Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

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PiCroft

He who waits behind the wall
Mar 12, 2009
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Smeatza said:
What is the point in the videos if not educate and appeal to those who currently see sexist ideals as acceptable? Or make those that unintentionally support sexist ideals aware that they are doing so?
If their sole purpose is just a big pat on the back for those who are against sexism then it seems like an exercise in futility to me.
As I've said before, if someone won't watch a video because it contradicts what they want to believe, that isn't the problem of the video maker.

Also, as I've said before, the world isn't divided into ardent sexists who won't watch it and fervent anti-sexists who will. That isn't how the world or viewership or documentaries work. I have no idea why you are convinced there is literally not one person who will watch it who isn't already decided one way or the other. She (the documentary maker) has stated her previous materials have been used by parents, in classrooms and by charities and other organizations to discuss gender issues, this will be no different only hopefully with higher production values and more solid research.
 

minuialear

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Jun 15, 2010
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Smeatza said:
So whenever I see a project like this, where a bias is apparent from the word go, and a single type of media is singled out from all others. The lost potential does disappoint me.
Staying within one medium is a perfectly reasonable way to want to focus a discussion on a broader topic. Otherwise the discussion becomes too broad for the average person to keep the overarching point in mind (an issue that's even a problem when focusing on just video games, due to their variety; but at least keeping it to one medium limits that somewhat). Considering this is a very complex issue, breaking it up and examining cross-sections, rather than trying to examine the entirety of human existence, is much more effective at driving one's points across.

Plus, the video game community as a whole (i.e., generally, not entirely) tends to be a lot less open to gender discussions that communities for other media (in part because it's a lot younger and hasn't had equal time to deal with the issue), so it makes sense to target the video game community for this particular phenomenon, rather than to target books or films.

Smilomaniac said:
The other ting is that any man who's had a girlfriend or wife, knows the feeling of them encroaching on your territory, your place of silence and focus. When girls like Anita make an accusing video like that, men take it personally, because it's another one of those annoying cries for attention(Not saying it is, I'm saying it LOOKS like it).
If you feel as though your significant other's desire to share hobbies with you is "enroaching on your territory," that says something about you more than it says about him/her.

Also based on your ridiculous amount of bias, I don't think you're qualified to indicate why men take it personally. That is the most ridiculous claim I've ever seen.
 

JerrytheBullfrog

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Dec 30, 2009
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Blablahb said:
Well, what's there to say? People are sick and tired of extremist feminists making up myths about oppression and conspiracies against women, just to prevent having to acknowledge the unspeakable, namely that women themselves make their role, accept their role themselves, and actively work to reinforce that 'role' constantly.

Or in short: doing whatever the radical feminists are angry about, to themselves.
LiquidGrape said:
On a related note, ironically enough, modern feminism believes that men are more than capable of transcending these institutionalised roles to which they are expected to adhere. Feminism actually acknowledges the agency of men, and their status as equals.
And yet feminism is accused of misandry.
Which is extremely, shockingly dumb a point of view because the enemy is not 'the men', but religion. It's religion which preaches taboo on all sex and the blame of any sexual transgression with women. It's also religion which teaches women are inferior, so probably not as entitled to the integrity of their body as men.

Quite frankly, merely speaking of feminist theories of 'rape culture' is deeply offensive and rude. You're insulting half the human population, while ignoring the real problem. I myself have uncovered sexual abuse on two occasions (yay for growing up in retarded Christian villages) and the shit that has cost me over the course of years... It cost so very much, money, time, emotionally... And in comes some twat who claims that I'm part of a 'rape culture' because of my gender.

Let me be short about that: Anyone who believes in 'rape culture' theories lacks any form of decency, and should be ignored.

Less rant'ish: I've always wondered what it is why feminists twist and bend themselves into such corners to find a culprit while they don't dare to attack religion at all, while it's no doubt their main enemy.
Wow, someone else who doesn't understand rape culture.

1.) Being a guy does not make you part of rape culture by default. Your actions do. Many guys are part of rape culture. Many make a conscious effort to not be.

2.) Women can perpetuate rape culture as well. Again, rape culture is not just "all men create rape culture," it's an intersecting dynamic of how society as a whole acts.

