Hollyday said:
Therumancer said:
A point I keep making which people don't want to address since it pretty much shuts down every arguement is to look at what women create for themselves and aim at a female audience. You'll quickly notice that these "negative tropes" and some of the most criticized female characters are par for the course.
I find it by far the most worrying point, and I'm willing to discuss it until the cows come home! Women are as much a part of the problem as men - by saying that I'm a feminist and that I want equal and balanced representation across all media for women, I'm by no means saying that it's men's fault that we don't have it now. You only have to look at fashion magazines which are written by and for women to know that we often do nothing to help ourselves. It's self-perpetuating: we grow up with stereotyped depictions of women in the media and so that's how we view ourselves. We then sell this back to the younger generation and the cycle goes on and on and on.... until people are educated about it. Enter Anita Sarkeesian...
Actually the thing is there is no problem. The success of the creators I mentioned is due to the fact that they produce what the audience wants. I'm not talking about people on the fringes either, but some of the most prolific and popular creators aiming at women within the fantasy genere. This is what women want, not what they are being forced to consume, or brain washed into. At the end of the day it's all pretty straightforward, physical ideals from the protaganists, typically not being either shy or vain about that ideal, and going out and actively doing exciting things within the genere. It's exactly the same for both men and women. At the end of the day men and women really aren't all that differant, there is nothing sexist involved, it's just human.
The entire arguement being made here boils down to the position that if men like something or find it appealing, then it must be wrong.
What's more with women by the millions buying books, and supporting TV shows like True Blood to make the creators I mentioned what they are (we're not talking about a fringe) it's pretty obvious that the bottom line is people like our crusading Vlogger trying to pretty much tell the majority they are wrong, and that they should have a differant attitude, and want something differant. If taken seriously it's pretty much "I know better than you, so you should change to want what I say you should want", but in the final equasion I don't think it's even a genuine attempt to do that, so much as it is an attempt to get attention.
Women already have a balanced portrayal throughout the media. You have female characters doing all of the same stuff male chartacters are doing throughout science fiction and fantasy. Yes, female characters are generally portrayed as being drop dead sexy, but the same can be said of male characters. Lara Croft is a sex symbol, but so is Indiana Jones. Granted the sex appeal can be packaged a bit differantly, but it's still there. Harrison Ford, William Shatner, Tom Cruise, Sean Connery, all action/genere guys who owe a lot of their success to being eye candy for the ladies.
There is no issue here, women are just as fairly represented accross media as men are, movies, TV, video games, etc.. At this point if someone does not like the tropes that's a personal matter for them, not an issue that deserves a platform to call for massive reforms.
Also on a differant, but connected note, the issue of "physical ideals" in the media is something that affects both genders. Women get more press for the whole schtick of trying to force themselves to be slim and pretty to fit a fantasy ideal, but the problem is just as bad for guys and ties into the whole "steroid crisis" with guys trying to pump their muscle definition up to the level of movie or video game he-men and such. Women try and claim this as being something special that only applies to them, and it's not.
At the end of the day physical ideals exist in the media because they are fun, and that's what entertainment is all about. Sure, not many guys or girls are going to look like that, which is why it's impressive, and helps create the suspension of disbelief that they can do whatever crazy things the fantasy requires to work. People embrace the media to get away from the ordinary and argueing that the media should only involve ordinary people kind of defeats the purpose. When your dealing with billions of people on the planet, and the population increasing every day, it's not surprising that a few are going to be absolute freaks and destroy themselves doing stupid things. With so many bloody people on the planet "a few"
can amount to some pretty staggering numbers. That is not to say that striving for an ideal is "stupid", it only becomes so when people take it to the point of self destruction, self improvement is generally a good thing. Just becayuse there are girls who kill themselves with purging and botox, and guys who explode their hearts with 'roids trying to look like a He-Man action figure does not mean there is actually an issue... just that there are stupid people, whose deaths will be exploited for purposes of sensationalism.
