Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

It rarely does, when people are forced to realize things about themselves they'd rather not.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into?

I know FF has definitely touched on this, and there's a pretty significant body of scholarly work on the subject.

Really? Which video? I just went through what I'm pretty sure is her whole archive and don't remember her specifically mentioning anything. I must have missed one.

I was really asking more specifically about video games. I've certainly read quite a few scholarly pieces on male characters in literature and film, but I don't really see it come up in the gaming community and I feel like it probably should be talked about. Writing about the portrayal of men that I've seen also tends to take a very different approach from things I've read about the portrayal of women, and I often feel that it ends up lacking something as a result. I think the only piece on the subject I've ever really been satisfied with was written by a brilliant French woman (whose name I cannot remember, pronounce, or spell) about classical Greek pottery.

 

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

If I reveal to you that I have no idea who that is, will you hit me?

 

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

If I reveal to you that I have no idea who that is, will you hit me?

Nope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/CaptainHarlock
Just Read up. Its a very good series.

 

[WindKnight]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

 

[itsthesheppy]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

 

[MrMan999]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT! FOR YOUR RIGHT! TO PARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTY! Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

There is a joke to make there. Something about "You gotta fight! For your rights! To maaaaaaanly!" But better. 'Cause I suck at jokes.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT! FOR YOUR RIGHT! TO PARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTY! Sorry. Couldn't resist.

o.o

*looks at your post*

*looks at my post*

Get out of my head!

 

[MrMan999]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT! FOR YOUR RIGHT! TO PARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTY! Sorry. Couldn't resist.

o.o

*looks at your post*

*looks at my post*

Get out of my head!

I love hiveminds.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, is what you're saying here that male characters have it just as bad because they are always depicted as selfless heroes who, regardless of their personal struggles, work for the greater good and save the day? Are you really saying that's just as bad as female characters, who typically serve as either window dressing or victims, or both?

I don't know about "equally bad". I do not know of a scale to measure an issue like this, I'm not sure exactly what "bad" is in this context (bad writing? bad for people's self-image? encouraging bad behaviors?). I'm not even sure if there's any real meaning to measuring "bad" in this situation (it isn't concrete in the way the wage gap or criminal sentencing patterns are, after all) or if what we're looking at are really two separate issues at all.

I would, however, argue that the "selfless hero" persona you describe exists as part of a traditional male identity in which self-worth is defined solely by utility to others. I think that this idea encourages harmful behavior in men, including behaviors which are also harmful to women, and represents a real barrier to self actualization. I also think that the fact that our society sees these traditionally masculine traits as "positive" while looking down on traditionally female traits (which include a lot of things I would like to see male characters display more of) is just another part of the problem.

It doesn't strike you a perhaps reaching a bit far to say that males always being portrayed a selfless heroes who rise to the occasion and bail other people out, at great personal risk, through violent means or not, is a negative stereotype? That depicting rampant altruism actually hurts the male identity?

That's like saying "Depicting men as always being charitable has a negative effect, because it reduces my ability to determine whether or not I want to be charitable." I think you may be reaching; more to the point, I think this may be the most tortured example of a 'positive stereotype that's actually negative' I've ever seen. You learn something new every day.

I said it could be harmful, not that it was necessarily a negative stereotype. It reinforces the idea that "being a man" means always putting aside your own problems and hiding your vulnerabilities for the sake of others. That's not a healthy thing to build an identity around. I certainly think it's an image which contributes to the way any sign of "weakness" is demonized.

If you want negative stereotypes of men in video games, I would point you to the grunting, steroid fueled caricatures defined entirely by their rage (the only emotion they ever display) and able to interact with the world around them only by means of violence. I don't think I need to tell you how prevalent those are in games, and I don't think I need to spell out how harmful presenting these psychotic non-characters as idealized images of masculinity is for everyone.

Are men always depicted as charitable? I really do not see that as being the case. In any event, wouldn't that example be the same as people claiming that all women are nurturing or kind (and all the other bits of pedestalization the romantics love shoving down our throats)? Don't we say that those things are harmful to women? Why would the same thing not be equally harmful if done to men?

Once again, I am not trying to engage in one-upsmanship or to silence anyone talking about the negative portrayals of women in games (which are many and varied). I just think this might be something we should also be talking about, and I am pointing out that I do not see people doing that.

