Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

 

[Trekkie]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

oh yeah its not like someone's life is being ruined by that false accusation. if you get falsely accused.... well sucks to be you, be a man a deal with it.

and yeah prosecutors are dicks, they follow the money, there's a reason they're call vampires. everyone knows this.

and again, it was a reply to a long chain of posts in which i gave a counter argument that just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty. people can lie and there needs to be a fair investigation into it, not to just say, well she said you did it, why would she lie?

and also offering a counter argument about the justice system screwing over men doesn't make me a misogynist, neither dose calling women out who make falls claims of rape and DV. but then again im a man, how dare i have an opinion on gender politics, guess i should just go get at the back of the line where i belong.

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

oh yeah its not like someone's life is being ruined by that false accusation. if you get falsely accused.... well sucks to be you, be a man a deal with it.

and yeah prosecutors are dicks, they follow the money, there's a reason they're call vampires. everyone knows this.

and again, it was a reply to a long chain of posts in which i gave a counter argument that just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty. people can lie and there needs to be a fair investigation into it, not to just say, well she said you did it, why would she lie?

and also offering a counter argument about the justice system screwing over men doesn't make me a misogynist, neither dose calling women out who make falls claims of rape and DV. but then again im a man, how dare i have an opinion on gender politics, guess i should just go get at the back of the line where i belong.

The justice system screws over everybody mate.

"just because someone is accused of rape, doesn't mean their guilty."

THIS IS TRUE OF ANY CRIME.

You're the one focusing on female accusations of rape. That makes you misogynist. AND you have the gumption to make a big deal about it on a forum news-post calling out for less gamer misogny. Nice work.

 

[ACman]

blah

The calibre of her journalism is irrelevant. The issue here is sexism in the gamer community.

And I take issue with Trekkie's alarming lack of self awareness in his slightly disturbing obsession with false rape accusations during a discussion about sexist attacks in any forum youtube or otherwise.

I don't have to break bread with him. His words damn him irrevocably.

And your lack of self awareness is also alarming, YOU may be a paragon of masculine virtue, but the gaming community does harbour an element of sexist, homophobic, jerks and trolls. It's worth discussing regardless of what you think of the lady journalist in question.

 

[ACman]

blah

The calibre of her journalism is irrelevant. The issue here is sexism in the gamer community.

And I take issue with Trekkie's alarming lack of self awareness in his slightly disturbing obsession with false rape accusations during a discussion about sexist attacks in any forum youtube or otherwise.

I don't have to break bread with him. His words damn him irrevocably.

And your lack of self awareness is also alarming, YOU may be a paragon of masculine virtue, but the gaming community does harbour an element of sexist, homophobic, jerks and trolls. It's worth discussing regardless of what you think of the lady journalist in question.

I'm sorry but I notice you didn't actually take any of the time to actually answer my questions in my post.

Also also are willing to damn me with your assumption of my "lack of self awareness" so instead of actually discussing the subject and the points of my post you almost slander myself.

Also no one is a paragon of virtue as our culture in both society and physical location radically changes. What was once accepted today was banned years ago and what was once accepted in the past is banned today. You won't see the same rights for women going from the USA to the middle east nor will you see the same sexual inhibition you see in the USA compared to the liberty in Japan. It will always be relative and ever changing.

Also I've grown up with the video game industry since the 1980's and have even reached out to what we consider the heart of the video game industry, Japan. This includes for better and for worse. Trust me, most of the problem you think exists is only a problem because you think it exists.

Now there are problems in the video game industry but honestly if you actually sit down and do the research you will find the problems aren't centered on gender at all but more on cold hard business practices that have become the "norm". While many people aspire to actually become part of the video game industry very few people actually get to enter and of those who get a career in the video game industry their lifespan is basically a ticking timebomb. The average of a person who gets to enter the video game industry only lasts FIVE years. That is regardless of gender, that is incredibly short and that doesn't even go into detail on the backbreaking labor divisions of the video game industry have to go through like Quality Assurance.

There are problems with simply attracting women to actually even think or become trained to participate in the video game industry. Is it really sexist when the majority of computer science and information technology students are male? Given the fact that most people have their free will it is certainly their choice of the man and the choice of the woman to pursue the major they so desire(hopefully neither person is pressured into a major they don't want to be in). How would it exactly be fair to those millions of people who want to become involved with the video game industry to simply be excluded by people who don't want to really be there in the first place or worse just care about the money and not the product. Even this problem has more to do with actually getting people the qualifications and portfolio needed proving to developers and publishers that candidates that apply are well qualified and worth the investment.

