Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[ACman]

blah

YES! The fucking implication.

Trekkie's obsession with false accusations of rape, "grass eating boys" in Japan, and comparing male circumcision to female genital mutilation imply something deeply worrying about his character.

A) Men rape. If a tiny minority of us didn't an even tinyer minority of women wouldn't be able to falsely accuse us of it.

B) I don't know where he's going with Grass Eating boy's but he seems to be implying that it's women's fault that as small percentage of men lack the social skills to have a girlfriend.

C) While I don't agree with male circumcision I certainly do not think it's appropriate to complain that societies acceptance of it while vilifying female genital mutilation is somehow sexist against men. <---This is utter insanity.

Yes the piece of skin involved has lots of nerve endings. NEWS FLASH. They don't cut off the entire end of your cock, it does't make sex painful, it doesn't eliminate sexual pleasure as female genital mutilation does for women, it isn't used as a tool to control men's sexuality.

^^^SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

He's trying to justify his misogyny.

And while forum threads may mutate it's tragically ironic that while the topic was originally decrying misogyny it has turned into a list of justifications for it. r/mensrights.

I'll leave you manchildren to it.

 

[runic knight]

And it is inappropriate to talk about that on a forum about misogyny.

And NO. SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!

Hmm, an unasked for medical procedure that removes sensations and massive amount of nerve endings based on antiquated religious practices that try to guide population by stemming natural sexual urges and have become followed based on tradition and social pressures...
Yeah....no, they are pretty similar in a lot of respects. Hell, even if only on the whole "unasked for surgery done to a child" aspect, it comes off as pretty evil to both genders, once you abandon the idea that the commonality of it means it is ok.

Also, as people have said, the topic has branched out all over the place. Seems silly to put the foot down on this one issue when it relates back to a counter point concerning misogyny in the first place. Uncomfortable talking about people being mutilated, yeah, but a valid reason relating to the main subject as well. And yes, it is mutilation since that is defined as either "the loss of limb or important part" (which can be argued given the purpose of the foreskin), or more fittingly "To disfigure by damaging irreparably", which is true of having the largest collection of sensitive nerves in the organ being removed. Again, without permission or consent in most cases.


Also, why are you getting so much more hostile as the conversation goes? I mean slinging accusations, attacking the character of other posters... you are starting to come apart at the seems and look more and more like you are trying to troll then have a legitimate discussion here mate.

 

[runic knight]

Alright. Here we go. I'm not calling you out, I'm using your post as it was the most recent at time of typing.


What the fuck?
Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with the people here?
How did we get from, "A woman who is bringing nothing new to the table and really doesn't deserve money for this project being internet harassed" to,"male circumcision"!?
And rape?

What the fuck. One of you needs to explain it to me because we are 34 pages in, and the subject has long been lost.

From what I saw, the conversation went from about her issues about female tropes in gaming to opening it up about how tropes of all sorts are prevalent and that there are many that apply to men as well. This was countered by a special pleading about how women have it worse in society in general, which was countered with examples relating to rape (how claims are handled differ by gender, how they affect the gender claimed upon, etc.), and male circumcision (in contrast to female circumcision, which is vilified, male circumcision is widely accepted if not outright encouraged in some places.). Thus we are here. Soo...

Female tropes in games-----> Tropes in games in general ------> special pleading about women's issues in society ----> counter about male issues in society, including those relating to rape and circumcision.

 

[Schadrach]

A person shouldn't falsely accuse somebody of anything. WHY FOCUS ON RAPE?

Because it's one of the few crimes where a conviction can be brought about on no real evidence other than an allegation, that in cases of false allegation *still* ruins the life of the accused even if not convicted, and for which even persons who do falsely accuse are only rarely actually charged with it, even more rarely convicted, and even then the punishment in most jurisdictions is equivalent to that of speeding?

He even take the time to compare male circumcision (the removal of a small piece of skin which leaves altered sensation but where function and pleasure are still possible) to female genital mutilation where the entire clitoris and even the labial lips are removed. Circumcision is not comparable to female genital mutilation. If they were equivalent the penis would be severed halfway down the shaft.

Actually, male circumcision is exactly homologous to female genital mutilation type Ia, the removal of the prepuce [footnote]referred to more commonly as the foreskin on males or clitoral hood on females[/footnote] only, removing a large number of nerve endings and causing the glans [footnote]the head of the penis in males or clitoris in females[/footnote] to become desensitized from being exposed instead of being essentially an internal organ. That this is seen as a horrible and wrong activity to perform against women but not men (actually, WHO is encouraging it on men) is outright sexist.

