Kratos

[geldonyetich]

Really interesting examination of Kratos, really. Comparing him to Batman and whatnot. One of the more interesting Extra Punctuation thingys yet.

I wonder how much of the apparent overgenericism that comes from a longstanding character is truly necessary.

 

[Lord Krunk]

I really do like Extra Punctuation. It helps flesh out Yahtzee's points of view, for one, and adds some suspense for the next day's ZP.

I'm with furburt here: the Gods are big ol' d-bags. kratos just wants revenge on them and will stop at nothing - including killing women, innocents, etc - to get there. Granted, this is selfish, but the gods royally screwed him over, and most people would be miffed if they did to them what they did to Kratos.

.....

I'm with furburt here

.....

furburt

I must say that I am deeply offended.

Sorry Furburt.

On-topic, I've never played God of War because it's always been on the wrong console, so I can't really provide anything in that regard. But I do agree with the 'relatable characters' thing; not everything has to be character driven.

For example, Tetris has no characters and Star Trek survives on them. It's a choice, not a necessity.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I really do like Extra Punctuation. It helps flesh out Yahtzee's points of view, for one, and adds some suspense for the next day's ZP.

I'm with furburt here: the Gods are big ol' d-bags. kratos just wants revenge on them and will stop at nothing - including killing women, innocents, etc - to get there. Granted, this is selfish, but the gods royally screwed him over, and most people would be miffed if they did to them what they did to Kratos.

.....

I'm with furburt here

.....

furburt

I must say that I am deeply offended.

Sorry Furburt.

On-topic, I've never played God of War because it's always been on the wrong console, so I can't really provide anything in that regard. But I do agree with the 'relatable characters' thing; not everything has to be character driven.

For example, Tetris has no characters and Star Trek survives on them. It's a choice, not a necessity.

.......

Sorry Furburt.

On-topic, I've never played God of War because it's always been on the wrong console, so I can't really provide anything in that regard. But I do agree with the 'relatable characters' thing; not everything has to be character driven.

For example, Tetris has no characters and Star Trek survives on them. It's a choice, not a necessity.

.........

Tetris has no characters

......

HOW DARE YOU DENY THE GOD OF TETRIS!?

 

[Aric Rainwater]

I LOVE "The Young Ones".
I have all episodes on DVD.

 

[the1ultimate]

Wow, for once, I totally disagree. The idea of a relatable hero is more necessary in videogames.
At the very least, it is for people like me who can only be fully immersed in games when we are pretending to be the main character.
That's why I like sandbox games, that's the entire reason there are choices in RPGs, and that's why I could never play god of war, because Kratos is a scary looking jerk.

I understand that some games weave a narrative like a film, and I can agree that it can be an effective way to tell a story, but I've always held that games aren't films.

Personally I think that when a character is too well-defined it will create greater controversy over aspects of his personality, causing people to point out inconsistancies with previous games, and specifying character development they would have preferred.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Bringing the Batman up was an interesting point.

Here we have a man who has gone beyond simple vengeance. I like the '90's animated series. It provided brief insights into Wayne as a character, a man so consumed by what he does that he really has nothing else. With the release of Batman Beyond, Wayne has become a bitter old man still trying to cling to the only life he knows. It could be argued that the sidekicks were his last hold on humanity, and his rejection of them after certain events only led him to a reclusive life.

 

[L0ki]

Kratos is like Batman, they are both men driven to action because of a tragic events. there is one difference between them, batman is insane and Kratos is blind. Batman went nuts from seeing his parents die, and Kratos became blind because in his last moments of life his eternal rest was taken from him so he could sit on a thrown till the end of days. being denied release of his burden twice over Kratos becomes blind with his need to vent his rage to no avail because as long as he is alive his torment will continue, then what does everyone thinks would be a good idea to do to this blind madman use him to their own ends then betray him.

 

[uberDoward]

Kratos is completely over the top - and yeah, as much fun as I had with the game, I kept thinking "Why the hell is he doing this again? What's the motivation?"

At least with the Duke, you knew he had motivation to go around kicking ass, both boots up.

 

[psychic psycho]

I mostly agree with the Batman assessment, though his murdered parents weren't his sole motivation for 70 years worth of stories. There have certainly been additions that gave more nuance and depth to the character since then, including the recent films, where Bruce Wayne attempts to become a symbol of hope for Gotham, or the '80's comics where they threw out the idea that he has a psychological need to be Batman. There's also the fact that he uses his billionaire persona to try and fund rehab programs for addicts, as well as give to other charitable causes, so that he's not just 'punch this dude, send to prison, have him escape, repeat.'

