Left 4 Dead 2: Why the Boycott Is a Good Thing

[Jumplion]

I still find this L4D2 boycott incredibly stupid.

There's a lot of stuff in L4D2.
There's a new A.I director,update
3 new special infected maybe update, what are the new infected? Remakes of the original ones?,
some witches will walk around the map Wow, walking! Update,
Tons of new maps depends on how many, but I'll give you that,
The A.I director will change the landscape and weather of the level according to how you've been playing, and that can't be an update....why?
a brand new game mode update,
superior zombie dismemberment how can that not be an update? A new game for more detailed dismemberment? C'mon man! That's practically EA of them!
4 new survivors eh, reskins, doesn't matter too much
and Melee weapons that could be an update, though I'm this and that for some reason

Alot of that stuff could just be updated to the original, though I'm pretty sure if VALVe made this a simple expansion pack (Like "Left 4 Dead, Back 4 More!" or something) than the whole community would be eating it up with much more gusto.

You've got to admit though, over 9,000 30,000 people angry at VALVe, one of the most prestigeous game companies in the world, isn't anything to scoff at.

 

[skwareballz]

Anyone who thinks thta Valve didn't think about the backlash before anouncing this game is so fucking retarded that they don't deserve to play it anyway. They'll probably sell like 3 million units of L4D1 on the xbox platform alone, so Valve might end up just using the game to make money to develope other titles that they probably don't have money for right now like EP3 and Portal 2.

 

[PSNFeisar]

Valve is such an interesting company for me to follow since I've loved so many of their games - yet I still dislike the company itself quite a bit.

I loved Half life 2, Counterstrike Source and LFD.

But I remember buying HL2 at launch and it not activating properly - - terrible fanboy service there!
I remember the game needing to be patched shortly afterward because it was stuttering on high-end machines...
I remember for an entire YEAR the friends application of steam just didn't work for me or my friends - needed to use a 3rd party app to play with friends on Counterstrike.... kind of a joke.
And I think Gabe Newell is a quite a ...loser ...for his PS3 comments about it being 'too hard' to develop for. If every machine out there was supposed to have PC type architecture to make it easy for ol' Gabe, what's the point of multiple platforms in the first place? I equate his comments to whining ... because that's what he's doing.. whining.

It's funny how LFD's add-on content is held back for Xbox live limitations, because no such limitations exist on Sony's console for downloadable content. ZING GABE!

 

[thom_cat_]

Dynamic weather. Big. Current maps are not designed for weather of any sort. Go through the developers commentary and you'll hear the effort they went to to get the lighting just right. Dynamic weather means that first of all the game has to be able to differentiate between inside and outside.. right now I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because there's no need to do so.. outside is just a bigger inside with a prettier roof. Now, make that weather changeable? That's a significant change not only to the architecture, but to the balance, and to every current map. Probably outside the realm of DLC.

Sorry to rain on your parade here... but it uses "func_precipitaton" brushes to distinguish between where to add rain and where not to... the only thing that changes is the ability to turn them on and off, and maybe some of the water particle effects and thunder sounds.
So no... still update worthy.

And to all of those who are talking about tf2's great support- I assume you're refering to the PC support, cause so far theres been NOTHING for xbox gamers.

Exactly how it should be

 

[The Bandit]

I think people have a problem with comprehending the fact that video game developing IS a business. It's even harder with a developer like Valve, because, well, they're sort of nice.

Valve is such an interesting company for me to follow since I've loved so many of their games - yet I still dislike the company itself quite a bit.

I loved Half life 2, Counterstrike Source and LFD.

But I remember buying HL2 at launch and it not activating properly - - terrible fanboy service there!
I remember the game needing to be patched shortly afterward because it was stuttering on high-end machines...
I remember for an entire YEAR the friends application of steam just didn't work for me or my friends - needed to use a 3rd party app to play with friends on Counterstrike.... kind of a joke.
And I think Gabe Newell is a quite a ...loser ...for his PS3 comments about it being 'too hard' to develop for. If every machine out there was supposed to have PC type architecture to make it easy for ol' Gabe, what's the point of multiple platforms in the first place? I equate his comments to whining ... because that's what he's doing.. whining.