Most other types of FGM (types Ib, II, and III -- type IV is essentially "other" and includes things as minor as a symbolic nick, but also as severe as slicing the inside of the vaginal canal in order to enlarge it) do not have a real analogue performed on males, and are even more barbaric than type Ia (excepting type IV, which is all over the place).

And it is inappropriate to talk about that on a forum about misogyny.

And NO. SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!

Do you understand the language used to describe the various types and kinds of FGM?

Type Ia is the removal of the prepuce. No more, no less. It is literally the removal of the homologous part of the anatomy to what is done in male circumcision. The prepuce in females is more commonly called the clitoral hood, as opposed to the foreskin on a male and it serves an equivalent function -- to cover the glans (the clitoris or head of the penis) protecting it from the environment as it is supposed to be an internal bit, as well as the prepuce carrying a lot of nerve endings of its own. The removal of the prepuce exposes the glans, causing it to dry, toughen, and reduce in sensitivity, in a process that is essentially the same as the one that causes corns on the feet.

Type Ib is partial or total removal of the clitoris. Type II involves partial or total removal of the labia as well. Type III is what is known as infibulation or "pharaonic circumcision", which is the one in which the clitoris and labia are removed and the legs bound together to cause the wound to grow together, leaving only a small opening for urine and menstruation. Type IV is literally anything else, from a small symbolic nick, to gouging the inner surfaces of the vagina.

Type Ia is exactly homologous to what is done to men. The others are much more severe and increasingly barbaric, excepting specific cases of type IV, as type IV is a catch-all for anything that isn't type I-III.

B) I don't know where he's going with Grass Eating boy's but he seems to be implying that it's women's fault that as small percentage of men lack the social skills to have a girlfriend.

The "grass eaters" are a subculture in Japan who basically look at the requirements placed on men by Japanese culture, and essentially respond with "fuck that." The concept, if not the execution, is similar to "Men Going Their Own Way."

Yes the piece of skin involved has lots of nerve endings. NEWS FLASH. They don't cut off the entire end of your cock, it does't make sex painful, it doesn't eliminate sexual pleasure as female genital mutilation does for women, it isn't used as a tool to control men's sexuality.

^^^SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

Actually the rise of circumcision in the US started largely it was believed it would reduce male libido and prevent masturbation. So, yeah, outside of the Jews and a subset of Muslims (groups for whom it is a religious obligation), it actually was a tool to control men's sexuality.

This is even more of a derail unfortunately than the previous derail that you were complaining about. =p

 

[ACman]

Actually the rise of circumcision in the US started largely it was believed it would reduce male libido and prevent masturbation. So, yeah, outside of the Jews and a subset of Muslims (groups for whom it is a religious obligation), it actually was a tool to control men's sexuality.

This is even more of a derail unfortunately than the previous derail that you were complaining about. =p

While this is partially true a more significant factor was the germ theory of disease making the public "germ phobic" and suspicious of dirt and bodily secretions. The penis became "dirty" by association with its function, and from this premise circumcision was seen as preventative medicine.

And since female genital mutilation almost universally involves the removal of at least the clitoris ("Type 1" is almost invariably Type 1b) and male circumcision never intentionally involves the removal of the glans my argument still stands. ie SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!

The original topic was decrying the misogyny of gamers and my point is that men equating male circumcision with FGM, and bring false-rape-accusation as proof that men somehow are just as descriminated against as women is in fact also misogyny. So I'm still on topic.

 

[Spearmaster]

snip

I'm starting to see more of what your saying and I'm gonna start paying more attention to how women are portrayed in the games I play, I have never enjoyed the over the top game devs (rockstar...and so on) so I might not be seeing the worst of the problem because usually when a game resorts to sex or over the top behavior of any kind to sell its self its a sign for me not to waste my time.

In regard to women supporting games, a blog post is not support, I was talking something more organized like a group or even a web site that gives games a rating not a negative one either I would say a "girl friendly" rating for lack of a better term at this time. Also more from a female gamer perspective not a hardline feminist perspective, there may already be such a site that I have no knowledge of and something of that nature would be tough to get going without the usual hardline sexist harassment that's thrown around the internet these days(Which is sad)

And another point I'm wondering about; can games with over sexualized female characters still exist?
Games like Duke Nukem-forever for example that were most likely designed for men by men for the point of being tasteless because some guys just want to play a raunchy game to appeal to their inner 12 year old or caveman, or does every single game have to conform? Or are we just working towards a better balance?

