Lawyer Destroys Arguments for Game Piracy

ResonanceSD

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Gindil said:


People will pirate anything, including something that has the potential to cost one cent, if it means they don't have to pay for it.


Edit, and the fact that you're equating illegal activity to a market mechanism illustrates the problem the industry has with pirates. Pirates don't know how money works.
 

Sovvolf

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ResonanceSD said:
TheBear17 said:
Sovvolf said:

Here's a link to what I was talking about. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/how-the-us-convinced-spain-to-adopt-internet-censorship.ars

From Ars Technica.
An interesting read thank you, please accept my greatest apologies for the late reply, seems I got distracted with another thread. Seems all does not bare well though, with other countries adopting similar systems, your probably accurate in saying that Briton won't be far off doing it themselves :(.

I sincerely hope not. Though even if it didn't and only did legally affect the US, it would still heavily affect the rest of the world. Just, video game and movie review sites are also extremely important to the gaming industry. Having these sites at the mercy of video game companies might not be such a good idea. They could easily abuse such power, making it extremely risky to give a deserved game a bad review.
 

ThatDarnCoyote

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Lovely Mixture said:
Ignoring that saved games aren't the issue. Steam doesn't save your games online, that's an optional backup system. I don't know what you're talking about.
Well, I was mostly just taking a poke at Steam, with which I have a love-hate relationship.

But what I'm talking about is that my PC's networking functions are on the fritz. And when I try to "Continue Game" or load a save while in offline mode, I get a loading screen at first, then it dumps me back to the main menu, with a message that says "Disconnected: Steam validation rejected." I had similar issues with Steam games a couple years back, during a period when my cable internet service was spotty. People sing the praises of the Steam model, but it seems to cause me more pain than anything else.

Whether Steam is storing my saves or not, they're preventing me from getting to them while offline, which amounts to the same thing. If there's a work-around that you know of for this, I'd be sincerely grateful. I'm halfway through Portal 2 and would like to be able to finish! :)
 

ResonanceSD

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ThatDarnCoyote said:
Lovely Mixture said:
Ignoring that saved games aren't the issue. Steam doesn't save your games online, that's an optional backup system. I don't know what you're talking about.
Well, I was mostly just taking a poke at Steam, with which I have a love-hate relationship.

But what I'm talking about is that my PC's networking functions are on the fritz. And when I try to "Continue Game" or load a save while in offline mode, I get a loading screen at first, then it dumps me back to the main menu, with a message that says "Disconnected: Steam validation rejected." I had similar issues with Steam games a couple years back, during a period when my cable internet service was spotty. People sing the praises of the Steam model, but it seems to cause me more pain than anything else.

Whether Steam is storing my saves or not, they're preventing me from getting to them while offline, which amounts to the same thing. If there's a work-around that you know of for this, I'd be sincerely grateful. I'm halfway through Portal 2 and would like to be able to finish! :)
If steam stores your savegames in the steam cloud, they're located online. Your inability to access them is entirely your computer's problem.
 

ThatDarnCoyote

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ResonanceSD said:
If steam stores your savegames in the steam cloud, they're located online. Your inability to access them is entirely your computer's problem.
Thanks, I was afraid of that, but figured it to be the case. I don't remember asking to store my saves in the cloud, I'd rather have them locally, for the reasons LovelyMixture mentioned. Looks like I'll have to get the thing fixed.

But that was kind of my point: Steam is great if you have a reliable internet connection. If your internet is temporarily down for any reason (cables, hardware issues, whatever), not so great. This is a single-player game I bought a physical copy of, with a disk and a box and everything. I should be able to play it on an offline computer on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean if I want.
 

ResonanceSD

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ThatDarnCoyote said:
ResonanceSD said:
If steam stores your savegames in the steam cloud, they're located online. Your inability to access them is entirely your computer's problem.
Thanks, I was afraid of that, but figured it to be the case. I don't remember asking to store my saves in the cloud, I'd rather have them locally, for the reasons LovelyMixture mentioned. Looks like I'll have to get the thing fixed.

But that was kind of my point: Steam is great if you have a reliable internet connection. If your internet is temporarily down for any reason (cables, hardware issues, whatever), not so great. This is a single-player game I bought a physical copy of, with a disk and a box and everything. I should be able to play it on an offline computer on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean if I want.
I played the entirety of Driver: San Fransisco and Assassins Creed Revelations without an online connection. Yeah, without needing to launch steam or ubisoft DRM. How? By navigating to the game you've already downloaded and booting it up.
 

DELTA440

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easy way to fix pirating the publishers should reduce the price for games because as of now you get charged more for a game because they make you buy like 20 things of dlc before the game is released. Also they should make better quality games i mean i cant blame a guy that pirates a game when A 90% of the games have huge bugs that should have been addressed before release example saintrows the third how the fuck does the game freeze than have storyline quest issues and game engine issues IE car gets stuck in the ground or random death by nothing.

