So much to say, so little time. For the record, I'm still facedesking.Aiden Raine said:
*deep breath*
Just how much do you even know about Cloud? How much of FF7 did you even play? =_=
Kitase Discusses Hypothetical Final Fantasy VII Remake
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*deep breath*
Just how much do you even know about Cloud? How much of FF7 did you even play? =_=
Oh, that sounds like fun. Keep the storyline in tact and the characters the same--okay, a few tweaks here and there if you must--but if they truly 'remade' Final Fantasy VII this way, I'd buy it.
I would like them to add a huge side quest where you do all these things to revive Aeris, then at the very end, she shows up and says, "Look, I'm dead. There's nothing you can do about it. Sorry." I just think that would be amusing.
I would like them to add a huge side quest where you do all these things to revive Aeris, then at the very end, she shows up and says, "Look, I'm dead. There's nothing you can do about it. Sorry." I just think that would be amusing.
A thought about the whole "retconning" thing in relation to stuff like "Advent Children": I've wondered about a few characters - certainly Cloud, who seemed to have some sense of humor and passion in 7, but lost most of it in AC. Also, Reno of the Turks - how could they incorporate him being a jackass like in AC into the early scene where he drops the Midgar plate on the slums and MURDERS hundreds of people? I know he's a mercenary, but him being the comic-relief type just wouldn't hold up after something like that.
Still, a realistic rendering of Cloud in drag would be interesting to see.
Still, a realistic rendering of Cloud in drag would be interesting to see.
Because Square Enix no longer makes exclusives for sony. It could be likely that if a remake were to happen, it could end up on the next xbox, nintendo system, and the next playstation.OutrageousEmu said:
Haha, this made me laugh, but it's so true.Daystar Clarion said:
I would be totally psyched for a FF7 remake. That demo that they made for the PS3's release only renewed my faith in Square, but it's so hard to have faith in them these days.
An FF7 remake would be overall a good move imo.
Funny you should say that, because adding Goofy to a video game proved quite well for them. Kingdom Hearts ended up being better than a lot of their recent Final Fantasy games. In fact the traditions and norms of Final Fantasy seems to be something holding them back.Grey Carter said:
They've always had a formula for different games, and this meant that a lot of real innovation was saved for other games, while they worked with a very certain formula for Final Fantasy, the traditional NES and SNES formula. Because it was beloved and they're fearful to change it. Again, it's a part of a very specific tradition.
Which is why, say, Final Fantasy VI, is much more Final Fantasy traditional, than Chrono Trigger. Which is more groundbreaking and has a different focus.
There would be a time that Final Fantasy could have kept going with tradition, but they've broken away with many of the better pieces for years, and it's just time that they threw tradition to the wind and created a new kata or formula. They could have kept going with tradition, had they done so properly, but they've squandered it and the formula must be reinvented now. It can't be helped. Because that formula has lost prestige and trying to force it to work has met with losing face for the very formula itself.
To take into mention some of those piece of formula that could have kept going if Final Fantasy had kept prestige as "knowing what it is supposed to do, and doing so with grace". Meant shying away from so much as adding a jumping mechanic to most games. Kingdom Hearts benefits from having very fluid action oriented controls, and while may not have great strategy like Final Fantasy, is incredibly engaging and fast paced. And games like Chrono Trigger completely did away with not only random battles, but also screen changes for battle. And both of these games came out fluid and innovative. And lets not forget a slew of other things that haven't been adopted by Final Fantasy because of prestigious tradition. No New Game Plus, and so forth.
These were nice things that could have improved Kingdom Hearts much sooner, as well as many lessons from their other games. But the Final Fantasy formula in the SNES and even PlayStation days had the most prestige, so they wouldn't dare tamper with a very specific formula. Because of course, they believed and understood that Chrono Trigger, and Final Fantasy were different and had different focuses and needs. But that formula is no longer prestigious and moving into modern hardware it has fumbled around embarrassingly and hasn't brought any status to the Final Fantasy name.
The only choice now, is again, to cast is aside, and actually for once not care about taking risks as long as you're aiming to make good ones that are certain to benefit gameplay. Instead of bad experiments like the Draw system.