Ive actually heard women complain about DN:F that actually bought and played the whole game and all I could really think is "what did you expect?" some games are just made for men and I don't know if many women know this but men need "their" things, as I assume women do also. Every game is not for everyone, even if publishers try to sell it that way, which is dumb. I consider games like DN:F a genre game, maybe even a cult game. Is that ok?

I think most of the male resistance comes from a point of fear of loosing all raunchiness or T&A in games all together and that most men would be OK with a better balance.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Actually the rise of circumcision in the US started largely it was believed it would reduce male libido and prevent masturbation. So, yeah, outside of the Jews and a subset of Muslims (groups for whom it is a religious obligation), it actually was a tool to control men's sexuality.

This is even more of a derail unfortunately than the previous derail that you were complaining about. =p

While this is partially true a more significant factor was the germ theory of disease making the public "germ phobic" and suspicious of dirt and bodily secretions. The penis became "dirty" by association with its function, and from this premise circumcision was seen as preventative medicine.

And since female genital mutilation almost universally involves the removal of at least the clitoris ("Type 1" is almost invariably Type 1b) and male circumcision never intentionally involves the removal of the glans my argument still stands. ie SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!

The original topic was decrying the misogyny of gamers and my point is that men equating male circumcision with FGM, and bring false-rape-accusation as proof that men somehow are just as descriminated against as women is in fact also misogyny. So I'm still on topic.

So, female circumcision is bad, what a shock.
But does that make male circumcision good? F*ck no.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but MALE genital mutilation is, tragically, very widespread in the US of A, whilst FEMALE genital mutilation is, rightfully so, I may add, regarded as barbaric.

But why is only the mutilation of FEMALE genital frowned upon, while baby boys are still subject to having important parts of their genitals cut off?
Sexism, that is why.
Sexism: definition:

Discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex.

Put that to the test:
Men getting their bits mutilated: A-OK.
Women getting their bits mutilated: HORRIBLE
The only difference? Their sex.
-> Discrimination based on a person's sex
-> SEXISM

This is the issue I have with this topic, since, imho, both, male and female genital mutilation, should be banned, and I don't see anything misogynist about that.
If anything, you constantly claiming that we should just get over it, because male genital mutilation isn't so bad, etc, IS incredibly sexist (misandrist).

Why should it be ok to cut sth. of men's genitals, but not of women's genitals?

Asking for male genital mutilation to be banned is not sexist at all, since it does not discriminate against women in any way, nor does it imply that female genital mutilation is somehow less of a crime.
It's actually equalist, since men are asking for a privilege women already have. Not getting parts of their genitals cut off, because society believes it to be a good idea.


And how is proof for men being discriminated against misogynist?
How is proving that ONE gender is being discriminated against hateful towards the other gender?
Because, going by your logic, this very topic must be incredibly misandrist then.

(Proof for discrimination against women is being delivered constantly, therefore this topic, must, by YOUR logic and your logic ONLY, be misandrist)

Thus, you telling us that we are misogynist for pointing out that men are discriminated against AS WELL, not exclusively, but in addition to women being discriminated against, is more than just a bit questionable.

Further proven by you calling the "grass-eater boys", who decided that the standards set for men in their society are not to their liking, "lacking the social skills necessary to get a girlfriend", implying that someone alluded to this being the WOMEN'S fault.
No one did so.
It was made clear from the very start that is is in fact the fault of the rigorous standards existing in the japanese society, which men are subject to, but something makes me believe that you do not have a clue about the underlying structures of the japanese society.

And your insistance, that women are being discriminated against (which they are) must make you a misandrist, again, employing the logic you used to mark us as misogynists.


"The implication":
Roll with me on this one:
Trekkie claims men are being discriminated against in society.
( false accusations of rape, etc...)
He provides sources to back up his claim.

Somehow this proves that he hates women?

I don't get it.

 

[ACman]

Roll with me on this one:
Trekkie claims men are being discriminated against in society.
( false accusations of rape, etc...)
He provides sources to back up his claim.

Somehow this proves that he hates women?

I don't get it.

Anybody who thinks that men are descriminated against more than women, blacks, latinos, gays lesbians, transgender people, or even the elderly needs to spend more time in reality.

