League of Legends Tournament: LGBT Players Have "Unfair Advantage" - Update

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Ferisar

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whereswarren said:
Could you please explain your points a little more clearly? No offence intended, I'd just like to understand your point of view.
In that I don't believe the person you quoted is wrong in the regard to why this ruling was made, but it doesn't make it any less silly. If you want to avoid people exploiting lax or vague rulings in relation to who can enter a tourney, you don't go after the assumed guise that these people might take. If you want straight men not to abuse these rules, have, as a previous poster suggested, a "we'll remove you for reasons we feel are appropriate" rule so that you don't have to deal with them. Instead it drew attention because of poor communication and lack of foresight. Even beyond the surface level, it feels like a throw-away in terms of decision making.

Either way, not an issue anymore, so there it is.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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I would like to know, what advantage they thought the LGBT community possessed. And professional gaming isn't the same as athletic based sports, one gender doesn't have an advantage over the other, there shouldn't be a Men's and Women's divisions. Just lump them all on the same teams.
 

Storm Dragon

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This might just be the flimsiest excuse I've ever seen used in an attempt to justify discrimination.
 

WendelI

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All i see here is some breeders trying to put down the gay man due to our superior gaming skill! /s
 

Strazdas

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deth2munkies said:
It sucks, but some kind of rule like this is a necessity in gendered tournaments in order to preserve the integrity of the event. It has nothing to do with suggesting that females are worse at gaming or anything like that. Merely that they're underrepresented currently, and the entire point of the tournament is to give female teams exposure to hopefully go pro and bring some diversity to the scene.
If you have to clearly ban all males to the point of even banning male teams that identify as female for them not to "clean house" with then then yes it very clearly implies that females are worse at the game. because if the female teams were as good, just not as exposed, they wouldnt loose here.



Doom972 said:
How do they even enforce this? Do they ask participants what their sexual orientation when they register? That alone sounds offensive to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
uh, what? asking your sexual orientation is offensive? this is exacly whats wrong with the whole "offense" culture.

inu-kun said:
I find it pretty ironic that in an event discriminating man from entering they are being blamed of discrimination for restricting LGBT from entering
didnt you get the memo. discriminating against males are impossible just like raping males are impossible. You can even suggest of such things happening ever without adopting variuos labels feminists like to throw around.



Risingblade said:
The reason is because there are barely any female players in the tournament leagues. Pretty much 0 in the world championships, so pretty much the idea was probably to get more women involved in pro play.
so instead of having sports where the best people win we must have sports that made sure that a number of females win because gender quotas.

Xiado said:
Same reason why Usain Bolt can't say he identifies as a woman and then set sprinting records that no woman is capable of beating.
So you are saying that males have biological superiority in videogames?


McElroy said:
And thus the pro-scene remained 100% male. The End.
because no female has managed to play as well as a male and they required special tournament just for them, right?

Alma Mare said:
Gotta love that even after being spoon-fed the reason behind this (incredibly stupid) ruling the average Escapist still goes on a tirade about gender equality and social justice. Beautiful.
probably because the reason is sexism.
 

blackrave

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Deathfish15 said:
Scorpid said:
... so trangendered men are good to go? Also I'm confused by transgendered women. Is it natural females transitioning to males or males transitioning to females? If your going to be a bigot at least tell us exactly what it is you are aiming at exactly. Oh what does it matter you're wrong anyway.

Also the idea there needs to be a girls only tournament at all seems bizarre. Are women at a natural advantage/disadvantage in league or are the men such savages that they can't control themselves around female competitors.
Hit the nail right on the freakin' head. Men are assholes to other men in the game, but when they find out a woman is in their match it becomes far worse and degrading. The vulgarity turns up 20 fold and it becomes a nightmarish scene similar to that of a lone woman walking down middle row in between prison blocks. Yes, LoLers can be compared to prisons in vulgarity and social disgust.