I think that Kitase is right, there are a lot of things that need to be changes, especially for new hardware. Many things about old games were left to imagination. It's best to just change things up. Adding more content and fleshing out things that weren't able to be there before. Changing is bad if it means more content. The problem with change is that things like Final Fantasy XIV have less content than Final Fantasy XI.
_
My recommendation, is to make intelligent tweaks to the materia system. Minor, but intelligent. Something that could add an extra layer of depth to the materia system while not taking anything away from the original. One that would leave the game more tactical than before.
And next, though it would take a lot of time and money, leave more areas to be explored. Towns less figurative, and more to scale. jRPGs have always relied on assuming that, in canon, towns are bigger than you actually see. Many places being blocked off, and so forth. You can see how this assumption works when you compare Dirge of Cerberus to the original game, areas are much more fleshed out(at least the size of towns and areas). I know this is one of the things Square loathes most about such a project, but if you put the effort in, it would pay off. Bethesda was able to do that, Elder Scrolls games are explorable in almost every way, pretty well every building can be gone into, and are just as big as the Final Fantasy games, without even having an overworld map. And you can also interact with almost every object. It's a heavy undertaking that Square did not want to take part in, but it can be done. And given how badly XIII was reviewed for it's linearity and how highly Skyrim was reviewed and sold, it would certainly make the effort worth their while. It's pretty clear that players want more Skyrim in their Final Fantasy, and less linearity. More open world and more to interact with. That means that places like Wutai need to be able to be explored completely.
And furthermore, there's a wealth of NPCs, character interaction/dialogue, and a great many other things that can, and should be added.
And also, with the current technology, there is no reason they need to leave random battles or even screen switches in a Final Fantasy VII remake. They weren't even necessary in the SNES era, they can certainly be avoided on state of the art hardware. There's so many suggestions I could make as to changes, it could fill a book.
The remake could include the prequel and a re-vamped version of the sequel, and New Game+.
PHP or not, there's no actual reason that the game couldn't include realtime character switches in battle for a great many battles. There's just a wealth of changes they could add to a remake other than just giving it a graphical makeover.
I, for one, encourage Square to intelligently modify the game if they remake it.
If you played it the first time around, you'd know that Cloud isn't the emo guy that Square Enix has turned him into.Aiden Raine said:
It's never usually refered to as an HD rerelease.OutrageousEmu said:
Rerelease carries with it negative connotations, while 'remake' suggests 'something different'.
If it's a full on overhauled remake then jolly good, but until I know that's what it is, I'll consider it another HD release of the same game.
Take your pick.OutrageousEmu said:
http://press2reset.com/2011/11/23/silent-hill-2-hd-remake-to-include-original-voicetrack/
http://www.vg247.com/2011/06/03/report-team-ico-hd-collection-due-september-22/
http://www.qj.net/xbox-360/games/dante-is-back-devil-may-cry-hd-remake-confirmed.html
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/713750/devil-may-cry-hd-remake-on-the-way-capcom-not-ready-to-make-announcement-retailers-are/
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/02/konami-reveals-metal-gear-solid-zone-of-the-enders-silent-hill/
A quick google search pretty much proves that people refer to them as remakes and not rereleases.
Also, false advertising would not cover this area, as rerelease and remake are interchangeable in this context. One just sounds better than the other.
Keep the fuck away from it Kitase. You've spent the last few years revealing you're a mediocre hack who erodes what he touches. The series is soulless, let it die.
I want to see the original, real, fun, cross-dressing Cloud again.
(Pictured: Cloud not having an emo moment)
Do I expect Kitase or Toriyama or whoever is in charge not to screw it up? Not a bit.
Yet I still want them to remake it, just to shut everyone up.
And I'd still probably buy it, complain bitterly, but I'd still buy it... so, you know, food for thought.
(Pictured: Cloud not having an emo moment)
Do I expect Kitase or Toriyama or whoever is in charge not to screw it up? Not a bit.
Yet I still want them to remake it, just to shut everyone up.
And I'd still probably buy it, complain bitterly, but I'd still buy it... so, you know, food for thought.