The one or two times where women get preferential treatment over men does not outweigh the massive advantage that men have every other time.

 

[Trekkie]

DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN TO MEN?

Well yes actually, in places like the Congo and Uganda, homosexuality is illegal and publishable by death. At the same time if a man is raped by another man in those countries the society within then sees that man as gay for some stupid reason and this then means that they can be arrested and put to death because people said he was gay, because he got raped and male rape happens a lot in those countries especially with the civil wars, secret surveys by the UN of POW's showed that 80% of men captured where raped by their captives.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

see how that works?

And since female genital mutilation almost universally involves the removal of at least the clitoris ("Type 1" is almost invariably Type 1b) and male circumcision never intentionally involves the removal of the glans my argument still stands. ie SLIGHTLY DECREASED SENSATION IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO HAVING YOUR BITS CUT OFF!!!!
------

Yes the piece of skin involved has lots of nerve endings. NEWS FLASH. They don't cut off the entire end of your cock, it does't make sex painful, it doesn't eliminate sexual pleasure as female genital mutilation does for women, it isn't used as a tool to control men's sexuality.

Well actually i think you'll find that it doesn't because the clitoris has no other function apart from that of sexual gratification (which the glans dose BTW its shaped to make an airtight seal inside the vagina and the ridges are shaped to pull back any other mans sperm that might be inside) and you have already said that "all it means is that sex is less pleasurable, that's not a big deal"

Also like i said earlier there are very sensitive nerves (INSIDE) the vagina, especially on the first 3 inches. if women could only get sexual gratification through clitoral stimulation then why do women find it pleasurable to have a man, fingers or any other object inside them? removing the clitoris don't make sex unpleasant for women, however that doesn't make it right or not a big deal, your still cutting off a part of someone's body, just as with male circumcision.

Also the whole "removing the foreskin dose not make sex more difficult or uncomfortable" comment isn't true either. On of the reasons the foreskin retracts back is to enable a sliding motion inside the vagina for smoother, more comfortable motion when having sex. if you are uncircumcised you will also notice that the glans of the penis is also moist and slightly lubricated when you pull the foreskin back, this also helps with sex as it enables an easier penetration, just like how a women's vagina lubricates itself.

Actually the rise of circumcision in the US started largely it was believed it would reduce male libido and prevent masturbation. So, yeah, outside of the Jews and a subset of Muslims (groups for whom it is a religious obligation), it actually was a tool to control men's sexuality.

That to.

While this is partially true a more significant factor was the germ theory of disease making the public "germ phobic" and suspicious of dirt and bodily secretions. The penis became "dirty" by association with its function, and from this premise circumcision was seen as preventative medicine.

That's not social pressure? If you don't get circumcised then your dirty and likely diseased? not to mention that it has been proven that circumcision has no medical benefits and dose not prevent but can actually make a man more likely to catch something even when not having sex and the orifice has been unshielded.

my point is that men equating male circumcision with FGM, and bring false-rape-accusation as proof that men somehow are just as descriminated against as women is in fact also misogyny. So I'm still on topic.

Well men are discriminated against in society just as women are. If you want proof of that see my conversation with Hollyday for examples. Countering an argument is not Misogynous and neither would it be misandrist. However saying that we should shut up because it is misogynous for you to talk about mens rights, is misandry.

(yes two can play at the name calling and shaming tactics to)

The fact that you brought up the mens rights reddit and called me an MRA (and yes i am one and damn proud) as if its a bad thing, just brings me to conclude that you just another white knight who thinks that if a man says anything anywhere about the problems he is facing as a man, then he is just a misogynist and should just "MAN UP" and get on with it.

Men rape. If a tiny minority of us didn't an even tinyer minority of women wouldn't be able to falsely accuse us of it.

Okay this is something that really pisses me off. "if a tiny number of us didnt?" so are you saying that all men rape or that rape is something indicative to men? Rape is not common. It happens but it is not common. and before i get the whole ! in 3 or 1 in 4 or whatever the number will be this time around:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv10.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmHETvyk6eA

As you can see the FBI and other agencies combine the number of rape and sexual assault together to get their final figure. and as we all know, sexual assault is a hell of a lot more common than rape so that 1 in 3 bollocks is.... well.... a load of bollocks.

Not to mention that according to the FBI, standard assault is overwhelmingly more common than rape and sexual assault combined and how many times have you or anyone ells you know been assaulted, or mugged.

