So err do they think a LGBT player is some kind of an OP player?
Yes I read the update but I still wanted to comment the above statement!
Yes I read the update but I still wanted to comment the above statement!
League of Legends Tournament: LGBT Players Have "Unfair Advantage" - Update
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
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The only apparent justification is with the T of LGBT(don't know why they include LGB in the topic). Specifically transgendered females (born physically male but identify as the female gender) since males have a faster reaction time than women.Scarim Coral said:
It's not that they're necessarily OP. It's just that it's an unfair advantage in a women's tourney. Just like we have a surprisingly large number of transgendered female champions in women's sports (tennis, golf, UFC, track). Some advantages don't go away just because you identify as something else and even if you've been receiving hormonal supplementation.
But the LGB part of LGBT? No idea what they're thinking.
Blame it on Filipinos not being very enlightened. There's still a lot of misconceptions about how non-straight, non-cis people work, something that isn't helped by the fact that Filipinos are very much under the control of the Catholic Church (or rather, the Catholic Bishop's Conference of the Philippines), which tends to enforce extremely conservative ideals, to the point of fighting a government law that would introduce Sex Education to the secondary school curriculum. You laugh, but their interference has held this law up since the early 90s.Scarim Coral said:
On a strange note though, most Filipinos aren't as virulently anti-homosexual like how I've seen other people in other countries so we're fairly progressive in that regard.
Sounds to me that Pope Francis should visit that conference-eatenbyagrue said:
http://eamel.tumblr.com/post/109598613573/smexyaspie-beccapaintmore-stressfracture-d
(Scroll down to read that he denounced homosexual people.)
He was actually in the country a few weeks ago, and did in fact have a conference with them. They just didn't listen. And living hear, you become desensitized to just how bad the clergy is here: they've been known to not only protect and cover up priests who've committed rape, they also threaten and bully the families of the abused to buy their silence. They actively oppose politicians who attempt to modernize pretty much anything in the country, take bribes from other politicians for their support, and have done everything they can to antagonize the Muslim population (there's a significant number of Muslims living in the country, mostly concentrated in the southern part)Scarim Coral said:
This is somewhat vaguely true to some extent, although very poorly thought/worded from the tournament organiser.
For example, imagine if you had a female-only Street Fighter IV tournament...and this person was allowed to enter:
Ricky Ortiz is a top 10 player currently in the process of becoming a transgender female. I have absolutely no doubts he/she would DESTROY all cis-female players who entered said tournament. Not even the slightest doubt. It would be extremely unfair in all definition of the word.
It's somewhat similar to the issue of transgender females being allowed to enter female sports competitions.
For example, imagine if you had a female-only Street Fighter IV tournament...and this person was allowed to enter:
Ricky Ortiz is a top 10 player currently in the process of becoming a transgender female. I have absolutely no doubts he/she would DESTROY all cis-female players who entered said tournament. Not even the slightest doubt. It would be extremely unfair in all definition of the word.
It's somewhat similar to the issue of transgender females being allowed to enter female sports competitions.
There's no lack of evidence for this. What contributes to it is of course up for debate (e.g. they feel pressured not to enter, or whatever)...but as it currently stands women are almost non-existent at higher levels of tournament play in most (if not all) genres.Ickorus said:
Could someone who is more LoL-literate enlighten me. First of all Im glad they reversed the ruling but im just confused on why there are apparently separate male and female tournaments.
To preface my only experience with e-sports is basically the recent SMITE world championships and what they basically did was have a bunch of competitions and the teams that won those went to worlds. Is it the same thing in LoL or not? From what I gathered ITT there were only men at the LoL world championships whenever that happened and because of that the female tournaments were made to give female teams... exposure?
Do you have to rack up popularity points or something to qualify for LoL worlds? Or do the winners of female only tourneys get send to bigger tourneys and eventually sent to worlds? Or do they compete against the male only tourney winners first before going to a mixed tourney before going to worlds?
Or are these female only tourneys wholly disconnected from the worlds qualifying process and are just one off things and the worlds qualifiers are already mixed tourneys with their own ladder? If they're just one shot things then how do they help? And if the female players only get to scrim and compete against other female players aren't they still missing out on valuable experience since they aren't getting a feel for how the top male players who went to worlds play?
