Left 4 Dead 2 Australian Appeal Fails

[DTWolfwood]

lol yall have gone as far as to ban hugging in primary school so why would they change their minds on this matter!

(well aware that one has nothing to do with the other, merely pointing out the insanity that is Australia XD)

 

[ae86gamer]

I feel sorry for my fellow gamers in Australia. :[

[sub]They should import the game if they can. :][/sub]

 

[T-Bone24]

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

That attitude really annoys me.

 

[nonW00t]

What a slap in the face to the descendants of criminals!!!

 

[Fenixius]

I just re read what I posted up and it needs a major editing. What I meant to say was that's what I'd heard was being put in place to stop people from just exporting from overseas. The source is a friend of mine who's really into this whole thing but like a lot of things friends say it could all be crap.

Either way, an IP-based system is doomed to fail for multiple reasons:

Firstly, I could just disconnect myself from the internet. All of a sudden, my IP is -gone-, and I can still play Steam in Offline mode. Wouldn't I be able to get all the content then?

Secondly, I could just grab an international proxy. My IP is immediately masked behind this non-Australian IP, and then the detection would throw a false-positive, and I'd unlock the gore.

Thirdly, the Australian Classification Board classifies what's on the disk, not the game itself. This is a very fine distinction: It's what allowed World of Warcraft to be sold here for a good 5 years without being rated. The same reason that the Hot Coffee dispute mattered in Australia, too; the content was on the disk. Accessible or not, it was still there. They wouldn't be able to sell a copy of Left 4 Dead 2 which does not conform to the rating given; it would be a criminal offense to do so.

...and that's why IP-based detection would never possibly work. I suggest you either ask your friend for clarification, and then ask him where he heard what he did, or tell him he's been lied to.

 

[Kiefer13]

I don't even live in Australia and this is a major disappointment. I feel sorry for Australian gamers, having to put up with this kind of idiocy.

 

[Osloq]

I just re read what I posted up and it needs a major editing. What I meant to say was that's what I'd heard was being put in place to stop people from just exporting from overseas. The source is a friend of mine who's really into this whole thing but like a lot of things friends say it could all be crap.

Either way, an IP-based system is doomed to fail for multiple reasons:

Firstly, I could just disconnect myself from the internet. All of a sudden, my IP is -gone-, and I can still play Steam in Offline mode. Wouldn't I be able to get all the content then?

Secondly, I could just grab an international proxy. My IP is immediately masked behind this non-Australian IP, and then the detection would throw a false-positive, and I'd unlock the gore.

Thirdly, the Australian Classification Board classifies what's on the disk, not the game itself. This is a very fine distinction: It's what allowed World of Warcraft to be sold here for a good 5 years without being rated. The same reason that the Hot Coffee dispute mattered in Australia, too; the content was on the disk. Accessible or not, it was still there. They wouldn't be able to sell a copy of Left 4 Dead 2 which does not conform to the rating given; it would be a criminal offense to do so.

...and that's why IP-based detection would never possibly work. I suggest you either ask your friend for clarification, and then ask him where he heard what he did, or tell him he's been lied to.

Yeah, fair enough. I said to him at the time that it was a ridiculous concept but he was adamant that it was true so either he was wrong or I've relayed what he said to me wrong, which is a strong possibility considering the time. I'm hoping your right over him because that means I will be able to play the game the way the devs wanted me to with oodles of gore intact.

 

[benylor]

*grins and shakes his head*
*coffee slides into hand*
*takes sip*
*violently spits it out*

FUCK

I can't say I am surprised. Everybody knows about Atkinson's dictatorial, Victorian attitude to video gaming. His arguments are completel devoid of logic, but that doesn't matter as the only idiot he needs to convince is himself, as video gamers are not taken very seriously by the general political process usually.

Now, provided all the changes are client-side, I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be a workaround to this. There will be a mod which patches the original gore and cut content back into the Ozzie and, presumedly, the German versions of the game. The best thing to do now would be to have the world's huge 18+ gamer community continue petitioning, keep our arguments coldly logical, and somebody needs to get a gore patch out as soon as humanly possible. Preferably, heh, before the game is even fully out

I wish I had learned how to code these things now. I would love to be the guy who shows Atkinson the wonders of the free internet and the modding community myself, but I'm sure there's somebody qualified to do this.