3.) Rape (as in, actual rape, not just rape culture) is overwhelmingly performed by men (90+%) against women.

4.) What feminists do you know? There are plenty of atheist feminists. I'd even say that MOST feminists acknowledge that religious systems are one of the key proponents of patriarchy. Since, well, they are.

That you somehow believes feminists don't attack religion and that you believe that rape culture is just a male thing shows that you don't understand jack shit about the topic, sorry. Educate yourself.
 

RabbidKuriboh

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Sep 19, 2010
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Evan Waters said:
RabbidKuriboh said:
ugh feminism was relevant when women didn't have civil rights equal to men,now that they do it isn't
Do they? When did this happen?

There's not even an equivalent of the Civil Rights Act for women. The Equal Rights Amendment was passed but never ratified.
Not an American,sorry in my country they do.

And please specify what exactly women aren't allowed to do in the states that makes them 2nd class citzens?
 

Helmholtz Watson

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JerrytheBullfrog said:
Because like most (all?) scientific departments, they tend to focus exclusively on the contributions of male scientists, with any work by women brushed under the table. How many times do you learn about Ada Lovelace in CompSci?
I didn't ask you about compsci, I asked you about astrophysics and geology. Tell me how the study of rocks is a gender studies department. I didn't realize that learning about sedimentary and metamorphic rocks could be a basis for form a gender preference.
JerrytheBullfrog said:
Strawman argument.
No, I'm just trying to grasp your idea of feminism.
JerrytheBullfrog said:
Feminism is about gender equality in its ultimate point. However, since women are the marginalized sex, it is more concerned with their rights and issues because *they have further to go*.
So then I was wrong before when I described your idea of feminism being about the equality of women, you believe that the ultimate goal of feminism is about gender equality, correct? If so, then the women should focus on how men are depicted in games as well.

JerrytheBullfrog said:
It educates. It makes people think about things they don't question due to their privilege. That's the most important part. Way more than crying about perceived inequality when we're already a lot more equal.
Really? It seems from looking at this thread that it just irritates people.

JerrytheBullfrog said:
The entire point of the article is that rape and sexual assault *do not exist in a vacuum.* There is a culture around us that enables it, that encourages it however subtly - by questioning rape victims when we wouldn't, say, doubt the word of someone that he was mugged.

To that end, one can promote rape culture without being a rapist. Without ever actually mentioning rape. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
 

Trekkie

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Sep 21, 2008
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JerrytheBullfrog said:
Blablahb said:
Well, what's there to say? People are sick and tired of extremist feminists making up myths about oppression and conspiracies against women, just to prevent having to acknowledge the unspeakable, namely that women themselves make their role, accept their role themselves, and actively work to reinforce that 'role' constantly.

Or in short: doing whatever the radical feminists are angry about, to themselves.
LiquidGrape said:
On a related note, ironically enough, modern feminism believes that men are more than capable of transcending these institutionalised roles to which they are expected to adhere. Feminism actually acknowledges the agency of men, and their status as equals.
And yet feminism is accused of misandry.
Which is extremely, shockingly dumb a point of view because the enemy is not 'the men', but religion. It's religion which preaches taboo on all sex and the blame of any sexual transgression with women. It's also religion which teaches women are inferior, so probably not as entitled to the integrity of their body as men.

Quite frankly, merely speaking of feminist theories of 'rape culture' is deeply offensive and rude. You're insulting half the human population, while ignoring the real problem. I myself have uncovered sexual abuse on two occasions (yay for growing up in retarded Christian villages) and the shit that has cost me over the course of years... It cost so very much, money, time, emotionally... And in comes some twat who claims that I'm part of a 'rape culture' because of my gender.

Let me be short about that: Anyone who believes in 'rape culture' theories lacks any form of decency, and should be ignored.

Less rant'ish: I've always wondered what it is why feminists twist and bend themselves into such corners to find a culprit while they don't dare to attack religion at all, while it's no doubt their main enemy.
Wow, someone else who doesn't understand rape culture.

1.) Being a guy does not make you part of rape culture by default. Your actions do. Many guys are part of rape culture. Many make a conscious effort to not be.

