Lack of Gay Character Options in RPGs "A Shame," Says BioWare Producer

[prpshrt]

snip

Just wanna say before I reply that I have nothing against homosexuality (I feel like I just gotta throw it out there). The way I PERSONALLY feel is that with a different gender/minority, there's a visible physical difference in the characters but still this often doesn't change the story in anyway. In the games I've encountered homosexuality, it does absolutely nothing. It's more like a "this character is gay" with the information serving zero purpose. If they on the other hand do something with it and incorporate it in a non awkward way, then sweet! I know this isn't a game but in the animation movie "how to train your dragon 2", one of the characters was revealed to be gay by a writer or something and they did absolutely nothing in regards to it. They might as well just not mentioned it. Even if they do end up doing something with it, just feels out of place. Anyways that's what I personally feel in regards to the games I've played so far.

 

[DSK-]

I have no problem with having same-sex romance-able characters in games, but I just don't want it shoved down my throat like Anders was - or at least, that was one of the sticking points I remember with DA2.

Same-sex romance-able characters in ME3 were a massive improvement though.

 

[Ratty]

snip

Just wanna say before I reply that I have nothing against homosexuality (I feel like I just gotta throw it out there). The way I PERSONALLY feel is that with a different gender/minority, there's a visible physical difference in the characters but still this often doesn't change the story in anyway. In the games I've encountered homosexuality, it does absolutely nothing. It's more like a "this character is gay" with the information serving zero purpose. If they on the other hand do something with it and incorporate it in a non awkward way, then sweet! I know this isn't a game but in the animation movie "how to train your dragon 2", one of the characters was revealed to be gay by a writer or something and they did absolutely nothing in regards to it. They might as well just not mentioned it. Even if they do end up doing something with it, just feels out of place. Anyways that's what I personally feel in regards to the games I've played so far.

Here's the thing though, someone's sexuality is a pretty big part of who they are. Straight people often do not realize this, but it's true. If you see a straight man talking about/looking at women he finds attractive you probably don't give it a second thought. If a gay man talks about who he finds attractive or shows physical/romantic interest in someone? That's "gratuitous". If a straight couple hold hands or give each other light kisses in public no one bats an eye. If gay people do the same thing it's "indecent".

Gay characters existing isn't "out of place" it's just something you're not used to, because of their under-representation in media. Which is a result of centuries of fear and oppression. But they're still something like 10% of the population. If you've met at least 10 people in your life, there's a good chance one or more of them was gay. Whether they were in or out of the closet. To say this shouldn't be reflected in art, or that escapist and empowerment fantasy like Bioware's RPGs should not extend to these people is absurd.

And again, the information that a character is gay "serves no purpose"? Why does the fact that a character is gay, out of all "minorities", have to "serve a purpose" for the "privilege" of existing as a character trait in a game, or any work of fiction? Or do you think that characters who are Asian have to have their Asian heritage serve some purpose in the story, otherwise it's just pandering to Asians because "of course" no non-Asian would want to make an Asian character unless they were being pressured to do so? That's the exact same logic you're using.

 

[JazzJack2]

Yawn, just another of these let's pretend we are progressive and fresh for including something that has been in games for over a decade. Bioware have done this quite a few times now, yes we get it you have gay characters there's nothing controversial about that so stop pretending there is.

 

[Kerethos]

I've mostly found the romance options in Dragon Age to be rather amusing, so I don't see why they shouldn't add more varied options for their players to enjoy.

As long as it's optional, and there's a clear indication of when you show interest in a romantic relationship, why not? And if a character makes a pass at the player character then just have the option to confirm interest, decline or tell them to fuck off. It's not an RPG if I can't be mean[footnote]Though, in truth, I rarely am.[/footnote]

Some times it's just fun to play a gay dwarf, other times a straight elf or a mission oriented human who doesn't have any interest in romances at all. Because varying your character can add a bit of extra replayability, provided you can also affect the story in general (and not just personal relationships).

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I'll buy their talk about character variety when there's more than one game that lets me play as a time-traveling secret agent cyborg dinosaur.

 

[UberPubert]

Simply using "gamer" to describe as "movie buff" would have the same end result as it does now.

Which isn't what I was saying at all, I suggested we retire the term from constructive discussions so we could be more specific.

If you're going to say I misunderstand you, try not to do the same.

I'm not the one incorrectly replying with irrelevant sarcasm to reasoned points.

 

[small]

The problem comes when you make the character's defining trait as gay. I find that the character is just there to make a social commentary and nothings else. I know that this has been mentioned before but look no further than Fallout New Vegas. Veronica was a lesbian and she only mentioned it once or twice and that was it. It wasn't her defining trait it was just a extra tidbit of information to make the character feel more real.

well in her defence she was really more interested in finding a hot little black dress somewhere in the wasteland and punching people for fun

 

[JimB]

Taking out matters that most gay people face isn't going to help with getting that across.