Australia, my sympathies.

 

[Fenixius]

Valve, in its wisdom, also submitted an edited version of the game that cut much of the violence and bloodshed; that version was approved but remained a "backup plan," according to Valve boss Gabe Newell, to be employed only if the appeal of the original decision failed.

I'm not so sure if that was a wise move, personally. I saw someone else (I think it was another Escapist writer, but who knows? It's 1am, so I surely don't!) point out the possibility that Valve/EA gave too good an 'out' to the Classification Board.

The Board accepts the watered-down, pre-censored version of the game. This way, they don't look like too bad sticklers, and the game gets passed. The Board wins, because they turned away the inappropriately high-level content, and accepted more reasonable fare. Electronic Arts, the regional distributor for Australia, they win too, because they get a game to put on the shelves.

...we, the gamers, lose. We get an inferior version of the game, and have to put up with it without -any- recourse or alternative except illegal importing. We lost, and we have noone in our corner to fight for us. I wish the GDAA [http://www.gdaa.com.au/] would get their act together and represent us, or some other consumer advocasy group would cry bloody murder at this outrage.

 

[benylor]

Valve, in its wisdom, also submitted an edited version of the game that cut much of the violence and bloodshed; that version was approved but remained a "backup plan," according to Valve boss Gabe Newell, to be employed only if the appeal of the original decision failed.

I'm not so sure if that was a wise move, personally. I saw someone else (I think it was another Escapist writer, but who knows? It's 1am, so I surely don't!) point out the possibility that Valve/EA gave too good an 'out' to the Classification Board.

The Board accepts the watered-down, pre-censored version of the game. This way, they don't look like too bad sticklers, and the game gets passed. The Board wins, because they turned away the inappropriately high-level content, and accepted more reasonable fare. Electronic Arts, the regional distributor for Australia, they win too, because they get a game to put on the shelves.

...we, the gamers, lose. We get an inferior version of the game, and have to put up with it without -any- recourse or alternative except illegal importing. We lost, and we have noone in our corner to fight for us. I wish the GDAA [http://www.gdaa.com.au/] would get their act together and represent us, or some other consumer advocasy group would cry bloody murder at this outrage.

I made a post to this effect a little while ago, analysing the list of possible outcomes for Australia. I could find it but it's long and not all that important, but I made the point of saying that a gimped version of L4D2 which goes unchallenged is possibly the absolute worst case scenario for Australian gamers. It legitimises and enboldens Atkinson's absurd philosophy.

 

[Fenixius]

Damn you Aussie get screwed all the time

does this count for New Zealand?

New Zealand have their own Office of Film and Literature Classification [http://www.censorship.govt.nz/], at the much more sensible website, http://www.censorship.govt.nz/

I have no idea what they've rated the game, but no, the Australian Classification Board does not operate for both countries.

...once again, Australia and New Zealand are NOT the same country, with their own governments, and censorship laws and boards.

...New Zealand also has more sheep, or so I'm frequently told.

 

[Fenixius]

I made a post to this effect a little while ago, analysing the list of possible outcomes for Australia. I could find it but it's long and not all that important, but I made the point of saying that a gimped version of L4D2 which goes unchallenged is possibly the absolute worst case scenario for Australian gamers. It legitimises and enboldens Atkinson's absurd philosophy.

Maybe it was you! Sounds similar. But you're right - it's a win for Atkinson, too, because he feels empowered that the Classification Board is doing an A-Ok job, fighting the tide of inappropriately intense media.

 

[undeadfly]

It does not matter in the slightest. People will get their violence on either way. The Australian government people just decided they dont want to make money off that particular game.

Thats ok, there is still ebay and the 47 other ways to get the uncut game to those poor aussys.

 

[The Kangaroo]

Their argument is completely groundless, they let in Prototype (horrible mutilation of humans) and Madworld (even worse mutilation to humans) but they won't let in L4D2 (mutilation of zombies) God! I hate those people!