It's funny how LFD's add-on content is held back for Xbox live limitations, because no such limitations exist on Sony's console for downloadable content. ZING GABE!

Take you for instance. You're obviously a fan for the PS3, for whatever reason. That's fine. That's not why I'm quoting you. I'm quoting you because your comment lends to the belief that Valve has some sort of duty to develop for the PS3. As a business, Valve chooses what systems to make their games for based on the work/profit margin. If they feel that the work isn't worth the potential profit, why bother? Is his reasoning whining? Maybe so. But, I'm fairly certain of this: he didn't make that comment to bash the PS3. He made the comment because he was asked, whether by the journalist, his wife, or tons of PS3 owners who were pissed at the shitty version of The Orange Box. He was simply expressing his reasoning because someone was curious. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. They don't HAVE to develop on the PS3, and as of right now, they aren't going to. I don't see anything evil in that and I'm not sure why most people do. They're in THIS particular business because they love it, but they're in business in general to make a profit.

On a similar note, I think the worst thing Valve could've done was release the TF2 updates for free. Partly because I'm a bitter XBox owner who has yet to experience them, and partly because whenever you give someone something for free, they get the illusion that they deserve it. Take the Halo maps Bungie released. Every map pack for Halo 2 was, eventually, released for free. Now tons of fans are pissed because Bungie has said that the likelihood of Legendary and Mythic maps being released for free is slim. Those Halo players don't have some claim on the map packs. They don't deserve them. Yet, because Bungie previously released them for free, they think they do. It fits here. Valve fans are furious that the company they love, who release TF2 updates for free, who released 5 games for the price of one, have made a move that can easily be seen as profit motivated. For some reason they think, they really do believe, that they deserve all the content of L4D2, a game that packs the content of a new release whether you wish to admit it or not, for free or a reduced price. Why? Simply because they've been babied and coddled in the past.

 

[Brett Alex]

Stuff about L4D2 only needing to be an update

Jumplion, meet Kwil. He'll answer your concerns in an intelligent manner.

You don't get it. Core engine changes. TF2's new weapons are fairly minor, with the most complex so far being the huntsman because it involves sticking corpses to the wall and being able to light the arrows on fire. Combining weapons like that is new, and interesting, but also pretty simple as it tends to revolve around a single "if-then" line.

So let's go through some of the changes they've announced:
New maps. Meh. Whether 2 or 20, could have been done through DLC.
New models. Same. DLC fodder.
New weapons. Okay, some minor amount of coding here, but still DLC worthy.
Melee weapons. Well, this is a little bit more significant, but mostly adjusting the range and ammo of current weapons could handle it as a cheap hack. Still DLC.
New infected. Depending on abilities, probably DLC fodder. From what we've seen, there's nothing hugely new in the new infected we've seen so far. However, a particularly "intelligent" type of infected may be beyond the realm of DLC, if they have any, but nothing announced so far sounds like it.

Director choosing which infected to spawn based on team tactics/performance. Okay. This is new. L4D had the director choosing based on a timer and general location. Play through a few times and you come to realize that. Having the director being able to look at your team and determine from the tactics your using what type of infected might be best? That's a fairly signifcant upgrade. That implies the director is able to recognize certain tactics and figure out how to respond. Possible DLC but probably beyond what you'd get there as it's changing core architecture. (position/time placement to analysis-react placement)

Dynamic weather. Big. Current maps are not designed for weather of any sort. Go through the developers commentary and you'll hear the effort they went to to get the lighting just right. Dynamic weather means that first of all the game has to be able to differentiate between inside and outside.. right now I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because there's no need to do so.. outside is just a bigger inside with a prettier roof. Now, make that weather changeable? That's a significant change not only to the architecture, but to the balance, and to every current map. Probably outside the realm of DLC.

Director adjusting weather based on performance. Back to the Director choosing which infected to spawn. Analysis of team performance. Probably less difficult than choosing the infected to be honest, but still a significant add on to the AI of the game.

Director adjusting maps. Say what? That is.. huge. Take a look at some of the custom map jobs available for TF2.. it's not easy for humans to create decently balanced maps. For the director to be able to do so on the fly, and balanced toward your performance? That's massive. That means adjusting some core code of the game. And it takes maps designed with areas that can be modded by the AI director. Well past the realm of DLC.