 

[PirateRose]

The problem is video games tend to be set up in a negative white male fantasy world because that is the audience that has dominated till recent years. Which means games have super macho, tough white male leads and a bunch of women(mostly white) fitting into limited male sexual fantasies. Or the women are just generally what men want women to be like(they never poop) as opposed to what women really are(capable of pooping and peeing in the toilet at the same time).

The video game audiences though is changing, it's changing quickly because there is a increasing number of various people becoming interested. Other races, women, and homosexuals.

The fans demand for male homosexual relationships instead of just lesbian relationships in Mass Effect 3 shows this. Though the fact it's incredibly hard to play a straight female Shepard in ME3 stepped the game into another wrong direction.

The response to the Hitman trailer shows a change in the audience, the response isn't coming from the usual news sources trying to claim video games are ruining society. It came from the gaming audience.

Then you have non-white male lead faces in Prototype 2 and in Assassins Creed III. Then in Assassins Creed liberation, a black female protagonist(let's just hope she's not a part time prostitute or something).

The feminist frequency chick is just aiming at one problem when the whole game industry has social issues that everyone wants to get rid of.

However, I am enjoying the fact she's brought on the attention of so many jerks who would like nothing to change. One of those comments said that men play video games to escape the real world, they don't need political correct BS in them to remind them of the real world.

Well sweetheart, I want to play video games to escape the real world too. I don't want to be reminded that men think I'm weak, defenseless, and stupid, or a sex toy.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into?

I know FF has definitely touched on this, and there's a pretty significant body of scholarly work on the subject.

Really? Which video? I just went through what I'm pretty sure is her whole archive and don't remember her specifically mentioning anything. I must have missed one.

I'm pretty sure it comes up in the Lego one, for instance - basically she's not a fan of the way the portrayal of male characters valorizes violence, or the way men are discouraged from showing emotions, etc.

I was really asking more specifically about video games. I've certainly read quite a few scholarly pieces on male characters in literature and film, but I don't really see it come up in the gaming community and I feel like it probably should be talked about.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see something like this. I've seen/heard quite a few takes on the way that many video games are essentially about killing stuff, but none that I know of that specifically relate this to the way games portray masculinity.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh no, abort thread! If we keep encouraging people to exercise critical thinking about their own viewpoint, some jimmies might get rustled!

 

[Fappy]

Well this IS Youtube so I can't say this is at all surprising. It's times like these that I wish the words "game" and "community" could never be used in the same sentence. I don't like being associated with ass-hats.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, is what you're saying here that male characters have it just as bad because they are always depicted as selfless heroes who, regardless of their personal struggles, work for the greater good and save the day? Are you really saying that's just as bad as female characters, who typically serve as either window dressing or victims, or both?

I don't know about "equally bad". I do not know of a scale to measure an issue like this, I'm not sure exactly what "bad" is in this context (bad writing? bad for people's self-image? encouraging bad behaviors?). I'm not even sure if there's any real meaning to measuring "bad" in this situation (it isn't concrete in the way the wage gap or criminal sentencing patterns are, after all) or if what we're looking at are really two separate issues at all.

I would, however, argue that the "selfless hero" persona you describe exists as part of a traditional male identity in which self-worth is defined solely by utility to others. I think that this idea encourages harmful behavior in men, including behaviors which are also harmful to women, and represents a real barrier to self actualization. I also think that the fact that our society sees these traditionally masculine traits as "positive" while looking down on traditionally female traits (which include a lot of things I would like to see male characters display more of) is just another part of the problem.

It doesn't strike you a perhaps reaching a bit far to say that males always being portrayed a selfless heroes who rise to the occasion and bail other people out, at great personal risk, through violent means or not, is a negative stereotype? That depicting rampant altruism actually hurts the male identity?

That's like saying "Depicting men as always being charitable has a negative effect, because it reduces my ability to determine whether or not I want to be charitable." I think you may be reaching; more to the point, I think this may be the most tortured example of a 'positive stereotype that's actually negative' I've ever seen. You learn something new every day.