These are the actual problems of the video game industry. Not the criticism of literary devices damning developers and publishers of their own free will to create the worlds and narratives they want to create for the players. It is not the fault of the developers when you have the marketing department or the fans or the media run with a joke and completely omit the actual story and narrative of the game. I'm sure you've certainly have gotten tired of "I used to be an adventurer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee". That gives a very jaded view from those that look at games from the outside and doesn't actually give an understanding of the game's plot or game mechanics or narrative. Sure it is done in all in good fun or sales but those that actually take the time that have played Tomb Raider understand that Lara Croft was slandered by the fans and the media while the actual content of the game was so much more.

You wanna fix these problems? Find people who take an interest in programming and encourage that, help fund their education and to create games. Encourage developers to hang onto their staff and reward them by supporting their products. Encourage publishers and developers to end the "crunch time" that creates such high retention and causes programmers, artists, writers, and QA to leave the video game industry. Have the careers actually be careers instead of jobs. But the most important part is to ensure that developers and publishers have the freedom and liberty to create what they want for better or for worse. While we here in the USA might scorn the H-Game market in Japan you cannot deny that for better or for worse they are selling a game to their players and despite the sexual acts involved there is still a narrative there. You certainly are going to meet a TON of resistance if you try and enforce your beliefs and try and encourage that equality in Japan on the H-game industry.

The reason that I didn't answer your questions is due to their being wrapped in a long waffling essay littered with grammatical errors and non-sequiturs

I answered your accusation that I wasn't being fair to Trekkie. And THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FORUM TOPIC is the tidal wave of misogyny targeting a female commentator when she dared to discuss sexism in games.

Instead you want to waffle on about developers and markets. It's not the developers that are sexist and they are not even really being discussed here. Its gamers that go onto forums and target ladies who dare make comments about sexuality, sexism and gender in games with words like slut, whore, dumb ***** and top it off with threats of rape.

^^^^NOT OKAY^^^^^

Liking Soul Calibur is okay, Calling Soul Calibur sexist IS ALSO OKAY. Threatening a women who dares to call Soul Calibur sexist with rape IS NOT OKAY.

To then go onto a forum where the discussion is about this disgusting behaviour and turning the conversations to the mere existence of false rape accusations is breathtakingly and hilariously ironically gauche.

 

[runic knight]

The reason that I didn't answer your questions is due to their being wrapped in a long waffling essay littered with grammatical errors and non-sequiturs

I answered your accusation that I wasn't being fair to Trekkie. And THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS FORUM TOPIC is the tidal wave of misogyny targeting a female commentator when she dared to discuss sexism in games.

Instead you want to waffle on about developers and markets. It's not the developers that are sexist and they are not even really being discussed here. Its gamers that go onto forums and target ladies who dare make comments about sexuality, sexism and gender in games with words like slut, whore, dumb ***** and top it off with threats of rape.

^^^^NOT OKAY^^^^^

Liking Soul Calibur is okay, Calling Soul Calibur sexist IS ALSO OKAY. Threatening a women who dares to call Soul Calibur sexist with rape IS NOT OKAY.

To then go onto a forum where the discussion is about this disgusting behaviour and turning the conversations to the mere existence of false rape accusations is breathtakingly and hilariously ironically gauche.

The point of this topic got expanded, as is the nature of discussion.
Now, you can point at the comments made and, like she did, call it evidence. I call that dishonest though. Aside that you can find such trolls everywhere on youtube, aside that there is evidence of a manufactured controversy that was baiting the asshats of the web to come out to play, and aside from the likelihood of alts, socks and the like, there is a fundamental aspect you overlook: It is a fallacy.

This is not evidence that gamers rebel against feminism, this is barely evidence that a vocal minority does.

The reason he mentions developers and the like is because he is trying to explain the other source of the tropes she is talking about. They come from story telling issues, business issues, cultural issues. It is not as simple as was presented and in doing so, it is intellectually dishonest.