O.T. I think their wording is wrong on this and they went to broad with the regulation. I completely understand that they don't want teams filled with males identifying as females or post-op sex changed males either. They want a tournament for women to be strictly for women and not male dominated through circumstances (i.e. extreme circumcision)
As much as I like a good trash talking, since this is supposed to be PROFESSIONAL tournament why not release rules regulating level of trash talk (with disqualification being punishment)?
I don't know much about LoL, but I can't believe it is played mainly by uncontrollable assholes or that you have much time to trash talk during games themselves.

P.S. Also I hope that for shit'n'giggles they pit winners of this hugbox tournament against winners of actual tournament.
 

Doom972

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Strazdas said:
Doom972 said:
How do they even enforce this? Do they ask participants what their sexual orientation when they register? That alone sounds offensive to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
uh, what? asking your sexual orientation is offensive? this is exacly whats wrong with the whole "offense" culture.
Context is everything. When answering this question is a condition in order to participate in a video game tournament, it is offensive to many people who don't like answering very personal questions for strangers.

Anyway, it looks like their intention was to prevent genetically male participants from joining the tournament, and that they eventually decided to just make it all-inclusive and allow everyone who identifies as female to join.
 

Strazdas

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Doom972 said:
Strazdas said:
Doom972 said:
How do they even enforce this? Do they ask participants what their sexual orientation when they register? That alone sounds offensive to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
uh, what? asking your sexual orientation is offensive? this is exacly whats wrong with the whole "offense" culture.
Context is everything. When answering this question is a condition in order to participate in a video game tournament, it is offensive to many people who don't like answering very personal questions for strangers.

Anyway, it looks like their intention was to prevent genetically male participants from joining the tournament, and that they eventually decided to just make it all-inclusive and allow everyone who identifies as female to join.
In the words of Stefen Fry - well, so fucking what?

It does not matter what is "offensive". "offensive" is meaningless, nothing more than pointless whine. All it says is "i dont like it therefore noone should". If you have a tournament that is discriminating against non-females, then its perfectly reasonable to expect it to ask you if you are a female.
 

Qvar

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Aug 25, 2013
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deth2munkies said:
Basically what they're scared of is a male LPL team suddenly identifying themselves as female to just clean up the tournament. I mean that's the problem with gendered tournaments nowadays. The whole point is to get women into playing LoL at a high level and get some more exposure to hopefully fix the 100% male pro scene. You can't really do that if guys exploit the ridiculous sensitivity displayed to the issue by just claiming they've always identified as female. It's not something you can actually refute since it's an internal state of mind, and trying to find actual brightlines is just a minefield to the politically correct.

It sucks, but some kind of rule like this is a necessity in gendered tournaments in order to preserve the integrity of the event. It has nothing to do with suggesting that females are worse at gaming or anything like that. Merely that they're underrepresented currently, and the entire point of the tournament is to give female teams exposure to hopefully go pro and bring some diversity to the scene.

EDIT: The best way to actually do this without causing a fuss is a simple "may disqualify any team for any reason" clause, which would let them spontaneously stop this kind of abuse, but not have to seem intolerant.
Why did they have to say that gays might have an unfair advantage, instead of "to stop people from gaming the rules"? It's themselves who's making them look like idiots.
 

Grumman

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Jandau said:
I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body. Can I join?
Yes. Crush your enemies. Hear the lamentations of their women. Watch them tie themselves in knots trying to say you're not a woman without saying you're not a woman.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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inu-kun said:
Entitled said:
CrystalShadow said:
Not that banning trans-people alone is particularly fair, but at least you can follow the reasoning involved (however flawed the logic behind it may be.)
But banning lesbians and bisexuals? That makes very little sense on any level...
They are not banning "lesbians" or "trans-people", but the bakla [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakla].