Plus, "if a tiny minority of men raped, a tinier minority of women would falsely report rape" in what world dose that make seance? a man doesn't need to do anything for a woman to be able to lie about him. In a world where disproving a rape allegation is almost impossible in today's courts and men are presumed to be guilty on accusation, what makes you think the number of false allegation will go down?

B) I don't know where he's going with Grass Eating boy's but he seems to be implying that it's women's fault that as small percentage of men lack the social skills to have a girlfriend.

First of its not that they lack the social skills, its that they don't want a GF because they cant be bothered with all the aggravation that comes with relationships. Second I didn't say it was women's fault, I said it was society around them that was at fault. The proper term for the grass eating boys is men going their own way because what they are is men who have had enough of society's overwhelming expectations of them to be successful, to be a good provider, to lay down their life when told to and to be an all around disposable appliance and this is especially true in Japan. You can only push an animal so far before they snap and say "NO! FUCK YOU!"

Plus its not a tiny minority of men its more life 30% to 40% in Japan and is rapidly growing around the world.

He's trying to justify his misogyny.

Actually i never said Misogyny was justifiable. all iv done is point out that men face a lot of discrimination in society just as women do and that its wrong to only focus one one of them.

"Feminism is the idea that we can fix gender inequality by only focusing on the problems of one of them" Not my words but good ones.

If anyone here has been sexist its you. because you my friend have at every turn concluded that we shouldn't care about the issues that men face and how they are discriminated against because women are more important. Hell you even tried to justify women falsely accusing a man of rape as okay because rape dose happen. Go read your first post to me and you'll see what i mean. Do the words "oh so women shouldn't report rape then?" when all i said was that false rape allegations are wrong mean anything to you?

yes there is misogyny in the world but there is also misandry. and if we only focus on one of them then that is in it self sexism. all i was doing was offering a counter argument. y'know the reason the comment section even exists in the first place. If we where only allowed to say "yeah i agree" then we might aswell not have them.

Saying that men are discriminated in society is not misogynistic. what it is is telling the truth and for you to come in and say "No you cant say that, saying that is misogynist" is misandric because you are not allowing us to say our side of the story and how society treats men aswell as women.

False rape allegations happen. they send a lot of innocent men and only men (Because according to the western worlds definition of rape, only a man can be a rapist. Even if a woman forces herself onto him.... And no an erection is not a choice) to prison around the world because disproving a rape allegation is incredibly difficult, especially in today's world.

My points are Valid and it seems the only person who doesn't think so is you and last time i checked you are not the arbiter of what is right and wrong. Not only that but if i am a Misogynist then what about Schadrach and Calibanbutcher? are they misogynists to? because they seems to agree with me (thanks again BTW)I am not a Misogynist and I doubt Schadrach and Calibanbutcher are either. From what i have seen the only sexist person here is you because all you have done is try to silence us by saying "your views are not welcome here" not to mention calling us names and insulting us and on top of that you have repeatedly implied that mens issues don't matter.

So why don't you stop calling us sexist and go take a look in the mirror!

Also, regarding the progression of how we got onto false rape allegations, Runic knight had it right,

Female tropes in games-----> Tropes in games in general ------> special pleading about women's issues in society ----> counter about male issues in society, including those relating to rape and circumcision.

EDIT:

You're missing the point. To be claim decrimination you must be at a disadvantage.

That is Total bullshit! hell even that is discrimination because your saying that men aren't Discriminated against because I feel they aren't disadvantaged enough. Please tell me, who is at a Disadvantage of Affirmative action like Gender quotas? Quotas that make it the law that there has to be a curtain number of women even if their is a man more qualified? is he not disadvantaged? because he is being denied a job because he is male. How is he not the disadvantaged party?

Discrimination is discrimination. It doesn't matter who you are!

Anybody who thinks that men are descriminated against more than women, blacks, latinos, gays lesbians, transgender people, or even the elderly needs to spend more time in reality.

see that what i mean. that is sexism, saying that mens needs don't matter because it doesn't happen as often (which it dose BTW)or are less damaging. you sir are a Misandrist.

and that ladies and gentleman will be my final word to him.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Roll with me on this one:
Trekkie claims men are being discriminated against in society.
( false accusations of rape, etc...)
He provides sources to back up his claim.

Somehow this proves that he hates women?

I don't get it.

Anybody who thinks that men are descriminated against more than women, blacks, latinos, gays lesbians, transgender people, or even the elderly needs to spend more time in reality.