Now, I agree there are some real jerks out there, people who abuse the anonymity of the web to be vulgar, worthless dregs on humanity. That is well known and, surprise surprise, not exclusive to video games. You present the dishonest notion it is.

No one here is arguing that the way they behave is right, or justifiable. We are arguing against being lumped in with them because people are intellectually lazy and want a damn scapegoat to blame. There is a correlation between video games and this attitude. But you know what? There is one about Rainy days and gang shoot outs too. Not once has she, you or any one else shown a true causation. And yet you seem to imply one here.


Also, I can only assume after reading that exchange, but perhaps the mention of rape accusations and lack of equality in them was not a reference to legal preceding, but of social repercussions. If a man is accused of rape, save the most outlandish of claims made, the society handles him with great caution if it doesn't outright turn against him. If you need evidence, look up the countless cases about rape claims made against school faculty. The claim made with often cost them their job as the school distance themselves from the controversy. Truth or lie, it can cost a man not only their job but the trust of the society they live in. A claim has this much power. While I do not agree with their full argument, on that point, they did have a good example of sexism cutting the other way.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

 

[ACman]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

He's a blithering idiot for bringing up on a forum about misogyny.

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

When the argument is "men shouldn't be sexist dicks in internet posts" the counter argument should not be "women shouldn't falsely report rape." .

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

 

[Schadrach]

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE?

Because it's one of the few crimes where a conviction can be brought about on no real evidence other than an allegation, that in cases of false allegation *still* ruins the life of the accused even if not convicted, and for which even persons who do falsely accuse are only rarely actually charged with it, even more rarely convicted, and even then the punishment in most jurisdictions is equivalent to that of speeding?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

Actually, male circumcision is exactly homologous to female genital mutilation type Ia, the removal of the prepuce [footnote]referred to more commonly as the foreskin on males or clitoral hood on females[/footnote] only, removing a large number of nerve endings and causing the glans [footnote]the head of the penis in males or clitoris in females[/footnote] to become desensitized from being exposed instead of being essentially an internal organ. That this is seen as a horrible and wrong activity to perform against women but not men (actually, WHO is encouraging it on men) is outright sexist.

Most other types of FGM (types Ib, II, and III -- type IV is essentially "other" and includes things as minor as a symbolic nick, but also as severe as slicing the inside of the vaginal canal in order to enlarge it) do not have a real analogue performed on males, and are even more barbaric than type Ia (excepting type IV, which is all over the place).

 

[Calibanbutcher]

exactly. also if a woman falsely accuses a man, then that police time and resources has been wasted that could have been used to stop an actual crime.

So women shouldn't report rape?
All women should be blamed for the few that falsely report rape?
All rape isn't really rape but women feeling bad the next morning?
Rape shouldn't be investigated because the women may be making a false accusation?


Mate, your attitude is more than a little disgusting. If a person is raped and the report it to police they deserve, nay, absolutely must have their claims taken seriously.

If you want to have a go at someone have a go at the predatory nature of US prosecutors who instead of simply presenting the facts have an almost psychopathic drive to win at all costs.

It's not just rape defendants who get the hard end in the US justice system. Prosecutors often go for the highest possible charge regardless of whether it may fit the crime. Usually it is to cow the defendant into taking a plea bargain because nobody is sure that they can "win" a jury trial. But sometimes I have to wonder at the ethical landscape that prosecutors live in.

Possession gets turned into trafficking, lending a car to a mate gets turned into a murder charge, completely innocent accidents turn into manslaughter charges, miscarraiges get turned into murders.

It's fucked.

BUT IT IS NOT OKAY TO BLAME WOMEN FOR RAPE.

WOW, okay, read it again because i don't think the phrase false accusation means what you think it mean. a false accusation of rape is when someone lies about someone raping them when that rape didn't actually happen.

and i stick by my last comment, if women didn't make a false accusation of rape, then the time and money wasted on investigating that lie could be used to solve an actual crime like.... oh lets say.... a rape that actually happened.

No shit. But you can't differentiate between false accusations and real ones before you investigate can you? And every accusation of rape deserves to at least be investigated to see whether it merits prosecution.

The fact that there might be a false accusation occasionally has no baring on that. You cannot come from a standpoint that the claim is probably false.