I just don't really understand what is going on.
To preface my only experience with e-sports is basically the recent SMITE world championships and what they basically did was have a bunch of competitions and the teams that won those went to worlds. Is it the same thing in LoL or not? From what I gathered ITT there were only men at the LoL world championships whenever that happened and because of that the female tournaments were made to give female teams... exposure?
Do you have to rack up popularity points or something to qualify for LoL worlds? Or do the winners of female only tourneys get send to bigger tourneys and eventually sent to worlds? Or do they compete against the male only tourney winners first before going to a mixed tourney before going to worlds?
Or are these female only tourneys wholly disconnected from the worlds qualifying process and are just one off things and the worlds qualifiers are already mixed tourneys with their own ladder? If they're just one shot things then how do they help? And if the female players only get to scrim and compete against other female players aren't they still missing out on valuable experience since they aren't getting a feel for how the top male players who went to worlds play?
I just don't really understand what is going on.
Ok I shall try to explain it to the best of my ability .-.VectorSlip said:
You don't need to the popularity to go to worlds, you need it to get picked up by one of the big teams or to get your team sponsored. A lot of teams have players imported from other regions, traded from other teams etc. Now most of these world class teams live and play together in house, so you could imagine how awkward it could be for a female to live in a house with a bunch of other guys.
This tournament isn't associated with worlds at all, you need to qualify for the LCS League to be able to play for the chance at going to worlds. So the point of this tourney is pretty much to showcase talent, maybe get a female team started that might possibly be able to qualify for the big leagues.
Adding to the other reply, I haven't even heard of any other girl-only tournament series apart from this Iron Solari League. I bet it's not the only one out there, but still. It's still way far away from being a pro tournament, the winning team gets about 100 dollars' worth of pesos (minus the entry fee, and then it's of course dealt five ways). It's this reporting of its half-assed ruling that makes it remarkable in any way. There are probably hundreds of tournaments in other parts of Asia hosted by dozens of different entities and all of them might have the craziest rules, but we don't hear about them here since all the info is in Chinese or Korean or Japanese and so on (this is just a hunch, I could be wrong). But Garena Philippines has its esports page in English, and it's not too hard to find out this is the second ISL tournament we're all talking about! Nobody gave a flying donkey about the first tournament with its ruling being "Only Girl Summoners are allowed to join." Maybe they had to turn away a transwoman back then (again, just a hunch), three weeks ago and felt bad for it thus making the rule that they now changed. It's the translation oversight that made this into such grand news.VectorSlip said:
Just look at the fb comments here: http://esports.garena.ph/newsArticle.php?contentid=00000586&cat=NEWS&subcat=LEAGUE%20OF%20LEGENDS February 2015, the end of innocence. One shoddy ruling and alas the presses were halted and clickbait was created.
It comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of what a trans-person is here. Blame it on people here not really being that well-educated.McElroy said:
That said, I heard that the reason they had to do a "Girls Only" tournament is that LoL is apparently really popular with girls (and I do see that: I'd say there's an equal ratio of men:women playing whenever I see people at internet cafes)
Oh, so its like the combine that happened recently with smite. Basically they opened up sign up sheets and you made a team and played against other teams that signed up while coaches and scouts and such looked at your play and evaluated you. Coincidentally a similar discussion sprung up about the issue of making a girls only combine. The overwhelming majority opinion was that it was counterproductive. That women should be encouraged to participate in the regular tourney and combines so that their skill could be properly evaluated against all other players of all genders. That standouts will be standouts and get picked up if they truly deserve it. Smite is much, much smaller than LoL so that can lead to some extreme differences in situation but I tend to agree with that sentiment.Risingblade said:
Yeah, I've read about the "Balka" mistranslation situation that lead to this situation catching fire, and I do think that is unfortunate. Im sure the organizers had the best of intentions but things got flubbed up along the way. But it all seems to be water under the bridge now.McElroy said:
Quoted for truth. It does make sense they would want to do something like this.deth2munkies said:
OT: I don't get why the term LBGT is used. Because the term is too broad for a female only competition. I get that they're trying to root out the guys claiming to identify as female (because people can lie for prize money) but also excluding gay people seems weird.