The one or two times where women get preferential treatment over men does not outweigh the massive advantage that men have every other time.

So, blacks, latinos, gays, lesbiand, transgender people and the elderly are all, exclusively.
NOT MEN?
Because, if we are honest, the likeliness of gays being male is incredibly high, whilst it shoul be about 50:50 for the other examples mentioned, save for lesbians and women.

You got something mixed up there.
And the fact, that women are being discriminated against, wich no-one was disputing, makes it ok for men to be discriminated against?
Again, you are making shit up.
Noone claimed that men are discriminated against more than women, not even equally so, but rather that men are discriminated against as well.

Also, do you truly believe, that somehow one form of discrimination outwheighs the other?
If we get the right balance of discrimination, then we reach equality?
(advantages women have to not outwheigh advantages men have)
Should we not strive to make it so, that men and women have no advantages any more in any NON-biological field?

 

[ACman]

Roll with me on this one:
Trekkie claims men are being discriminated against in society.
( false accusations of rape, etc...)
He provides sources to back up his claim.

Somehow this proves that he hates women?

I don't get it.

Anybody who thinks that men are descriminated against more than women, blacks, latinos, gays lesbians, transgender people, or even the elderly needs to spend more time in reality.

The one or two times where women get preferential treatment over men does not outweigh the massive advantage that men have every other time.

So, blacks, latinos, gays, lesbiand, transgender people and the elderly are all, exclusively.
NOT MEN?

Well lesbians certainly aren't.

You're missing the point. To be claim decrimination you must be at a disadvantage.

Being a white, young, heterosexual, and male are all definite advantages over the alternatives.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Snip.

Snip.

Snip.

1. The lesbian part I corrected later on in the post.
2.
Disctimination:
Treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Nowhere does it say, anything about having to be constantly at a disadvantage. One instant of being discriminated against is enough to claim individual discrimination, several are enough to justify claiming a group is being discriminated against.

3. I am just getting tired of you being incapable of understanding written lanaguage.
So, I am going to make this as simple as possible for you:

1. Women are discriminated against.
2. Men are also discriminated against
3. Men face less discrimination against them than women do.
4. Does that make discrimination against men ok?
5. FUCK NO
6. Discrimination against men is a problem.
7. Discrimination aganst women is a problem.
8. Discrimination against a specific sex is a problem.
9. One form of discrimination does not outweigh another.

 

[minuialear]

I was talking something more organized like a group or even a web site that gives games a rating not a negative one either I would say a "girl friendly" rating for lack of a better term at this time.

I could swear I knew of a site that did something similar, but can't find it. So I agree.

something of that nature would be tough to get going without the usual hardline sexist harassment that's thrown around the internet these days(Which is sad)

I'd bet at the very least there would be people who don't take the site seriously because it doesn't do the same rating for every other demographic on the planet (similar to the reaction to this video). Probably also people saying that the site doesn't even need to exist if they can find positive examples to rate.

And another point I'm wondering about; can games with over sexualized female characters still exist?
Games like Duke Nukem-forever for example that were most likely designed for men by men for the point of being tasteless because some guys just want to play a raunchy game to appeal to their inner 12 year old or caveman, or does every single game have to conform? Or are we just working towards a better balance?

Definitely the latter. For the most part I think the fact that many AAA titles can be just as dangerous as DN:F in terms of how they handle sexuality/women/etc (and that the AAA titles tend to be more subtle about it and thus harder to discuss--see the new Lara Croft game) just makes it that much harder to pass over the more overtly terrible examples simply because they're genre games. There's nothing deep about DN:F and thus it's a lot easier to point to it and say "Hey, this is terrible!" than it is to discuss why the subtle issues with Lara Croft's reboot are problematic, and people go for what's easy.

Ive actually heard women complain about DN:F that actually bought and played the whole game and all I could really think is "what did you expect?" some games are just made for men and I don't know if many women know this but men need "their" things, as I assume women do also. Every game is not for everyone, even if publishers try to sell it that way, which is dumb. I consider games like DN:F a genre game, maybe even a cult game. Is that ok?

Yeah I agree that it's not great to complain about everything (especially when there are handfuls of games that do the same for heterosexual women--even if the ratio of those and those for men is skewed in men's favor). The issue should be whether MOST games are negative, not whether some genre games meet scholastic-quality requirements for character development. But the issue as described above probably exacerbates the complaining more than it would be otherwise.

