Lawyer: California Law Could Destroy Videogame Industry

[Cid Silverwing]

People can no longer simply blame video games for violence among children they will have to blame the parents because it will be illegal for the kids to actually buy the games.

It's always been illegal for kids to buy M-rated games. Your argument's been ninja'd ever since the rating systems were put into action yet no one gives a shit except the DECENT of retail workers (like the Yahtzee Whistleblower from GameStop).

 

[BrownGaijin]

It's funny how so many people are already writing this off as if the Supreme Court has made their decision. No wait it's not funny it's... what's the opposite of funny? Oh yeah sad. I guess phrases like "balls to the walls" and "it ain't over till it's over" are out of style.

Hmm...

"California Law Could Destroy Videogame Industry"

How about...

"Giant Meteor Could Destroy Life on Planet Earth"

or...

"A Kick in the Balls Could Ruin your Weekend"

Let me just be clear, while I appreciate the article reminding us of how serious the matter is, all this paranoia BS isn't any funnier than all those doom sayers and 2012.

The system is running its course. Stop acting like its already made a decision.

P.S. IMHO: The case is going to get thrown out. Schwarzenegger's argument will not hold water. Worst case scenario, the court finds in favor of that jackass, and we will cry "Amendment!"

 

[Binerexis]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

 

[Nopenahnuhuh]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

Yes, because the US has this annoying habit of being populated with the stupidest and most hypocritical conservative mummies this side of the hemisphere. If games are put on the same league as porn, alcohol and tobacco all the naysayers will go on a gloating spree the might of which our universe has not yet seen or heard. Going so far to start casting it off as a sin and smashing their kids' Wii consoles claiming it to be something of the devil.

I know this is absolutely ridiculous, but think about it. All those who misunderstand games shrug it off as being something hazardous, if it's put on the same league as something hazardous... well... Do the arithmetic.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Cant we do something about this law!? Cmon, we're not simply gonna watch this happen right? Anyone?

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The most you can do is treat r and M levels of media(from books to music as well) like tobaco, the person selling it gets a fine more than the store itself, other than that there is nothing else that can even be tried.

 

[Binerexis]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

Yes, because the US has this annoying habit of being populated with the stupidest and most hypocritical conservative mummies this side of the hemisphere. If games are put on the same league as porn, alcohol and tobacco all the naysayers will go on a gloating spree the might of which our universe has not yet seen or heard. Going so far to start casting it off as a sin and smashing their kids' Wii consoles claiming it to be something of the devil.

I know this is absolutely ridiculous, but think about it. All those who misunderstand games shrug it off as being something hazardous, if it's put on the same league as something hazardous... well... Do the arithmetic.

In the case of alcohol, it's only hazardous if not used in moderation which could be said about computer games.

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

People declaring video games evil and smashing up consoles is nothing new and it happens every time there's a court case involving video games and someone dying, a new law isn't going to make it any more explosive.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

Yes, because the US has this annoying habit of being populated with the stupidest and most hypocritical conservative mummies this side of the hemisphere. If games are put on the same league as porn, alcohol and tobacco all the naysayers will go on a gloating spree the might of which our universe has not yet seen or heard. Going so far to start casting it off as a sin and smashing their kids' Wii consoles claiming it to be something of the devil.

I know this is absolutely ridiculous, but think about it. All those who misunderstand games shrug it off as being something hazardous, if it's put on the same league as something hazardous... well... Do the arithmetic.

In the case of alcohol, it's only hazardous if not used in moderation which could be said about computer games.

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

People declaring video games evil and smashing up consoles is nothing new and it happens every time there's a court case involving video games and someone dying, a new law isn't going to make it any more explosive.

Ya tobaco and alcohol have a logical reason to be restricted from minors, information via media not so much unless its porn, which has been shown to have a bit more than tinous link to have negative effects on minors.

Sure in todays world they can make a law to restrict media based on age(since the foundation of law has been mostly tossed out for feel good bull shit). But its kinda hard to sneak something like this through, at least to where its a smart and proactive law.... all they are is vague and dim laws made to get soemone votes....

 

[Nopenahnuhuh]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

Yes, because the US has this annoying habit of being populated with the stupidest and most hypocritical conservative mummies this side of the hemisphere. If games are put on the same league as porn, alcohol and tobacco all the naysayers will go on a gloating spree the might of which our universe has not yet seen or heard. Going so far to start casting it off as a sin and smashing their kids' Wii consoles claiming it to be something of the devil.

I know this is absolutely ridiculous, but think about it. All those who misunderstand games shrug it off as being something hazardous, if it's put on the same league as something hazardous... well... Do the arithmetic.

In the case of alcohol, it's only hazardous if not used in moderation which could be said about computer games.

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

People declaring video games evil and smashing up consoles is nothing new and it happens every time there's a court case involving video games and someone dying, a new law isn't going to make it any more explosive.

