night

Cougar is a fairly new term, but it often still has negative connotations (predatory, for example). The one I've heard most in this situation is 'cradle-snatcher', which is even used for women who are dating someone only a year or so younger. Obviously I've heard men being called 'creep' before, but you just have to look at the amount of age-gap relationships with older men to see that it's a thousand times more acceptable than the other way round (yes, a thousand times is the actual, real statistic. I did research... asking people in a pub counts as research, right?).

i see your point about cougar being a predatory term but iv seen it used in more positive than negative lights. for instance there was a tv show called cougar town.

as for your research?.... depends how drunk they where?

Your point about jobs I find difficult to counter, since both of us are only using conjecture. In a society where the gender split is 50/50, the disparity between genders in the workplace is staggering, and one that can't simply be explained away with 'women have families' or 'women don't like stressful jobs'. And don't get me started on different salaries for men and women doing exactly the same job. Seriously, just don't.

well like it said in the CONSAD report, there are too many factors to do with choice to accurately account for the gender wage gap and gender disparity in the work place. yes that is shortening it down but i don't want to flood the page again

Just as I'm sure men aren't interested in women who just sit at home all day twirling their hair and watching Murder She Wrote. That's just common sense - some of it may be materialistic, but not all. Having a job shows drive, intelligence, staying power, interpersonal skills - general stuff that's pretty desirable (essential even) in a partner of either gender.

Although that is true and trust me id love it if i found a girlfriend who could build a computer and change a cars head gasket, most men dont really care if their GF dose or doesn't work, my EX didn't for example, but i don't want to talk about her..... :/

a couple of years ago when i was doing my bricklaying course i had to wait around for an hour and a half for class to start because my collage was so far away the bus only came at a curtain time. and in that time i used to sit around in the canteen and play angry birds ETC however it was in this time that i also used to casually listen into convocations. now dont get me wrong the girls at that collage where nothing like women on here, the girls at that collage used to sicken me. However I noticed that girls where usually very picky about guys when it came to jobs. i noticed that they would ask around and see what a guy has and dose before they try to get their attention. the most common one was a lot of girls wouldn't consider going out with a guy unless he had a car, things that guys don't really care about.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this topic, but male circumcision isn't performed on men by women who are doing it as a form of social control.

well actually thats where we disagree. http://www.genderlinks.org.za/article/swaziland-women-love-male-circumcision-2012-03-05

in places like Sweden (just don't get me started with that country), Swaziland and most of Africa nations, governments have began circumcision programs. this is apparently to stop aids and other infectious diseases. however in reality it make no difference to HIV/Aids or any other disease but people seem to be convinced that its "cleaner" and in places like Swaziland, Sweden ETC men who aren't circumcised have began to be seen as unclean or a risk and many are finding it hard to find a relationship.

I actually agree with everything he says in this article (Jim Sterling - Thank GOD for you!). He makes some good points about the fact that the calls of misandry in computer games is all a reaction to this video. There are negative stereotypes of men in games, films, society in general but they are vastly outnumbered by the negative (and yes, misogynistic) views of women, which are not only prevalent but are largely ignored. See also 'Tropes vs Moviebob'.

even if it is just a response every time a man points out misandry we are "cry babies" a while back (it was on here so you may remember) a Russian developer reviled their plans to charge men more than women to play. when people said this is sexist against men the response was "oh quit complaining, they just want more women to play" when really if women wanted to play they would play regardless of the price.

and even if it is a response its still valid. if a youtube video pointed out the fact that men pay 2-3 times more for car insurance than women on the basis that they are men and you pointed out the old women driver jokes and how some men see women as bad drivers for being women. yours is still a valid point and you shouldn't just be called a "cry baby" because your pointing out how women get fucked over to. If we call people cry babies for pointing out the other side of the story then how can we ever have a real in-depth analysis? y'know like me and you are having now.

and yes whilst it may be true that there are an awful lot of negative stereotypes for women, having positive ones isn't so great to. Because if you don't live up to them your not seen as a "real man" like if you don't feel comfortable with going to war after being called up for the draft your "not a real man" because society sees men as couragus and should always be willing to do their part for their country. during WW1 there where groups of women who went around presenting white feather to any man over 16 who wasn't in a military uniform. back then the with feather meant that you was a coward. so what these women did was call any man who didn't want to go to war and die in a muddy, mustard gas filled trench and contract trench foot in the process.. a coward.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/11/first-world-war-white-feather-cowardice

 

[Trekkie]

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

First off thank you for defending

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

okay heres the thing, this thread has been going on for over a THOUSAND posts,do you not think it would have derailed and stemmed of into other matters? they all do!

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

I never said that. what i said was a flase accusation screws all of us over because it takes police time and Tax payer money away from solving a crime that actually happened. where in my post did i call a women sluts if they report rape? hell where did i even use the word slut before this?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

your eyelid is a piece of skin do you want that removed? when your circumcise someone you are CUTTING OFF A PIECE OF THEIR BODY! and this is done when they are a baby so they have no say in the matter, taking away their rights as a human being. hell some hospitals do it without telling the parents.

http://mothering.com/jennifermargulis/rejecting-modern-medicine/a-newborn-in-the-hospital-circumcised-without-his-parents-consent

when you circumcise someone you are cutting them up and altering something that their body dose. i think you'll find that there are nerve ending inside the vagina as well as on the clitoris meaning the woman will still fell sex and pleasure is still possible. but that doesn't make it right it is still mutilation!

besides if men where meant to have foreskins we would be born with them..... oh wait....