I would be pissed if i purchased a product that didnt work or didnt work as advertised so can you blame the pirates for these types of games. the solution is better game production and better quality assurance testing cause its unacceptable to have bugs like explianed above which is alot of games these days, hell half games are incomplete having you to download updates or fucking dlc to add to the game such as resident evil 5 wtf is multiplayer something i have to buy and not something that should have been core part of the game at the time of release.

Also all these game developers need to promote DEMOS this would drasticly reduce piracy if the gamers anticipating the game can get A FUCKING TASTE of it before they buy.
 

ResonanceSD

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DELTA440 said:
easy way to fix pirating the publishers should reduce the price for games because as of now you get charged more for a game because they make you buy like 20 things of dlc before the game is released. Also they should make better quality games i mean i cant blame a guy that pirates a game when A 90% of the games have huge bugs that should have been addressed before release example saintrows the third how the fuck does the game freeze than have storyline quest issues and game engine issues IE car gets stuck in the ground or random death by nothing.

I would be pissed if i purchased a product that didnt work or didnt work as advertised so can you blame the pirates for these types of games. the solution is better game production and better quality assurance testing cause its unacceptable to have bugs like explianed above which is alot of games these days, hell half games are incomplete having you to download updates or fucking dlc to add to the game such as resident evil 5 wtf is multiplayer something i have to buy and not something that should have been core part of the game at the time of release.

Also all these game developers need to promote DEMOS this would drasticly reduce piracy if the gamers anticipating the game can get A FUCKING TASTE of it before they buy.

As I said earlier, if there's anything the "price yourself" humble indie bundle proved, it's that people will pirate if the price is one dollar. Reducing prices will not do anything other than reduce revenue for the industry. With less revenue, you can bet that the quality of releases will drop.
 

Agiel7

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Even as a PC gamer to the bone, I really don't get the argument of "a pirated game isn't a lost sale." It's someone who *could* have bought the game and given the developer and publisher some well deserved money and it's someone who is *consuming* the product the publishers are selling.

I also don't get why some people don't like the 5 install limits; I don't know about them, but at the absolute most I'll install them on three (on my desktop, my laptop, and maybe my friend's or cousin's computer to show them what the game's like). What the hell are those people doing that they're complaining about the limit? Do they have a compulsive urge to go house to house installing it on everyone else's computers? ("Hello sir/madame. Do not be alarmed, I'm not here to rob you, I just have an overwhelming desire to install The Witcher 2 on your computer")

But by and large I actually kind of agree with this guy. Some DRM is okay (Steam, generous install limits, activation before installation), but there is a limit (Ubi's always on). Also provide paying customers a better service can help curb it; Starcraft, Company of Heroes, and Battlefield might have been pirated like it was going out of style, but the pirates got a massively gimped product (the first Starcraft I admittedly pirated like 11 years ago, but I wanted to try out the multiplayer, so I eventually bought the Battle Chest).

Also establish good relations with customers and reach out to them. For example, people like Hideo Kojima and companies like Relic can put it out to the community just how much their heart and souls went into making their games. By no stretch of the imagination will it erase piracy, but at the very least it could go a long way to stigmatize it.

At the same time, developers and publishers have to realize that factors like the world market (where piracy is the only way people can play a certain game), the proliferation of file-sharing, and the ingenuity of razor1911 or something or other will ensure that piracy will survive even the most absolute of reversals. But like how retailers and grocery stores cannot completely stop shoplifting, the games industry has to learn to accept some piracy and figure out better ways of mitigating it without pissing in the eyes of legitimate customers.
 

ResonanceSD

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Agiel7 said:
By no stretch of the imagination will it erase piracy, but at the very least it could go a long way to stigmatize it.
You mean it's not looked upon as bad, at all? Really?

And for someone to be ok with 5 install limits, but not always-online? Incongruous much?

For the record i'm the complete opposite. Anyone complaining about requiring always online in 2012 needs to PM me and tell me what it's like in the nineties. But the limitation of installs on a product you've purchased is just mental.
 

Agiel7

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ResonanceSD said:
Agiel7 said:
By no stretch of the imagination will it erase piracy, but at the very least it could go a long way to stigmatize it.
You mean it's not looked upon as bad, at all? Really?

And for someone to be ok with 5 install limits, but not always-online? Incongruous much?

For the record i'm the complete opposite. Anyone complaining about requiring always online in 2012 needs to PM me and tell me what it's like in the nineties. But the limitation of installs on a product you've purchased is just mental.
We haven't quite gotten to that point where internet connections both on the ISP and the owner's router side are as reliable as cable TV and hardline phones are now. Don't believe me? Try living in the San Raf dorm at UCSB where your connection is at the mercy of your fellow dorm-mates and university residential services.

And perhaps you can enlighten me as to why install limits are such a big deal. You haven't been breaking into random peoples' homes to ninja-install the Witcher 2 on their computers, have you?
 

