Left 4 Dead 2: Why the Boycott Is a Good Thing
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
^^WinTheissen said:
I think the majority of the people boycoting are people who won' have the money to buy L4D2(Kids, under 15yrs old), people who want to be part of something big( sad lonely mmorpg players who think L4D is the biggest first person shooter ever), or they are the small minority who actually want Valve to keep a promise about supporting the game, when the new one is good enough for everyone else.
(I think the last group is partly people who were spoiled as a child
Are you kidding.. If they released good tools to make the L4D campaigns the community would have added hundreds of campaigns overnight.WrongSprite said:
If they release the SDK before L4D2 dont be surprised to see all the features of L4D2 out beforehand for L4D1.
4 campaigns is hardly a complete game, 5 will be worse. If it wasnt for the excellent solid gameplay valve provides for its games I would have really regretted buying it.
6 guns and about 4 hours to see all the content. If any other game offered that it would get a severe blasting by the community and the gaming media.
Valve is one of the better companies out there, and has really given me a lot of entertainment for my dollar. They listen to the community and do their best to patch problems quickly, as well as provide new content. The charge that they haven't supported L4D is ridiculous, they've put out patch after patch, new maps, a new survival mode, and so on.
I don't mind supporting companies this good with another game purchase. There's dozens of companies out there that won't even patch their initial releases!
The boycott strikes me as a bunch of folks jumping up and down, stamping their feet, and hoping to get something for nothing.
I don't mind supporting companies this good with another game purchase. There's dozens of companies out there that won't even patch their initial releases!
The boycott strikes me as a bunch of folks jumping up and down, stamping their feet, and hoping to get something for nothing.
What really pisses me off is that all these boycotting tards make the same reference, TF2. "Oh, but TF2 gets all this content!" Really? REALLY? Let's compare shall we. (I will NOT be counting the making fan maps official, that is not thier work.)
Goldrush: 1 new map, 3 new items.
Pyro Update: 3 new items.
Heavy Update: 1 new map, 3 new items, Arena mode w/ 2 arena maps, tweaked 3 maps for arena
Scout Update: 3 new items.
Spy/Sniper Update: 1 new map, 6 new items, 2 new arena maps
Total: 3 normal maps, 18 items, 4 arena maps.
Now, this sounds like a lot for the average person. Except that items are by far the easiest to add, as they are a single model with moving parts and just coming up with a working idea that will be balanced. Go ahead now, compare that to the list of how much stuff L4D2 is getting. The number of campaigns already outnumbers the new TF2 maps. And then you'll realize that a campaign is a set of 5 maps.
L4D2: 25 new maps, 3 new SI classes, all weapons retooled for balance, new items (new unreleased grenade + incendiary ammo). And let's not forget the biggest changes, huge revamp to AID to control the actual layout of the levels, wandering witch placement, versus SI spawn queue(best addition IMO), and all the minor less important stuff like melee items and infected deformation.
The people in the boycott can suck an egg for all I care, I'll be happy to not have to play against such a huge group of ignorant whiners. Plus, I'm pretty sure some of them are just hopping on the bandwagon because the game will be an actual challenge again, instead of constant map exploiting. (DA3 Pipe campers, I'M LOOKING AT YOU.)
[edit] Forgot to mention, look at the frequency of updates for TF2 as well. Only 5 content patches in 2 years. Been 2 so far for L4D and not even been a year. With a 3rd supposed to be coming before L4D2 comes out. Further proof that Valve has supported the game.
Goldrush: 1 new map, 3 new items.
Pyro Update: 3 new items.
Heavy Update: 1 new map, 3 new items, Arena mode w/ 2 arena maps, tweaked 3 maps for arena
Scout Update: 3 new items.
Spy/Sniper Update: 1 new map, 6 new items, 2 new arena maps
Total: 3 normal maps, 18 items, 4 arena maps.
Now, this sounds like a lot for the average person. Except that items are by far the easiest to add, as they are a single model with moving parts and just coming up with a working idea that will be balanced. Go ahead now, compare that to the list of how much stuff L4D2 is getting. The number of campaigns already outnumbers the new TF2 maps. And then you'll realize that a campaign is a set of 5 maps.
L4D2: 25 new maps, 3 new SI classes, all weapons retooled for balance, new items (new unreleased grenade + incendiary ammo). And let's not forget the biggest changes, huge revamp to AID to control the actual layout of the levels, wandering witch placement, versus SI spawn queue(best addition IMO), and all the minor less important stuff like melee items and infected deformation.
The people in the boycott can suck an egg for all I care, I'll be happy to not have to play against such a huge group of ignorant whiners. Plus, I'm pretty sure some of them are just hopping on the bandwagon because the game will be an actual challenge again, instead of constant map exploiting. (DA3 Pipe campers, I'M LOOKING AT YOU.)