2.) Women can perpetuate rape culture as well. Again, rape culture is not just "all men create rape culture," it's an intersecting dynamic of how society as a whole acts.

3.) Rape (as in, actual rape, not just rape culture) is overwhelmingly performed by men (90+%) against women.

4.) What feminists do you know? There are plenty of atheist feminists. I'd even say that MOST feminists acknowledge that religious systems are one of the key proponents of patriarchy. Since, well, they are.

That you somehow believes feminists don't attack religion and that you believe that rape culture is just a male thing shows that you don't understand jack shit about the topic, sorry. Educate yourself.
1: your right being simply male doesn't mean you contribute to rape culture, however according to mainstream feminists being a masculine, heterosexual man who doesn't completely agree with whatever feminists say, dose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmHETvyk6eA

2: really, because every time iv seen "rape culture" presnted, it is always presented as a problem with men, women are never mentioned.

3: now this is something i think everyone should be aware of. The definition of rape in the UN, UK, US and just about every country around the world is that of gender exclusivity. for instance the definition of rape in the UK is this.

Definition of rape section 1 Sexual Offences Act 1956 (Archbold 2004, 20-5)

The offence applies to the rape of a woman or the rape of another man.

The offence of rape was restated in Section 142 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 to include anal sexual intercourse with another man without consent. Where anal intercourse takes place without consent, you should charge rape contrary to section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 and not buggery contrary to section 12 of that Act.

Following R v R [1992] A.C. 599 and the removal of the word "unlawful" from the definition of rape it is clear that a husband may be prosecuted for raping his wife.

A boy under 14 is now capable in law of sexual intercourse - Sexual Offences Act 1993, sections 1 and 2 Archbold 2004, 20-23.

A woman may be convicted as an aider and abettor.

( http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sexual_offences_rape/#Definition_of_rape )

now i don't know about you, but that clearly says that only men can be rapists. a woman according to it can aid and abet it but simply for the fact that she is female, even if she drugs a man or forces herself on top of him then she cannot be a rapist,. because y'know, men enjoy being violated.

and it is on these grounds i say bollocks to that 90% figure because according to the people that record that figure only one gender is capable of rape! so how on hearth is that figure going to be ACCURATE!?! Also if rape culture exists, then why is rape held up there with murder as one of the most despicable of crimes and can get you life in prison where you will be beaten by other inmates for it?

4: im not going to touch the religious side. there are plenty of non religious feminists and MRA's BLAH BLAH BLAH.....

Patriarchy theory however will take me all day to write so ill just link to these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV8F0TSLwOY&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sAomeiTOKI&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE&feature=plcp
 

Smeatza

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Dec 12, 2011
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Danzavare said:
I hate to interrupt but what do you mean by 'objective point of view'? I understand the idea of fact checking insofar as physical realities (Release dates, platform, etc) but I don't understand what you mean by an objective point of view.

Ethnography and historiography are just two academic fields that deal with the inherent subjectivity of texts. Your choice in words, subject matter and selection of evidence all alter the information you present. Even science reports are marked by their conscious decision to use 'scientific writing conventions' to present their information, and tend to have a particular aim or hypothesis in mind (At the necessary exclusion of others). Subjectivity doesn't negate the value of a discussion, it's an inherent part of it.

To keep to the topic, how do you find the objective facts behind the social implications of games? Sure, you can work toward an intuitive and intelligent interpretation of a game and how this may sit with its broader context (As I imagine is her aim), but I can't see how you can pull out an objective account or point of view from it.
My issue is purely with the format of her documentary. The best way I can put it is it's like the difference between Animal Face Off and Life on Earth. One is a documentary series based on reality, the other is a series that gives you reality.
This is all my assumption though, the end product could be entirely different than what I'm predicting.

Danzavare said:
When you say people who need to hear it, do you mean the ones in your other post?
I mean those who are unware or apathetic towards the issue.