I said it could be harmful, not that it was necessarily a negative stereotype. It reinforces the idea that "being a man" means always putting aside your own problems and hiding your vulnerabilities for the sake of others. That's not a healthy thing to build an identity around. I certainly think it's an image which contributes to the way any sign of "weakness" is demonized.

If you want negative stereotypes of men in video games, I would point you to the grunting, steroid fueled caricatures defined entirely by their rage (the only emotion they ever display) and able to interact with the world around them only by means of violence. I don't think I need to tell you how prevalent those are in games, and I don't think I need to spell out how harmful presenting these psychotic non-characters as idealized images of masculinity is for everyone.

Are men always depicted as charitable? I really do not see that as being the case. In any event, wouldn't that example be the same as people claiming that all women are nurturing or kind (and all the other bits of pedestalization the romantics love shoving down our throats)? Don't we say that those things are harmful to women? Why would the same thing not be equally harmful if done to men?

Once again, I am not trying to engage in one-upsmanship or to silence anyone talking about the negative portrayals of women in games (which are many and varied). I just think this might be something we should also be talking about, and I am pointing out that I do not see people doing that.

If you want that conversation to happen, then spark it. It's a very large internet out there, and I don't think we're in any danger of reaching a data load limit on the Escapist forums. Start one. In fact, I'll even join in, because I don't *disagree* with you. Not... entirely.

Portraying men as grunting violence factories isn't great, no. But it's worth keeping aware that they are also depicted as being pro-active hero types who are, for all their grunting and juicing, saving the day at great personal risk. While they tend to be one-dimensional, boring, lame, uninspired, and generally unlikable for many reasons, we would be remiss not to point out that on the whole, it could be worse. They could be token characters who exist only to be victims or objects of desire, and frequently both.

Bringing it up in this conversation, however, serves to distract. It makes you come across as someone who's uncomfortable talking about Their issues, and who would be more comfortable talking about Your issues. Racism is still an issue. Homophobia is an issue. Nationalism is an issue. Pollution is an issue. There are millions of issues. Right now, in this thread, we're talking about a female pop-culture commentator who is being harassed; someone who comes in and says "But why aren't we talking about the endangered snow owl?!" comes across as someone who has a problem perhaps not so much with snow owls, but who would rather *not* be talking about anti-female sexism, and seeks instead to talk about something, anything, else.

What you're suggesting is an issue. However, bringing it up in this thread doesn't serve the conversation very much, except to passively say that there could be other things *you'd* rather be talking about. The question then begs: why do you think that's more important than this?

 

[MrMan999]

The problem is video games tend to be set up in a negative white male fantasy world because that is the audience that has dominated till recent years. Which means games have super macho, tough white male leads and a bunch of women(mostly white) fitting into limited male sexual fantasies. Or the women are just generally what men want women to be like(they never poop) as opposed to what women really are(capable of pooping and peeing in the toilet at the same time).

The video game audiences though is changing, it's changing quickly because there is a increasing number of various people becoming interested. Other races, women, and homosexuals.

The fans demand for male homosexual relationships instead of just lesbian relationships in Mass Effect 3 shows this. Though the fact it's incredibly hard to play a straight female Shepard in ME3 stepped the game into another wrong direction.

The response to the Hitman trailer shows a change in the audience, the response isn't coming from the usual news sources trying to claim video games are ruining society. It came from the gaming audience.

Then you have non-white male lead faces in Prototype 2 and in Assassins Creed III. Then in Assassins Creed liberation, a black female protagonist(let's just hope she's not a part time prostitute or something).

The feminist frequency chick is just aiming at one problem when the whole game industry has social issues that everyone wants to get rid of.

However, I am enjoying the fact she's brought on the attention of so many jerks who would like nothing to change. One of those comments said that men play video games to escape the real world, they don't need political correct BS in them to remind them of the real world.

Well sweetheart, I want to play video games to escape the real world too. I don't want to be reminded that men think I'm weak, defenseless, and stupid, or a sex toy.

Fun fact, Homosexual relationships in videogames is not new. Ultima Seven did it way back in 1992.

Also, Hitman has always had controversial advertisements. Honestly I found the nun ad hilarious. Its just so over the top that I have no idea how anyone could take it seriously.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I like this Tim Minchin bit on sexism. The sexism bit starts at about 6:40.