I'm straight enough to be used as a drafting tool, so maybe my opinion is only worth so many grains of salt, but I can't help thinking that maybe gay people engaging in the escapism of playing an RPG do not do so in order to be ground down with the same pettiness and hate of the world they're playing an RPG to escape from.

 

[sleekie]

These Bioware 'discussions' always smell more of 'advertising' to me. I wouldn't mind, except I feel all the inclusivity isn't intended to benefit gay gamers. There again I've long since lost interest in Bioware's 'push buttons, receive awful sex scene' relationship model and I'm starting to wish someone else would break the mould.

I'd play the fuck out of gay Geralt, just because.

 

[Dango]

I'm having trouble taking this seriously after Bioware boasted that Inquisition would have their first "Fully Gay" character. First of all what the hell does that even mean, second of all so much of this comes across as a really shameless attempt to be appear forward thinking and inclusive.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I'm having trouble taking this seriously after Bioware boasted that a character in Inquisition would be "Fully Gay". First of all what the hell does that even mean, second of all that comes across as really shameless pandering.

It struck me as the opposite, really. More along the lines of "this character is going to actually be developed as gay, as indicated by more than just a couple of throwaway lines and a coincidental male/male or female/female pairing-off to show how 'enlightened' we are."

 

[Stavros Dimou]

I'm kind of indifferent in that. Like,it never occurred to me while playing Halo to ask myself "What kind of porno was Masterchief watching when he was on the stasis chamber ?".
Sure in an RPG game,the more available roles a player can choose to play as is the better.
But that kind of thing never bothered me,as in having to pick the sexuality of my character in general.
After all what I do most of the time on a RPG is killing bad guys. And well,talking with troubled people and doing chores for them to get rewards or advance the plot. Now if there was a sex simulator game,I guess there it would be an important feature to have to. But for most games these days,like FPSs or most RPGs sexuality is a thing that extremely rarely is even referred to.

 

[Erttheking]

All I have to say is...what's wrong with that? I'm currently writing a story where half of the characters in the military are female. The reaction is kind of a laid back "meh, she's a woman in a soldier, so what?" attitude. Not much attention drawn to it. I'm trying to inject feminist ideals into my story, but not in an in your face kind of way. In a passive, just putting it there and not drawing attention to it way. Just to make it feel natural. Just idly mention that one of my female characters regularly purchases the services of male prostitutes at the local brothel and have no one think it's a big deal. I've gotten a grand total of zero complaints, save for one person who says that he thinks the gender ratio is slightly skewered towards females, and that he prefers an even 50/50 split. Heck, I've even gotten a couple of female fans who say that they really like the way I write my female characters. It's idealized, but it's not bad. Frankly I think gay people absolutely love the idea of playing a game where they can go "That person is gay, so what?" A game where two gay men approach their relationship the exact way two heterosexual people would. Maybe it's just me, but if I was gay, I wouldn't play a game to remind myself of how much crap I had to put up with, I would play it to get away from it. Are there places for games that explore the stigma of being gay? Yes there are. But there are also places for the "I'm gay, big deal, who wants pizza" attitudes in game.

Wrong is too strong a word I think, maybe unrealistic is a better one. Even in places where homosexuality is accepted there is still always that risk gay people like myself have to worry about a lot. Obviously if you want to have a no-strings attached depiction of homosexuality in a game, the makers can do as they please and I'm pretty confident that many gay people really want that. For me though it's just a bit odd that I can metaphorically hold hands with a man in a faux-dark ages setting where you have all the traits of a dark-ages society, all except for attitudes towards gender and sex. If Bioware wants to make a medieval setting that has no qualms about that, it's completely fine. However if they want to make gay characters to make games more inclusive and relatable to gay people, there should be some of that anxiety in how the relationships pan out.

Magic is unrealistic. Demons are unrealistic. Women being soldiers and in positions of power in a middle age setting is unrealistic. Dual wielding swords is unrealistic. Taking on armies of soldiers with just three people backing you up is unrealistic. Giant humanoid monsters are unrealistic (They would collapse under their own weight). My point is that it doesn't matter if being openly gay isn't realistic, because Dragon Age isn't realistic. Dragon age never had being realistic as a selling point. It isn't Game of Thrones.

 

[Rawbeard]

EA really pushes Bioware to remind everyone they had some more or less well written gay characters. Attempted pandering? Anyway, I don't expect anything beyond "hey, this character is GAY! report about this, please, so our game gets more exposure"

 

[Longing]

It makes me laugh when people say Bioware is throwing it in just to seem progressive when they've been doing that since the early 2000s. Say what you want against them, but they are pretty much the only company that has made me feel completely accepted and welcomed. Even the fanbase I find to be very much diverse than usual.

so you go bioware. i've got your back bro.