In comparison, the biggest change to TF2 was payload mode, with a moving control point. It rather pales in comparison to the scope of the changes they're making to the Director for L4D2

 

[Jumplion]

Stuff about L4D2 only needing to be an update

Jumplion, meet Kwil. He'll answer your concerns in an intelligent manner.

Condense

Yeah, I read it, and some of his points are valid, however some things are off for me.

The first 5 things I feel are mainly all update or DLC as expansion worthy. New weapons and maps I'm iffy about, but models are no big deal and depending on the infected I don't think a suicide-boomer is enough of a difference.

I don't get how a simple upgrade to the AI director can't be implemented in the original, can't you just modify the original and upgrade that? I'll give him the based on tactics thing, but unless it's well shown I don't think it's quite enough to warrant an entire sequel, and it seems odd that you have to buy a game for an upgraded version of an AI director.

For dynamic weather, really? Dynamic weather is nothing new, is it really that hard to make it rain, foggy, or snow in Louisiana by a simple update? What, does the mud from the rain make you slip and slide and trip over everywhere? Unless the weather actually has an effect on the game, instead of being scenery, why can't that be an update?

Director adjusting weather according to team, that falls under paragraph 3 of this post. I still find it odd that you have to pay full price (I assume) for an updated AI director that should easily be updatable. That's what tons of companies do with their programs and such, they do little updates to their programs!

On the changing maps thing, it depends on how much it can change at once. Does it completely change your course every time you go on it? Or does it just switch areas that you can go into, like previously you could go into lot A but now you have to go into lot B and it goes back and forth? If it's the former, I'll give him that, but if it's the latter, then so what?

Now, I will say that I don't really expect this to be free, and I think it has more than enough content to warrant at least some money to be spent, but a full priced sequel doesn't seem warranted for upgrades behind the lot that you will never see and probably not see a difference in.

 

[Brett Alex]

Stuff about L4D2 only needing to be an update

Jumplion, meet Kwil. He'll answer your concerns in an intelligent manner.

Condense

Double Condense

I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

 

[Jumplion]

I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Nope, I do not own, nor have I ever played Left 4 Dead the original. I suppose that does invalidate a lot of what I have said over this issue, but I think that if an "outsider" can criticize VALVe and still have some valid points (which I believe I do) then something's a little iffy here.

 

[Brett Alex]

I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Nope, I do not own, nor have I ever played Left 4 Dead the original. I suppose that does invalidate a lot of what I have said over this issue, but I think that if an "outsider" can criticize VALVe and still have some valid points (which I believe I do) then something's a little iffy here.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is shit because my friend told me that like, you don't have to use stealth at all and its too easy because instead of sneaking you can just shoot everyone in the head. Thats why it sucks. Hideo Kojimas new so-called 'sequel' should just be DLC.

 

[Jumplion]

I haven't acquainted myself with the specifics of the sequel enough to respond to any of that with an informed opinion, but am I right in assuming you don't own/have not played the first L4D very much?

EDIT: Though it might look like it, I'm not trying to ignore your counter-arguments by asking an irrelevant question, I'm just leaving responses to Kwil or someone else who actually knows what they're talking about.

Nope, I do not own, nor have I ever played Left 4 Dead the original. I suppose that does invalidate a lot of what I have said over this issue, but I think that if an "outsider" can criticize VALVe and still have some valid points (which I believe I do) then something's a little iffy here.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is shit because my friend told me that like, you don't have to use stealth at all and its too easy because instead of sneaking you can just shoot everyone in the head. Thats why it sucks. Hideo Kojimas new so-called 'sequel' should just be DLC.

The MGS:Rising sequel? Well, as far as I know it has Raiden in it and.........well, that's it. Something about "Lightning Bolt Action" or whatever. If we knew a bit more about it, then I guess he could criticiz-OHHHHOHHOH!!! You sneaky little bugger! That's near exactly what the boycotts are doing!! Ho ho ho!

Though if you do look up at the groups STEAM page you would see that they're a bit more knowledgeable than that and at least want something good to come out of it instead of "DON'T RELEASE L4D2" or whatever.