The clear distinction between heterosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, and transsexuals, is a modern western concept that the Philippines don't happen to entirely share.
So the real story here is, "people don't understand different culture, blames them for discrimination"

Especially ironic seeing SJW already gearing up and mentioning racism.
And Riot Games is based in the US and their main demographic is the 18-30 crowd, which a majority of favor LGBT rights. It would shock me that no one at that organization stopped to think about what Riots' thoughts on this would be. Does anyone think Wizards wouldn't immediately drop a sponsor or tourney site if they tried something like this?
 

elvor0

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Queen Michael said:
Could someone please explain why people like me are supposed to have an unfair advantage?
You might confuzzle their silly little heads and shake their confidence thus stopping them from playing at peak ability, clearly! Though to be fair, I'm not entirely sure if the trans blanket here includes executive transvestitism or is limited to post op transexuals/people who identify as the opposite gender.

OT: Banning Gay or Bi is insane. If anything it would give your team a disadvantage, cos I don't know you were eying up the jubblies on the other team when you were supposed to be paying attention to the game.

However, to play devils advocate, I would say that not allowing the situation where a team of guys just strolls up and says "yeah we all identify as women", thus negating the point that's at an all female tournement to be kind of fair enough. Post op Transexuals are fine, but there's no measuring stick of how genuine a guy saying "I'm a girl" is. You could identify as female all you like, but it wouldn't make it so.
 

Doom972

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Strazdas said:
Doom972 said:
Strazdas said:
Doom972 said:
How do they even enforce this? Do they ask participants what their sexual orientation when they register? That alone sounds offensive to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
uh, what? asking your sexual orientation is offensive? this is exacly whats wrong with the whole "offense" culture.
Context is everything. When answering this question is a condition in order to participate in a video game tournament, it is offensive to many people who don't like answering very personal questions for strangers.

Anyway, it looks like their intention was to prevent genetically male participants from joining the tournament, and that they eventually decided to just make it all-inclusive and allow everyone who identifies as female to join.
In the words of Stefen Fry - well, so fucking what?

It does not matter what is "offensive". "offensive" is meaningless, nothing more than pointless whine. All it says is "i dont like it therefore noone should". If you have a tournament that is discriminating against non-females, then its perfectly reasonable to expect it to ask you if you are a female.
We seem to have a misunderstanding here. Asking about sexual orientation doesn't mean asking "Are you male or female?", which is a reasonable question. Asking about sexual orientation means asking "Are you straight or gay?".
 

spartan231490

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Well, technically, they do have an advantage. Male brains have a shorter response time to visual stimuli, so would a transgender female. That said, I'm not sure that 200-300 milliseconds is all that much of an advantage in league of legends. If it was, I imagine LCS teams with more men would win more often.
 

Lightknight

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EDIT: whoa, their argument is against all LGBT players. I thought it was just about Transgendered females. No idea where they got the idea that a Lesbian would have an unfair advantage over a heterosexual female. Take the below commentary on the advantage that transgendered females have over typical females with that in mind.

Xiado said:
What the fuck does being transgender have to do with not being able to play a video game against players of their identified gender?
At first I thought this was ridiculously silly that they were distinguishing gender as if it were a physical sport. Just like you. But when I saw your post I suddenly remembered, males are known to have evolved an advantage in reaction time that is not overcome with practice (even comparing athletes).

Article comparing Olympic Sprinters' reaction times. [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026141] Interestingly enough, they started with a hypothesis that they had to retract (that changing the jump-start threshold would make the reaction times similar, instead they found that men still had the advantage by a fair margin).

Compilation of studies in a Clemson course regarding reaction time. [http://biae.clemson.edu/bpc/bp/lab/110/reaction.htm] The segment on differences by sex are below.