Well in that case, it's never usually refered to as a remake or rerelease, but an 'HD Collection', or '[enter game name here] HD'.OutrageousEmu said:
Kitase was the original director of the game, Nomura was the one who came up with the story for it. Nomura stated he doesn't actually want to DO Final Fantasy, and is pretty much only doing Versus XIII because the actual XIII held a design philosophy he didn't agree with. The mans own words are "Versus is what I think a JRPG should be in the new generation"Trishbot said:I want to see the original, real, fun, cross-dressing Cloud again.
(Pictured: Cloud not having an emo moment)
Do I expect Kitase or Toriyama or whoever is in charge not to screw it up? Not a bit.
Yet I still want them to remake it, just to shut everyone up.
And I'd still probably buy it, complain bitterly, but I'd still buy it... so, you know, food for thought.
Kitase on the other hand, doesn't direct anymore, he simply produces, now what exactly a producer does when it comes to games, is often heavily debated. I've heard them called everything from "Glorified Messanger Boy" to an integral part of development and working with the director.
As for Toriyama, he seems to be Squares new 'Go to Guy' Even though he's a talentless hack, and I feel no need to follow up that statement with an 'IMO'
Then we have Hajime Tabata who's the Crisis Core/Type-0 guy, or one of the only two guys left in Square Enix that knows how to direct a fucking game, which really doesn't mean they haven't released good games, actually I think we've seen an upturn in quality since the XIII/XIV disaster, problem has it most of the games are spin offs, which really hurts the image.
Point is it all comes down to WHO directs, I wouldn't want Nomura on it because he didn't want to extend the story beyond the original game, turning it into a compilation just seemed like he tried to torpedo it best he could (man does not go half a decade going "Nope Nope Nope No Sequel" and then rescinding on it by choice)
Then again I don't need to see a FFVII remake yet, what I need to see is the next step.
What FFVII was, was more than a game if you'll excuse a tired cliche. For better or worse it codified a certain structure the series followed loosley. There were certain other codifiers like FF3 (the job system) and FF4 (the ATB system) Games would experiment and modify these set pieces but they largely adhered to them. For better or worse FFVII said you can have a certain amount of focus on the story and develop the plot and characters more. Now mind you we're looking solely at the internals of square here.
Thing is the new codifier hasn't come along, and some systems like ATB have worn out there stay. This is what the next system has to be, it has to be some mythical magical system that makes ATB obsolete and becomes enjoyable. and no it can't simply be different, otherwise people will just revert back to the tried and true. All the games since 10 have been experimenting on how to do it. XII is the closest we got, but it suffered from being too slow.
WOW was that a digression? sorry I like talking game design, always a fun topic to actually look at the details and not just slam your head on the surface like a monkey
Wasn't that was caused all the problems in FF7 to begin with? Though, if we could take the insanity out of Sephy-boy, I'd want me some of that myself. He's just so pretty... *swoons*Cyberdelic said:
Would I like to see the game with shinier graphics (that don't give me eyestrain), and hear it with prettier music and actual voices? Hell yes. But at the same time, I want it done /my/ way, which I'm sure is what most FF7 fans want. (I mean, they want it made in their image, not in my image, or anyone elses) I don't want that floaty voiced actress they had for Aeris (I played it in it's original American release. No TH here!) in the movie and in KH2, because that voice was good for a DEAD chick, and I certainly don't want Mandy-freaking-Moore. I also don't want any of the ambiguity about the Tifa/Cloud/Aeris love triangle removed, unless of course they come out on my side, which makes me a hypocrite.
There was a time when I desperately wanted this. It was in the early 2000s when Kingdom Hearts and FFX warred for time in my PS2. But I've grown and changed since. The damning faults of JRPGs aren't as forgivable as they once were, and Squeenix has long since lost my trust and loyalty. Now I'm a Bioware girl (but gently caress off, Dragon Age 2. You sucked so hard) and I play more Western RPGs. Hell, I even play shooters now. I'd be more afraid of what a FF7 remake might bring, and I sure as hell wouldn't preorder. If I want to walk down that nostalgia road I'll toss it into my system and replay, or (and exposing my true nerd weakness here) I'll role play it with like minded people.