Smeatza said:
I think you're forgetting all the people who don't have a strong opinion either way. It's perfectly plausible to think that the video is aimed to educate and inform people who either aren't aware of the issue, haven't given it adequate thought or know the issue, but don't yet grasp its serious implications for gaming and gaming's place in society. I'd hate to think how difficult progress would be if the only way to it was through stubborn minorities (In any issues there are always people who will never see reason). As far as getting many people to see it I'm thinking it'll be more a marketing problem than anything else.

In all honesty I'm not sure I'll agree with everything she will say, but I think it's definitely a debate worth having.
I would agree, it's certainly a debate worth having. I'm just not so sure her videos will be that effective in encouraging debate.

PiCroft said:
As I've said before, if someone won't watch a video because it contradicts what they want to believe, that isn't the problem of the video maker.
It is the problem of the video maker, if somone won't watch a video due to how it is presented.

PiCroft said:
Also, as I've said before, the world isn't divided into ardent sexists who won't watch it and fervent anti-sexists who will. That isn't how the world or viewership or documentaries work. I have no idea why you are convinced there is literally not one person who will watch it who isn't already decided one way or the other. She (the documentary maker) has stated her previous materials have been used by parents, in classrooms and by charities and other organizations to discuss gender issues, this will be no different only hopefully with higher production values and more solid research.
I don't understand where you are getting this from.
A number of people will not take this seriously as they will see it as an attack on, rather than a look into the gaming industy and gaming as a hobby.
I'm not saying the world is split into two sides, I'm not saying there's only two types of people who will watch this.
I'm saying that some of what I thought would be her preferred audience will not give this any credit due to how it is being presented.
This is just a prediction though, like I've said the end product could be vastly different to what I'm expecting.

minuialear said:
Staying within one medium is a perfectly reasonable way to want to focus a discussion on a broader topic. Otherwise the discussion becomes too broad for the average person to keep the overarching point in mind (an issue that's even a problem when focusing on just video games, due to their variety; but at least keeping it to one medium limits that somewhat). Considering this is a very complex issue, breaking it up and examining cross-sections, rather than trying to examine the entirety of human existence, is much more effective at driving one's points across.

Plus, the video game community as a whole (i.e., generally, not entirely) tends to be a lot less open to gender discussions that communities for other media (in part because it's a lot younger and hasn't had equal time to deal with the issue), so it makes sense to target the video game community for this particular phenomenon, rather than to target books or films.
While I cannot disagree with anything here. I still feel that singleing out a particular form of media will make those who enjoy it feel victimised, and therefore less receptive to legitimate points.
Maybe that's necessary though. The sheer amount of people I've had disagreeing with me in this thread makes me think people will be more receptive to her videos than I suspect.
I'd still like to see somone address this issue in a more investigative manner though.
 

PiCroft

He who waits behind the wall
Mar 12, 2009
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Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
 

Urh

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Oct 9, 2010
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For some time I've been of the opinion that the most effective way to destroy a person's will to live is to force them to spend about half an hour reading Youtube comments. I'd really like to see [a href="http://xkcd.com/481/"]something like this[/a] implemented - if it results in just one moron becoming aware of their own stupidity, I'd declare it a success.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Grey Carter said:
Therumancer said:
Ask yourself this question Grey, whether you agree with her or not, how would you try and shut her down if you were of a mind to do so? You can say you wouldn't engage in E-intimidation, but at the same time it's not like there are any other recourses.
I wouldn't. I'm not so insecure in my views that I feel the need to censor people who disagree with me.
Not quite what we're talking about. My very tone makes it rather clear that I'm not talking about censorship, but rather shutting down a message someone is trying to convey. While someone DOES have the right to be a rabble rouser and seek attention through the media and so on, people also have the right to confront it and try and yank their platform through their own freedom of speech.

So really, what would you do in order to try and shut down a message you didn't agree with? Ignore the specifics of this issue. Are you going to say that you've never attacked someone you disagree with, through mockery and parody if nothing else? Granted your not as low-brow as these guys are but you've definatly made some rather biting criticisms of the gaming industry and the positions it's been taking through your work. I'd argue it's similar to what you or Penny Arcade have been doing in your own way for years, just not as sophisticated, and from an alternative viewpoint.