Although, that said, there are a lot of things in games made "for men," that should be seen as unacceptable by men and women, genre game or not. That card game that had a Kickstarter awhile ago and included tentacle rape as a part of the game being such an example. (And for the purpose of providing equal examples, any game making light of women drugging and then having sex with guys should be an automatic problem, even if it's meant to fulfill a female sex fantasy or is made "for women." I don't know of an example of such a game off the top of my head.) For the majority of games this is probably not an issue, but there is a line that can be crossed.

I think most of the male resistance comes from a point of fear of loosing all raunchiness or T&A in games all together and that most men would be OK with a better balance.

I think this is true in theory, but I'm not sure if in practice and actual discussion in places like these forums that guys really indicate on the whole that they're really just looking to be thrown a bone and would otherwise like to see or be a part of extensive change elsewhere. Particularly because so many people don't seem to understand what the issue is in the first place, never mind understand why anything should be changed in games in general. I'd have to read through this thread before I say that officially, though.

Also, do you truly believe, that somehow one form of discrimination outwheighs the other?

When one form of discrimination systematically oppresses a demographic in a manner that causes them to be unable to function as well or achieve as much (on average) as their peers in a more privileged demographic, and another form of discrimination causes a detriment to a demographic, but not enough to affect its dominant status in society...then yes, one form is worse than another.

False rape charges don't cause men as a whole to be paid 60 cents for every dollar that women are paid, due to some conception that the men won't or can't do the job just as well and therefore don't deserve the same pay. Black men have historically been more likely to be falsely convicted (not just accused, but actually convicted) of rape than white men (you can look at the ratio of black men now being exonerated for false rape charges versus white men getting the same, and look at the history behind why they were convicted in the first place, to see this correlation and understand why it exists). Etc.

No one denies that discrimination in general is bad regardless of who faces it; but it's an insult to a minority demographic's struggles when your response to their discrimination is "Well, I have to deal with this other thing that doesn't actually affect my societal mobility but greatly inconveniences me sometimes; so we all have problems." If you're of the privileged demographic, your problems are not necessarily equivalent just because they are problems.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

First of all, which version of the wage gap are you using?
Since I found several, some of them indicating, that, on a whole, women make 0.28cent for every 1$ men make.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.html last paragraph.

Other than that, I bow my head to you.
I wrote rashly, without thinking enough about what I had written.
Chapeau

 

[SkellgrimOrDave]

Hate to divert the track from the discussion on circumcision and false rape accusation, but would anyone be interested if I did a video series about men and tropes in video games?

And no money needed, this stuff comes up for free.

Although I could follow in the footsteps of the great shouty woman and badmouth sucker punch for various baseless subjective arguments based on my own interpretations if that would net me more views.

 

[Suicidejim]

Well, I wonder if things have mellowed out in the 'Tropes vs. Women' thread-

Spoiler: OH JESUS CHRIST!

Also, how on Earth did we get to circumcision and rape? Are those now common game themes? What games are you guys playing exactly?

Surely this is a simple debate. Many games oversexualize women, or present cardboard characters, so we should work harder to demand and create more realistic and relatable female characters (and characters in general, for that matter). Sure, keep some of the oversexualized stuff if it works, just get some good characters in there too. There. Done.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Well, I wonder if things have mellowed out in the 'Tropes vs. Women' thread-

Spoiler: OH JESUS CHRIST!

Also, how on Earth did we get to circumcision and rape? Are those now common game themes? What games are you guys playing exactly?

Surely this is a simple debate. Many games oversexualize women, or present cardboard characters, so we should work harder to demand and create more realistic and relatable female characters (and characters in general, for that matter). Sure, keep some of the oversexualized stuff if it works, just get some good characters in there too. There. Done.

Even easier:
Games with good writing, generally speaking, have good female characters and good male characters.
Games with bad writing have bad female characters, based on stereotypes and sexualization and bad male characters, based on stereotypes and sexualization.

We need better written characters in general, not only female, but also male.
Ergo: We need more games with honest to god good writing.
Q.E.D.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

Hate to divert the track from the discussion on circumcision and false rape accusation, but would anyone be interested if I did a video series about men and tropes in video games?

And no money needed, this stuff comes up for free.

Although I could follow in the footsteps of the great shouty woman and badmouth sucker punch for various baseless subjective arguments based on my own interpretations if that would net me more views.

I would like that.