 

[Karadalis]

The problem comes when you make the character's defining trait as gay. I find that the character is just there to make a social commentary and nothings else. I know that this has been mentioned before but look no further than Fallout New Vegas. Veronica was a lesbian and she only mentioned it once or twice and that was it. It wasn't her defining trait it was just a extra tidbit of information to make the character feel more real.

Also known as the "token" character... yes this really grinds my gears and thanks for bringing it up.

"He/shes gay" is not something that should define the entire character, but should only matter if it comes to relationship preferences.

It would be quite amusing thought having the "hottest" female in your party turning down your advances cause shes gay and you had no idea... ofcourse there should be subtle hints beforehand that are ofcourse easaly missed and make plenty of sense hindwise...

But who are we kidding... biowares understanding of subtlety is delivered with a sledgehammer

EDITH:

Also what annoys me is that gay relationships have absolutely zero consequences in those games. Look especialy if you have a game thats the equivalent of med evil times with fairies and dragons you would expect gay couples to face ALOT of prejudice and bias from oh i dont know... EVERYONE whos not gay?

Racism in your game is no problem but we cant possibly let the player experience sexism?`

Guys this is a great oportunity for some awesome storyplay and a chance to let people experience what it means to be discriminated against.. so play it out.

No other medium could do this to the degree games could... but you simply ignore the issue and tread it like its the most normal thing to happen in such a "primitive" fantasy world.

I'm straight enough to be used as a drafting tool, so maybe my opinion is only worth so many grains of salt, but I can't help thinking that maybe gay people engaging in the escapism of playing an RPG do not do so in order to be ground down with the same pettiness and hate of the world they're playing an RPG to escape from.

Then lets ger rid of racism, classism, sexism and all religious conflicts while we are at it.

You know what.. lets take out ALL conflict out of the game since "its a fantasy world"

Would be pretty boring now wouldnt it?

Also even thought the character would face prejudice, especialy in biowaregames the main character is allways "the" hero... he/she is allways the one to save the day and to come up as the winner at the end. They are allways the characters in charge and it would allow Gay people to face these prejudices from a position of power instead of a position of powerlessness like is often the case in the real world

What it boils down to is to allow these gay chars/players to overcome this prejudice in the game. Not to create a fantasy world where all the conflicts are there.. kept for that particular one.

But to outright ignore the very real issue that a society like they are depicted in these fantasy medevil settings with their very conservative goverment and religious structures (wich would very well be oposed to same sex relationships) just to not offend anyone is bad because it would rob the player of the experience of overcoming these odds and make ends meet so to speak.

When it comes to mass effect or sci fy settings in general however i have no problem with society not caring if someone is looking for a partner of the same gender.. after all its the future and people should be more advanced not only technologically but in their cultural views too...

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Then lets ger rid of racism, classism, sexism and all religious conflicts while we are at it.

You know what.. lets take out ALL conflict out of the game since "its a fantasy world"

Would be pretty boring now wouldnt it?

Also even thought the character would face prejudice, especialy in biowaregames the main character is allways "the" hero... he/she is allways the one to save the day and to come up as the winner at the end. They are allways the characters in charge and it would allow Gay people to face these prejudices from a position of power instead of a position of powerlessness like is often the case in the real world

You know, I absolutely LOVE being reminded of my estrangement from half of my family while playing video games that acknowledge the existence of my sexual orientation! When will developers realize that one of my favorite pastimes is reminiscing over the 14 years of rotting relations with my dad's side that started with the first time I took a girlfriend over to their house to meet them? I really wish that straight gamers could share in the fun and laughter that only a decade of emotional and physical abuse from family members can bring.

You know what else is a blast? Making special arrangements with funeral homes when an extended relative dies so that you can say goodbye without the risk of bodily harm! That's one of the funnest parts of being an outcast lesbian. It's like skinny dipping - everyone should do it at least once so that, when they're old and grey, they don't look back on their lives and wonder why they didn't take more chances.

Still, at the very least, if a game drudges up enough pain from the deepest parts my soul, I can take comfort in the fact that, as the game's hero, I can overcome my sorrows in a digital world that has no bearing whatsoever on real life.

Oh!!! As a bonus, maybe game devs can arrange for someone to break into my house while I'm playing and hold a knife to my throat, like what happened to me last year after an incident at a club that had everything to do with my sexual orientation. I've been DYING to relive that day!

Ha ha! Dying? Knife to throat? Get it?

I can't wait to buy a game with that level of realism!

 

[Denamic]

SMH

Is it too much to ask that creators be able to tell the stories they way the want to without having to be all inclusive of every minority/orientation/political view, etc? I'm honestly getting tired of wondering which activist group gets to pounce on the next new game.

Imagine if every game ONLY featured homosexual relationships. That's pretty what gay people deal with.