In case there is some confusion, I want to make it 100% clear that I think women do have a place in gaming. What I disagree with is that gaming represents some kind of anti-female bastion or negative messages. Largely because I've spent a VERY long time looking at the things women create on their own, and oftentimes for a female audience. The basic logic being espoused here if applied to media in general would have 90% of the paranormal romance stuff, and shows like "True Blood" under fire. From my perspective aiming at gaming is being done because it's one of the few areas (for reasons I will not go into) where this kind of a message will be taken seriously and given a platform. If she had chosen to say target other media the work work of Laura K. Hamilton, Kim Harrison, Charlene Harris, Julie Bell, CLAMP, or numerous creators and rabid fan bases would shut her down much faster than we're seeing here and in a fashion that makes this seem bloody polite.

Now, it's fine if you and others disagree on this specific issue, but don't misunderstand my message or assume that I believe in the literal truth of the counter attacks being made so much as the opposition they represent. I see myself as a defender of gaming, for both men and women, and this being a threat of a sort best dealt with through fan rage as actual censorship is not an issue.

In the end we'll doubtlessly have to agree to disagree, and you (and others) might not see the distinction I'm pointing out, but to me it's important. I treat this as any other attempt to modify media content (which is what she ultimatly wants, she's pushing for a form of censorship herself whenyou get down to it). To me claiming that gaming is sexist in it's current form is like claiming that gaming is too violent. Claiming it encourages mistreatment of women and negative perceptions of them, is like claiming video game violence turns people into killers and violent offenders. I view her just as I do Jack Thomson, it's just she's coming from a differant angle.
 

Twinmill5000

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Nov 12, 2009
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@Feminist Frequency.

If you're reading this, then, thank you, for taking the time to click the link in my Youtube comment, to see what I have to say in its fullest. It tells me that you have an open mind, which is good, because it means you might listen to what I have to say.

I'm an advocator of free speech, and while I'm usually the first to jump on any feministic remark like it directly insulted me, you have the right of free speech too. Simply put: the reception you're getting from your videos, while keeping in mind that this is Youtube, and they have their own rights too, only helps strengthen your argument.

When the top comment of your video is something that can get you fired for sexual harassment in a work environment, even I, the manliest defender of man, have to step back and take a sideways look at it all.

I'll save my disagreements with the video (though, really, they're mainly minor nitpicks,) and maybe walk away from this with some more insight and a more open mind. While, yes, I see the counterargument that is 'we're men and we like boobs and have the right to stare at them', there seems to be nothing in that video that says that right will be taken away. Which is good; see the right to free expression.

Instead, your video seems to be aimed more at creating a more diverse use of the female character archetype in general in video games, and expanding the sub-archetypes in the industry, eventually translating into a wider range of female characters.

It seems to me like, whether you want it to or not, you're not asking for the Mostly-Naked-Warrior or Damsel-in-distress or generally weak archetypes to go away. It seems more like you're asking for more characters to pop up who break those archetypes, are asking writers to be creative, and create more characters who are more diverse, like Leona from League of Legends.

So I'll support your project. I can't put in much now, but:

While I don't consider the industry to be very creatively stagnant, as others do, I do think there's alot of stagnation in the writing right now. It seems to me like most writers just pick out a random trope from TVTropes, and base a character around that. The same video series could probably be brought up in the portrayal of African American characters in games, and how we need more diversity, for example.

So, just to clarify, you're getting support from someone whose, as he's typing this, is running Tera in the background, and is playing a female Castanic warrior. Someone who frequently offers counterarguments to feminism and accuses most people of being white knights.

But, on that same note, someone who took one look at those comments and went 'yeah, enough is enough. Debating, arguing even, is one thing. Ignoring the points entirely and telling someone to go back to the kitchen, that's just immature.'

Also, I'll leave this message on this note:

As a writer, I already try to include a diverse variety of female characters in my writing. In fact, my deepest characters are female, and one of which, is the Aspect of freakin' Death, and she's strong, cold, a bit flawed, only a little crazy, and doesn't cook. She also killed the Grim Reaper and took his place. As a writer... I'll keep this video in mind, and at the very least, use it as enlightenment for the ideas in my work. My cast is diverse as is, but maybe I can push it farther.