But, those added elements tend to be more the exceptions than the rules, introduced when publishers hire a writer with some actual ideas and ambition to write the character. Then it's back to the usual grind of punch-kick-repeat.

This sums up perfectly what I think about Batman. I don't have to type it now.

Yeah, what Yahtzee says about Batman isn't quite correct in my view. People who don't really know Batman assume that his sole motivation is revenge for his parents death. However there is more to Batman than that. The recent Batman films explain well how his parent's death was just a catalyst to becoming Batman rather than the real motivation of continuing his parents work and ridding Gotham of corruption.

I do agree with Yahtzee though, that in the comics Batman has become a bit of a parody of himself, but what character who's been around as long as Batman isn't.

 

[Callate]

Actually, I think the problem with Batman is that he's a certain number of essential characteristics printed in big block letters, mostly related to his history, and beyond that he has so little personality that he becomes whatever the writers want him to be.

(I can't speak so much for Kratos, not being a God of War devotee, but Batman I've followed enough of to comment.)

So, Batman.
* His parents were killed by criminals.
* He decided in the process of going to war on crime to take the bat as his symbol for its
potential for inducing fear in his enemies.
* He spent his youth studying criminology, the martial arts, and whatever other fields of athletics, science, history, etc. that happen to be necessary to push the particular story line.
* In the vast majority of storylines/universes, Batman never kills anyone as a matter of dogma.
* His "Bruce Wayne" persona appears foolish, shallow, and incompetent to prevent people from considering the possibility that he's Batman, yet despite this Wayne Enterprises usually is portrayed as a very successful company.
* He has a butler named Alfred who is an older man than he (usually portrayed as having worked for Bruce Wayne's parents) and fills whatever support roles the plot requires: combat medic, researcher, repairman, sounding board, etc.

Annnnnnd that's really about it.

Gruff, strict, and demanding, or playful, vivacious, and joking? Driven to the point of psychologically pathological obsession, or just a hard-working crusader who realizes he's the only one available to fill his niche? Is violence a tool of his work, or something he craves? Is his unwillingness to kill a virtue or a vice? Do his nocturnal habits interfere with his daily life, or is he so remarkable physically and mentally that it never comes up? Identity issues, or not? Sidekick: yes or no? Is his sidekick's presense in dangerous situations irresponsible, or has he worked out the game so far in advance and trained him or her so well that harm isn't even a serious consideration? Is Batman-level physical prowess in ordinary humans rare, or does it turn up in every villain of the week, regardless of their history? Is his relationship with the police (and the commissioner, in particular) one of friendship and trust, or animosity and suspicion?

It's all been done. Paul Dini's Batman is not Frank Miller's Batman, or Greg Rucka's Batman, or Bob Kane's Batman. Tim Burton's Batman is not Christopher Nolan's Batman (or, god forbid, Leslie Martinson's Batman.) That every different writer has been able to redefine the character depending on what they wanted to explore is part of the reason for the character's longevity, but it's also the reason the character, such as it is, leads to such frustration. (Every time some writer gets it in his head that "Batman is as insane as the villains he hunts", and thinks he's being cool and edgy, I want to slap him senseless...) The cowl and the history have a degree of consistency, but the villainous master plan that leaves one Batman reeling for a six-issue arc is so full of holes that the Batman of a previous writer would have wrapped it up in one.

He does, on occasion, show signs of life. Connections with long-term chracters, flaws and weaknesses that are human rather than merely glaringly obvious plot points. But wait a year, and we'll be on to something entirely different. (Ooh, now he's dead... Yeah, that'll stick.)

While I like Batman, it's pretty perverse that even Superman seems to have a more consistent personality. Kratos at least has the excuse of an action game riding on his back and a relatively short plot arc.

 

[Luke Warm]

So wait. Why does Yahtzee love Kratos and hate Lara Croft? If they're both just being DBs for the hell of it, with minimal backstory prompting?

 

[Jaebird]

I would have to disagree with Yahtzee about his Kratos/Batman comparison. Yeah, his initial motive of vengeance is stale and uninteresting at this day and age, but you know what else drives Batman to do what he does? Helping to prevent the same misery that had been forced onto him.