[edit] Forgot to mention, look at the frequency of updates for TF2 as well. Only 5 content patches in 2 years. Been 2 so far for L4D and not even been a year. With a 3rd supposed to be coming before L4D2 comes out. Further proof that Valve has supported the game.
I can see this being a hit anyway one thing i can say they developers dont care what the boycott group think they care what they think.They are probably making fun of it now.WrongSprite said:
Your article is self-contradictory. You offer more reasons why the boycott is a bad thing than a good thing. You point out that the boycotters are full of hyperbole and that hurts their case. And in your closer, you point out you didn't even buy the first Left 4 Dead so you're not even in the customer base that's supposedly offended.
This is the first op-ed I've seen that criticized a game company for re-using the same engine over and over, which is a fair criticism. Back in the 1990s, companies such as Sierra and SSI would use the same code to make "new" games, which they cranked out on a regular basis. Strangely, though, back then people actually enjoyed having new games to play ... and if they didn't want to play them, they simply didn't buy them.
The boycott is doomed to failure, by simple economics. If making Left 4 Dead 1 required 100% of the development resources, Left 4 Dead 2 will require less than 100%, or 100%-X. For the boycott to work, the expected X percent will have to be greater than the resources saved by recycled work. It won't. The boycott is largely meaningless because they only thing that will matter is sales, and if L4D2 has even just 80% of the sales of L4D1, it will be a resounding success.
If forum trollers really made a difference in marketing, Snakes on a Plane would've had a lot more revenue. Many folks who are throwing in with the boycott will swallow their pride and buy L4D2 anyway. (Wait, forum trollers have pride?)
Sigh, remember the days when John Romero was mocked for having his game take four years of development time? It used to be that gamers expected a franchise to spit out a new game every 14 months or so. How things have changed that folks feel necessary to boycott new content.
Speaking of remembering things, does anyone remember Half Life: Opposing Force? It had its own death-match option, incompatible with Half Life's. It was made by a different development team and was largely considered to be an inferior cash-in, unworthy of Valve's commitment to quality. Sound familiar? How much did that hurt HL's legacy? Not one iota.
Really, the L4D2 boycott is one of the worst things to happen to gaming. It's a message to developers that says they should inflate their development cycles to make games take longer and come out slower. It makes gamers sound like whiny elitists who want their "fun" strictly managed and parceled out in small bites made more palatable by two or three years' worth of screen-shots and puff-piece magazine articles -- you know, the fecund enviroment that let 3D Realms take 10 years to make the lame Prey, and to take 12 years to ... er, make nothing. It's a message that Valve could've done the same amount of work on L4D2 that they're doing now, but just postponed delivering it for three years, because apparently gamers want less things, less often.
No wonder video games have become conservative, bloated affairs ... biting off more than they can chew as they try to cram in sixty hours of game play to justify their $80 price tags. Apparently, it's because making smaller games with faster production gets a publicity backlash. The boycotters are in the same camp as folks who complain that folks who want to play a game for just 15 minutes are "casual gamers" who are "ruining the industry". Think it's too soon? Fine, don't buy it. But exhorting others to have less fun because it makes you sad? What kind of gamer does that?
This is the first op-ed I've seen that criticized a game company for re-using the same engine over and over, which is a fair criticism. Back in the 1990s, companies such as Sierra and SSI would use the same code to make "new" games, which they cranked out on a regular basis. Strangely, though, back then people actually enjoyed having new games to play ... and if they didn't want to play them, they simply didn't buy them.
The boycott is doomed to failure, by simple economics. If making Left 4 Dead 1 required 100% of the development resources, Left 4 Dead 2 will require less than 100%, or 100%-X. For the boycott to work, the expected X percent will have to be greater than the resources saved by recycled work. It won't. The boycott is largely meaningless because they only thing that will matter is sales, and if L4D2 has even just 80% of the sales of L4D1, it will be a resounding success.
If forum trollers really made a difference in marketing, Snakes on a Plane would've had a lot more revenue. Many folks who are throwing in with the boycott will swallow their pride and buy L4D2 anyway. (Wait, forum trollers have pride?)
Sigh, remember the days when John Romero was mocked for having his game take four years of development time? It used to be that gamers expected a franchise to spit out a new game every 14 months or so. How things have changed that folks feel necessary to boycott new content.
Speaking of remembering things, does anyone remember Half Life: Opposing Force? It had its own death-match option, incompatible with Half Life's. It was made by a different development team and was largely considered to be an inferior cash-in, unworthy of Valve's commitment to quality. Sound familiar? How much did that hurt HL's legacy? Not one iota.
Really, the L4D2 boycott is one of the worst things to happen to gaming. It's a message to developers that says they should inflate their development cycles to make games take longer and come out slower. It makes gamers sound like whiny elitists who want their "fun" strictly managed and parceled out in small bites made more palatable by two or three years' worth of screen-shots and puff-piece magazine articles -- you know, the fecund enviroment that let 3D Realms take 10 years to make the lame Prey, and to take 12 years to ... er, make nothing. It's a message that Valve could've done the same amount of work on L4D2 that they're doing now, but just postponed delivering it for three years, because apparently gamers want less things, less often.