In other words, I was inspired by someone who supports feminism, and I never thought I'd see the day.


inb4 I'm called a white knight whose trying to get elaid and should grow a spine (balls) and be a member of the true master race

give me a break, I thought this forum was full of autistics, not stupid people.
 

Cord Sims

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i'm of several minds on this:
1) giving someone this much shit is almost never called for
2) on the other hand, this is youtube we're talking about and if you can't handle hateful people and trolls you should probably go elsewhere
3) i can see why people would be opposed to her talking about video games from just watching her kick starter tie in, she has very clearly staged this set up. everything is too clean to be a gamer set up, i.e. none of the controllers seem to have any wear on them and if games were anything more than just a passing fancy there should be very clear visible signs of use; also she is clearly not playing anything in the video. i'm not saying the hate speech is justified, but if someone was going to seriously be lecturing you about something very important to you, you'd be mad if you thought that it was a subject they had no prior foray in. say you're a physicist, you wouldn't want a plumber to lecture you on string theory.

personally, i don't care. i've been too tired lately to do or say anything other than this, and after this i'm detaching myself from the subject.
 

PiCroft

He who waits behind the wall
Mar 12, 2009
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Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
Please read this [http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/]. It explains the concept a lot better than I can.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
"Rape Culture" is a term used by some feminists to dramatize the idea they present that society is unfairly weighted in favor of men, and even if unintentionally strives to force women into a submissive position. In this case despite the strong language it doesn't actually have to do with "rape" in a literal sense, though the overall implication is that this alleged forced submission leads to the expectation women are there to be used and yes, raped.

In sociology where it's covered (or was when I was in school, when the term was first appearing) it's a similar variation on a "straw man" arguement used by various minority groups, most similar to "invisible knapsack" theory.

"Invisible Knapsack" theory is all the things you as a member of the majority take for granted that is intimidating to a minority. An example would be how if you walk into a store and ask to see the person in charge, it's very likely that the person you wind up dealing with is going to be a member of your ethnicity. You don't think anything of that as a member of the majority and take comfort in it, but to someone of a differant ethnicity that very reality is intimidating in a way you can't understand. It also gets extended in more dubious directions, especially when it comes to the US, by pointing out that just about everything in the enviroment is created by or put there by white people, even in countries where we don't dominate. Electricity, Phones, etc... are all omnipresent and greatly outnumber the accomplishments of other peoples, we take comfort in this without realizing it, while other people feel intimidated. In many cases pointing out accomplishments to Arcetecture, Mathematics, and other things of other peoples involves going back centuries. While we argue Edison or Tesla, or what nation gets to claim Alexander Graham Bell given how he moved around, someone who isn't white has to deal with a modern world created entirely by other people and largely dominated by them (see the "who you get if you ask for who is in charge" bit above). The end result being that we are all racists just by existing and just don't realize it. Even pretensions of charity (helping the poor people of color in the ghettos) is a form of racism due to them needing the charity and the promotions used in order to get people to donate.... now before you argue it's BS and has been debunked heavily and ruthlessly, it's just a major philsophy.

"Rape Culture" is named to get attention for a specific point of view and make it harder to argue with due to the perception that if you argue against it "your supporting rape". In the end it pretty much involves the same kinds of arguements as the "Invisible Knapsack". The idea that if you say ask for the person in charge the vast majority of the time it will be a guy. This applies accross the spectrum to police, bosses (who you need to appeal to for a promotion), and simply who has control of most of the money and resources. Arguably as a whole men can make women do whatever they want through pressure, because they are holding all the cards and thus equality becomes a joke. Comparing the overall numbers more men tell women what to do, and are in a position of control than there are women doing the same. When compared to "The Invisible Knapsack" above those who follow this theory will argue that when it comes to minorities getting chances it's more likely to go to a guy than a girl. Thus arguements about being a minority AND a woman being a double strike.

It also expands into how attractive women have advantages, as long as they are attractive. Not so much because of literal rape, but because sex appeal can be exploited (eye candy, promotional value, etc...). An attractive woman can be on the top of the world as long as she remains that way, fingers being pointed to say the phenomena of "it girls", where an actress will stay popular as long as she's hot and seems to be availible, but if she has a couple of kids, gets old and puts on a few pounds, etc... her career falls through the floor.

