Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[SpectacularWebHead]

Great. Once again, the internet provides a reason for me to be ashamed of my penis.
Why are there still men incapable of understanding women are also people? And then the rest of us are assosciated with them. Wonderful, thanks misognyism.

I can't really summarise this with anything better than Ugh.
Actually "Fuck those guys" is a close second.

 

[cieply]

Oh "gaming community".

You're just upset because no-one touches your penis, aren't you?

Oh, you preson sitting on a high horse.

I've seen some of her videos and they are atrocious, feminist pseudo intellectual bile that spews out of your monitor. I had enough clarity of mind not to leave her a comment (although I'm not sure, I was pretty mad at that time) but trust me, she IS infuriating.

Obviously, responses like ones she gets are just as bad, but that doesn't make her any less better.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

 

[itsthesheppy]

"so you're a bolshevik feminist jewess that hates White people and does website design for Tim Wise extremist platform and you expect to be taken seriously when you're "critique-ing" video games," writes charming YouTube user, Haploguy. [http://www.youtube.com/user/haploguy]

Anyone who takes this seriously and not as some guy on /b/ posting for a few giggles is a moron. I fucking hate all these fucking people taking the fucking internet so fucking seriously. Jesus fuck, can't a man write something as a fucking joke if it offends your overly sensitive fucking minds?
I'm staying neutral on the Misogynistic stuff.

You cannot just sweep these comments under the table because "Oh, they're just youtube comments, those are always terrible, no harm done, just ignore them. They're just trolls."

These aren't bots, guys. These comments don't just manifest out of the cosmic ether. They form independently in the brains of actual human beings who type them out and post them. I imagine you could count the number of people posting these comments who don't actually believe a word of what they are saying on one hand. Or no hands.

Every single one of those comments manifested from the brain of an individual who in whole or in part believes what they are saying is either funny or poignant, and either way it represents a cancer on society. You cannot just ignore these people, because they pay taxes, they vote, they interact with other humans beings daily and like it or not, they have an equal say in our societal makeup that you do.

They are participating in the conversation. The things they are saying are, in my opinion, terrible and worthy only of the most focused and withering disdain. But if you see comments like that and you don't push back, it is the same as tacitly endorsing them. Civilization is naught but the amalgamation on all of our opinions, and in some cases those opinions are reached via two teams pushing the needle one direction or another. If you believe that women should be treated equally, and if you believe they should be free of sexual and sexist harassment, but do *nothing*, then you are passively supporting the negative side. Because I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT more of them than there are of us.

If someone says "women should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches" and you do NOT respond, then congratulations, you are stamping your endorsement on what they said. I don't push back when people say that puppies are adorable. I don't push back if people say that pollution is bad for the planet. I don't push back when people say 'let's all have free ice cream!'. Because I support these things. But when someone, anyone, trolling or not, internet or not, attacks and harasses anyone because of their gender or sexual orientation or so on, I will push back because I don't want that stuff in the society I want to live in.

 

[mad825]

The project itself is sexist.

Yes, females are more commonly exploited but how many male muscle heads do we see? Why is the "documentary" about females being hosted by just a female from a female's perspective representing females?

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Exactly. The comments, for the most part, don't discuss whether or not her point of view is valid, or whether the documentary would be worthwhile, they just come out swinging about how she's a Jew that needs a good dicking...except she's a lesbian and the commenters wouldn't fuck her, anyway.

Disagreeing with her point of view is fine, as is thinking her Kickstarter is a lousy idea. This isn't about whether or not her point of view is correct, it's about the sheer level of vitriol being directed at her. People frequently claim there's no sexism in gaming communities...well, take a look, gang. It's out there and it's ugly. Just saying "we knew this would happen" and shrugging it off isn't enough. Maybe some readers aren't "learning anything" because they're aware this goes on, but perhaps we educate some who truly didn't know it got this bad.

But there's a deeper problem we encounter when faced with this. Even those of us that listen to the disparity that exists between gender portrayal with the mind to change things have very little effect against the tsunami of ignorant bile that these people project. We can support the projects, yes, and spread awareness, and we can try and instruct others that the portrayal of one of the walking meat slabs that are the varied space marines and foot soldiers of popular gaming are not an equivalent set of problems as bikini-clad martial artists, and show them that even assuming so is a fallacy, but like a tsunami, it's hard to fight, it's easiest to board up, wait until the worst is over, and start recovering. We can ignore it, and filter out the parts of the community that are reasonable and those that are jeering because they find jeers to be a form of communication, but the insipid shouting of these asshats is exponentially louder than our discourse asking what can be done to rectify this inequality. Quite simply, we don't know how to fight it, as a community. Game devs can help more than we can, but foregoing a character creation sheet ripped from TVTropes is apparently something hard to do, and it's gonna take more than just a couple of competent, goal-oriented, real female characters to get this ball rolling. As a society, we're not good at actually confronting problems, and that gets even more compounded in communities like ours, one build around consequence-free anonymity. Right now, our only recourse is ignoring it, turning a blind eye, and that's not how to stop unwanted behavior. Unfortunately, we don't have many other feasible ways to stifle this behavior.