No wonder video games have become conservative, bloated affairs ... biting off more than they can chew as they try to cram in sixty hours of game play to justify their $80 price tags. Apparently, it's because making smaller games with faster production gets a publicity backlash. The boycotters are in the same camp as folks who complain that folks who want to play a game for just 15 minutes are "casual gamers" who are "ruining the industry". Think it's too soon? Fine, don't buy it. But exhorting others to have less fun because it makes you sad? What kind of gamer does that?
No, they're adding a lot more: as you can read in the article, more detailed zombie destruction (no more heads dissapearing in a red cloud, yay!), melee weapons, the AI Director will get a make-over wich is coupled together with more dynamic maps (more free to pick your own route, and the AI Director acts accordingly). All those things, and probably more (the fact that there will be more story, hopefully in a proper way, and not just a few new maps but a shitload of em) are more than just a DLC. Definatly expansion worthy, they're fleshing out the whole L4D concept with this sequel.bue519 said:
I love Valve, I think at this point in time they're the best developers in the world, and I own ALL their games.
However, what I don't get is how it's an irony to be upset over a new game too soon when the developers have a long history of supporting each of their games for a long time and perfecting them. You know, even if NOTHING new was added to L4D2 from its current state, I would still rather see it announced next year. This is just way too soon, it feels like L4D has been abandoned before it even got started. That might be alright for console gamers whose games never receive any major updates or patches, but PC gamers expect better. I'm really not convinced that what they're proposing for L4D2 can't be patched into L4D.
That and the truth is this whole mess is over contracts and legal issues about who can do what with the original game, and it's preventing Valve from making the updates they want. The real crime here is that instead of just resolving these issues they're just going to start over.
However, what I don't get is how it's an irony to be upset over a new game too soon when the developers have a long history of supporting each of their games for a long time and perfecting them. You know, even if NOTHING new was added to L4D2 from its current state, I would still rather see it announced next year. This is just way too soon, it feels like L4D has been abandoned before it even got started. That might be alright for console gamers whose games never receive any major updates or patches, but PC gamers expect better. I'm really not convinced that what they're proposing for L4D2 can't be patched into L4D.
That and the truth is this whole mess is over contracts and legal issues about who can do what with the original game, and it's preventing Valve from making the updates they want. The real crime here is that instead of just resolving these issues they're just going to start over.
I think that the new content justifies a new game. Looking at all of the content you may say that some of the stuff is DLC worthy, but I only think it's DLC worthy if it was just some parts of the update. I could understand DLC with a new campaign and new weapons, but five new campaigns (all playable in versus and survival), new game mode, new infected (common and special), and a major overhaul to the AI Director sounds like plenty enough content to justify a new game.
Plus, valve said they'll still support the original L4D. Also, I find it a bit dumb that people bought L4D not for what was actually in the game, but for what they thought would be added in free updates. You buy a game for the game in the box. All of the updates are just a nice little bonus.
Plus, valve said they'll still support the original L4D. Also, I find it a bit dumb that people bought L4D not for what was actually in the game, but for what they thought would be added in free updates. You buy a game for the game in the box. All of the updates are just a nice little bonus.
Won't be getting this. It's good to see that people still stand up, protest and not take all this hype bullshit from the gaming media, even if this protest is mildly retarded to say the least.
Anyone who was big on the MMORPG scene will find nothing new with this. Kids don't want to fork over the doe and get surprised that video game companies are ultimately out to make money. Go ask the WoW or Everquest protesters how "boycotting" the 10 trillionth expansion worked out for them....oh yeah they're too busy playing the game to tell you.
This thread alone says it all. There are people here not reading the thread before spouting (not as many as other threads, true.)
Before you boycott L4D2 you should be forced to take and pass a class in software engineering.
Boycotters = Twilighting Narutards with guns. Fucking childish monkeys who should all have witches shoved up their asses. Hey Valve, this sounds like a DLC idea for L4D2, a mini-game of sorts.
Just to flip off the boycotting 'tards I'm buying a copy of L4D2 and I don't own an XBOX of any sort. I'll give the copy I buy to one of my friends who has a 360.
30,000 doesn't equal a boycott. It just proves idiocy is contagious.
Before you boycott L4D2 you should be forced to take and pass a class in software engineering.
Boycotters = Twilighting Narutards with guns. Fucking childish monkeys who should all have witches shoved up their asses. Hey Valve, this sounds like a DLC idea for L4D2, a mini-game of sorts.
Just to flip off the boycotting 'tards I'm buying a copy of L4D2 and I don't own an XBOX of any sort. I'll give the copy I buy to one of my friends who has a 360.
30,000 doesn't equal a boycott. It just proves idiocy is contagious.