 

[benylor]

I'll drag out my old post anyway, just for reference.

Note: It's long.

Spoiler: Click here now to claim your FREE OPINION!

People:

In the short term, this compromise is a good thing, yes, but it still caves in to these backwards, wrongheaded censors!

This is not a win at all. The game could still have to be changed, and we don't know the extent of these changes yet. Do not celebrate until the game is released.

Now, the win conditions are:
1. L4D2 comes out completely unmolested.
2. L4D2 does not come out at all because there is no compromise that can be reached, which results in the debate being opened up (remember, Michael Atkinson has banned discussion of an 18+ rating for games - you can't even talk about getting it implemented!). This results in Atkinson being widely recognised as full of shit from outside the gamer community, and his status repealed. This will likely have the same effect as 1. - an 18+ rating implemented or more games available under 15+ (less ideal).

Sort of win:
3. L4D2 is edited slightly. Australia still gets its game, and its gameplay is untouched.
4. L4D2 is castrated by the changes, and large amounts of gamers simply import or install mods which turn the game back into its intended, ultraviolent version.

Fail:
5. L4D2 is castrated and people lamely accept it - there is no real effort to mod or import to get around the censor. Or, doing so is illegal or impossible.
6. L4D2 is cancelled for Australia.

Epic fail:
7. L4D2 is cancelled for Australia, and Atkinson succeeds in turning it into fuel for the moral panic he is swept up in which ensures that the country becomes even more strict in its censorship.
8. L4D2 gets through in Australia being castrated, and Atkinson sees this as vindication and evidence that game devs will tone down the violence if he demands it. With obvious consequences.

--

It could still be any of these paths. Don't celebrate until you see what happens.

The scenario we are faced with is either 4, 5 or 8. The only one that we have any control over is making option 4 happen, and that requires an internet campaign to make Australian gamers aware of alternatives to the censor, as well as Atkinson aware of the numbers of gamers taking this route.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

"The computer game contains a level of violence which is high in impact, prolonged, repeated frequently and realistic within the context of the game," the panel wrote in its decision [http://oflc.gov.au/www/cob/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(3273BD3F76A7A5DEDAE36942A54D7D90)~Mediarelease-Left4Dead2-22October2009.pdf/$file/Mediarelease-Left4Dead2-22October2009.pdf]. "In addition, it was the Review Board's opinion that there was insufficient delineation between the depiction of general zombie figures and the human figures, as opposed to the clearly fictional 'infected' characters. This was a major consideration of the Review Board in determining the impact of this game on minors."

It's a little patronising to imply that people 15+ aren't capable of distinguishing between reality and fiction, and more than that distinguishing between a zombie and a living human.

The latter will be especially important when the zombie apocalypse comes. We have to start training them young lest they mistakenly believe they can kill zombies with common medical supplies. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReviveKillsZombie]

 

[Synek]

Can`t it be classified as educational game and be shipped with zombie survival guide?
Think of the children! Now they can survive a zombie apocalypse too!

 

[Gunner 51]

But on a serious note, surely messing with the game and generally watering it down makes a bit of a mockery of the devs who made the game. They wanted the gamer to revel in the carnage they created and for the Censorship board to mess that up is rather mean to the devs for messing up their artistic vision and to the mature gamers who want to play it.

If the developers did not want to release a watered-down version of the game, then they actually didn't have to. Unless Valve faced pressure from their partner for distribution in this region, Electronic Arts, they needn't have resubmitted anything. But they wanted to. And I thank them sincerely for that. It's not their fault that my country is being held up by a man who misunderstands the roles of parents and governments.

I say petition your censorship boards for change and keep the pressure on them to change.

As I mentioned before, in order to change these laws, the Attourney General (appointed in every state individually, possibly in the territories too, but I'm unsure) from each state must agree. The Standing Council of Attourneys General must unanimously agree to alter the guidelines for classification. Mr Atkinson is the only dissenter. Please forward all concerns to his email address, or even better, postal address.

Ah, that would account for all that "Damn you Atkinson" stuff I've seen on the Escapist.