You misunderstand my point. I don't really care one way or the other if you support the project - ultimately, target of the harassment isn't the point. You do have the ability to impact the behavior. I'm not talking about the ability to get characters made different, I mean the ability to get people to behave more like rational human beings. When you see someone acting like this - say something. Call them out. Make it known that this kind of bile is unacceptable. Whether or not you believe in the project, you surely don't support people acting this way - that's what news posts like this are meant to illustrate.

There was a panel at PAX about online harassment, and as people filed in, a number of messages sent over Xbox Live were displayed in a slide show on the front screen. Very similar comments to the ones featured here. After the very large crowd was assembled, the moderator asked how many people were surprised to learn that things got said. About a third of the people in the room raised their hands. So there are still people out there who don't know that this kind of abject hatred happens. The more people who are aware of it, the more who are ready and able to say "No. You don't get to treat people like that."

This isn't about changing the industry, or videogame characters. This is about demanding that people be treated like people, even when you disagree with them.

 

[MrMan999]

Honestly, despite the trolling, there is some legitimate critisism to be had here. First off, you can make the videos for free. You don't need to abuse Kickstarter to make something that costs nothing to make. I can understand wanting to make a buck, but theres a line that has been crossed somewhere
Second, why is it only videogames that are subjected to this type of thing? You don't see youtube documentaries called "Tropes vs Women in film" or "Tropes vs Women in books". Is it because videogames are the new kid on the block? I just feel that videogames are unfairly subjected to this type of scrutiny when books, movies and music have used the same female archetypes for decades if not centuries.
Third, There are a lot of compelling female characters in videogames. You just have to know where to look. (I.E. Alyx Vance from Half Life, Hammer from Fable 2, Heather Mason from Silent Hill 3)
Fourth, whats wrong with a little cheesecake in videogames now and again? Its not like its hurting anyone. Although I will admit that sometimes the fanservice can get to the point where it stops being sexy and just becomes disturbing.

Anyway, thats my opinion on the matter.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

And yet the Smurfette principle applies to movies like Inception... Do you actually know what the Smurfette principle is?

Yes and it's an inane idea. Here, do this for me, look up a dozen movies or shows designed for women--you know, chick flicks, romantic comedies, reality TV. Count the number of women in them. Now count the number of men. Was there any men? Count the number of them that aren't handsome, toned, charming and desirable.

Why is this news to anyone? Guys like to hang out with guys. Girls like to hang out with girls. By the age of about six, with no outside influence, children begin to separate themselves by gender and play almost solely with those of their own sex.

Some women spend so much time playing victim and talking about their sex, they forget that we're all human. Feminists can be the most sexist people on the planet; no one else goes out of their way to identify their gender and talk about it as much as feminists. So how about we all care less about who's a man and who's woman, and start seeing each other as human.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

 

[MrMan999]

"so you're a bolshevik feminist jewess that hates White people and does website design for Tim Wise extremist platform and you expect to be taken seriously when you're "critique-ing" video games," writes charming YouTube user, Haploguy. [http://www.youtube.com/user/haploguy]

Anyone who takes this seriously and not as some guy on /b/ posting for a few giggles is a moron. I fucking hate all these fucking people taking the fucking internet so fucking seriously. Jesus fuck, can't a man write something as a fucking joke if it offends your overly sensitive fucking minds?
I'm staying neutral on the Misogynistic stuff.

You cannot just sweep these comments under the table because "Oh, they're just youtube comments, those are always terrible, no harm done, just ignore them. They're just trolls."

These aren't bots, guys. These comments don't just manifest out of the cosmic ether. They form independently in the brains of actual human beings who type them out and post them. I imagine you could count the number of people posting these comments who don't actually believe a word of what they are saying on one hand. Or no hands.

Every single one of those comments manifested from the brain of an individual who in whole or in part believes what they are saying is either funny or poignant, and either way it represents a cancer on society. You cannot just ignore these people, because they pay taxes, they vote, they interact with other humans beings daily and like it or not, they have an equal say in our societal makeup that you do.