Ya tobaco and alcohol have a logical reason to be restricted from minors, information via media not so much unless its porn, which has been shown to have a bit more than tinous link to have negative effects on minors.

Sure in todays world they can make a law to restrict media based on age(since the foundation of law has been mostly tossed out for feel good bull shit). But its kinda hard to sneak something like this through, at least to where its a smart and proactive law.... all they are is vague and dim laws made to get soemone votes....

But here's the thing about that, it'll be denounced as something possibly hazardous by the government itself, at first it was just neophobia. If this law gets the go-ahead, it'll be something in the likes of "alright! We've been saying this is evil since the 1980s, now the government backs us up! Video-games are child warping appliances of evil!" It's simply not a combination that bodes well.

 

[Torrasque]

The way I see it, this can either hop on a rocket luge down a cliff, or hit a brick wall.
If it hits a brick wall, nothing will happen, and games will still be games.
If it hops on the rocket luge though?

Games will start to be regulated by a body of people that have no idea what games really are.
This will cause existing games to go under heavy scrutiny and make all of us who play those existing games, go through alot of red tape and frustration just to play them.
Once games start to get regulated, won't the government start to regulate movies and books as well?
Games are nothing more than a medium in which developers and gamers can express themselves and have fun. Books and movies are the exact same in almost every respect (some books make me rage, some movies make me wish I got my money back).

Government regulation is bad, there is no better way I can say it, and in almost every case of everything, it is bad.

Before games should ever be thought to be regulated in USA, the government there should think about regulating the shit out of firearms.

 

[Torrasque]

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

If it was just a "you have to prove you are over 18 in order to play this game", I would be fine with that.
It would still be stupid, but not that bad.
Knowing the states though, it would probably be 21, which makes no fucking sense, and is really stupid.

However, I don't think that is the issue at hand.
I think the government (if this law goes through) will start to regulate all games so they are either less violent, or completely non-violent.
Which does not fly in any atmosphere.

 

[ckam]

If this passes, then other forms of media will also get regulated just as terribly.

 

[gigastar]

While i fully understand the potential long term impact of this on the gaming industry... in America at least (im currently exempt from the possible changes due to living in Europe), as far as i remembered this all started from the combo of manipulative children and doting parents. Once someone (on the Escapist forums) commented that he tried warning a mother about buying GTA4 for her son who seemed about 8, her response was along the lines of 'Oh, he just plays it for the driving' and a lesser known but none the less enraging (to the right people) incicent when a pair of japanese rape games turned up on Amazon.

After those and a few gaming-violence correlations by kids who evidently have no discipline then something like this turns up in a worst case senario, which it is.

Tomorrow is Judgement Day. Although i think that the world would be a better place without America im actually rooting for the gamers camp on this, on the off chance this upgrades to international law. Or even worse the EU decides its a good idea.

Besides the complete elimination of violence in gaming will have the same effect as a vampire on a human, it becomes a lifeless shell forced to bend to its masters will, or simply dead. This is the Worst Case Senario if the laws are passed.

Best we can hope for is proof of age when buying games to make sure theyre age appropiate for the buyer, in which case we can loophole the hell out of it like many of us do so with beer.

The way i think its going to go down if it passes is that game stores are going to partition the 18+ games into thier own section. Like in the old comic and video stores when you go hunting for some 'adult material'.

 

[Binerexis]

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

If it was just a "you have to prove you are over 18 in order to play this game", I would be fine with that.
It would still be stupid, but not that bad.
Knowing the states though, it would probably be 21, which makes no fucking sense, and is really stupid.

However, I don't think that is the issue at hand.
I think the government (if this law goes through) will start to regulate all games so they are either less violent, or completely non-violent.
Which does not fly in any atmosphere.

Actually, that's a good point, I forgot that in the US games are rated as 'Teen' or 'Mature' etc so I guess ID-ing over 21 could be possible. In terms of a policy of less or no violence not flying in any atmosphere, it certainly seems to keep altitude in Australia.


Is there a resource online at all which has the exact wording of the potential law?

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I know I'm a couple days late to all this discussion but if Video Games are regulated like alcohol and tobacco, doesn't that mean that you'll just have to prove you're over 18 for an 18+ rated game? I could be horribly wrong with that, I don't live in the US so it could be something different but would carding people buying age restricted media (e.g. Mature rated games, pornography) really be such a bad thing?

Yes, because the US has this annoying habit of being populated with the stupidest and most hypocritical conservative mummies this side of the hemisphere. If games are put on the same league as porn, alcohol and tobacco all the naysayers will go on a gloating spree the might of which our universe has not yet seen or heard. Going so far to start casting it off as a sin and smashing their kids' Wii consoles claiming it to be something of the devil.

I know this is absolutely ridiculous, but think about it. All those who misunderstand games shrug it off as being something hazardous, if it's put on the same league as something hazardous... well... Do the arithmetic.