And the fact that you have decide to complain about this on the forum post for an article decrying internet misogyny says something very dire about your personality.

yes but if people didn't falsely accuser others of things like this we could be more effective at stopping it when it happens, or do you not seem to understand that. and what happened to the accused is innocent until proven guilty? if we assume that the claim is true simply on someone's word instead of discerning what's true from the evidence that the accuser provides (which by the way is what our justice system is built on) then we turn the accused into a guilty person simply on a claim.

oh and did you no occur to you that maybe my post was a response to the post above it?

Well that's tough. One of the realities in allowing people to make accusations about anything is that they may make false accusations. A sad fact of life that we have to deal with.

I feel far more anger about false accusations by police jumped up prosecutors going for the highest possible charge just to make their dick feel big.

I also don't care to whom you were responding to. Screaming loudly about about how women falsely accuse of rape on a forum about misogyny makes you misogynist.

You are a blithering idiot.
And here is why:
He said, that women should not FALSELY accuse a man of rape.
Not that rape victims should not report rape.
They should, always, and rapists deserve harsh punishments.
But a woman that knowingly accuses an innocent man of having raped her, when, in fact, every single thing about her story is made up, deserves to be harshly punished.
She is trying to ruin his life, abuse the legal system and, will, in turn make it harder for actual rape victims to be taken seriously.
Rape is horrible.
But accusing a man of rape, knowing, that this man did not commit such a heinous crime, and, in fact, the story is entirely made-up is also horrible.

He's a blithering idiot for bringing up on a forum about misogyny.

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

When the argument is "men shouldn't be sexist dicks in internet posts" the counter argument should not be "women shouldn't falsely report rape." .

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

For female circumcision vs male genital mutilation (two can play this game) see the guy above me.
(But a little add-on: You do know, that male genital mutilation also means taking many, many nerv-endings? That piece of skin is not just a piece of sin, it also contains a majority of all nerve endings in the penis)
Now, as for the rest of your post:

Why is falsely accusing someone of rape:
Again, Schadrach nailed it.

And he never used it as a direct counter-argument to the inital topic, the thread had long since then derailed.

"The implication":
Well, you just had to go and make something up, didn't you?
Never mind that he never said that, never implied it and did not make himself out to be a misogynist and even presented sources to back up his claims.

When in doubt, make up accusations.

Since this is an argument about false accusations, this really is quite ironic, wouldn't you agree?

(Also, anyone got the name for this fallacy?)

And one more thing:
ADOLF HITLER.
Now Godwin's Law is also taken care of.

 

[Hollyday]

snip

Firstly, Jesus Christ that's a lot of text! It's a testament to how deep our feelings are on this subject that we a) can be bothered to spend that much time typing and b)can be bothered to read the reply. It's probably also a testament to how we need to get a life...

he even showed me the form he had to sign in order to be able to vote :/ , his sister however did not have to register for the draft.

As awful as this is, it's worth remembering that women don't get out of this because they are considered superior in some way. They aren't included because they're not considered physically or mentally strong enough.

One of my drinking buddies was told that if he didn't marry then he was taking away the happiness of someone ells.... a man is only a stud if he sleeps with attractive women, same with women who get very attractive men or women who get young men and are called cougars, a term used from what iv seen as a glorification whilst a man who sleeps with young women is a called a creep... Seriously I have actually seen men refuse to use the same bathroom stall with a man who dose this in case they get herpes or something. and have seen men clean anything his bare arse touches with bleach, like a portable toilet. and if you think im exaggerating, im really not. Ask guys this they will confirm.

I've definitely NEVER come across either of those two phenomena - men being told they are taking away from someone's happiness, and men ostracising other men who sleep around. Obviously I can't deny it happens, but I'll admit I'm extremely dubious. And it can't possibly be as prevalent as the pressure/disgust showered on women for these things.

Cougar is a fairly new term, but it often still has negative connotations (predatory, for example). The one I've heard most in this situation is 'cradle-snatcher', which is even used for women who are dating someone only a year or so younger. Obviously I've heard men being called 'creep' before, but you just have to look at the amount of age-gap relationships with older men to see that it's a thousand times more acceptable than the other way round (yes, a thousand times is the actual, real statistic. I did research... asking people in a pub counts as research, right?).