Though back on the Rising thing, it wholy depends on what the game has, though i'd be a bit hard for the 360 to have the DLC of Rising if they didn't have MGS4...

 

[Brett Alex]

Though back on the Rising thing, it wholy depends on what the game has, though i'd be a bit hard for the 360 to have the DLC of Rising if they didn't have MGS4...

Yeah, just glad you can see both sides of the argument.

Personally I hope Rising is somewhat similar to the Ninja VR missions in MGS2, but with a proper story, environment and new, more action-oriented control scheme.

 

[FROGGEman2]

I just wish Valve would direct it's attention to the series that brought it so much fame in the first place. Give me either Half-life 2 episode 3 or Half-Life 3 before Left 4 Dead 2.

They have different groups that work on different things.

 

[junkmanuk]

My *opinions* on this whole debarcle:

- Out of the 30,000 people in the boycott group I estimate about 80% just joined through bandwagonism without any real reason or motive.

- Out of the remaining boycotters, the only people I give any credance to are content developers*

- If you're serious about the boycott, stand up and talk in front of your own name. Being referred to as 'Mr Pancakes' just makes your whole campaign look frivolous. If you're not brave enough to do that, you shouldn't be an admin for the group.

- Claiming new models, maps, AI are just updates is silly. Every sequel of every game has new models, maps and AI - do you want to get them free too? How about the Fifa football games, or Pro Evolution Soccer? Are there boycotting groups against these games?

- In response to the PS3 development comments: Creating a new development team would draw resources away from other areas. I believe valve made the right decision to drop support for the PS3 instead of taking financial and reputation damage by continuing to release sub-par content for it.

*The only criticism I have towards valve right now is that you STILL can't host modded content on dedicated servers for download. The modders are the people I feel the pain for. They've spent months hacking away at hammer using workarounds until the SDK was released and now all their work looks as though it may have a very short lifespan. True it will most likely be portable but there's no guarantees of that.

 

[Vrex360]

I kinda saw the boycott coming anyway to be quite honest.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Then don't ship it as a friggin DLC valve, EXPANSION PACK. STORE!

The problem here is Valve wubs their steam wubbims too much and can't fathom just releasing the updates as a pack through a brick and mortar store..brgging friggn mrhgl..grumble..

And lets say that L4D2 IS too big to just...update the original. Why did they make it so soon!? They shipped l4D and then IMMEDIATLY started on l4d2, they've admitted this. Why cram everything in there? I know you think your making your dream project boys, but you made some campaign promsies that we're looking to COLLECT ON. So where's my goddamned digital 40 acres and a mule.

PS: I stand up for the Boycott, my name is Andrew James Schiffbauer. I live SOMETHERE in South Carolina where I bag groceries as a part time job to help pay the bills while the tv stations all cut jobs.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Great article. I just don't understand why they couldn't put the stuff in Left4dead2 into an expansion pack.
The only thing it adds is new ugly survivors skins, a few new maps, and one new playable infected. The new weapons are at best just reskins.

Eh? It has more maps than the original, 3 new infected, and a freaking chainsaw. A chainsaw is a reskin?

I was merely pointing out that what their adding doesn't isn't really need an entirely new game, they could just make a 30 dollar expansion and everyone would be happy. I just miss the good old days of expansions. Makes me cry a little.

No you weren't because you got it all wrong. There are several types of melee weapons, incendiary ammo, different survivors, a whole new campaign and 3 new infected types. That is more content than the original Left 4 Dead, so why is it that this is not enough to justify a game whereas the first one had enough content? Besides if they added the new survivors it wouldn't be Left 4 Dead.

 

[Digikid]

Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

 

[Abedeus]

Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

You don't understand online games, don't talk.

Releasing new ONLINE ONLINE ONLINE (I had to type it 3 times, otherwise people won't see it again) every year is different from new FIFA or PES. When a game is in 95% ONLINE and MULTIPLAYER, you MUST buy the new sequel, because:

1. Fanboys will buy it for 110%.
2. Friends of fanboys will buy it, because they want to play with them.
3. Other people also must buy it, because they will be left behind.

Why do I have the suspicion that their L4D1 support will be like HL2 support, that is - new game/content MAYBE after 2-3 years?