They are participating in the conversation. The things they are saying are, in my opinion, terrible and worthy only of the most focused and withering disdain. But if you see comments like that and you don't push back, it is the same as tacitly endorsing them. Civilization is naught but the amalgamation on all of our opinions, and in some cases those opinions are reached via two teams pushing the needle one direction or another. If you believe that women should be treated equally, and if you believe they should be free of sexual and sexist harassment, but do *nothing*, then you are passively supporting the negative side. Because I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT more of them than there are of us.

If someone says "women should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches" and you do NOT respond, then congratulations, you are stamping your endorsement on what they said. I don't push back when people say that puppies are adorable. I don't push back if people say that pollution is bad for the planet. I don't push back when people say 'let's all have free ice cream!'. Because I support these things. But when someone, anyone, trolling or not, internet or not, attacks and harasses anyone because of their gender or sexual orientation or so on, I will push back because I don't want that stuff in the society I want to live in.

Trolls thrive of attention good sir. By pushing back against them you are giving them that attention. If you ignore them they will eventually get bored and move on to something else to troll.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Second, why is it only videogames that are subjected to this type of thing? You don't see youtube documentaries called "Tropes vs Women in film" or "Tropes vs Women in books". Is it because videogames are the new kid on the block?

She has something like a dozen films on her youtube channel addressing tropes found specifically in films. Like, a bunch. She even identifies the specific tropes and has episodes dedicated to them, and cites specific examples in movies, even going so far as to identify specific movies in question. The video game angle is only the latest one she wants to investigate.

It helps to do even the most basic amount of research before declaring something like that. Otherwise you might make silly mistakes like this one.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

 

[MrMan999]

Second, why is it only videogames that are subjected to this type of thing? You don't see youtube documentaries called "Tropes vs Women in film" or "Tropes vs Women in books". Is it because videogames are the new kid on the block?

She has something like a dozen films on her youtube channel addressing tropes found specifically in films. Like, a bunch. She even identifies the specific tropes and has episodes dedicated to them, and cites specific examples in movies, even going so far as to identify specific movies in question. The video game angle is only the latest one she wants to investigate.

It helps to do even the most basic amount of research before declaring something like that. Otherwise you might make silly mistakes like this one.

Ah. I apologize for that mistake. I'll be sure to not make an oversight like that in the future. My point still stands though.

 

[itsthesheppy]

"so you're a bolshevik feminist jewess that hates White people and does website design for Tim Wise extremist platform and you expect to be taken seriously when you're "critique-ing" video games," writes charming YouTube user, Haploguy. [http://www.youtube.com/user/haploguy]

Anyone who takes this seriously and not as some guy on /b/ posting for a few giggles is a moron. I fucking hate all these fucking people taking the fucking internet so fucking seriously. Jesus fuck, can't a man write something as a fucking joke if it offends your overly sensitive fucking minds?
I'm staying neutral on the Misogynistic stuff.

You cannot just sweep these comments under the table because "Oh, they're just youtube comments, those are always terrible, no harm done, just ignore them. They're just trolls."

These aren't bots, guys. These comments don't just manifest out of the cosmic ether. They form independently in the brains of actual human beings who type them out and post them. I imagine you could count the number of people posting these comments who don't actually believe a word of what they are saying on one hand. Or no hands.

Every single one of those comments manifested from the brain of an individual who in whole or in part believes what they are saying is either funny or poignant, and either way it represents a cancer on society. You cannot just ignore these people, because they pay taxes, they vote, they interact with other humans beings daily and like it or not, they have an equal say in our societal makeup that you do.

They are participating in the conversation. The things they are saying are, in my opinion, terrible and worthy only of the most focused and withering disdain. But if you see comments like that and you don't push back, it is the same as tacitly endorsing them. Civilization is naught but the amalgamation on all of our opinions, and in some cases those opinions are reached via two teams pushing the needle one direction or another. If you believe that women should be treated equally, and if you believe they should be free of sexual and sexist harassment, but do *nothing*, then you are passively supporting the negative side. Because I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT more of them than there are of us.

If someone says "women should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches" and you do NOT respond, then congratulations, you are stamping your endorsement on what they said. I don't push back when people say that puppies are adorable. I don't push back if people say that pollution is bad for the planet. I don't push back when people say 'let's all have free ice cream!'. Because I support these things. But when someone, anyone, trolling or not, internet or not, attacks and harasses anyone because of their gender or sexual orientation or so on, I will push back because I don't want that stuff in the society I want to live in.

Trolls thrive of attention good sir. By pushing back against them you are giving them that attention. If you ignore them they will eventually get bored and move on to something else to troll.