Batman helps the defenseless and inspires those who feel they should do the same. You know; like what a hero does. He's not out to save the world on any grand scheme; he's just doing his part to turn the tide of evil that plagues his home city. If Batman is as uninteresting as Yahtzee says he is, then why is he still around? I'll tell you why (in the corniest way possible): Batman is as much a symbol of hope as Superman is. And the writers, editors, artists and fans know this, too.*

Kratos, on the other hand, started off as the tragic hero and ended up being the anti-hero, badass, that would sell Michael Bay films. He went from being a somewhat well-rounded character to a cardboard cut-out who would kill kittens if they looked at him funny. You might as well have an explosion go off while he walks slowly away from it. To put it bluntly, Kratos is boring.

/end nerd rage

 

[Frybird]

Bringing the Batman up was an interesting point.

Here we have a man who has gone beyond simple vengeance. I like the '90's animated series. It provided brief insights into Wayne as a character, a man so consumed by what he does that he really has nothing else. With the release of Batman Beyond, Wayne has become a bitter old man still trying to cling to the only life he knows. It could be argued that the sidekicks were his last hold on humanity, and his rejection of them after certain events only led him to a reclusive life.

Wanted to mention the Animated Series too, in particular the Movie "Mask of the Phantasm", wich had a pretty interesting flashback story.

Around the time where Bruce has learned the skills and has the determination to fight crime, but still lacks experience and a mask with pointy ears, he unexpectedly falls in love.
That does make him enomously indecisive, because on one hand, this is the one chance to leave his past behind and become a kind of happy person, on the other, he is already so consumed by the whole "avenge my parents" thing that it borders on insanity.

While the inevitable conclusion feels a little bit forced, the whole thing offers some actual interesting insights into Bruce Wayne and just how broken it is...and the last scene of the flashback, in wich he first puts on the Batman costume is pretty awesome.


EDIT: That said, Batman is still mostly boring as a character these days. But there are moments, and even without them, Batman still kicks ass and analyses freaky villians, so i don't really mind THAT much...after all, it's still a comic character, and as a bland character he is still a lot better than most of the actual protagonists of Pirates of the Carribean, for example.

 

[Kingjackl]

Young Ones reference! Awesome!

I see where Yahtzee's going with this article. It'd be nice to have a few more actual characters in games, instead of grim, short brown-haired avatars.

 

[Corpse XxX]

I like to hack and slash things without further adue in the most violent of ways..
Thats why i like God of War, it understands my needs for fun violence and epic ways to die/kill..

What the hell you need a story for in this game anyways? It's just 8 straight hours of continous murder.. And that is awesome!

 

[Drakey]

Ahhh, You gotta give it to Yahtzee, Hes gotta point.

 

[Keith_F]

I think someone's already mentioned this but I think the reason Kratos doesn't strike me as a novel idea is that as a comicbook fan I've already been beaten over the head with the anti-hero trope. It was all fun and entertaining at first, providing a welcome change to the simple, rather superficial morality of standard superheroism. Then it became too popular and before you knew it every new character was just some grimacing hardass with more guns than God.

So it's hard to find the idea of a flawed, violent, unlikeable protagonist as an appealing alternative or a refreshing one. That being said, I suppose Kratos is amongst the first to occupy that trope in videogame culture.

What I would like to see is a new action series by SCE where Kratos is the final villain. They shouldn't even tell us. They should just give us a new hero, a different title, a completely different style of gameplay, and then half way through the game let the player know they're out to kill a power mad Spartan God of War. Of course, I have no idea how GoW3 ended, so perhaps this doesn't make sense.

 

[mjc0961]

Yeah, I have to agree about Kratos being a more interesting character in God of War 1. I don't like hack'n'slash games in general, but I did watch my brother play quite a bit of the God of War Collection, and 1 was much more interesting than 2. Although, I can understand him being mad about not having the nightmares go away as promised and for what happens at the start of God of War 2, it still wasn't as interesting. It was mostly just "Kratos kills stuff because that's what he does."

That's fine for the game itself I suppose, but it makes Kratos not as interesting as he was in his first outing.

 

[CAPTCHA]

Hum... perhaps the next God of War game will see some poor sod who's had his family murdered by Kratos seeking revenge - and thus the series come full circle. It'd be interesting to play as Kratos in that plot.