There was a time when I desperately wanted this. It was in the early 2000s when Kingdom Hearts and FFX warred for time in my PS2. But I've grown and changed since. The damning faults of JRPGs aren't as forgivable as they once were, and Squeenix has long since lost my trust and loyalty. Now I'm a Bioware girl (but gently caress off, Dragon Age 2. You sucked so hard) and I play more Western RPGs. Hell, I even play shooters now. I'd be more afraid of what a FF7 remake might bring, and I sure as hell wouldn't preorder. If I want to walk down that nostalgia road I'll toss it into my system and replay, or (and exposing my true nerd weakness here) I'll role play it with like minded people.
Thing is we Final Fantasy VII fans don't want a remake so much as we want a Halo: Combat Evovled style reskin job on the game with the Advent children voice cast. People use the term "remake" because that's all they really knew but yeah, all we want it a prettier version of it. 14 months development time tops and it'll be a top seller.
*chuckles*
Well, at least they're sticking to the hypothetical this time, rather than dangling the carrot just to test the market response.
If we're talking about mechanics and plot, there are a few changes I would make if given the opportunity...
Well, at least they're sticking to the hypothetical this time, rather than dangling the carrot just to test the market response.
If we're talking about mechanics and plot, there are a few changes I would make if given the opportunity...
-Ignore most of the Compendium
-Keep Zack. He was important before, and his character was one of the few that actually received some respect in the compendium, rather than the clown-shoes DBZ treatment.
-Delete Genesis, the events in Dirge of Cerberus. Advent Children can be ignored since there isn't any real foreshadowing retcons that changed the plot of the original (the trio ofDBZ rejects Sephiroth clones just kind of popped into existence at the start of the movie).
Dirge of Cerberus, however, makes significant changes (DEEPGROUND, specifically. Which goes against Shinra's gradual loss of ethical/moral integrity as they've been buried beneath Midgar the whole fucking time). So does Genesis, who was, ultimately, a completely worthless character that served only two purposes:
1) To serve as another pretty boy backdrop next to Sephiroth. He isn't necessary for the SOLDIER revolt, as I've shown above. In other words: FAN-SERVICE. The worst of reasons for inclusion.
2) His sole appearance in Dirge of Cerberus was entirely just sequel-bait (for a game/movie that never happened)
-Keep the "mass SOLDIER desertion" from Crisis Core to show the cracks in Shinra's ethics and how it effects both the company and the direction it takes. This allows for stronger moral ambiguity for AVALANCHE's actions in the long run. Remember, Shinra was supposedly well-respected and trusted at one point. This strengthens several plot points and eliminates a lot of the feel of forced contrivance from Crisis Core's story.
Make the event attributable to internal affairs within the Science division. Have Angeal go missing/desert during this time to instill or reinforce Zack's morals and doubts about Shinra.
(say, a certain other important doctor spills the beans to the older soldiers in an attempt to elevate himself within the company. The older cadre of SOLDIER members learn exactly what is being done to them and desert the corps out of fear, anger or protest (which ALSO FORESHADOWS Sephiroth snapping). Being of military background, and sharing a common enemy, most will join Wutai in resisting Shinra. This also explains why Shinra had to send their very best in Sephiroth into what was otherwise a very one-sided affair of a World Superpower against a tiny country. Before, it made as much sense as sending a Navy Seal to assassinate a cripple in a public nursing home.)
-Keep Zack. He was important before, and his character was one of the few that actually received some respect in the compendium, rather than the clown-shoes DBZ treatment.
-Delete Genesis, the events in Dirge of Cerberus. Advent Children can be ignored since there isn't any real foreshadowing retcons that changed the plot of the original (the trio of
Dirge of Cerberus, however, makes significant changes (DEEPGROUND, specifically. Which goes against Shinra's gradual loss of ethical/moral integrity as they've been buried beneath Midgar the whole fucking time). So does Genesis, who was, ultimately, a completely worthless character that served only two purposes:
1) To serve as another pretty boy backdrop next to Sephiroth. He isn't necessary for the SOLDIER revolt, as I've shown above. In other words: FAN-SERVICE. The worst of reasons for inclusion.
2) His sole appearance in Dirge of Cerberus was entirely just sequel-bait (for a game/movie that never happened)
-Keep the "mass SOLDIER desertion" from Crisis Core to show the cracks in Shinra's ethics and how it effects both the company and the direction it takes. This allows for stronger moral ambiguity for AVALANCHE's actions in the long run. Remember, Shinra was supposedly well-respected and trusted at one point. This strengthens several plot points and eliminates a lot of the feel of forced contrivance from Crisis Core's story.