"Gender. At the risk of being politically incorrect, in almost every age group, males have faster reaction times than females, and female disadvantage is not reduced by practice (Noble et al., 1964; Welford, 1980; Adam et al., 1999; Dane and Erzurumlugoglu, 2003; Der and Deary, 2006). The last study is remarkable because it included over 7400 subjects. Bellis (1933) reported that mean time to press a key in response to a light was 220 msec for males and 260 msec for females; for sound the difference was 190 msec (males) to 200 msec (females). In comparison, Engel (1972) reported a reaction time to sound of 227 msec (male) to 242 msec (female). However, things may be changing--Silverman (2006) reported evidence that the male advantage in visual reaction time is getting smaller (especially outside the US), possibly because more women are participating in driving and fast-action sports. Spierer et al. (2010) reported that when male soccer players were compared with female lacrosse players, males were able to respond faster to both visual and auditory stimuli. They said that the male advantage was greatest when using visual stimuli. Botwinick and Thompson (1966) found that almost all of the male-female difference was accounted for by the lag between the presentation of the stimulus and the beginning of muscle contraction. Muscle contraction times were the same for males and females. In a surprising finding, Szinnai et al. (2005) found that gradual dehydration (loss of 2.6% of body weight over a 7-day period) caused females to have lengthened choice reaction time, but males to have shortened choice reaction times. Adam et al. (1999) reported that males use a more complex strategy than females. Barral and Debu (2004) found that while men were faster than women at aiming at a target, the women were more accurate. Bayless et al. (2012) found that when a choice reaction time task was made more challenging for rats by weak stimuli and distraction, male rats tended to "jump the gun" and make premature responses, but female rats were more likely to miss valid stimuli. Note that this study used rats, not humans. Jevas and Yan (2001) reported that age-related deterioration in reaction time was the same in men and women. "

So... I'm astounded to learn that men do actually have an advantage in certain types of games. If league of legends requires rapid reaction times then they actually weren't necessarily wrong to claim this as an unfair advantage to have in a women's tournament. I've never played the game so I don't know how necessary reaction time is. Looks like a top-down RTS style game so I wouldn't think it'd matter that much but at a professional level? Maybe. I'm not the one to know. The primary question is how much of an advantage is reaction time (e.g. how do male teams fare against female teams at upper levels of competition)?

Wow, I learn something new every day. I was absolutely planning to come out of the gate ridiculing them for their decision but it appears that their caving to pressures was potentially at the expense of a level playing field. Maybe there are too few transgendered individuals playing it to make a difference? What's more is that actual skill can vary so much as to easily make the faster reaction time less important against a more skilled player.

We're in a delicate position where we (society) want transgendered individuals to be treated like the gender they identify as and with all the respect that demands while also knowing that they can never truly be physically the other gender unless science advances drastically beyond hormonal supplementation and surgical alterations. It's potentially unfair to ignore that they are different and intellectually dishonest. But I understand the conflict of interests in that we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or make anyone feel like something is wrong with them. But in all honesty, they represent a third or fourth gender/sex combination rather than one of the traditional binary representation.
 

Risingblade

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Strazdas said:
Risingblade said:
The reason is because there are barely any female players in the tournament leagues. Pretty much 0 in the world championships, so pretty much the idea was probably to get more women involved in pro play.
so instead of having sports where the best people win we must have sports that made sure that a number of females win because gender quotas.
What the hell is wrong with you? There's already a league for the best teams in the world, the whole point of these tournaments is to give attention to female players. We can easily have both.
 

eatenbyagrue

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On behalf of the people in this country, I apologize and am ready to accept your scorn. We are all assholes.

Seriously though, speaking from experience, Filipino LoL players are the worst. Far as I can tell, they're the only people in the world who will taunt you for having the money to buy skins. And champions. Because most of them just use the free champions.
 

Ishigami

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jurnag12 said:
Which would exclude transwomen who choose not to or have not yet undergone genital reconstruction, and provide an entry for transmen and any bloke with severe damage to their genitals.
Which is A.) the point and B.) taking everything literally is not clever.

jurnag12 said:
Which defeats the point of a women-only tournament.
No it doesn't, it enforces it.

jurnag12 said:
Not to mention that essentially asking people to show you their junk so you can check their gender is a breach of privacy and an all-around awful thing to do.
My suggestion is to ignore the gender and use the sexes which yields a binary solution.
How this can be done or even should be done is not relevant. What is relevant is that I favor clear and simple rules that piss people off over a blurry mess that still pisses people off.
If someone wants to separate women from men then they should simply do it and not fuck around. They already discriminate against about 49 to 48% of the population might as well add another 1 to 2% and do it thoroughly.