Then there is of course the issue of what guys get away with (allegedly) that girls don't. The basic idea that it's socially accepted for a guy to be a drunken buffoon and get into all kinds of trouble, laughing it off with the guys, and then having life go on. Girls do that and it's somewhat differant.

Now again, this has been heavily analyzed and debunked on most levels, but it's still a popular theory.

Either "Invisible Knapsack" or "Rape Culture" can be used as an arguement to say that minorities or women should be given things, put in charge, etc... simply for the sake of equalizing things. As well as an excuse for why someone doesn't succeed (it was those evil people in the majority!), or as an attack to argue that someone doesn't deserve to be in charge or should be removed simply on the merits of being a member of the opposing group. Thus affirmitive action groups, feminists, and others who are all about power and wanting things for themselves and their groups will use the things as avenues of attack. Especially seeing as they play well to the right crowds, and the counter arguements and analysis take time that doesn't generally exist in a buzz clip or media statement. In today's media being right isn't always as important as having a point that can be made consicely in the two minutes your given for an interview on TV. It's far much easier to mention a couple of actresses not being popular anymore because they aren't as attractive as they once were, than to say point fingers at men (yesterday's sex symbols and male models) in the same boat, or make arguements about talent and pointing to the women who HAVE managed to hold onto
enduring entertainment careers.

Hopefully this helps, I know many people will disagree with me here, but this is pretty much the textbook definition of that term, and I mean that literally from when I took sociology many years ago and the term was first starting to appear (decades ago) and wasn't yet in popular use.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Nov 7, 2011
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PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
Please read this [http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/]. It explains the concept a lot better than I can.
You can't summarize it in a paragraph? That looks very long and I just want to know how I'm supposedly part of rape culture for liking video games.
 

PiCroft

He who waits behind the wall
Mar 12, 2009
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Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
Please read this [http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/]. It explains the concept a lot better than I can.
You can't summarize it in a paragraph? That looks very long and I just want to know how I'm supposedly part of rape culture for liking video games.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you even care (which you probably don't) then you'd endeavour to spend 5 minutes reading it, cos that's how long it took me.

Also, you aren't part of rape culture because you play video games, jesus fucking christ.
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
2,497
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PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
PiCroft said:
Helmholtz Watson said:
Then the point is shit. Me playing video games doesn't promote rape anymore than it promotes grand theft or genocide. You sound like Fox News right now.
What? How did you get GTA into this? He said: you can promote rape culture without literally being a rapist. By holding rape victims to absurdly high standards of belief compared to, say mugging victims, by suggesting women are to blame when someone rapes them etc.

Every time rape culture is brought up, people flock to deny it because they seem to think it declares every man an unequivocal rapist, demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding what rape culture actually is. Your immediate jump to your own defence against something no-one is accusing you is evidence of that.
Then explain to me what rape culture is, because the other guy is doing a poor job at it.
Please read this [http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/rape-culture-101/]. It explains the concept a lot better than I can.
You can't summarize it in a paragraph? That looks very long and I just want to know how I'm supposedly part of rape culture for liking video games.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you even care (which you probably don't) then you'd endeavour to spend 5 minutes reading it, cos that's how long it took me.
Thanks for not helping out, but it seems that somebody was able to do exactly [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.378338.14804420] what I asked.
 

PiCroft

He who waits behind the wall
Mar 12, 2009
224
0
0
Helmholtz Watson said:
Thanks for not helping out, but it seems that somebody was able to do exactly [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.378338.14804420] what I asked.
I should point out that Therumancer thinks that the vitriol aimed at the woman in the OP is deserved because she needed to be prevented from exercising her free speech (because she's an attention-seeking extremist!), but hey, I'm sure he knows more on feminist topics than an actual feminist.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out to any lurkers that this is the reason why topics on feminism go nowhere. Anti-feminists don't want to learn or understand, what they want is soundbites and shitty deconstructions by people who think rape culture is an excuse for positive discrimination and underachievement.