Your point about jobs I find difficult to counter, since both of us are only using conjecture. In a society where the gender split is 50/50, the disparity between genders in the workplace is staggering, and one that can't simply be explained away with 'women have families' or 'women don't like stressful jobs'. And don't get me started on different salaries for men and women doing exactly the same job. Seriously, just don't.

the birth rate is starting to falter because women aren't interested in grass eaters and so it has made the media and Japanese govt put out press releases saying that men need to man up!

Just as I'm sure men aren't interested in women who just sit at home all day twirling their hair and watching Murder She Wrote. That's just common sense - some of it may be materialistic, but not all. Having a job shows drive, intelligence, staying power, interpersonal skills - general stuff that's pretty desirable (essential even) in a partner of either gender.

and all a circumcision dose is inhibit male sexual sensation. so why is Female GM illegal in most countries and Male GM (and i will call it genital mutilation because that's what it is, you are cutting off a piece of the mas penis that by the way is fused to his glands at birth by default) why is that legal everywhere?

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this topic, but male circumcision isn't performed on men by women who are doing it as a form of social control.

apparently he think men who complain about misandry in games are just cry babies who need to grow up. see a parallel? and this is a games journalist.....

I actually agree with everything he says in this article (Jim Sterling - Thank GOD for you!). He makes some good points about the fact that the calls of misandry in computer games is all a reaction to this video. There are negative stereotypes of men in games, films, society in general but they are vastly outnumbered by the negative (and yes, misogynistic) views of women, which are not only prevalent but are largely ignored. See also 'Tropes vs Moviebob'.

 

[Trekkie]

Firstly, Jesus Christ that's a lot of text! It's a testament to how deep our feelings are on this subject that we a) can be bothered to spend that much time typing and b)can be bothered to read the reply. It's probably also a testament to how we need to get a life...

Yeah i think ill make this my last reply, i cant spend all day replying to people, i need to play some skyrim

As awful as this is, it's worth remembering that women don't get out of this because they are considered superior in some way. They aren't included because they're not considered physically or mentally strong enough.

well whilst that maybe true, and the fact of the matter is that men are typicall more physically stronger than women, watch the Olympics weight lifting to see that i guess, and although i don't think most people see women as mentally weaker, but just a few vocal few its worth noticing that whilst feminists rant and rage about discrimination in the military, they haver never once said "we want the draft for women" and campaigned for it.

I've definitely NEVER come across either of those two phenomena - men being told they are taking away from someone's happiness, and men ostracising other men who sleep around. Obviously I can't deny it happens, but I'll admit I'm extremely dubious. And it can't possibly be as prevalent as the pressure/disgust showered on women for these things.

be honest i think never seeing it towards men may have something to do with by the time most men reach that age they are or have already been married and so you never really see it unless you hang around men all the time. from what iv seen it main component with it is children, like if he is unwilling to father children with someone then he is refusing her the right to be a mother. the easiest way to see it is to go to a family party as a plus one and observe a mother with her adult sons. if they have not already had children she will try to pressure them by saying "i cant wait to be a grandmother, why haven't you two brought a lovely girl with you? how are you not married yet?" etc etc. last time I was at a family party, all my relatives kept asking me "why haven't you got a nice girl, when are you going to get a girlfriend..... i drank sooo much that night

Cougar is a fairly new term, but it often still has negative connotations (predatory, for example). The one I've heard most in this situation is 'cradle-snatcher', which is even used for women who are dating someone only a year or so younger. Obviously I've heard men being called 'creep' before, but you just have to look at the amount of age-gap relationships with older men to see that it's a thousand times more acceptable than the other way round (yes, a thousand times is the actual, real statistic. I did research... asking people in a pub counts as research, right?).

i see your point about cougar being a predatory term but iv seen it used in more positive than negative lights. for instance there was a tv show called cougar town.

as for your research?.... depends how drunk they where?

Your point about jobs I find difficult to counter, since both of us are only using conjecture. In a society where the gender split is 50/50, the disparity between genders in the workplace is staggering, and one that can't simply be explained away with 'women have families' or 'women don't like stressful jobs'. And don't get me started on different salaries for men and women doing exactly the same job. Seriously, just don't.

well like it said in the CONSAD report, there are too many factors to do with choice to accurately account for the gender wage gap and gender disparity in the work place. yes that is shortening it down but i don't want to flood the page again

Just as I'm sure men aren't interested in women who just sit at home all day twirling their hair and watching Murder She Wrote. That's just common sense - some of it may be materialistic, but not all. Having a job shows drive, intelligence, staying power, interpersonal skills - general stuff that's pretty desirable (essential even) in a partner of either gender.