Keep in mind that from what I read they also included Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals. They just said LGBT. I agree with you on the transgendered component for the reasons I stated at the top of this page (assuming this post doesn't pop me into the next page). But as far as I can tell there are no such inherent disparities in girls that like other girls. What's more is did this mean the teams can have one gay man on their lineup? Do they not understand that LGBT isn't just transgendered people?Aaron Sylvester said:This is somewhat vaguely true to some extent, although very poorly thought/worded from the tournament organiser.
For example, imagine if you had a female-only Street Fighter IV tournament...and this person was allowed to enter:
Ricky Ortiz is a top 10 player currently in the process of becoming a transgender female. I have absolutely no doubts he/she would DESTROY all cis-female players who entered said tournament. Not even the slightest doubt. It would be extremely unfair in all definition of the word.
It's somewhat similar to the issue of transgender females being allowed to enter female sports competitions.
One contributing component is the one I stated above. That males have a natural advantage in reaction times by a fair margin and that reaction time disparity is highest to visual cues (aka vidya games).
Additionally, differences in how we process spatial awareness also differ with males having the advantage. Even mythbusters tackled and confirmed that bit. Why this would translate into being able to manipulate a 3D environment on a 2D interface should be obvious.
The plus side is that women have other qualities that men don't. Like the ability to multi-task at a higher level than most men. So there must be some sort of trade off there. I wonder if that means that some games can be made that require so much multi-tasking as to give women the advantage or if that reaction time compensates too much?
I would *love* to sit down for a pleasant lunchtime chat with the people who made this decision, just to listen to the insane anti-logic they employed when doing so.
i can see the problem with transgender women being included but i cant see how bisexual or homosexual women might have an unfair advantage in any way shape or form
No, i understand what you meant. i just dont agree with you.Doom972 said:
So the whole point of this tournament is to be discriminatory against men? nothing new i guess.Risingblade said:
Heres the deal. if the players were good, they would get attention regardless of thier gender. if they arent good, artificial attention wont make them better.
so what you are saying is that females suck at videogames?Aaron Sylvester said:
Because if that is false then your whole premise is false.
I think they're referring to trans women who still have their male bodily advantages, such as greater hand eye coordination and spacial awareness, but then again, I don't know what the effect differing chemistries of trans and normal brains have on such advantages. It's likely that, since the LGBT community like to present themselves as a single conglomeration, the tournament opted to err on the side of caution and ban the entire lot of them.Sniper Team 4 said:
This reminds me of the controversy surrounding a transgendered MMA fighter who fought in the woman's league, despite being technically biologically male. I don't think I need to explain why people might have an issue with that.
Did anyone else notice this as well?:
"...recently announced that it would be running an "Iron Solari all-feminine tournament" in the region"
followed by:
"We always want to make sure we are able to have an inclusive environment where no one feels left out,"
So we want an inclusive environment where no one feels left out, but 50% of the population aren't allowed to participate because they're cis-gendered males?
Anyway, I get that there are slight differences in hand-eye coordination and reaction time and what-not, but the way I look at it is to hell with it; just make these tournaments open to everyone and let anyone participate. You can wargame how to make the playing field 'level and fair' till you're blue in the face, at some point you just have to acknowledge that things are never going to be 100% level or 100% fair, and just let people play the game.
"...recently announced that it would be running an "Iron Solari all-feminine tournament" in the region"
followed by:
"We always want to make sure we are able to have an inclusive environment where no one feels left out,"
So we want an inclusive environment where no one feels left out, but 50% of the population aren't allowed to participate because they're cis-gendered males?
Anyway, I get that there are slight differences in hand-eye coordination and reaction time and what-not, but the way I look at it is to hell with it; just make these tournaments open to everyone and let anyone participate. You can wargame how to make the playing field 'level and fair' till you're blue in the face, at some point you just have to acknowledge that things are never going to be 100% level or 100% fair, and just let people play the game.