In the case of alcohol, it's only hazardous if not used in moderation which could be said about computer games.

Again, I could have missed something here (in which case, link me to a reliable source about it) but wouldn't the whole getting ID'd for a video game only happen to check that you're over the age limit like with buying alcohol, tobacco or pornography? Or is it that you'll have to be over a certain age and provide ID for ANY video game (if that's the case, please show me some proof of that).

People declaring video games evil and smashing up consoles is nothing new and it happens every time there's a court case involving video games and someone dying, a new law isn't going to make it any more explosive.

Ya tobaco and alcohol have a logical reason to be restricted from minors, information via media not so much unless its porn, which has been shown to have a bit more than tinous link to have negative effects on minors.

Sure in todays world they can make a law to restrict media based on age(since the foundation of law has been mostly tossed out for feel good bull shit). But its kinda hard to sneak something like this through, at least to where its a smart and proactive law.... all they are is vague and dim laws made to get soemone votes....

But here's the thing about that, it'll be denounced as something possibly hazardous by the government itself, at first it was just xenophobia. If this law gets the go-ahead, it'll be something in the likes of "alright! We've been saying this is evil since the 1980s, now the government backs us up! Video-games are child warping appliances of evil!" It's simply not a combination that bodes well.

Not really at worst it can only be treated as a minor fine against an employee and even then that dose not have the precedent to be defended unless they cut and pasted a basic tobacco law minus the licenses bits . Even if you wind up with a worst case scenario of any game not being sold to minors period thats the worst it can come to as they can not block the flow of any media unless it has minors in quasi sexual settings then its fair game to ban/ sue soemone for owning hentai/manga/fictional things.

 

[LightOfDarkness]

Uhm, as far as I know. The law they are talking about just means violent videogames wont be able to legally be sold to minors. They do that in Canada already. Nothing has changed.

People need to calm down.

Regulated like pornography or drugs. They believe that video games are made by Satan and make children more violent, even Professor Layton.

 

[Torrasque]

If it was just a "you have to prove you are over 18 in order to play this game", I would be fine with that.
It would still be stupid, but not that bad.
Knowing the states though, it would probably be 21, which makes no fucking sense, and is really stupid.

However, I don't think that is the issue at hand.
I think the government (if this law goes through) will start to regulate all games so they are either less violent, or completely non-violent.
Which does not fly in any atmosphere.

Actually, that's a good point, I forgot that in the US games are rated as 'Teen' or 'Mature' etc so I guess ID-ing over 21 could be possible. In terms of a policy of less or no violence not flying in any atmosphere, it certainly seems to keep altitude in Australia.


Is there a resource online at all which has the exact wording of the potential law?

I found a couple pages that talk about "the issue at hand" that everyone here would be interested in seeing:
http://cei.org/studies-issue-analysis/politically-determined-entertainment-ratings-and-how-avoid-them
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704477904575586343221664702.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#articleTabs=article

In one of the articles, I found this quote: "I wouldn't compare videogames to Shakespeare," says James Steyer, founder of Common Sense Media, a San Francisco advocacy group that advises parents on materials it considers child-appropriate.

First off, I find it ironic that he is the founder of a company that has "Common Sense" in it, and he is arguing that video games cannot be compared to Shakespeare, when by definition, both video games and Shakespeare are mediums of self expression in part of the creator and the consumer. The only two notable differences between the two are that video games are more modern, and have an electronic medium.

I know this guy would say "would you compare one of the greatest creators of literature and storytelling in the English language, to a video game?" You bet your ass I would.
Many games that I have played have had a profound effect on me as a person, and many still are.

Is there not storytelling in games? Is there not character development in games?
While Shakespeare is regarded as amazingly good by alot of people, I really don't give a damn about alot of his stories (except MacBeth, that is win). The story in Fire Emblem however makes me actually give a damn about the characters, and I care about when a character is killed, or if a character gets the girl.

James Steyer clearely has never played a video game, and probably thinks a good time is reading Romeo and Juliet a billion times.

 

[Champion Argos]

That isn't the issue. If the supreme court desides that video games hold no artistic merit, the next step would actually be a "burn list". since games wont be protected by the constitution, short sighted law makers looking only for personal gain will start to BAN games of whatever types they can. They would do this to make themselves look better to certain voters.

 

[Zagzag]

Uhm, as far as I know. The law they are talking about just means violent videogames wont be able to legally be sold to minors. They do that in Canada already. Nothing has changed.

People need to calm down.

I totally agree with you, despite the fact that there are other reasons as well which I'm sure other people have already explained to you.

Tomorrow is Judgement Day. Although i think that the world would be a better place without America im actually rooting for the gamers camp on this, on the off chance this upgrades to international law. Or even worse the EU decides its a good idea.

I would say that Germany's existance pretty much garuntees this, except that here in Europe it is already illegal to sell games to underage children.