Gindil

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ResonanceSD said:
Gindil said:


People will pirate anything, including something that has the potential to cost one cent, if it means they don't have to pay for it.


Edit, and the fact that you're equating illegal activity to a market mechanism illustrates the problem the industry has with pirates. Pirates don't know how money works.
On the contrary, they do. They understand that they're underserved customers that the industry is ignoring to try to extrapolate massive amounts of money from them for inferior service.

But you don't have to take my word for it. If you can sit here and argue against Gabe Newell [http://www.gamefront.com/gabe-newell-piracy-is-a-non-issue/] and explain how he's made Russia his second largest market in Europe with copyright, then I'm all ears.
 

CaptOfSerenity

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DVS BSTrD said:
I only really take issue with dismissing "not a lost sale" and "If they made better games". I'm not going to say that fixing these will bring an end to piracy, but all this I keep hearing about the absurd overpricing some escapist member have to deal with. This coupled with the fact that there ARE a lot of games that, while fun, are NOT worth $60 ("wait until the price drops, then give it a try") certainly contribute. That coupled with postponed regional release dates and outright limited releasing. I had some friends in my last college who pirated and shared a game simply because there was no way to get in America, it was only released in Japan and one of them had a connection.
You know videogames are cheaper than they were in the 1990's right?
 

ResonanceSD

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Gindil said:
ResonanceSD said:
Gindil said:


People will pirate anything, including something that has the potential to cost one cent, if it means they don't have to pay for it.


Edit, and the fact that you're equating illegal activity to a market mechanism illustrates the problem the industry has with pirates. Pirates don't know how money works.
On the contrary, they do. They understand that they're underserved customers that the industry is ignoring to try to extrapolate massive amounts of money from them for inferior service.

But you don't have to take my word for it. If you can sit here and argue against Gabe Newell [http://www.gamefront.com/gabe-newell-piracy-is-a-non-issue/] and explain how he's made Russia his second largest market in Europe with copyright, then I'm all ears.
Hah, none of what you've said actually excuses piracy.
 

F4LL3N

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ResonanceSD said:
F4LL3N said:
People finally realize the truth. It's the developer/publishers fault, not ours. They've fucked themselves over by punishing their customers and making shitty games.
So people still want to consume content, and not pay for it. If the content is so bad, why would people still want to play it?
They probably don't want to play it once they've realized how worthless it is. Or maybe they want to play it, but don't think it's worth $50-100.
 

ResonanceSD

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F4LL3N said:
ResonanceSD said:
F4LL3N said:
People finally realize the truth. It's the developer/publishers fault, not ours. They've fucked themselves over by punishing their customers and making shitty games.
So people still want to consume content, and not pay for it. If the content is so bad, why would people still want to play it?
They probably don't want to play it once they've realized how worthless it is. Or maybe they want to play it, but don't think it's worth $50-100.


Uh huh. That's not a defence. For anything.
 

Phototoxin

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What about people like me who have no less than 4 copies of baldurs gate 2, and yet I use the ISO these days to make life easier? Is this illegal?

What happens if I own a game like Dungeon Keeper 2 which doesn't work on windows 7 but I download a modified version that does? (or a GOG installer that works on windows 7?) I have a licence for the game (infact 2 as my first disk wore out) and isn't that what we're buying these days so is that legitimate?

Maybe I want to play space marine on my non-internet enabled computer, so although I own a physical copy of the game (and it's installed on my PC) maybe I need to get a cracked version for my other computer?
 

Tax_Document

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bombadilillo said:
brainslurper said:
LilithSlave said:
but in the meantime it means a financial loss for the developer
NO, it does not. That logic is incredibly erroneous.
Yes it does. They worked hard on something, and what would be a paying customer got it without paying for it, depriving the developer or their profit.
The problem is you assume they WOULD be a paying customer. With or without piracy existing,there is no money that would go to the developer.

It is wrong to call it a lost sale. The sale doesn't exists, would not exist if piracy wasn't a thing.
I bet you if no one could pirate games anymore, game sales would go higher.

Stop trying to defend illegal activity, no amount of arguing will make the Courts think stealing is right.
 

harvz

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just going to say it, both sides of the argument are idiots.
piracy doesn't directly harm the publishers/developers (check their profits), but it can if people dont feel a want/need to have the paid product (this is why DRM will never work, why pay $110 for a game with horrible DRM when you can just play the DRM-free pirated version. DRM is one of the biggest things that can really hurt...and 2nd hand)

I guess all anyone can say is that steam is acceptable
steam has:
-has the library to sort your games
-manages any keys to ensure you never loose the manual
-regular sales (at massive savings)
-ensures you will always have access to your games
-does the DRM stuff separately and efficiently
-chat
-gifting
-a community
-other stuff

steam is pretty much the only example i can think of where its DRM done right.