Make the event attributable to internal affairs within the Science division. Have Angeal go missing/desert during this time to instill or reinforce Zack's morals and doubts about Shinra.
(say, a certain other important doctor spills the beans to the older soldiers in an attempt to elevate himself within the company. The older cadre of SOLDIER members learn exactly what is being done to them and desert the corps out of fear, anger or protest (which ALSO FORESHADOWS Sephiroth snapping). Being of military background, and sharing a common enemy, most will join Wutai in resisting Shinra. This also explains why Shinra had to send their very best in Sephiroth into what was otherwise a very one-sided affair of a World Superpower against a tiny country. Before, it made as much sense as sending a Navy Seal to assassinate a cripple in a public nursing home.)
-Keep most of the plot of FF7 itself intact. Expand on innate character skills for both story and gameplay. Emphasize Cloud's split-personality over the "love triangle", but still keep the love triangle intact for when the pacing calls for levity. I cannot stress this enough: Character development occurs as a result of actions and believable relationships. Not just one or the other.
-Expand a bit on certain characters who were almost entirely superfluous to the original (Red XIII, Reeve, and perhaps Cid Highwind. With the expansion on the importance of the Wutai Conflict, Yuffie might be better worked into the story). It's still tricky business though.
-Delete all Dragonball Z-like superpowers and bring it somewhat back down to earth. Being able to super-jump 200 feet into the air during a cutscene, but being unable to navigate a four foot wall without taking the stairs or an elevator is a massive disconnect in logic, even for gameplay purposes. Today, people notice this shit IMMEDIATELY. We should at least try moving beyond that older stage in gaming where gameplay mechanics and plot are kept mostly separate.
-Expand a bit on certain characters who were almost entirely superfluous to the original (Red XIII, Reeve, and perhaps Cid Highwind. With the expansion on the importance of the Wutai Conflict, Yuffie might be better worked into the story). It's still tricky business though.
-Delete all Dragonball Z-like superpowers and bring it somewhat back down to earth. Being able to super-jump 200 feet into the air during a cutscene, but being unable to navigate a four foot wall without taking the stairs or an elevator is a massive disconnect in logic, even for gameplay purposes. Today, people notice this shit IMMEDIATELY. We should at least try moving beyond that older stage in gaming where gameplay mechanics and plot are kept mostly separate.
-Give each character a secondary skill or skillset, with statistical backing (Barret is tougher, Tifa is faster, Cloud is a strong all-rounder, etc). "Tabula Rosa" character mechanics are great for SINGLE CHARACTER SCENARIOS (maybe dual characters) but they are AWFUL when applied to the entire fucking cast because it makes everyone play exactly the same, regardless of background, specialties or mechanics.
Tifa is martial artist. This should be reflected in how she fights beyond her weapon selection and limit breaks. Cid is a lancer. Barret is a gunner who is missing an entire arm. Vincent is a sniper or effective assassin (he was a Turk once).
The only characters that exhibited any significant differences were Aeris Barret and Yuffie (Aeris was just awesome with Magic; noticeably more than everyone else).
-Keep Materia. This lets a character you've slacked off with potentially hold their own if the plot should demand it, but don't let Materia completely replace characters again.
-Turn-based or Real-Time?
Perhaps somewhere in the middle, like FF12. Despite all the flak I can throw at FF12, it did have a strong core combat system. I'm not opposed to Kingdom Hearts style either, though that requires a radically different approach for skills and abilities.
Tifa is martial artist. This should be reflected in how she fights beyond her weapon selection and limit breaks. Cid is a lancer. Barret is a gunner who is missing an entire arm. Vincent is a sniper or effective assassin (he was a Turk once).
The only characters that exhibited any significant differences were Aeris Barret and Yuffie (Aeris was just awesome with Magic; noticeably more than everyone else).
-Keep Materia. This lets a character you've slacked off with potentially hold their own if the plot should demand it, but don't let Materia completely replace characters again.
-Turn-based or Real-Time?
Perhaps somewhere in the middle, like FF12. Despite all the flak I can throw at FF12, it did have a strong core combat system. I'm not opposed to Kingdom Hearts style either, though that requires a radically different approach for skills and abilities.