Although that is true and trust me id love it if i found a girlfriend who could build a computer and change a cars head gasket, most men dont really care if their GF dose or doesn't work, my EX didn't for example, but i don't want to talk about her..... :/

a couple of years ago when i was doing my bricklaying course i had to wait around for an hour and a half for class to start because my collage was so far away the bus only came at a curtain time. and in that time i used to sit around in the canteen and play angry birds ETC however it was in this time that i also used to casually listen into convocations. now dont get me wrong the girls at that collage where nothing like women on here, the girls at that collage used to sicken me. However I noticed that girls where usually very picky about guys when it came to jobs. i noticed that they would ask around and see what a guy has and dose before they try to get their attention. the most common one was a lot of girls wouldn't consider going out with a guy unless he had a car, things that guys don't really care about.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about this topic, but male circumcision isn't performed on men by women who are doing it as a form of social control.

well actually thats where we disagree. http://www.genderlinks.org.za/article/swaziland-women-love-male-circumcision-2012-03-05

in places like Sweden (just don't get me started with that country), Swaziland and most of Africa nations, governments have began circumcision programs. this is apparently to stop aids and other infectious diseases. however in reality it make no difference to HIV/Aids or any other disease but people seem to be convinced that its "cleaner" and in places like Swaziland, Sweden ETC men who aren't circumcised have began to be seen as unclean or a risk and many are finding it hard to find a relationship.

I actually agree with everything he says in this article (Jim Sterling - Thank GOD for you!). He makes some good points about the fact that the calls of misandry in computer games is all a reaction to this video. There are negative stereotypes of men in games, films, society in general but they are vastly outnumbered by the negative (and yes, misogynistic) views of women, which are not only prevalent but are largely ignored. See also 'Tropes vs Moviebob'.

even if it is just a response every time a man points out misandry we are "cry babies" a while back (it was on here so you may remember) a Russian developer reviled their plans to charge men more than women to play. when people said this is sexist against men the response was "oh quit complaining, they just want more women to play" when really if women wanted to play they would play regardless of the price.

and even if it is a response its still valid. if a youtube video pointed out the fact that men pay 2-3 times more for car insurance than women on the basis that they are men and you pointed out the old women driver jokes and how some men see women as bad drivers for being women. yours is still a valid point and you shouldn't just be called a "cry baby" because your pointing out how women get fucked over to. If we call people cry babies for pointing out the other side of the story then how can we ever have a real in-depth analysis? y'know like me and you are having now.

and yes whilst it may be true that there are an awful lot of negative stereotypes for women, having positive ones isn't so great to. Because if you don't live up to them your not seen as a "real man" like if you don't feel comfortable with going to war after being called up for the draft your "not a real man" because society sees men as couragus and should always be willing to do their part for their country. during WW1 there where groups of women who went around presenting white feather to any man over 16 who wasn't in a military uniform. back then the with feather meant that you was a coward. so what these women did was call any man who didn't want to go to war and die in a muddy, mustard gas filled trench and contract trench foot in the process.. a coward.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/11/first-world-war-white-feather-cowardice

 

[Trekkie]

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

First off thank you for defending

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

okay heres the thing, this thread has been going on for over a THOUSAND posts,do you not think it would have derailed and stemmed of into other matters? they all do!

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

I never said that. what i said was a flase accusation screws all of us over because it takes police time and Tax payer money away from solving a crime that actually happened. where in my post did i call a women sluts if they report rape? hell where did i even use the word slut before this?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

your eyelid is a piece of skin do you want that removed? when your circumcise someone you are CUTTING OFF A PIECE OF THEIR BODY! and this is done when they are a baby so they have no say in the matter, taking away their rights as a human being. hell some hospitals do it without telling the parents.

http://mothering.com/jennifermargulis/rejecting-modern-medicine/a-newborn-in-the-hospital-circumcised-without-his-parents-consent

when you circumcise someone you are cutting them up and altering something that their body dose. i think you'll find that there are nerve ending inside the vagina as well as on the clitoris meaning the woman will still fell sex and pleasure is still possible. but that doesn't make it right it is still mutilation!

besides if men where meant to have foreskins we would be born with them..... oh wait....