But in the meantime, passive observers will note that nobody bothers to oppose them. If viking raiders attack my village and get no resistance, they don't get bored and go home and stop being vikings. They just go right on raiding villages.

It's not like these commentors go "Aw man, being sexist is boring, because all I get when I post sexist stuff online is five million people all posting the same things I said. Being in this very inclusive crowd who agree with me all the time is boring; I think I'm going to switch gears and be nice to people instead."

The 'ignore them and they go away' principle rarely works and does nothing to make this a better society to live in; more to the point it has the opposite effect, of tacitly endorsing people who have these opinions.

This isn't just 'trolling'. This is sexist harassment and it needs to stop, and ignoring it will not accomplish that goal.

 

[Smeatza]

She's on almost £60,000 now.
I wonder what car she'll buy.

 

[MrMan999]

"so you're a bolshevik feminist jewess that hates White people and does website design for Tim Wise extremist platform and you expect to be taken seriously when you're "critique-ing" video games," writes charming YouTube user, Haploguy. [http://www.youtube.com/user/haploguy]

Anyone who takes this seriously and not as some guy on /b/ posting for a few giggles is a moron. I fucking hate all these fucking people taking the fucking internet so fucking seriously. Jesus fuck, can't a man write something as a fucking joke if it offends your overly sensitive fucking minds?
I'm staying neutral on the Misogynistic stuff.

You cannot just sweep these comments under the table because "Oh, they're just youtube comments, those are always terrible, no harm done, just ignore them. They're just trolls."

These aren't bots, guys. These comments don't just manifest out of the cosmic ether. They form independently in the brains of actual human beings who type them out and post them. I imagine you could count the number of people posting these comments who don't actually believe a word of what they are saying on one hand. Or no hands.

Every single one of those comments manifested from the brain of an individual who in whole or in part believes what they are saying is either funny or poignant, and either way it represents a cancer on society. You cannot just ignore these people, because they pay taxes, they vote, they interact with other humans beings daily and like it or not, they have an equal say in our societal makeup that you do.

They are participating in the conversation. The things they are saying are, in my opinion, terrible and worthy only of the most focused and withering disdain. But if you see comments like that and you don't push back, it is the same as tacitly endorsing them. Civilization is naught but the amalgamation on all of our opinions, and in some cases those opinions are reached via two teams pushing the needle one direction or another. If you believe that women should be treated equally, and if you believe they should be free of sexual and sexist harassment, but do *nothing*, then you are passively supporting the negative side. Because I hate to break it to you, but there are a LOT more of them than there are of us.

If someone says "women should be in the kitchen making me sandwiches" and you do NOT respond, then congratulations, you are stamping your endorsement on what they said. I don't push back when people say that puppies are adorable. I don't push back if people say that pollution is bad for the planet. I don't push back when people say 'let's all have free ice cream!'. Because I support these things. But when someone, anyone, trolling or not, internet or not, attacks and harasses anyone because of their gender or sexual orientation or so on, I will push back because I don't want that stuff in the society I want to live in.

Trolls thrive of attention good sir. By pushing back against them you are giving them that attention. If you ignore them they will eventually get bored and move on to something else to troll.

But in the meantime, passive observers will note that nobody bothers to oppose them. If viking raiders attack my village and get no resistance, they don't get bored and go home and stop being vikings. They just go right on raiding villages.

It's not like these commentors go "Aw man, being sexist is boring, because all I get when I post sexist stuff online is five million people all posting the same things I said. Being in this very inclusive crowd who agree with me all the time is boring; I think I'm going to switch gears and be nice to people instead."

The 'ignore them and they go away' principle rarely works and does nothing to make this a better society to live in; more to the point it has the opposite effect, of tacitly endorsing people who have these opinions.

This isn't just 'trolling'. This is sexist harassment and it needs to stop, and ignoring it will not accomplish that goal.

The viking analogy falls apart because theres a difference between a viking raiding party threatening you and an internet tough guy (Unless you play Ultima Online ). Honestly I believe that most of the commentators are doing it to get a rise out of people. Just report their posts and move on.

 

[WanderingFool]

Having had some time to slepp on this, I came back to this thread and realised something, something that quite a few people have already pointed out. She was asking for a kickstarted to make this documentory, when at least two groups, Movie Bob and Extra Credits, have done the same thing for free. I cant remember Extra Credits video, but Bob had two Game Overthinkers dedicated to this, one was showing all the bad aspects, and the other showing all the good aspects of female characters in games.

Also, another thought, why doesnt she go after Anime? Thats probably as big of offender, if not bigger, than videogames.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.