 

[Calibanbutcher]

And, to chime in on circumcision one last time:
It is done as a form of social control and to meet a very twisted beauty standard.
Social control, as in, Kellogs made it popular to prevent boys from masturbating.
And beauty, since by now, it has become so widespread, that some women are disgusted by the non-circumcised penis.

 

[Trekkie]

I've definitely NEVER come across either of those two phenomena - men being told they are taking away from someone's happiness, and men ostracising other men who sleep around. Obviously I can't deny it happens, but I'll admit I'm extremely dubious. And it can't possibly be as prevalent as the pressure/disgust showered on women for these things.

remember when I said about the grass eating boys? well there was one article on here about it. a very short one mind you that briefly discussed the "grass eating boys"

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115977-Not-Wanting-a-Girlfriend-is-a-Serious-Illness

the article focuses on the Japanese governments blaming of games and nerd culture as part of why it is happening (ofcourse) but the main point is that the article is about guys in Japan just don't want to climb the ladder and compete with each other for societal status anymore. instead just want do their own thing and not society tells them to do..... and this is society's reply. plus it also ties in with men pressure to get married and have a family.

 

[ACman]

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE?

Because it's one of the few crimes where a conviction can be brought about on no real evidence other than an allegation, that in cases of false allegation *still* ruins the life of the accused even if not convicted, and for which even persons who do falsely accuse are only rarely actually charged with it, even more rarely convicted, and even then the punishment in most jurisdictions is equivalent to that of speeding?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

Actually, male circumcision is exactly homologous to female genital mutilation type Ia, the removal of the prepuce [footnote]referred to more commonly as the foreskin on males or clitoral hood on females[/footnote] only, removing a large number of nerve endings and causing the glans [footnote]the head of the penis in males or clitoris in females[/footnote] to become desensitized from being exposed instead of being essentially an internal organ. That this is seen as a horrible and wrong activity to perform against women but not men (actually, WHO is encouraging it on men) is outright sexist.

Most other types of FGM (types Ib, II, and III -- type IV is essentially "other" and includes things as minor as a symbolic nick, but also as severe as slicing the inside of the vaginal canal in order to enlarge it) do not have a real analogue performed on males, and are even more barbaric than type Ia (excepting type IV, which is all over the place).

And it is inappropriate to talk about that on a forum about misogyny.

And NO. SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!

 

[ACman]

If you can't see how obtuse that is then you're a blithering idiot for defending him.

First off thank you for defending

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE? If you want to talk about that, do it on a separate forum post. Here it just makes him, and by association, the rest of us look like pigs.

okay heres the thing, this thread has been going on for over a THOUSAND posts,do you not think it would have derailed and stemmed of into other matters? they all do!

The implication is that he thinks (Whether he does or not) that it's okay to call women sluts and whore from the anonymity of an internet terminal because *some* (meaning very fucking few) women falsely report rape.

I never said that. what i said was a flase accusation screws all of us over because it takes police time and Tax payer money away from solving a crime that actually happened. where in my post did i call a women sluts if they report rape? hell where did i even use the word slut before this?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

your eyelid is a piece of skin do you want that removed? when your circumcise someone you are CUTTING OFF A PIECE OF THEIR BODY! and this is done when they are a baby so they have no say in the matter, taking away their rights as a human being. hell some hospitals do it without telling the parents.

http://mothering.com/jennifermargulis/rejecting-modern-medicine/a-newborn-in-the-hospital-circumcised-without-his-parents-consent

when you circumcise someone you are cutting them up and altering something that their body dose. i think you'll find that there are nerve ending inside the vagina as well as on the clitoris meaning the woman will still fell sex and pleasure is still possible. but that doesn't make it right it is still mutilation!

besides if men where meant to have foreskins we would be born with them..... oh wait....

Mate you're obviously a refugee from r/mensrights

I'm not saying I agree with male circumcision but I will unequivocally say that comparing it to female genital mutilation is NOT APPROPRIATE. AND claiming that society supporting one and rightly denouncing another is sexist IS IN FACT SEXIST.

Your a whinging manbaby. Of all the small difficult things that happen to men you can only find one (accusations of rape) that don't happen to women tenfold. And in some countries being raped results in marrying you rapist or being honour killed. DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN TO MEN?